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Messages - Bored 3L

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41
Current Law Students / Re: Another insecure 1L post
« on: September 12, 2006, 06:21:55 AM »
I think you've isolated your problem: you're spending too much time reading cases, worrying about details that don't matter.

Find and review some of your professors old exam.  Look at the complexity of the fact patterns and the time alloted to complete the exam.  I'm confident you'll see that you won't be discussing the nuances of every case in any kind of detail on your exams.  You might discuss these nuances in class sometimes, but who cares?  You won't need to know them on the exam so you shouldn't worry about them.

Approach your cases this way instead: read each case, and try to state the case's import -- the rule it stands for or what it adds to another rule -- in a sentence or two.  Then write about two sentences on the facts and rationale.  If it helps you understand the rule, state the issue as well.  That's all you need to retain from your cases, and if you're worrying about more than that, you're just wasting your time.  

It's really much more important to think about the way the cases relate and form a coherent doctrine than to think about the details of each case in isolation.  This is especially true in your case b/c you're spending so much time on class preparation that you don't have time to go back and review what you've done or socialize with your classmates.

42
Transferring / Re: Staying v. Leaving
« on: August 29, 2006, 01:00:08 PM »
A lot of people will tell you to go, but the big thing you have to think about is your options.  If you want to work at a big law firm, it seems that most of those opportunities are doled out during 2L OCI.  If you can't make the cut there, you won't be able to land that job (initially).

If you go to a top-20, you're going to be competing against kids who have journals, moot courts and grades.  I'm in the top 3rd of my class at a top-20, on a journal (was also selected for a moot court), and I can't even get big firm interviews through our OCI program.  I've won legal writing awards, have a great summer job, and loads of extra cirrculars.  Not to scare you, but you might not do so hot either.

And for all those who say OCI doesn't matter -- I'm calling you out.  It does.  I've phoned more than 20 firms in DC over the past few days.  I sent them all cover letters and resumes as a "write in" candidate.  They told me they only look at write-ins if they don't fill up through OCI.  Considering that many visit more than 25 schools, and see more than 18 candidates in a day, I don't think I'll be hearing many positive things about screening interviews.

Your OCI at your current school will treat you much more favorably.  If you're personable, and can find a firm you want to work at through your current school, then don't go.  Leave for the academic reasons (professor who researches/lectures on an obscure subject matter).  Leave for the personal reasons (Grandma is sick; spouse got a new job).  Don't leave for the prestige.  It's an empty chase.

I'm surprised you haven't had better luck at OCI.  Do you go to Minn?  I only ask b/c Minn seems to be the weakest top-20 program in terms of placement.


43
Job Search / Re: Callback interviews
« on: August 28, 2006, 01:48:39 PM »
This probably depends on where the firms are located.  Although there are always exceptions, in my experience and that of my friends, NYC firms are usually very quick about extending callback offers, often making the invitation at the screening interview itself or within 2 days thereafter.  By contrast, DC firms seemed to take a little longer, generally a week or so to extend offers.


44
Generally, employers prefer students who have an editorial position (i.e. front office, as your journal defines it), and give additional weight to the EIC, ME.  That said, I dont think editor positions are make or break—it's just another factor employers consider.  It's my understanding that judges are more concerned with editorial positions than law firms.

Assuming you get your job through OCI, it shouldn't really matter though, because you will have accepted a summer associate position before you know whether you have been chosen to be an editor (OCI will be complete by February).  Thus, it would only really matter if you want to re-interview in your third year, of if you plan on applying for clerkships.

Also, I would def. not try to shadow the EIC or anyone else.  If you're curious as to what the job entails -- and you should be if you're seriously considering applying for the position -- sit down and talk with the EIC, but don't try to shadow him.

As a personal anecdote, I was an editor on the law review at my school, though not the EIC or ME, and, thus far, I don't think it's helped me in any tangible way, though I suppose it might down the road.

45
Current Law Students / Re: Law Review Wait...and wait....and wait
« on: August 07, 2006, 07:21:42 PM »
While your comments are interesting, I thought I'd explain what happened. I made several inquiries throughout the process and did not receive a straightfoward answer. I also communicated my problem to the committee before I submitted it, telling them that I acted on their advice and still confronted a problem. They said they would still read it, as it had been sent in with a page total under the limit. Perhaps I was docked for it, but they did read it.

Well, this is fair if it was, as you said, sent in with a page total under the limit.  In your prior post you were concerned that you were not under the limit.

46
I'm still working on my comment for publication- and I've graduated.  But I'd say so far 75 hours on it.  That was third year.  2L- maybe 25-30 hours.  I wasn't on the editorial board.

That's it? 25 hours a semester on average? That's nothing.

I worked way more than 25 hours per semester. 

47
It's difficult to determine how many hours per week you will have to spend on law review b/c some weeks you will be extremely busy with law review, and others you will be completely free.

You will probably be the most busy your first semester second year.  Most law reviews require you to write a student note, and it generally must be completed by the end of your first semester second year, or sometime in the beginning of the next semester.  This is difficult because you will have OCI to deal with at the same time.  Trust me when I say that your fellow non-law-review classmates will not appreciate you complaining about your law review time commitments.

48
I have a chance to do the write-on competition at a 2nd tier school. The thing is only 17 people out of 100 will make it on. I already have a job that I can work at next year and possibly later.  Is it stupid to forgo the competition, work and get more experience during the school year and then try to grade on my second year. I think it is more imp to get high grades and work experience than to be on law review. I do work at a small firm but i don't think I'll be a candidate for a big firm any time soon.

I think you should do the competition for several reasons.  Including, in no particular order:

1. 17/100 isn't bad odds, really. 

2. Law Review will only prevent you from getting work experience your first semester second year, when you have to write your note.  After that, you should have more time, and if you don't join the editorial board in your third year, you will have a lot of extra time in your third year.

3. Law Review will not prevent you from getting high grades.  In my experience, virtually the entire top 10% was on law review.

4. It's a great credential, the most important thing aside from grades.

5. Finally, even if you like your current job, it's highly unlikely that you will work there your entire career, and when you look to change jobs, law review will help you in your search.

49
Current Law Students / Re: Law Review Wait...and wait....and wait
« on: August 05, 2006, 08:29:53 AM »
That's not harsh at all.  The purpose of Law Review is to invite not only good writers, but those individuals who follow basic instructions.  Thus the reasoning goes: if you can't follow a simple instruction regarding the page limit on a competition (and nowhere near as complicated and thorough as a real) casenote, what makes the Law Review editors think that you are capable of adhering to more complicated instructions once you make the Journal?

Remember that if you refused to follow instructions, there are many more  write-on competitors who did, and those are the people who deserve to be on Law Review...period.

I agree, and that's why I said I wouldn't have read the paper.  I just thought it might come across as harsh to hopeful rising 2Ls.
Maybe in this case it might be a little harsh, because this truly could have been a computer problem.  It happens all the time that something which was formatted exactly correct gets screwed up when you make it an e-mail attachment, or turn it into a PDF and send it.  If the writer had notified the law review immediately, and was able to show the untouched, original copy of the note, I might consider reading it.

I know what you're thinking.  "They should have it done earlier and checked this sort of thing."  But then the write-on competition changes from being about producing the best written product to finishing the fastest to make sure everything is checked throughly.  However, the chances that it was actually a computer problem are slim.  I said it happens all the time, but most of the time it was not formatted correctly.  Like a margin was changed which through off the page count.  And most people would screw around with the paper, thus changing the date and time it was edited.

This is why I would prefer a cite-checking component, and a casenote component.  Let people be meticulous in the cite-checking part, and be slightly more lax with formatting mistakes in the paper.  Like punish someone severely for going over a page limit, but don't DQ them.

If it were a smaller error I might agree, or at least see your porint, but he said it was 3 pages over the limit -- that's a substantial error.  In any case, it's up to the applicant to double check their work before submitting it.  And I do think they should have checked it earlier, and I don't quite understand your problem with that.  As a grader, I was looking for well written, error-free papers.  I expected the papers to be checked thoroughly because I expect law review staff members to pay attention to details and produce error-free work.  Besides, it would have taken 30 seconds to determine that the paper was 3 page over. 

50
Current Law Students / Re: Law Review Wait...and wait....and wait
« on: August 04, 2006, 06:56:36 PM »
That's not harsh at all.  The purpose of Law Review is to invite not only good writers, but those individuals who follow basic instructions.  Thus the reasoning goes: if you can't follow a simple instruction regarding the page limit on a competition (and nowhere near as complicated and thorough as a real) casenote, what makes the Law Review editors think that you are capable of adhering to more complicated instructions once you make the Journal?

Remember that if you refused to follow instructions, there are many more  write-on competitors who did, and those are the people who deserve to be on Law Review...period.

I agree, and that's why I said I wouldn't have read the paper.  I just thought it might come across as harsh to hopeful rising 2Ls.

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