Law School Discussion

Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's
« Reply #280 on: December 21, 2007, 10:02:18 AM »
My story on gunners for the 1L's...




Our school was split up into two overall tracks - the early track (starting at 8am) and the late track (starting at 10).  Needless to say, I was in the late track.   The early track tended to be full of gunners.  The King Gunner, this kid who was related to one of the deans of the law school, had made a reputation for himself by the end of first semester.  In all of his classes, whenever the class was over, instead of rushing to the podium to talk to the professor like most law students do, the cats in his class would actually rush over to him to seek their daily explanations of the substantive law.

What pissed me off about that was that the black students in the early track were some of the main ones seeking knowledge from this kid instead of from their professors.  When we would get together for study groups, they would often start their conversations by saying "Well [King Gunner] said that..."

R U Serious?  I don't care what King Gunner said or didn't say.  Stop asking another law student about the law. You guys are killin me.


So second semester rolls around and they mix the tracks up, so for the first time early trackers mix with late trackers.   Wouldn't you know it, I had Civ Pro with King Gunner.  For the first few weeks I saw this kid espouse about his legal pontifications with authority, however my Civ Pro professor, a Yalie, was the type of professor who knew his stuff down cold and didn't stand for irrelevant comments or grandstanding in his classroom.  Nearly every time King Gunner would raise his hand to speak on something, the professor would have to clean it up at the end with a "I think you meant to say _____."  But even when he would clean up King Gunner's comments, the black students in my class were still of the belief that he was omniscient. (King Gunner that is, not my Civ Pro professor who had practiced the law for 10 years)

This continued throughout the first 2 months.  I made up my mind that this foolishness had to stop.  So I finished whatever LRW paper I was working on at the time a whole week early to get it out of the way, and then I sat down with the Civ Pro E&E , the EZ Rules, my case book, a few law review articles on Civ Pro, and the Civ Pro Flash Cards for a week straight every day, soaking it in.  Monday rolls around.  The topic - Personal Jurisdiction.  I remember that damn thing like yesterday.

So the class gets going.  King Gunner does his usual routine - which is to let the class fumble about for 10-15 minutes in the dark before he chimes in with his intelligent sounding answer and emerges as the truth and the light yet again.  Not this time, folks.  The class has their back and forth about personal jurisdiction...no strong points are made...enter King Gunner stage left with what appeared, for a moment, to be the award winning statement of the day.  Before he concluded I quickly recognized the hole in his argument based on all that I had read, and so I calmly and quietly raised my hand to expose it to the rest of the class.  The Professor calls on me.  "Actually, that's incorrect because...." 

Silence   :o

My professor plays right along and turns it back to King Gunner to defend himself:  "Do you have a rebuttal for [Mr. Sands]?"

King Gunner, not used to being challenged, comes back with a nice attempted save, but its not enough because I specifically read something to the opposite of his second argument.

My professor turns to the right: "[Mr. Sands], can you dispute [Mr. Gunner's] point here?"

"Actually I can because [Mr. Gunner] is confusing this issue with the issue that the Court has consistently emphasized since Shoe.  Personal Jurisdiction must be taken from the perspective of the defendant's 14th amendment right to Due Process, not the plaintiff's as [Mr. Gunner] stated."

Silence.  :o

You could feel the class waiting to see if that was actually correct or if I was just blowing smoke up everybody's ass.  I particularly noticed that the black students in my class who had previously been playing solitare or shopping on e-bay a minute ago were now paying full attention since one of "us" had dared to take on the ever knowing King Gunner, who was, after all, the source of all substantive legal knowledge in their minds up until that point.

My professor doesn't even turn back to King Gunner to get a response.  The Prof just simply says, "that is correct, [Mr. Sands]," and moves on to his next lecture point.

You could see several classmates looking around at each other with eyebrows raised high, eyes wide open, and looks on their faces like "daaaaaaaaamn!"  I looked over and saw King Gunner flipping rapidly through his case book, trying to cook up a rebuttal, but he didn't speak again for the rest of that class, and didn't have too much to say for the rest of the semester either as I recall.





What was most interesting to me about that day are the reactions I got from my fellow students after class ended. From the white students, I got comments like "thank God somebody finally shut that guy up, he was getting on my nerves" which I took to mean that many of them had not been deceived by his intellectual smoke and mirror show.  From the black students, however, I got comments like "son, how the hell did you do that?"  >:( >:( >:(

It was one of the more memorable yet bitter/sweet moments of my law school career.






Re: Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's
« Reply #281 on: December 21, 2007, 10:12:48 AM »
dead.

and SMH at the blk folks....

A.

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Re: Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's
« Reply #282 on: December 21, 2007, 10:26:15 AM »
Lol good story, sands

lalalagirl007

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Re: Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's
« Reply #283 on: December 21, 2007, 11:45:30 AM »
My story on gunners for the 1L's...




Our school was split up into two overall tracks - the early track (starting at 8am) and the late track (starting at 10).  Needless to say, I was in the late track.   The early track tended to be full of gunners.  The King Gunner, this kid who was related to one of the deans of the law school, had made a reputation for himself by the end of first semester.  In all of his classes, whenever the class was over, instead of rushing to the podium to talk to the professor like most law students do, the cats in his class would actually rush over to him to seek their daily explanations of the substantive law.

What pissed me off about that was that the black students in the early track were some of the main ones seeking knowledge from this kid instead of from their professors.  When we would get together for study groups, they would often start their conversations by saying "Well [King Gunner] said that..."

R U Serious?  I don't care what King Gunner said or didn't say.  Stop asking another law student about the law. You guys are killin me.


So second semester rolls around and they mix the tracks up, so for the first time early trackers mix with late trackers.   Wouldn't you know it, I had Civ Pro with King Gunner.  For the first few weeks I saw this kid espouse about his legal pontifications with authority, however my Civ Pro professor, a Yalie, was the type of professor who knew his stuff down cold and didn't stand for irrelevant comments or grandstanding in his classroom.  Nearly every time King Gunner would raise his hand to speak on something, the professor would have to clean it up at the end with a "I think you meant to say _____."  But even when he would clean up King Gunner's comments, the black students in my class were still of the belief that he was omniscient. (King Gunner that is, not my Civ Pro professor who had practiced the law for 10 years)

This continued throughout the first 2 months.  I made up my mind that this foolishness had to stop.  So I finished whatever LRW paper I was working on at the time a whole week early to get it out of the way, and then I sat down with the Civ Pro E&E , the EZ Rules, my case book, a few law review articles on Civ Pro, and the Civ Pro Flash Cards for a week straight every day, soaking it in.  Monday rolls around.  The topic - Personal Jurisdiction.  I remember that damn thing like yesterday.

So the class gets going.  King Gunner does his usual routine - which is to let the class fumble about for 10-15 minutes in the dark before he chimes in with his intelligent sounding answer and emerges as the truth and the light yet again.  Not this time, folks.  The class has their back and forth about personal jurisdiction...no strong points are made...enter King Gunner stage left with what appeared, for a moment, to be the award winning statement of the day.  Before he concluded I quickly recognized the hole in his argument based on all that I had read, and so I calmly and quietly raised my hand to expose it to the rest of the class.  The Professor calls on me.  "Actually, that's incorrect because...." 

Silence   :o

My professor plays right along and turns it back to King Gunner to defend himself:  "Do you have a rebuttal for [Mr. Sands]?"

King Gunner, not used to being challenged, comes back with a nice attempted save, but its not enough because I specifically read something to the opposite of his second argument.

My professor turns to the right: "[Mr. Sands], can you dispute [Mr. Gunner's] point here?"

"Actually I can because [Mr. Gunner] is confusing this issue with the issue that the Court has consistently emphasized since Shoe.  Personal Jurisdiction must be taken from the perspective of the defendant's 14th amendment right to Due Process, not the plaintiff's as [Mr. Gunner] stated."

Silence.  :o

You could feel the class waiting to see if that was actually correct or if I was just blowing smoke up everybody's ass.  I particularly noticed that the black students in my class who had previously been playing solitare or shopping on e-bay a minute ago were now paying full attention since one of "us" had dared to take on the ever knowing King Gunner, who was, after all, the source of all substantive legal knowledge in their minds up until that point.

My professor doesn't even turn back to King Gunner to get a response.  The Prof just simply says, "that is correct, [Mr. Sands]," and moves on to his next lecture point.

You could see several classmates looking around at each other with eyebrows raised high, eyes wide open, and looks on their faces like "daaaaaaaaamn!"  I looked over and saw King Gunner flipping rapidly through his case book, trying to cook up a rebuttal, but he didn't speak again for the rest of that class, and didn't have too much to say for the rest of the semester either as I recall.





What was most interesting to me about that day are the reactions I got from my fellow students after class ended. From the white students, I got comments like "thank God somebody finally shut that guy up, he was getting on my nerves" which I took to mean that many of them had not been deceived by his intellectual smoke and mirror show.  From the black students, however, I got comments like "son, how the hell did you do that?"  >:( >:( >:(

It was one of the more memorable yet bitter/sweet moments of my law school career.







Nice work! lol @ him flipping through the pages...HA!
Why would anyone look to another student as an authoritative source?
and WHY would people shop on ebay during law school classes?!?!?  :o

A.

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Re: Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's
« Reply #284 on: December 21, 2007, 03:24:22 PM »
and WHY would people shop on ebay during law school classes?!?!?  :o

LMAO.  Spoken like a true non-law-student. I do some of my best internet surfing in class.  Fed Cts. was designated facebook scrabulous time.  Ask Miss P ;)

cui bono?

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Re: Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's
« Reply #285 on: December 21, 2007, 03:36:05 PM »


Nice work! lol @ him flipping through the pages...HA!
Why would anyone look to another student as an authoritative source?
and WHY would people shop on ebay during law school classes?!?!?  :o

 :)

1- 1Ls are the most neurotic folks you will ever meet in your entire life!  Most of 'em anyway.  As a 1L you're in a situation that you have never been in before.  Naturally, you look to people who you think have it together...the only thing you THINK you have to go on is class participation.  1Ls are weird, self-destructing creatures.  They are too scared to go up to the professor, too scared to make friends with upperclassmen, etc. 

Why would ppl shop?  Here's where I gotta draw from LEEWS and PLS II, in a class that lasts about an hour - hour and half, about 15 mins worth will actually be worth writing down. Which 15 mins?  Well that's the key. Some gems come from the professor and some of the gems come from other students.  Deciphering that info is on you. But the ABA has an attendance requirement for a reason!  No one would go if they didn't.  I wouldn't have gone if they didn't!   So some ppl shop, others IM, others go on BLSD, etc.  Now some ppl do it and honestly have a mastery of the material, some ppl do it to fake like they have a mastery of the material, and some ppl do it just because they really dont care about law school (my homegyrl that sat next to me never read a single case nor a stich of outline; wasn't just saying that to fake me out, she really didnt); most are just bored tho  ;) 

lalalagirl007

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Re: Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's
« Reply #286 on: December 21, 2007, 04:16:45 PM »
and WHY would people shop on ebay during law school classes?!?!?  :o

LMAO.  Spoken like a true non-law-student. I do some of my best internet surfing in class.  Fed Cts. was designated facebook scrabulous time.  Ask Miss P ;)

LOL @ best internet surfing in class!! (btw, I LOVE scrabulous on facebook!) Guess I won't know until I get there!

I am Penny Lane

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Re: Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's
« Reply #287 on: December 21, 2007, 06:02:54 PM »
This thread is killer!

Tag.

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's
« Reply #288 on: December 21, 2007, 08:53:37 PM »
and WHY would people shop on ebay during law school classes?!?!?  :o

LMAO.  Spoken like a true non-law-student. I do some of my best internet surfing in class.  Fed Cts. was designated facebook scrabulous time.  Ask Miss P ;)

LOL right.  Girl you will see soon enough - folks do more web-surfing in class than anything.  It is the talented student who can surf the web, respond intelligently when called on by the prof, and then hop right back to surfing the web again without missing a beat. :D

pikey

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Re: Horror Stories/Let's scare the new 1L's
« Reply #289 on: December 21, 2007, 10:02:04 PM »
and WHY would people shop on ebay during law school classes?!?!?  :o

LMAO.  Spoken like a true non-law-student. I do some of my best internet surfing in class.  Fed Cts. was designated facebook scrabulous time.  Ask Miss P ;)

LOL right.  Girl you will see soon enough - folks do more web-surfing in class than anything.  It is the talented student who can surf the web, respond intelligently when called on by the prof, and then hop right back to surfing the web again without missing a beat. :D

Lol, that's me!  The girl who sits behind me in civ pro came up to me after one class because she could see that I was surfing the net and thought I would choke when the prof called on me.  Instead I calmly answered his questions correctly, made sure he was done with me, then went back to shopping.  I've even bought plane tickets in class!  :D