Law School Discussion

LSAT Preparation => Studying for the LSAT => Topic started by: paigeroo on June 12, 2006, 04:43:45 PM

Title: ....
Post by: paigeroo on June 12, 2006, 04:43:45 PM
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Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 04:55:47 PM
I disagree with #1. It shouldn't matter what's the MOST beautiful. The assumption is simply that "the best" = "beautiful". That's where the scope shift comes in. I could be wrong but Im not the only one who thinks its C.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: Da5id on June 12, 2006, 05:02:55 PM
Quote
3.  Garlic Eating
Answer:  Know what was in everyone's diet because that could have been an outside factor that effected levels

If true I'd be thrilled.... that was one I flat out disliked... since it said the groups were "similar" I didn't think there was a particular reason to fear dietary differences.... I had it between diet and less than four months and went diet, but didn't like that so much as hated the rest.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 05:03:30 PM
Keep 'em coming, folks.  I'm very interested.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: Da5id on June 12, 2006, 05:05:47 PM
IIRC I felt confident on 1 that it was that the best art was beautiful.

If the New Age philosopher is the one I thought it was, I strongly believed the answer was "X mistakenly assumes that if a phenomenon is x and y we must use reasoning that is x and y to understand it".
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: zhyue on June 12, 2006, 05:06:39 PM
What does C say? I remember I picked the one that only the best is beautiful.

I disagree with #1. It shouldn't matter what's the MOST beautiful. The assumption is simply that "the best" = "beautiful". That's where the scope shift comes in. I could be wrong but Im not the only one who thinks its C.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 05:07:44 PM
Anyone remember the "similar flaw in the reasoning" question where all the answers involved Mary and her classmates? I can't remember specifics, but the flawed reasoning was something like "Most of Mary's classmates are happy. Most happy people are fun. Thus, at least one of Mary's classmates is fun."

Answer A seemed right, but I was pressed for time, so I didn't check any other answers. Answer A also seemed like the simplest answer, so I'm having doubts.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 05:09:28 PM
Anyone remember the "similar flaw in the reasoning" question where all the answers involved Mary and her classmates? I can't remember specifics, but the flawed reasoning was something like "Most of Mary's classmates are happy. Most happy people are fun. Thus, at least one of Mary's classmates is fun."

Answer A seemed right, but I was pressed for time, so I didn't check any other answers. Answer A also seemed like the simplest answer, so I'm having doubts.

I think it was Molly and I think I chose D
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 40 TO GO!
Post by: cassise on June 12, 2006, 05:10:42 PM
it was the one that wasn't  a -> b , a-> c....
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 05:13:21 PM
Anyone remember the "similar flaw in the reasoning" question where all the answers involved Mary and her classmates? I can't remember specifics, but the flawed reasoning was something like "Most of Mary's classmates are happy. Most happy people are fun. Thus, at least one of Mary's classmates is fun."

Answer A seemed right, but I was pressed for time, so I didn't check any other answers. Answer A also seemed like the simplest answer, so I'm having doubts.

They were all very similar phrasing, but the most correct ones were further down the list.  I think I picked D, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 05:15:28 PM
What does C say? I remember I picked the one that only the best is beautiful.

I disagree with #1. It shouldn't matter what's the MOST beautiful. The assumption is simply that "the best" = "beautiful". That's where the scope shift comes in. I could be wrong but Im not the only one who thinks its C.

Thats the one "Only the best art is beautiful". Because then it makes sense that beauty does not equal truth because the most realistic art is not the best art. If only the best art is the only one that could be beautiful, then it would have to be true that truth does not equal beauty.
A was a shell I think, THE MOST beautiful? We're not assuming degrees of beauty here, just what makes "the best" analogous to "beautiful". I could be wrong but Im sure convinced it was "C".
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 05:16:51 PM
Anyone remember the "similar flaw in the reasoning" question where all the answers involved Mary and her classmates? I can't remember specifics, but the flawed reasoning was something like "Most of Mary's classmates are happy. Most happy people are fun. Thus, at least one of Mary's classmates is fun."

Answer A seemed right, but I was pressed for time, so I didn't check any other answers. Answer A also seemed like the simplest answer, so I'm having doubts.

They were all very similar phrasing, but the most correct ones were further down the list.  I think I picked D, but I'm not sure.


If  I remember correctly I thought it was "A" because "D" became too specific like "there is a female classmates of Molly who is fun" or whatever, which was too specific to fit the format of the stimulus.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 05:18:26 PM

Thats the one "Only the best art is beautiful". Because then it makes sense that beauty does not equal truth because the most realistic art is not the best art. If only the best art is the only one that could be beautiful, then it would have to be true that truth does not equal beauty.
A was a shell I think, THE MOST beautiful? We're not assuming degrees of beauty here, just what makes "the best" analogous to "beautiful". I could be wrong but Im sure convinced it was "C".

the stimulus did mention something about being the best art though.  and it was an assumption Q, the answer C seems like restating the conclusion of the stimulus
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 05:20:07 PM
Anyone remember the "similar flaw in the reasoning" question where all the answers involved Mary and her classmates? I can't remember specifics, but the flawed reasoning was something like "Most of Mary's classmates are happy. Most happy people are fun. Thus, at least one of Mary's classmates is fun."

Answer A seemed right, but I was pressed for time, so I didn't check any other answers. Answer A also seemed like the simplest answer, so I'm having doubts.

They were all very similar phrasing, but the most correct ones were further down the list.  I think I picked D, but I'm not sure.


If  I remember correctly I thought it was "A" because "D" became too specific like "there is a female classmates of Molly who is fun" or whatever, which was too specific to fit the format of the stimulus.

No, I went back and matched the phrasing.  They basically just substituted words from the stimulus - changed the nouns and the verbs.  This one accommodated the phrasing.  But I was hesitant between D and E.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: strivergirl on June 12, 2006, 05:20:25 PM
da5id, i totally agree with you on the new age philosopher one.  i was starting to think i was crazy...no one even mentioned that answer...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 05:22:48 PM
If the New Age philosopher is the one I thought it was, I strongly believed the answer was "X mistakenly assumes that if a phenomenon is x and y we must use reasoning that is x and y to understand it".

I had this but then changed it because the stimulus was prohibitive rather than prescriptive: it didn't say what we MUST use, but rather, that a system could not be thought of abstractly.  It seemed like it was saying what couldn't be used, and nothing about what could be used
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: Bork on June 12, 2006, 05:24:20 PM
Whoo Hoooo! Im taking a shot for every one i think i got right....so the better I did the more screwed up I'll be!!!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 05:24:50 PM
Anyone remember what your last 3 letter choices were for the harder of the two LR sections?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 05:29:10 PM
If the New Age philosopher is the one I thought it was, I strongly believed the answer was "X mistakenly assumes that if a phenomenon is x and y we must use reasoning that is x and y to understand it".

I had this but then changed it because the stimulus was prohibitive rather than prescriptive: it didn't say what we MUST use, but rather, that a system could not be thought of abstractly.  It seemed like it was saying what couldn't be used, and nothing about what could be used

Okay, someone detail the stimulus again, because I'm struggling to remember this one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 42 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 05:29:53 PM
If the New Age philosopher is the one I thought it was, I strongly believed the answer was "X mistakenly assumes that if a phenomenon is x and y we must use reasoning that is x and y to understand it".

I had this but then changed it because the stimulus was prohibitive rather than prescriptive: it didn't say what we MUST use, but rather, that a system could not be thought of abstractly.  It seemed like it was saying what couldn't be used, and nothing about what could be used

Okay, someone detail the stimulus again, because I'm struggling to remember this one.


Me too. I had 3 LR sections and for the life of me I cant remember this New Age Philosopher.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: dusya4 on June 12, 2006, 05:30:30 PM
da5id, i totally agree with you on the new age philosopher one.  i was starting to think i was crazy...no one even mentioned that answer...

Don't think you are crazy, that's what I picked as well. So there is three of us now, it just took me a little bit to remember the answer.

How about the last question in one of the LR sections that was parallel reasoning. I don't remember what the question was but I picked the answer about the pilots.

And another parallel reasoning question where I picked A) which was about children having learning difficulties because of hearing problems or something like that. Anyone remember that one?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: agm28 on June 12, 2006, 05:30:53 PM
For the doctor question, I think I remember putting E... something with objects. Can anyone explain why that was wrong?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: Bork on June 12, 2006, 05:31:21 PM
Hmmm.. I think number ten might be from an experimental section....i dont recall a prof talking smack and I only had two sections of LR.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: strivergirl on June 12, 2006, 05:32:33 PM
i thought it was something like...new age phil says nature grows organically and is a whole unified system.  therefore we have to study nature using holistic, unified reasoning, and NOT the reasoning used by physical sciences, in which they take apart things and look at individual parts.

that's why i chose the answer i did...it seemed like the phil was assuming that you had to use the same kind of reasoning on a system as the structure of that system.  why shouldn't you be able to understand a unified system by taking it apart?  kinda like the lsat....
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 05:33:03 PM
da5id, i totally agree with you on the new age philosopher one.  i was starting to think i was crazy...no one even mentioned that answer...

Don't think you are crazy, that's what I picked as well. So there is three of us now, it just took me a little bit to remember the answer.

How about the last question in one of the LR sections that was parallel reasoning. I don't remember what the question was but I picked the answer about the pilots.

And another parallel reasoning question where I picked A) which was about children having learning difficulties because of hearing problems or something like that. Anyone remember that one?

Vaguely.  I'm too tired to recall details, though.  I think I picked the same answer for the second one, though.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 05:34:40 PM
i thought it was something like...new age phil says nature grows organically and is a whole unified system.  therefore we have to study nature using holistic, unified reasoning, and the reasoning used by physical sciences, in which they take apart things and look at individual parts.

that's why i chose the answer i did...it seemed like the phil was assuming that you had to use the same kind of reasoning on a system as the structure of that system.  why shouldn't you be able to understand a unified system by taking it apart?  kinda like the lsat....

Damn.  I think I put D, which had something to do with breaking things into constituent parts.  @#!*, I can't remember.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 05:37:55 PM
What was the stimulus for the philosopher Q?  I thought it was like "The way the physical sciences analyzes nature is wrong because it breaks something up into pieces which is interconnected."  It didn't say anything about how you should analyze it, it just said the physical sciences does it wrong by looking at it abstractly

edit:  I did do this Q in the last seconds, and I don't remember whether I put D or A
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: Sooner on June 12, 2006, 05:38:44 PM
The one that I am a little hung up on is this one:

Humans can do certain things unconsciously, without thinking about it. So establishing that animals are intelligent does not establish that they are...blah blah

Was this experimental? I had 3 LR sections. This is the only question I was still thinking about when I left the test center. I went through the other ones too quickly to remember much about them. The curve is going to be brutal on this one, guys.

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 05:40:24 PM
The one that I am a little hung up on is this one:

Humans can do certain things unconsciously, without thinking about it. So establishing that animals are intelligent does not establish that they are...blah blah

Was this experimental? I had 3 LR sections. This is the only question I was still thinking about when I left the test center. I went through the other ones too quickly to remember much about them. The curve is going to be brutal on this one, guys.



Oh that one, the answer I put was that intelligence does not imply consciousness.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 05:42:50 PM
Yeah, there was only one answer that connected intelligence and consciousness.  However, can't tell you if this was experimental or not.  I had 3 LR as well.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: strivergirl on June 12, 2006, 05:43:45 PM
argh, that was confusing.  i put that problem-solving or whatever requires intelligence.  but that's probably wrong.  the reason i didn't pick either of the two with both intelligence and consciousness was that one just seemed to be restating the conclusion (consciousness doesn't imply intelligence) and the other was the opposite of the conclusion (i.e. intelligence implies consciousness).  geez, maybe i didn't do that well on this exam after all...

edit: this one was not experimental.  i had two LGs.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 40 TO GO!
Post by: agm28 on June 12, 2006, 05:44:48 PM
what were the answers to the last two questions on the hard LR?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 40 TO GO!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 05:44:55 PM
No, what I meant to say is, there was only one answer that connected consciousness and intelligence properly.  I can't remember which answer it was.  I'm too vague on the details.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: nu07 on June 12, 2006, 05:59:50 PM
Did anyone have a LR question about some woman who has to disclose her finances if she meets some two-part condition (like she has to either be on the board of some company as well as something else)?  I'm pretty sure that this was #25 of a 26 question section.  I think the answer had something to do with the fact that even though she doesn't meet the condition, she might have to disclose her finances anyway for some other reason.

Also, those of you who had either Logic Games or RC experimental sections--did you have the question I'm describing?  This section was insanely difficult, easily the hardest LR section I've ever done, so I would be thrilled to hear that it was actually just experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 06:01:45 PM
Did anyone have a LR question about some woman who has to disclose her finances if she meets some two-part condition (like she has to either be on the board of some company as well as something else)?  I'm pretty sure that this was #25 of a 26 question section.  I think the answer had something to do with the fact that even though she doesn't meet the condition, she might have to disclose her finances anyway for some other reason.

Also, those of you who had either Logic Games or RC experimental sections--did you have the question I'm describing?  This section was insanely difficult, easily the hardest LR section I've ever done, so I would be thrilled to hear that it was actually just experimental.

I have no idea which section it was in but I remember that one and it was def. that she might have to disclose for another reason (or assuming the stated criteria are the only reasons she'd have to disclose or whatever). I thought that was an easy one, especially considering the endless series of tricky ones we've been arguing over.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: strivergirl on June 12, 2006, 06:02:08 PM
sorry, i had that question and an lg experimental.  i got the same answer as you though.  opening my store is going to kill me...ugh.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 06:03:41 PM
Did anyone have a LR question about some woman who has to disclose her finances if she meets some two-part condition (like she has to either be on the board of some company as well as something else)?  I'm pretty sure that this was #25 of a 26 question section.  I think the answer had something to do with the fact that even though she doesn't meet the condition, she might have to disclose her finances anyway for some other reason.

I had this one.  *moves closer to the fax machine*  I'm not sure what I chose, do you remember any more of it?  It seemed like she didn't meet EITHER of the conditions set
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 06:05:24 PM
Did anyone have a LR question about some woman who has to disclose her finances if she meets some two-part condition (like she has to either be on the board of some company as well as something else)?  I'm pretty sure that this was #25 of a 26 question section.  I think the answer had something to do with the fact that even though she doesn't meet the condition, she might have to disclose her finances anyway for some other reason.

I had this one.  *moves closer to the fax machine*  I'm not sure what I chose, do you remember any more of it?  It seemed like she didn't meet EITHER of the conditions set

She didn't but the idea was there could be OTHER reasons she'd have to disclose. If A or B she has to disclose. But what if C would force her to disclose (even if it was unstated). It didnt say A and B were the ONLY reasons.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 06:05:37 PM
Did anyone have a LR question about some woman who has to disclose her finances if she meets some two-part condition (like she has to either be on the board of some company as well as something else)?  I'm pretty sure that this was #25 of a 26 question section.  I think the answer had something to do with the fact that even though she doesn't meet the condition, she might have to disclose her finances anyway for some other reason.

Also, those of you who had either Logic Games or RC experimental sections--did you have the question I'm describing?  This section was insanely difficult, easily the hardest LR section I've ever done, so I would be thrilled to hear that it was actually just experimental.

It was one of the hardest LR sections I've ever done, too. I didn't even get to that question. I just hope the answer the last few questions is D.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 06:07:32 PM
And another parallel reasoning question where I picked A) which was about children having learning difficulties because of hearing problems or something like that. Anyone remember that one?

I'm not sure if we're thinking of the same question, but I narrowed it down to 2 answers, and the one that said "... merely coincidental" was wrong in my opinion, because the question gave an explanation for the coincidence.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: nu07 on June 12, 2006, 06:09:52 PM
I have no idea which section it was in but I remember that one and it was def. that she might have to disclose for another reason (or assuming the stated criteria are the only reasons she'd have to disclose or whatever). I thought that was an easy one, especially considering the endless series of tricky ones we've been arguing over.

Yeah actually this particular question wasn't too hard, it's just the only one I remember from a brutal section.  The one before it (#24), it was a "which of the following has the same reasoning pattern"...do you remember if by chance you put "E"?  Also, for the one after it (#26), I have no memory whatsoever of the question, but do you remember what you got?  Was it "C"?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 06:11:25 PM
I have no idea which section it was in but I remember that one and it was def. that she might have to disclose for another reason (or assuming the stated criteria are the only reasons she'd have to disclose or whatever). I thought that was an easy one, especially considering the endless series of tricky ones we've been arguing over.

Yeah actually this particular question wasn't too hard, it's just the only one I remember from a brutal section.  The one before it (#24), it was a "which of the following has the same reasoning pattern"...do you remember if by chance you put "E"?  Also, for the one after it (#26), I have no memory whatsoever of the question, but do you remember what you got?  Was it "C"?

No clue, you'd have to jog my memory with question subjects.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: Sooner on June 12, 2006, 06:21:29 PM
For the unconscious/intelligence one, I think the correct answer was something like "intelligence does not require consciousness." Does anyone remember that specific choice? If that was really a choice, then that one would have to be correct. If intelligence required consciousness, then by proving animals have intelligence, one would have also proven that animals have consciousness.

Here's a nugget, guys...parallel reasoning, something like #21 in one of the real LR sections:

Mathematics and music educations, music develops math skills, not necessarily because a intellectually nurturing home could be the cause of both. I think the correct answer was the kids with difficulty in class that could have undiagnosed hearing problems. The pattern to replicate was that there could be some third factor that influences both of the identified factors. This was probably the toughest LR question on the test. There were several other answer choices that were really attractive. But I think the kids in class one was the only one that hit on the 3rd factor influencing two previously identified ones.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 06:27:39 PM
For the unconscious/intelligence one, I think the correct answer was something like "intelligence does not require consciousness." Does anyone remember that specific choice? If that was really a choice, then that one would have to be correct. If intelligence required consciousness, then by proving animals have intelligence, one would have also proven that animals have consciousness.

Here's a nugget, guys...parallel reasoning, something like #21 in one of the real LR sections:

Mathematics and music educations, music develops math skills, not necessarily because a intellectually nurturing home could be the cause of both. I think the correct answer was the kids with difficulty in class that could have undiagnosed hearing problems. The pattern to replicate was that there could be some third factor that influences both of the identified factors. This was probably the toughest LR question on the test. There were several other answer choices that were really attractive. But I think the kids in class one was the only one that hit on the 3rd factor influencing two previously identified ones.

Yeah, but in that case, the reason given only explained the first part, which then caused the poor grades.  The bad hearing isn't causing the bad grades, per se - it's causing the failure to pay attention, which in turn causes the bad grades.  I answered C, but I can't for the life of me remember what that was...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 12, 2006, 06:30:32 PM
HDL/LDL question, high levels of LDL correlated with low risk, I believe it was a weaken EXCEPT

the answer was something like LDL is removed from the blood more quickly then HDL


the pilots and flight crew cross-check/ verbal communications

I picked something like verbal communication increases depending upon other means available


Somber writer, point at issue

I put they disagree about whether a writer who writes somber stuff can be a good writer
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: nu07 on June 12, 2006, 06:31:13 PM
[quote author=Rockbird
No clue, you'd have to jog my memory with question subjects.


Was #26 possibly the one about computers and TVs...like whether computers will replace TVs?  I think I got C, which was something about most people with computers already having TVs. Ring a bell?  Or was this not 26?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 06:35:18 PM
HDL/LDL question, high levels of LDL correlated with low risk, I believe it was a weaken EXCEPT

the answer was something like LDL is removed from the blood more quickly then HDL


the pilots and flight crew cross-check/ verbal communications

I picked something like verbal communication increases depending upon other means available

I can't remember what I put for the HDL one.  I believe I put that answer for the flight crew question.  Was it E? or perhaps D, one of the later answers I think.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 33 TO GO!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 06:37:25 PM
To whomever is updating the master list:

For #17, I think that answer is correct, but I recall something about being "medically effective," not just effective.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 33 TO GO!
Post by: Futballer on June 12, 2006, 06:40:08 PM
What about the one with the Birds/Flies/Grass/Cows lol. Or was that exp. section?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 12, 2006, 06:40:44 PM
For the unconscious/intelligence one, I think the correct answer was something like "intelligence does not require consciousness." Does anyone remember that specific choice? If that was really a choice, then that one would have to be correct. If intelligence required consciousness, then by proving animals have intelligence, one would have also proven that animals have consciousness.

Here's a nugget, guys...parallel reasoning, something like #21 in one of the real LR sections:

Mathematics and music educations, music develops math skills, not necessarily because a intellectually nurturing home could be the cause of both. I think the correct answer was the kids with difficulty in class that could have undiagnosed hearing problems. The pattern to replicate was that there could be some third factor that influences both of the identified factors. This was probably the toughest LR question on the test. There were several other answer choices that were really attractive. But I think the kids in class one was the only one that hit on the 3rd factor influencing two previously identified ones.

Yeah, but in that case, the reason given only explained the first part, which then caused the poor grades.  The bad hearing isn't causing the bad grades, per se - it's causing the failure to pay attention, which in turn causes the bad grades.  I answered C, but I can't for the life of me remember what that was...

I chose C as well, but the answer slips my mind.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 39 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 06:42:04 PM
[quote author=Rockbird
No clue, you'd have to jog my memory with question subjects.


Was #26 possibly the one about computers and TVs...like whether computers will replace TVs?  I think I got C, which was something about most people with computers already having TVs. Ring a bell?  Or was this not 26?

I dont know what number it was but I got the same answer for the TV/computer question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 33 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 06:42:54 PM
What about the one with the Birds/Flies/Grass/Cows lol. Or was that exp. section?

Predators kept away by cows is the alternate reason.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 33 TO GO!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 06:45:22 PM
To whomever is updating the master list:

For #17, I think that answer is correct, but I recall something about being "medically effective," not just effective.

Thanks Duhon, I'll make a note of that and I think you mean #18.

And to think, paige, you were worried about there not being a p-m!  Turns out people are too fried to remember the details of most questions anyways. 

Agreed about the predators and the birds, btw. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 33 TO GO!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 06:47:25 PM
For the distribution of herbal supplements question--I think that was a two part question, and I think my second answer involved the boss realizing money wouldnt be made

also for the Video games/kids/aggression question--does anyone know more information?
I thought that one was pretty easy and I am pretty sure thats not the answer i got.

14 of 18 posted so far though, and blazed as hell, so i could be wrong about these things.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 33 TO GO!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 06:49:16 PM
whats the consensus about the air traffic control thing?  also, what was the question about HDL? 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: Corgi on June 12, 2006, 06:52:34 PM
For the unconscious/intelligence one, I think the correct answer was something like "intelligence does not require consciousness." Does anyone remember that specific choice? If that was really a choice, then that one would have to be correct. If intelligence required consciousness, then by proving animals have intelligence, one would have also proven that animals have consciousness.

Here's a nugget, guys...parallel reasoning, something like #21 in one of the real LR sections:

Mathematics and music educations, music develops math skills, not necessarily because a intellectually nurturing home could be the cause of both. I think the correct answer was the kids with difficulty in class that could have undiagnosed hearing problems. The pattern to replicate was that there could be some third factor that influences both of the identified factors. This was probably the toughest LR question on the test. There were several other answer choices that were really attractive. But I think the kids in class one was the only one that hit on the 3rd factor influencing two previously identified ones.

Yeah, but in that case, the reason given only explained the first part, which then caused the poor grades.  The bad hearing isn't causing the bad grades, per se - it's causing the failure to pay attention, which in turn causes the bad grades.  I answered C, but I can't for the life of me remember what that was...

I chose C as well, but the answer slips my mind.

I chose C too it was something about healthy and eating fruits and vegetables yet it said they aren't really causing it, it could just be a correlation.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 06:53:28 PM
19. Humans not being able to evolve with dinosaurs/climate zone
Answer: If they lived in different climate zones

Anyone remember more options on this one?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 06:58:27 PM
19. Humans not being able to evolve with dinosaurs/climate zone
Answer: If they lived in different climate zones

Anyone remember more options on this one?

I don't even remember this question.  Could it have been in the experimental?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: 245 on June 12, 2006, 06:59:55 PM
For the unconscious/intelligence one, I think the correct answer was something like "intelligence does not require consciousness." Does anyone remember that specific choice? If that was really a choice, then that one would have to be correct. If intelligence required consciousness, then by proving animals have intelligence, one would have also proven that animals have consciousness.

Here's a nugget, guys...parallel reasoning, something like #21 in one of the real LR sections:

Mathematics and music educations, music develops math skills, not necessarily because a intellectually nurturing home could be the cause of both. I think the correct answer was the kids with difficulty in class that could have undiagnosed hearing problems. The pattern to replicate was that there could be some third factor that influences both of the identified factors. This was probably the toughest LR question on the test. There were several other answer choices that were really attractive. But I think the kids in class one was the only one that hit on the 3rd factor influencing two previously identified ones.

Yeah, but in that case, the reason given only explained the first part, which then caused the poor grades.  The bad hearing isn't causing the bad grades, per se - it's causing the failure to pay attention, which in turn causes the bad grades.  I answered C, but I can't for the life of me remember what that was...

I chose C as well, but the answer slips my mind.

I chose C too it was something about healthy and eating fruits and vegetables yet it said they aren't really causing it, it could just be a correlation.

I think the answer was (A), the one about bad hearing causing poor grades.  Although (C) said there was a correlation, it did not elaborate on a potential cause of the correlation, which was mentioned in the stimulus to the question and thus, also should have been paralleled.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 33 TO GO!
Post by: paigeroo on June 12, 2006, 07:01:01 PM
To whomever is updating the master list:

For #17, I think that answer is correct, but I recall something about being "medically effective," not just effective.

Thanks Duhon, I'll make a note of that and I think you mean #18.

And to think, paige, you were worried about there not being a p-m!  Turns out people are too fried to remember the details of most questions anyways. 

Agreed about the predators and the birds, btw. 

I know right?!  Silly me...  ;)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 07:01:49 PM
For the unconscious/intelligence one, I think the correct answer was something like "intelligence does not require consciousness." Does anyone remember that specific choice? If that was really a choice, then that one would have to be correct. If intelligence required consciousness, then by proving animals have intelligence, one would have also proven that animals have consciousness.

Here's a nugget, guys...parallel reasoning, something like #21 in one of the real LR sections:

Mathematics and music educations, music develops math skills, not necessarily because a intellectually nurturing home could be the cause of both. I think the correct answer was the kids with difficulty in class that could have undiagnosed hearing problems. The pattern to replicate was that there could be some third factor that influences both of the identified factors. This was probably the toughest LR question on the test. There were several other answer choices that were really attractive. But I think the kids in class one was the only one that hit on the 3rd factor influencing two previously identified ones.

Yeah, but in that case, the reason given only explained the first part, which then caused the poor grades.  The bad hearing isn't causing the bad grades, per se - it's causing the failure to pay attention, which in turn causes the bad grades.  I answered C, but I can't for the life of me remember what that was...

I chose C as well, but the answer slips my mind.

I chose C too it was something about healthy and eating fruits and vegetables yet it said they aren't really causing it, it could just be a correlation.

I think the answer was (A), the one about bad hearing causing poor grades.  Although (C) said there was a correlation, it did not elaborate on a potential cause of the correlation, which was mentioned in the stimulus to the question and thus, also should have been paralleled.

FWIW, I also put A, about the hearing.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 07:03:11 PM
argh, that was confusing.  i put that problem-solving or whatever requires intelligence.  but that's probably wrong.  the reason i didn't pick either of the two with both intelligence and consciousness was that one just seemed to be restating the conclusion (consciousness doesn't imply intelligence) and the other was the opposite of the conclusion (i.e. intelligence implies consciousness).  geez, maybe i didn't do that well on this exam after all...

edit: this one was not experimental.  i had two LGs.

i did the exact same thing... there were three answers in the middle that had to do with intelligence and consciousness and i thought there was something wrong with all of them...


from the master list:

7.  Family members not doing things that would harm people they love
Answer: Assume some moral obligations overrule others

19. Humans not being able to evolve with dinosaurs/climate zone
Answer: If they lived in different climate zones

21. Whether computers will replace TVs
Answer: Most people who have computers already have TVs

i don't remember these three at all - can someone describe them in more detail?  maybe they were on the experimental?  i don't remember the one about the professors talking smack either.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 07:06:05 PM
argh, that was confusing.  i put that problem-solving or whatever requires intelligence.  but that's probably wrong.  the reason i didn't pick either of the two with both intelligence and consciousness was that one just seemed to be restating the conclusion (consciousness doesn't imply intelligence) and the other was the opposite of the conclusion (i.e. intelligence implies consciousness).  geez, maybe i didn't do that well on this exam after all...

edit: this one was not experimental.  i had two LGs.

i did the exact same thing... there were three answers in the middle that had to do with intelligence and consciousness and i thought there was something wrong with all of them...


from the master list:

7.  Family members not doing things that would harm people they love
Answer: Assume some moral obligations overrule others

19. Humans not being able to evolve with dinosaurs/climate zone
Answer: If they lived in different climate zones

21. Whether computers will replace TVs
Answer: Most people who have computers already have TVs

i don't remember these three at all - can someone describe them in more detail?  maybe they were on the experimental?  i don't remember the one about the professors talking smack either.

I don't remember any of these either - can we get confirmation they're exp.?  If so, I move we remove them from the list...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 07:06:58 PM
argh, that was confusing.  i put that problem-solving or whatever requires intelligence.  but that's probably wrong.  the reason i didn't pick either of the two with both intelligence and consciousness was that one just seemed to be restating the conclusion (consciousness doesn't imply intelligence) and the other was the opposite of the conclusion (i.e. intelligence implies consciousness).  geez, maybe i didn't do that well on this exam after all...

edit: this one was not experimental.  i had two LGs.

i did the exact same thing... there were three answers in the middle that had to do with intelligence and consciousness and i thought there was something wrong with all of them...


from the master list:

7.  Family members not doing things that would harm people they love
Answer: Assume some moral obligations overrule others

19. Humans not being able to evolve with dinosaurs/climate zone
Answer: If they lived in different climate zones

21. Whether computers will replace TVs
Answer: Most people who have computers already have TVs

i don't remember these three at all - can someone describe them in more detail?  maybe they were on the experimental?  i don't remember the one about the professors talking smack either.

YES!  I dont' recognize any of these three either.  It might be helpful if ppl who do recognize them could tell us if they had 3 LR sections.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 07:08:15 PM
I also do not remember 7,19, and 21 or I got them all wrong.

My order was LR-G-G-LR-RC

so if yours was the same maybe they were experimental
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 07:08:50 PM
For #7, is that the one about turning in family members to the police?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 07:10:32 PM
For #7, is that the one about turning in family members to the police?

hmmm im thinking hard im pretty fried but im pretty sure i had nothing like that.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: zhyue on June 12, 2006, 07:11:10 PM
I do no remember any of these three and I had three LR sections. LR LR LG LR RC
I also do not remember 7,19, and 21 or I got them all wrong.

My order was LR-G-G-LR-RC

so if yours was the same maybe they were experimental

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 38 TO GO!
Post by: nu07 on June 12, 2006, 07:12:39 PM

YES!  I dont' recognize any of these three either.  It might be helpful if ppl who do recognize them could tell us if they had 3 LR sections.

I didn't have the family/police one but i did have the dinosaur one and the computer/tv one.  i had 3 LR sections so the family/police one must have been exp., and there must have been more than one exp. LR section circulating
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 07:15:00 PM
I had the exp LR section.

I definitely remember something about a moral dilemma between turning a family member into the police or not, and I really think that's what #7 is referring to.

While on that thought, I also remember a moral dilemma for doctors doing what's best for a patient contrasted with the patient's right to hear everything.

If no one else remembers either of these, they're exp.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 07:15:36 PM
I had the exp LR section.

I definitely remember something about a moral dilemma between turning a family member into the police or not, and I really think that's what #7 is referring to.

While on that thought, I also remember a moral dilemma for doctors doing what's best for a patient contrasted with the patient's right to hear everything.

If no one else remembers either of these, they're exp.

i had the moral dilemma one with the doctors and the patients and my experimental was rc, so that one's legit.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 07:16:30 PM
Ok, Im convinced there had to be 2 different LR experiementals. I had 3 sections and I dont remember anything about turning a family member into police, or a monkey in the moutains, or anxiety and nightlights, etc.

Is there precedent for 2 different experimentals of the same type?!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 12, 2006, 07:17:09 PM
Can anybody confirm that the "role of the statment" question had a 'conclusion' answer?  I can't remember what the original statement said.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 07:18:05 PM
I had the exp LR section.

I definitely remember something about a moral dilemma between turning a family member into the police or not, and I really think that's what #7 is referring to.

While on that thought, I also remember a moral dilemma for doctors doing what's best for a patient contrasted with the patient's right to hear everything.

If no one else remembers either of these, they're exp.

I remember the doctor question, but not the family member.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 07:18:56 PM
I had the exp LR section.

I definitely remember something about a moral dilemma between turning a family member into the police or not, and I really think that's what #7 is referring to.

While on that thought, I also remember a moral dilemma for doctors doing what's best for a patient contrasted with the patient's right to hear everything.

If no one else remembers either of these, they're exp.

I remember the doctor question, but not the family member.

Me too. The doctor one answer I put was "basic rights can't be denied" or something to that effect. Dont remember a police one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 07:23:55 PM
I had the exp LR section.

I definitely remember something about a moral dilemma between turning a family member into the police or not, and I really think that's what #7 is referring to.

While on that thought, I also remember a moral dilemma for doctors doing what's best for a patient contrasted with the patient's right to hear everything.

If no one else remembers either of these, they're exp.


I remember the doctor question, but not the family member.

Me too. The doctor one answer I put was "basic rights can't be denied" or something to that effect. Dont remember a police one.


That's what I put for the doctor one, too.:)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 07:28:53 PM
i only had 2 lr, rc was my exp, and i don't remember any of those.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 07:29:05 PM
Ok so you guys want me to remove #7- the police question, #19 the evolution and climate, and #21 the computers and TV's question.  Can I get this seconded thirded and fourthed?  :D  Preferably by those who only had 2 LR sections. 



I don't remember them, so I'm hoping they weren't there.;) and my Ex. was RC.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 07:31:02 PM
Only had two LR, and my experimental was LG. Do not remember any questions about evolution or climate, the police, etc.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 07:34:40 PM
Maybe this has been discussed before, but #5 on the list seems a bit off to me.  Wasn't the answer more like, 'just because nature is nonlinear (etc) doesn't mean the evaluation of it has to be nonlinear, etc'?  I know I'm not phrasing it well, but some will know what I mean...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Cantillon on June 12, 2006, 07:39:33 PM
Most computer programmers are highly paid

answer:
Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 12, 2006, 07:39:47 PM
fabric softner question, flaw
answer the advertisement is flawed because it failed to consider if testers were exsposed to different kinds of fabric softner

Ectrepenuers (spelling?) question, cannot be true
it had all, and most in it, and had to deal with succesfull ectrepenurs who worked more then 18 hours a day, time for leisure, and ones who were happy
I think the answer was A somehing like all who are successfull are not happy, or something it definitely started with the word all

Some question about a coffee shop with prices of beans increasing, it had an either or structure, like either they sell non coffee products or something,
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 07:40:04 PM
k lets see if im ringing any bells.  the tough lr section... question 18 or 19 in it(somewhere around there) was the one with the new age philosopher and how science doesn't work blah blah because it breaks up organic structures or something like that.  it was on the bottom right of the page.  i think we are missing all the questions around it... i remember because those 2-3 pages were the worst of the entire test for me, and this is the only question i really remember from it.  is this ringing any bells for anyone?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 07:40:53 PM
fabric softner question, flaw
answer the advertisement is flawed because it failed to consider if testers were exsposed to different kinds of fabric softner


Some question about a coffee shop with prices of beans increasing, it had an either or structure, like either they sell non coffee products or something,

i think they are both experimental... i only had 2 lr and don't remember either.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 07:41:05 PM
fabric softner question, flaw
answer the advertisement is flawed because it failed to consider if testers were exsposed to different kinds of fabric softner


Some question about a coffee shop with prices of beans increasing, it had an either or structure, like either they sell non coffee products or something,

Both experimentals, i think...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 07:41:32 PM
Not sure if this helps. . .

but I am relatively sure we dont have any answers from the begininning of either section

Also. . .

again nitpicking the already made answers BUT I thought that for the DRs and RIGHTS question had a different answer:  It was ridiculous but the one that said: humans have rights and objects do not.  and it made sense to me at the time.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 07:43:32 PM
fabric softner question, flaw
answer the advertisement is flawed because it failed to consider if testers were exsposed to different kinds of fabric softner


Some question about a coffee shop with prices of beans increasing, it had an either or structure, like either they sell non coffee products or something,

I believe these were experimental.

Most computer programmers are highly paid

answer:
Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

will someone second this response?

I think that's what I put.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 07:44:02 PM
Most computer programmers are highly paid

answer:
Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

will someone second this response?

I agree.  It seemed almost too simple, esp in the A spot, but I think it was right.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 07:44:18 PM
i think this one was wrong, actually.  the stimulus was something like... most of xxx's staff = computer programmers... most computer programmers are highly paid... therefore, at least one of xxx's EMPLOYEES (not computer programmers) are highly paid.  this answer choice states gardeners, instead of classmates.

Most computer programmers are highly paid

answer:
Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

will someone second this response?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 07:44:37 PM
i think thats what i picked, but id need to hear another option or two to be sure.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: strivergirl on June 12, 2006, 07:45:39 PM
i fifth this
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 07:46:16 PM
Ok, I'm trying to think of new questions, but my mind is addled.;)

On the "tough" LR there was a parallel reasoning Q which I think was #23.  The last answer choice was about a painter and his reputation, although that's not the one I put. I'm so sorry for how vague this is, lol, but maybe it will jog someone's memory.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 07:48:33 PM
It had to do with selling paintings and their price or something, but I don't remember the answer itself.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 12, 2006, 07:51:07 PM
Fur coats question, principal
The couple picked the bottle of wine that they thought would impress people, even though their faborite tasted better and was cheaper
(I think this was the first question...but it may have been the first in the experiemental section)

Antilock breaks question, resolve
I picked the one about people who have antilock breaks not wearing seatbelts
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: cjc167 on June 12, 2006, 07:51:47 PM
Quote from: nixon plays checkers on Today at 09:03:41 PM
Quote from: nu07 on Today at 08:59:50 PM
Did anyone have a LR question about some woman who has to disclose her finances if she meets some two-part condition (like she has to either be on the board of some company as well as something else)?  I'm pretty sure that this was #25 of a 26 question section.  I think the answer had something to do with the fact that even though she doesn't meet the condition, she might have to disclose her finances anyway for some other reason.

I had this one.  *moves closer to the fax machine*  I'm not sure what I chose, do you remember any more of it?  It seemed like she didn't meet EITHER of the conditions set

She didn't but the idea was there could be OTHER reasons she'd have to disclose. If A or B she has to disclose. But what if C would force her to disclose (even if it was unstated). It didnt say A and B were the ONLY reasons.

Does anybody remember the question and answer in greater detail?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 07:52:21 PM
If I remember correctly, the one involving paintings and prices was a parallel reasoning question, and the stem had to do with an ironic situation where allocating harsher penalties for crimes could sometimes result in less deterrence because juries become less willing to convict. I can't remember the other answer choices though.

I also put the seatbelt one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 07:52:59 PM
Fur coats or whatever was in experimental. For ABS, I also put the seatbelt one.

For the disclosure question, I put "There is no other reason besides her association that would require her disclosure" or something.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 07:53:07 PM
Fur coats question, principal
The couple picked the bottle of wine that they thought would impress people, even though their faborite tasted better and was cheaper
(I think this was the first question...but it may have been the first in the experiemental section)

Antilock breaks question, resolve
I picked the one about people who have antilock breaks not wearing seatbelts

Fur coats and wine - I think - are both exp.  But anti-lock breaks is right on.  I said the same about the seatbelts.  Not a great answer, but the other ones sucked.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 07:53:55 PM
For the parallel question about criminal sentencing, I put the one that had to do with a new medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: LSATisKillingMe on June 12, 2006, 07:54:00 PM
I put A for that Mary question... because it said something about computer technicians (or some computer whatever) are getting a good salary... therefore at least some employees are getting good salaries... it went from specific to general... just like mary's classmates... it went from gardners to persons... i think... (but I had a little to drink now)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 07:54:15 PM
If I remember correctly, it was a parallel reasoning question, and the stem had to do with an ironic situation where allocating harsher penalties for crimes could sometimes result in less deterrence because juries become less willing to convict. I can't remember the answer choices though.

Yes, that's the one.

Antilock breaks, I picked seatbelts.  The Wine and coats were def. experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 12, 2006, 07:54:47 PM
Speaking of harsher penalties that reminds me of another crime question

crime rates question, crime rates are down but people are more anxious, resolve
I picked the media are overeproting crime stories
but there was another possible answer that I considered
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 07:54:57 PM
For the parallel question about criminal sentencing, I put the one that had to do with a new medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

Ok, I picked that too.  I think it was C?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 07:56:15 PM
If I remember correctly, the one involving paintings and prices was a parallel reasoning question, and the stem had to do with an ironic situation where allocating harsher penalties for crimes could sometimes result in less deterrence because juries become less willing to convict. I can't remember the other answer choices though.

i think it was C also.  what was the rest of the answer?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 07:56:58 PM
Speaking of harsher penalties that reminds me of another crime question

crime rates question, crime rates are down but people are more anxious, resolve
I picked the media are overeproting crime stories
but there was another possible answer that I considered

Yes, this is another one that hasn't been mentioned.  I THINK i said that the media is overreporting also. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 07:57:36 PM
Speaking of harsher penalties that reminds me of another crime question

crime rates question, crime rates are down but people are more anxious, resolve
I picked the media are overeproting crime stories
but there was another possible answer that I considered

I think I also picked that one.  I know I picked one about violent crime.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 07:57:44 PM
Speaking of harsher penalties that reminds me of another crime question

crime rates question, crime rates are down but people are more anxious, resolve
I picked the media are overeproting crime stories
but there was another possible answer that I considered

for the crime rates question i also picked the answer that sed the news had picked up reports on VIOLENT crimes, that was the answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 07:57:49 PM
Yeah, it was C.

It said that a new medical procedure designed to cure a disease might not save lives because of an increased risk during the procedure.

I also picked the one about the media reporting twice as many violent crime things.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 12, 2006, 07:58:18 PM
on the crime rates question most of the other answer choices seemed crappy,
I remember one choice about people who tend to be anxious about crime tend to live in areas of higher crime rates
one other choice definitely also mentioned the media
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 29 TO GO!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 07:59:48 PM
#24 on the 26 question section was parallel reasoning, I put A.

Also, I put E on #26, not sure if those are helpful

PAIGEROO--what is meant my the #21 explanation I have no idea what you are saying.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:00:19 PM
Yeah, it was C.

It said that a new medical procedure designed to cure a disease might not save lives because of an increased risk during the procedure.

I also picked the one about the media reporting twice as many violent crime things.

I'm fairly sure I didn't choose the medical procedure one--does anyone remember other choices besides the paintings and the procedure?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 08:01:25 PM
I was confident in the answer about the medical procedure. It's the only one of the parallel reasonings where something designed to have an effect might not actually create that effect, but rather, the opposite.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 08:02:33 PM
i didnt either... i picked one of the ones above it (the disease one was like c or d i think).  can't remember what it was though.

Yeah, it was C.

It said that a new medical procedure designed to cure a disease might not save lives because of an increased risk during the procedure.

I also picked the one about the media reporting twice as many violent crime things.

I'm fairly sure I didn't choose the medical procedure one--does anyone remember other choices besides the paintings and the procedure?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:03:46 PM
Does anyone remember a question about mercury levels in the wings of bird fossils from 1880 versus birds today? It could be experimental, but I remember I chose the answer that had something to do with the fossilization process reducing the level of mercury or something.

I also remember a question that had something to do with veterinarians and their reasons for entering veterinary medicine--it mentioned a love of animals and skill at biology or something.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 12, 2006, 08:04:11 PM
14. Music/Math Parallel Reasoning question
Answer: not paying attention/poor class performance/bad hearing

Is this the overall consensus?  I have heard solid arguments on the other thread for C as well.  Just an FYI.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 08:04:41 PM
If I remember correctly, the one involving paintings and prices was a parallel reasoning question, and the stem had to do with an ironic situation where allocating harsher penalties for crimes could sometimes result in less deterrence because juries become less willing to convict. I can't remember the other answer choices though.

I also put the seatbelt one.

The key to this question was remembering that there are two options, and that an increase in one would lead to a decrease in the other.  There was only one answer that satisfied this pattern.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: JuneLSATtaker on June 12, 2006, 08:05:27 PM
Ectrepenuers (spelling?) question, cannot be true
it had all, and most in it, and had to deal with succesfull ectrepenurs who worked more then 18 hours a day, time for leisure, and ones who were happy
I think the answer was A somehing like all who are successfull are not happy, or something it definitely started with the word all

It was something like:
Most successful entrepreneurs work 18+ hours/day, and all ?happy? ones work less than 18 hours/day, because no one who works 18 hour/day has leisure time.

What cannot be true? my answer: there are some happy entrepreneurs who work 18+ hours/day
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:07:11 PM
Ectrepenuers (spelling?) question, cannot be true
it had all, and most in it, and had to deal with succesfull ectrepenurs who worked more then 18 hours a day, time for leisure, and ones who were happy
I think the answer was A somehing like all who are successfull are not happy, or something it definitely started with the word all

It was something like:
Most successful entrepreneurs work 18+ hours/day, and all ?happy? ones work less than 18 hours/day, because no one who works 18 hour/day has leisure time.

What cannot be true? my answer: there are some happy entrepreneurs who work 18+ hours/day

I second this.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 08:08:00 PM
Does anyone remember a question about mercury levels in the wings of bird fossils from 1880 versus birds today? It could be experimental, but I remember I chose the answer that had something to do with the fossilization process reducing the level of mercury or something.

I also remember a question that had something to do with veterinarians and their reasons for entering veterinary medicine--it mentioned a love of animals and skill at biology or something.

I believe that the veterinary one was an all of these could be true except question, and I put an answer about a veterinarian not really loving animals.


Ectrepenuers (spelling?) question, cannot be true
it had all, and most in it, and had to deal with succesfull ectrepenurs who worked more then 18 hours a day, time for leisure, and ones who were happy
I think the answer was A somehing like all who are successfull are not happy, or something it definitely started with the word all

It was something like:
Most successful entrepreneurs work 18+ hours/day, and all ?happy? ones work less than 18 hours/day, because no one who works 18 hour/day has leisure time.

What cannot be true? my answer: there are some happy entrepreneurs who work 18+ hours/day

That's what I put, I think.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 12, 2006, 08:08:35 PM
Ohh I thought of one... It has to do with the inside of dinosaur bones... Anybody else remember this?  It may have been on my experimental section.

And another has to deal with animal (rat?) blood in the experiment?  Again, this may be in section #2.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 08:10:12 PM
Merc level was exp. Dino bones was exp. Rat blood was exp.

Vet answer I believe was that he did not love animals or something to that effect.

Seconded for all the other answers on this page, including happy entrepreneuers working 18+,

I put down "Not paying attention/hearing" whatever for the ADD one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:11:40 PM
Ohh I thought of one... It has to do with the inside of dinosaur bones... Anybody else remember this?  It may have been on my experimental section.

And another has to deal with animal (rat?) blood in the experiment?  Again, this may be in section #2.


I don't remember either of these, and I had 3 LR sections, so maybe they're experimental?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: JuneLSATtaker on June 12, 2006, 08:12:03 PM
If I remember correctly, it was a parallel reasoning question, and the stem had to do with an ironic situation where allocating harsher penalties for crimes could sometimes result in less deterrence because juries become less willing to convict. I can't remember the answer choices though.

Yes, that's the one.

Antilock breaks, I picked seatbelts.  The Wine and coats were def. experimental.

edited:
Wasn't the seatbelt/antilock breaks one actually the stem of a different question?  Something like:
Antilock breaks reduce the chances of multi-car accidents, but a safety expert asks that they be taken out to save lives.

What explains this discrepency?  I put, people are less likely to use seatbelts in cars with antilock breaks.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 08:12:29 PM
14. Music/Math Parallel Reasoning question
Answer: not paying attention/poor class performance/bad hearing

Is this the overall consensus?  I have heard solid arguments on the other thread for C as well.  Just an FYI.

Grey, I'm still with you on the fruits and vegetables over the lack of hearing issue.  I'm going to be stubborn about it until somebody convinces me otherwise.  

Dinosaur bones is exp., i think.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Futballer on June 12, 2006, 08:12:46 PM
ah yes, mercury levels in feathers. I was torn between two answers. I'm not sure if it was on the exp section or not. I think I put something about the feathers being damaged during storage effectings the merc. lvls. Hopefully I'm not wrong :(
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Eli on June 12, 2006, 08:13:01 PM
I put down "Not paying attention/hearing" whatever for the ADD one.

was this the ADD and sugar level increasing adreniline question? what were your responses for that one?  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Futballer on June 12, 2006, 08:13:58 PM
Yes, the anti lock breaks give a false sense of security where people don't wear seat belts.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 12, 2006, 08:14:05 PM
I agree about the vetrenarian question, it was a cannot be true, or could be true EXCEPT question

I also picked the answer that said something like there are renowned veterarians who feel no affection for animals

Mercury levels in wings question,assumption
I also picked there is nothing in the preserving process that could decress the level of mercury


Also, from another thread
humans, animals,intelligence and consciouness question
I picked something like intelligence does not imply consciousness
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 08:14:50 PM
I put down "Not paying attention/hearing" whatever for the ADD one.

was this the ADD and sugar level increasing adreniline question? what were your responses for that one?  


He's mixing up two diff questions.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:15:38 PM
I put down "Not paying attention/hearing" whatever for the ADD one.

was this the ADD and sugar level increasing adreniline question? what were your responses for that one?  


Haha, no there were two ADD ones. I didn't realize this until now. One was a parallel reasoning where the answere had to do with hearing, and the other was a correlation between ADD and sugar where the answer was that sugar exacerbated ADD (NOT caused ADD).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 08:16:38 PM
Eli, yes, it was. I put that adrenaline exacerbated ADD.

The hearing/not paying attention one wasn't explicitly ADD, was it?; I think it was simply people who did not pay attention in school.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 08:16:58 PM
22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

Is this concensus? I remeber there were two close answers

A. In order to be ____ you need two things, quality thesis paper, and time working on the paper.  But, IF you spend too much time working on the paper, the quality decreases.



C o D   New Medical Procedure to treat disease not saving more lives BECAUSE  new procedure has "slightly" higher risk. Thus this procedure does not save lives.   

Whats wrong with A compared to the concensus answer????
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 08:18:17 PM
ahh yeah that's the one.  im pretty sure i picked a.

22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

Is this concensus? I remeber there were two close answers

A. In order to be ____ you need two things, quality thesis paper, and time working on the paper.  But, IF you spend too much time working on the paper, the quality decreases.



C o D   New Medical Procedure to treat disease not saving more lives BECAUSE  new procedure has "slightly" higher risk. Thus this procedure does not save lives.   

Whats wrong with A compared to the concensus answer????
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 08:18:27 PM
22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

Is this concensus? I remeber there were two close answers

A. In order to be ____ you need two things, quality thesis paper, and time working on the paper.  But, IF you spend too much time working on the paper, the quality decreases.



C o D   New Medical Procedure to treat disease not saving more lives BECAUSE  new procedure has "slightly" higher risk. Thus this procedure does not save lives.   

Whats wrong with A compared to the concensus answer????

yes!  I picked A!  thank you for typing up the answer.  I don't know why A would be wrong
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:19:06 PM
22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

Is this concensus? I remeber there were two close answers

A. In order to be ____ you need two things, quality thesis paper, and time working on the paper.  But, IF you spend too much time working on the paper, the quality decreases.



C o D   New Medical Procedure to treat disease not saving more lives BECAUSE  new procedure has "slightly" higher risk. Thus this procedure does not save lives.   

Whats wrong with A compared to the concensus answer????

yes!  I picked A!  thank you for typing up the answer.  I don't know why A would be wrong

YES! This is what I put also!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 12, 2006, 08:19:41 PM
14. Music/Math Parallel Reasoning question
Answer: not paying attention/poor class performance/bad hearing

Is this the overall consensus?  I have heard solid arguments on the other thread for C as well.  Just an FYI.

Grey, I'm still with you on the fruits and vegetables over the lack of hearing issue.  I'm going to be stubborn about it until somebody convinces me otherwise.  

Dinosaur bones is exp., i think.


Yes, fruits and vegetales made the sounder parallel for me... But I guess we will see come July!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 08:19:53 PM
lol A with the sudden comeback!!!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 08:20:56 PM
Anyone yet mention the question that was either a PR or Principle about how letting someone live their life with more freedom could lead to death and the answer I believe was letting a dog roam the streets freely would make him happy but increase his risk of being killed by a car.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 08:22:14 PM
Anyone yet mention the question that was either a PR or Principle about how letting someone live their life with more freedom could lead to death and the answer I believe was letting a dog roam the streets freely would make him happy but increase his risk of being killed by a car.

I think this was experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 08:22:24 PM
ok the fruits question and the seatbelt question need to be hashed out more... what the consensus for both?  Also, neither one was experimental right?

Definitely not.  I'm a 2 LG person, and I had both questions.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:23:21 PM
Does anyone remember one about a sports drink for athletes which contains sugar--the question talked about dehydration and one of the answers talked about the stomach or something? It was one of the very last ones on the first LR section, and it killed me--I put E (something about hydration being due mostly to water already in the bloodstream) and I think it was wrong, but time was called.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 08:23:45 PM
Anyone yet mention the question that was either a PR or Principle about how letting someone live their life with more freedom could lead to death and the answer I believe was letting a dog roam the streets freely would make him happy but increase his risk of being killed by a car.

I think this was experimental.

This one had to have been exp.  I think I'd remember a dog being hit by a car...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 08:24:25 PM
Does anyone remember one about a sports drink for athletes which contains sugar--the question talked about dehydration and one of the answers talked about the stomach or something? It was one of the very last ones on the first LR section, and it killed me--I put E (something about hydration being due mostly to water already in the bloodstream) and I think it was wrong, but time was called.

Yeah, I remember that one, and I had no idea what the answer was.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 08:25:16 PM
Does anyone remember one about a sports drink for athletes which contains sugar--the question talked about dehydration and one of the answers talked about the stomach or something? It was one of the very last ones on the first LR section, and it killed me--I put E (something about hydration being due mostly to water already in the bloodstream) and I think it was wrong, but time was called.

Oh yeah! And how it helps with muscle fatigue but the sugar causes the water to go to the stomach or something increasing dehydration? I didnt get this one. I think it was what must not be true and I chose something along the lines of "the process that helps muscle fatigue also helps dehydration". I cant remember real well and I know it was hard.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 08:25:23 PM
I didn't put A because it seemed to have a bunch of extraneous stuff about the academic career and all that. It seems like a viable choice, but I remember specifically choosing the other one over it. I don't think A was stated as analagously as you put it.

For athletes and sugar, I put something about the muscles or something. I think it was near the beginning and not E.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 08:26:19 PM
22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

Is this concensus? I remeber there were two close answers

A. In order to be ____ you need two things, quality thesis paper, and time working on the paper.  But, IF you spend too much time working on the paper, the quality decreases.



C o D   New Medical Procedure to treat disease not saving more lives BECAUSE  new procedure has "slightly" higher risk. Thus this procedure does not save lives.   

Whats wrong with A compared to the concensus answer????

yes!  I picked A!  thank you for typing up the answer.  I don't know why A would be wrong

YES! This is what I put also!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :D ;D ;) ??? 8) :o
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 08:26:40 PM
Does anyone remember one about a sports drink for athletes which contains sugar--the question talked about dehydration and one of the answers talked about the stomach or something? It was one of the very last ones on the first LR section, and it killed me--I put E (something about hydration being due mostly to water already in the bloodstream) and I think it was wrong, but time was called.

Ugh - this one hurt me too.  I said something about something that anything that could cause dehydration would exacerbate (the word of the day) the situation.  No idea if that is at all accurate.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 08:27:59 PM
There was a few one-stem--two question combos in the 26 question section, can anyone remember any of them?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 08:28:38 PM
im pretty sure i put that one too... it was a each of the following could be true EXCEPT i think... i put B i'm pretty sure, which was that drinking something that helps with muscle fatigue *invariably* leads to dehydration.... now that i think about it that's not a good answer but the other ones look terrible.  does this ring any bells or am i way off?


Does anyone remember one about a sports drink for athletes which contains sugar--the question talked about dehydration and one of the answers talked about the stomach or something? It was one of the very last ones on the first LR section, and it killed me--I put E (something about hydration being due mostly to water already in the bloodstream) and I think it was wrong, but time was called.

Oh yeah! And how it helps with muscle fatigue but the sugar causes the water to go to the stomach or something increasing dehydration? I didnt get this one. I think it was what must not be true and I chose something along the lines of "the process that helps muscle fatigue also helps dehydration". I cant remember real well and I know it was hard.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 12, 2006, 08:29:04 PM
Does anyone remember one about a sports drink for athletes which contains sugar--the question talked about dehydration and one of the answers talked about the stomach or something? It was one of the very last ones on the first LR section, and it killed me--I put E (something about hydration being due mostly to water already in the bloodstream) and I think it was wrong, but time was called.

Ditto!  I chose E as well, it seemed the least wrong.  That stimulus was a mess.  All I could think of was Gatorade and Parrot Bay Rum.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 08:29:24 PM
Does anyone remember one about a sports drink for athletes which contains sugar--the question talked about dehydration and one of the answers talked about the stomach or something? It was one of the very last ones on the first LR section, and it killed me--I put E (something about hydration being due mostly to water already in the bloodstream) and I think it was wrong, but time was called.

Ugh - this one hurt me too.  I said something about something that anything that could cause dehydration would exacerbate (the word of the day) the situation.  No idea if that is at all accurate. 

CREDITED!! *RINGS GONG*  It said that only in SOME cases does it exacerbate dehydration, NOT all (invariably implies ALL).  paigeroo, add this one!!! ;D :D ::)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 28 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 08:29:37 PM
yeah now i remember "invariably exacerbates dehydration"

Does anyone remember one about a sports drink for athletes which contains sugar--the question talked about dehydration and one of the answers talked about the stomach or something? It was one of the very last ones on the first LR section, and it killed me--I put E (something about hydration being due mostly to water already in the bloodstream) and I think it was wrong, but time was called.

Ugh - this one hurt me too.  I said something about something that anything that could cause dehydration would exacerbate (the word of the day) the situation.  No idea if that is at all accurate.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 08:30:06 PM
I think the Mercury question was EXPERIMENTAL.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:30:14 PM
I also remember a devilishly hard question that had a long and very complicated stem--very theoretical phrase heavy--and the question was, "what purpose does the phrase XXXXXX serve in the argument?" The various answers I can't fully remember, but I do know B and D were both something like "as a premise to the conclusion that XXXXXX[very convoluted phrases]". It was on the first LR section I think.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: dcarealsattaker on June 12, 2006, 08:30:26 PM
First post here.  Re: the contentious question on sophisticated tools, I picked the advanced weapons answer because it most directly countered the conclusion.  Weapons are tools for hunting, etc.  The dexterity response was close, but doesn't directly assess the toolmaking skill.

I haven't seen anyone bring this one up yet, but there was a question on heavy metals in landfills coming from circuit boards, etc.  Answer was that you shouldn't incinerate appliances with heavy metals in them or something.  Think it was an inference question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 12, 2006, 08:31:38 PM
I also remember the hydration/sports drink question
that was must not be true

I also picked something like something that helps muscle fatique leads to dehydration

Also
moderation question, point at issue
They disagree about what living a life of moderation requires
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:32:02 PM
First post here.  Re: the contentious question on sophisticated tools, I picked the advanced weapons answer because it most directly countered the conclusion.  Weapons are tools for hunting, etc.  The dexterity response was close, but doesn't directly assess the toolmaking skill.

I haven't seen anyone bring this one up yet, but there was a question on heavy metals in landfills coming from circuit boards, etc.  Answer was that you shouldn't incinerate appliances with heavy metals in them or something.  Think it was an inference question.

I chose that answer but was very very uncertain about it. Anyone else?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Electric Counterpoint on June 12, 2006, 08:32:14 PM
That was my answer as well. I wished it had been the obviously simple one about athletes not liking too-sugary drinks...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 08:32:31 PM
First post here.  Re: the contentious question on sophisticated tools, I picked the advanced weapons answer because it most directly countered the conclusion.  Weapons are tools for hunting, etc.  The dexterity response was close, but doesn't directly assess the toolmaking skill.

I haven't seen anyone bring this one up yet, but there was a question on heavy metals in landfills coming from circuit boards, etc.  Answer was that you shouldn't incinerate appliances with heavy metals in them or something.  Think it was an inference question.

I second both of those answers.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 08:32:35 PM
Also
moderation question, point at issue
They disagree about what living a life of moderation requires

seconded!!

I haven't seen anyone bring this one up yet, but there was a question on heavy metals in landfills coming from circuit boards, etc.  Answer was that you shouldn't incinerate appliances with heavy metals in them or something.  Think it was an inference question.

yes!  seconded!!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Saja on June 12, 2006, 08:32:47 PM
First post here.  Re: the contentious question on sophisticated tools, I picked the advanced weapons answer because it most directly countered the conclusion.  Weapons are tools for hunting, etc.  The dexterity response was close, but doesn't directly assess the toolmaking skill.

I haven't seen anyone bring this one up yet, but there was a question on heavy metals in landfills coming from circuit boards, etc.  Answer was that you shouldn't incinerate appliances with heavy metals in them or something.  Think it was an inference question.

I also put the question about not incinerating appliances with heavy metals, but I had a more difficult time with it than I should have.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:32:52 PM
I also remember the hydration/sports drink question
that was must not be true

I also picked something like something that helps muscle fatique leads to dehydration

Also
moderation question, point at issue
They disagree about what living a life of moderation requires

Bingo, I put that also.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 08:32:59 PM
First post here.  Re: the contentious question on sophisticated tools, I picked the advanced weapons answer because it most directly countered the conclusion.  Weapons are tools for hunting, etc.  The dexterity response was close, but doesn't directly assess the toolmaking skill.

I haven't seen anyone bring this one up yet, but there was a question on heavy metals in landfills coming from circuit boards, etc.  Answer was that you shouldn't incinerate appliances with heavy metals in them or something.  Think it was an inference question.

Yes, I got that too.

....*HEAVY METAL* throws up horns  8)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 08:34:16 PM
....*HEAVY METAL* throws up horns  8)

LOL!!!!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: dcarealsattaker on June 12, 2006, 08:34:32 PM
I had 2 LG sections...didn't have that mercury question on mine.  Experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 12, 2006, 08:34:51 PM

I haven't seen anyone bring this one up yet, but there was a question on heavy metals in landfills coming from circuit boards, etc.  Answer was that you shouldn't incinerate appliances with heavy metals in them or something.  Think it was an inference question.
[/quote]


third!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 26 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 08:34:56 PM
First post here.  Re: the contentious question on sophisticated tools, I picked the advanced weapons answer because it most directly countered the conclusion.  Weapons are tools for hunting, etc.  The dexterity response was close, but doesn't directly assess the toolmaking skill.

I haven't seen anyone bring this one up yet, but there was a question on heavy metals in landfills coming from circuit boards, etc.  Answer was that you shouldn't incinerate appliances with heavy metals in them or something.  Think it was an inference question.

Agree with incinerating heavy metals answer.

Also agree with discussed answer about moderation of life of moderation.

I got the mercury in feathers question, but I had LR experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 08:35:09 PM
For the eighth time, yes, Merc was experimental. :)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 08:35:52 PM
I think the Mercury question was EXPERIMENTAL.

harper you only had 2 lr sections... did you have it?

Yeah, I am almost positive that mercur in the wings was exp.  But HEAVY METAL is fair game.  Rock on!  I also said that you shouldn't burn that *&^%.  

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 08:36:11 PM
can you give more detail on the moderation question?  

I also remember the hydration/sports drink question
that was must not be true

I also picked something like something that helps muscle fatique leads to dehydration

Also
moderation question, point at issue
They disagree about what living a life of moderation requires
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 08:36:45 PM
Have we gone over, I believe a point at issue question, where speaker A says the only reason someone with a lot of wealth would want more is for prestige and and Speaker B disagrees and says it could be because they can use it to buy more stuff. And the answer I chose was they disagree about whether they only reason for the wealthy to want more money is for prestige or not. Ring any bells?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 08:38:02 PM
yeah that was one for sure it was early on in the section.  that was the only answer that even mentioned prestige in the appropriate context

Have we gone over, I believe a point at issue question, where speaker A says the only reason someone with a lot of wealth would want more is for prestige and and Speaker B disagrees and says it could be because they can use it to buy more stuff. And the answer I chose was they disagree about whether they only reason for the wealthy to want more money is for prestige or not. Ring any bells?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 08:38:13 PM
can you give more detail on the moderation question? 


some ridiculously pretentious convo between two doods: "Life in moderation is boring for x and y reasons", the other guy's retort: "But living always in moderation means you are living in the extreme of ALL Moderation, thus, you are not living in moderation!"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 08:38:44 PM
Yes, that was correct Rockbird.

I think the moderation one was experimental, as I can't recall any questions like it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 08:38:50 PM
can you give more detail on the moderation question? 


some ridiculously pretentious convo between two doods: "Life in moderation is boring for x and y reasons", the other guy's retort: "But living always in moderation means you are living in the extreme of ALL Moderation, thus, you are not living in moderation!"

Once again there HAD to be 2 different LR experimentals because I had 3 and dont remember this one either.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: kbb on June 12, 2006, 08:38:54 PM
that might have been experimental - i don't remember that at all.

can you give more detail on the moderation question? 


some ridiculously pretentious convo between two doods: "Life in moderation is boring for x and y reasons", the other guy's retort: "But living always in moderation means you are living in the extreme of ALL Moderation, thus, you are not living in moderation!"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 12, 2006, 08:39:04 PM
can you give more detail on the moderation question?  

The question was point at issue, so two speakers
The first said something like you live a life of moderation you never take chances, no fun etc.

The second said i disagree, when you really live a life of moderation you must be moderate in your moderation too.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: dcarealsattaker on June 12, 2006, 08:39:20 PM
I had the same answer on the prestige/wealth question.

I did not have the moderation question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 08:39:24 PM
can you give more detail on the moderation question?

Two people debating about living a life of moderation.
Second guy says living a life of moderation is itself in conflict with moderation, because you are living in moderation beyond moderation.

What do they disagree about?

I don't remember the answer. I remember it not being all that tough.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 08:39:37 PM
Have we gone over, I believe a point at issue question, where speaker A says the only reason someone with a lot of wealth would want more is for prestige and and Speaker B disagrees and says it could be because they can use it to buy more stuff. And the answer I chose was they disagree about whether they only reason for the wealthy to want more money is for prestige or not. Ring any bells?

second
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 08:39:55 PM
Have we gone over, I believe a point at issue question, where speaker A says the only reason someone with a lot of wealth would want more is for prestige and and Speaker B disagrees and says it could be because they can use it to buy more stuff. And the answer I chose was they disagree about whether they only reason for the wealthy to want more money is for prestige or not. Ring any bells?


Can you please mention briefly what some of the other possibilities were?  I don't remember this question.  As for the moderation, could have been experimental--I had 3 LR. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 12, 2006, 08:40:21 PM
22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

This is my answer, but I am hearing a lot of 'thesis' talk... Can anybody say for certainty?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Electric Counterpoint on June 12, 2006, 08:44:21 PM
22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

This is my answer, but I am hearing a lot of 'thesis' talk... Can anybody say for certainty?

I think the thesis one was the sexier answer, it was A) and everything, so it might have been a trap. I don't remember the medical choice, so I must not have considered it very strongly. If it was a trap, they got me.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:44:34 PM
22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

This is my answer, but I am hearing a lot of 'thesis' talk... Can anybody say for certainty?

I am all for the thesis one, because I see it as a case of extremes: increasing a penalty is good up to a point but too much can lead to less effectiveness just as increasing the amount of time you put in on your thesis is good up to a point but too much can lead to less acclaim (or whatever it was).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: should be packing on June 12, 2006, 08:46:01 PM
Have we gone over, I believe a point at issue question, where speaker A says the only reason someone with a lot of wealth would want more is for prestige and and Speaker B disagrees and says it could be because they can use it to buy more stuff. And the answer I chose was they disagree about whether they only reason for the wealthy to want more money is for prestige or not. Ring any bells?


Can you please mention briefly what some of the other possibilities were?  I don't remember this question.  As for the moderation, could have been experimental--I had 3 LR. 

don't remember the other options but this question's definitely fair game--i had it with 2 LRs
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 08:47:03 PM
ANSWERS TO ADD/REMOVE FROM LIST:

ADD:

Prestige question:  debate is over whether or not prestige is why people want wealth.  Two people debate.

Heavy metals:  dangerous when incinerated

Hand tools:  weapons w/o standing get use

REMOVE:

Medidation: EXPERIMENTAL

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 08:47:09 PM
I am 75% that it was medical procedure, as I actually did a mini-diagram and spent a good bit of time on that one. I kind of feel like A was supposed to be the decoy, because it kind of was the same, but had a ton of extra crap. I liked the medical thing because it specifically said it was designed to save lives, just like they said that efficacy of detterence depends on the severity of the punishment and the likelihood of being punished. It then went on to say that increasing

A is designed to B.
A surprisingly actually does the opposite of B.

I just don't know if there was a premise in the first answer stating that working longer on one's thesis would actually help. Perhaps I just don't remember it. :\
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:47:25 PM
Have we gone over, I believe a point at issue question, where speaker A says the only reason someone with a lot of wealth would want more is for prestige and and Speaker B disagrees and says it could be because they can use it to buy more stuff. And the answer I chose was they disagree about whether they only reason for the wealthy to want more money is for prestige or not. Ring any bells?



Can you please mention briefly what some of the other possibilities were?  I don't remember this question.  As for the moderation, could have been experimental--I had 3 LR. 

don't remember the other options but this question's definitely fair game--i had it with 2 LRs
I remember the wealth and prestige and concurr with the answer. Don't remember any other options though.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 08:47:30 PM

don't remember the other options but this question's definitely fair game--i had it with 2 LRs

oh right, I mean, I believe it is fair game, I just forgot what the other options were.  anyone refresh my memory?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 08:49:20 PM
Can we get more detail on the one about entrepreneurs working 18 hours a day? The answer given here sounds like every answer choice provided all crammed together.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 12, 2006, 08:49:42 PM
22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

This is my answer, but I am hearing a lot of 'thesis' talk... Can anybody say for certainty?

I think the thesis one was the sexier answer, it was A) and everything, so it might have been a trap. I don't remember the medical choice, so I must not have considered it very strongly. If it was a trap, they got me.

I have to respect the fact that you used the word SEXIER when talking about a LR question.  Bravo.  But I am sticking with the medical procedure.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 08:50:41 PM

don't remember the other options but this question's definitely fair game--i had it with 2 LRs

oh right, I mean, I believe it is fair game, I just forgot what the other options were.  anyone refresh my memory?

Foggy - but it was something like "People only want money beyond what they need for basic needs for PRESTIGE."  Person B was all, "No they don't -- it's just useful to have extra money, whether you need it or not."

The answer had to do with whether prestige was important to people who had extra money.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 08:51:08 PM
12. Mythical half horse
Answer: The horse in their minds may not represent the horse in mythology

Does anyone have the other ACs for this question?  I remember the argument had something to do with a half human half horse thing.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 08:51:33 PM

1.   Beauty vs. art assumption question
Answer: The most beautiful things are the best art
Minority opinion: The assumption is simply that "the best" = "beautiful".
Was this Answer A?
This was # 16 on the 2nd LR, Does anyone remember three A’s in a row? 15, 16, 17



5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure

Any one remember any other answer choices???


6.  Computers/emotion/art
Answer: Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they can't produce great art.
There were two choices, A or D
A.   Computers can produce great art ONLY IF they can hold emotions
D.   Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they    can't produce great art.

I chose D, but cant seem to see why A is wrong.

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:53:41 PM
Can we get more detail on the one about entrepreneurs working 18 hours a day? The answer given here sounds like every answer choice provided all crammed together.

It was something like "successful entrepreneurs work 18+ hours a day, people who work 18+ hours a day have no time for leisure activities, no people who don't have time for leisure activities are happy" I could be way off, but the factors involved were happiness, leisure activities, entrepreneurs, and 18+ hour workdays.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 08:54:29 PM
I feel like we are going over a lot of the harder questions and missing the easy ones in the beginning, Id like to believe this is true or else im in trouble (haha)

Also, we havent really talked about any 2 part questions and there were at least 3 of them.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: dcarealsattaker on June 12, 2006, 08:54:34 PM
I went with the thesis answer for the pattern question.  As someone else said, it's a question of extremes of two characteristics leading to unintended consequences.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Cantillon on June 12, 2006, 08:55:25 PM
These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: sssyrup on June 12, 2006, 08:55:40 PM
Wow, you guys have amazing memory.

I remember a question on how news media trivializing with bad politician traits was not good for elections/politics. I think the answer was like 'politicians with bad character traits are not good/not bad for politics' or so.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:55:46 PM

1.   Beauty vs. art assumption question
Answer: The most beautiful things are the best art
Minority opinion: The assumption is simply that "the best" = "beautiful".
Was this Answer A?
This was # 16 on the 2nd LR, Does anyone remember three A’s in a row? 15, 16, 17



5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure

Any one remember any other answer choices???


6.  Computers/emotion/art
Answer: Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they can't produce great art.
There were two choices, A or D
A.   Computers can produce great art ONLY IF they can hold emotions
D.   Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they    can't produce great art.

I chose D, but cant seem to see why A is wrong.



I remember the three As in a row!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 25 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 08:55:58 PM

don't remember the other options but this question's definitely fair game--i had it with 2 LRs

oh right, I mean, I believe it is fair game, I just forgot what the other options were.  anyone refresh my memory?

Foggy - but it was something like "People only want money beyond what they need for basic needs for PRESTIGE."  Person B was all, "No they don't -- it's just useful to have extra money, whether you need it or not."

The answer had to do with whether prestige was important to people who had extra money.

The answer was that they disagree about whether people want to have more money than they need for reasons other than status and prestige.  (The first one said it's the only reason, and the second one said it's not)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 08:56:09 PM
Number 15 on the second LR. 

Proposal  :  Under this proposal if A - > B, and if A ->C,    but since B and C are conflicting,  A cannot happen.

How does the argument proceed:

Ans. is somehting like : A.  under this proposal, would make a conflicting situation
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:56:22 PM
These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.

I chose that answer, and still think it's the best option.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 08:56:36 PM
I went with the thesis answer for the pattern question.  As someone else said, it's a question of extremes of two characteristics leading to unintended consequences.

yeah, this choice did say that it helps to get an academic job or something, to write a good dissertation
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 12, 2006, 08:57:22 PM

1.   Beauty vs. art assumption question
Answer: The most beautiful things are the best art
Minority opinion: The assumption is simply that "the best" = "beautiful".
Was this Answer A?
This was # 16 on the 2nd LR, Does anyone remember three A’s in a row? 15, 16, 17



5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure

Any one remember any other answer choices???


6.  Computers/emotion/art
Answer: Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they can't produce great art.
There were two choices, A or D
A.   Computers can produce great art ONLY IF they can hold emotions
D.   Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they    can't produce great art.

I chose D, but cant seem to see why A is wrong.




Its D for sure!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 08:57:53 PM
I feel like we are going over a lot of the harder questions and missing the easy ones in the beginning, Id like to believe this is true or else im in trouble (haha)

Also, we havent really talked about any 2 part questions and there were at least 3 of them.

I had zero 2-part questions, and I had 3 LR sections. I really believe there were 2 different LR experimentals. Was your experimental section LR?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 08:57:56 PM
Wow, you guys have amazing memory.

I remember a question on how news media trivializing with bad politician traits was not good for elections/politics. I think the answer was like 'politicians with bad character traits are not good/not bad for politics' or so.

Right, the question was saying the newsmedia shouldn't cover bad personality traits of politicians. And I think it was a strengthen EXCEPT question with the answer being that personality traits are important part of politics or something.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 08:58:03 PM
These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.

I think I chose that one too, but I cancelled anyway :-\
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 08:58:20 PM
   >Reply with quote
>Quote from: paigeroo on Today at 07:43:45 PM
>These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
>5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
>Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.


Thank you......I think I chose that as well...I remember the stimulus had something that implied Parts -> whole, and the reasoning said that since Parts-> whole
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 08:58:28 PM
Wow, you guys have amazing memory.

I remember a question on how news media trivializing with bad politician traits was not good for elections/politics. I think the answer was like 'politicians with bad character traits are not good/not bad for politics' or so.

I remember this, and I remember the answer as "bad traits can affect a politician's career" or the choices he makes or something like that. (i.e. the media should report on personal lives because the bad traits of politicians influences their career choices).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 08:58:36 PM
Wow, you guys have amazing memory.

I remember a question on how news media trivializing with bad politician traits was not good for elections/politics. I think the answer was like 'politicians with bad character traits are not good/not bad for politics' or so.

the question was an all except question

i answered with something relating to the politican actually having a personality flaw.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 08:58:43 PM
These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.

I chose that answer, and still think it's the best option.

Agreed.  It seemed obvious to me, but maybe I'm missing something.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 12, 2006, 08:59:24 PM
These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.

I chose that answer, and still think it's the best option.


YES!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: zhyue on June 12, 2006, 08:59:28 PM
I chose that one also

These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: sevengirl on June 12, 2006, 08:59:41 PM
hello everyone.  i remember several more questions:

there was a question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.  then the stimulus introduced a computer that analyzed the proofs.  i don't remember what i chose for the answer... i struggled with this one.  

there was another question about monochrome statues, and how this was due to a misunderstanding.  ancient statues were monochrome because moisture could have erased the colors.  this was an assumption question and the answer was that ancient statues influence modern statues.

yet another question about how a museum shows special exhibits and on those days there are more ticket sales but the visitors stay a shorter amount of time.  this question asked for the choise that DOES NOT explain the discrepancy.  i remember one of the wrong choices was that the people could only stay for an hour.  

there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought.  

there was another question about secretaries doing a good job and feeling good about doing the job.  i don't remember the question exactly but the answer was that the secretaries could feel good because they are doing a good job.  

there was another question i barerly remember.  i only remember that the answer was that the argument is flawed because it assumes the conclusion its trying to prove.  it was towards the end of the section... maybe like number 21 or 22 or so.  

also about the prehistoric humans using tools, the ansewr is no difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates.  the other tempting answer is wrong because it says they USED (or something to that effect) the sophisticated tools.  just the fact that they USED the sophisticated tools doesn't say much about them MAKING the tools.  i remember i was choosing between the two answers when i caught the iffy word USE.  

regarding the judge/criminal/punishment question, i ALSO chose the THESIS answer.  i'm sure this is right!!!

and regarding the professor talking smack about another professor... can someone clarify?  i dont remember this one.  thanks!!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: should be packing on June 12, 2006, 09:00:08 PM

1.   Beauty vs. art assumption question
Answer: The most beautiful things are the best art
Minority opinion: The assumption is simply that "the best" = "beautiful".
Was this Answer A?
This was # 16 on the 2nd LR, Does anyone remember three A’s in a row? 15, 16, 17

1 vote for minority opinion


6.  Computers/emotion/art
Answer: Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they can't produce great art.
There were two choices, A or D
A.   Computers can produce great art ONLY IF they can hold emotions
D.   Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they    can't produce great art.

I chose D, but cant seem to see why A is wrong.



same boat here
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 09:00:14 PM
Number 15 on the second LR. 

Proposal  :  Under this proposal if A - > B, and if A ->C,    but since B and C are conflicting,  A cannot happen.

How does the argument proceed:

Ans. is somehting like : A.  under this proposal, would make a conflicting situation

I remember this, and I remember the answer to be something having to do with the combining of two different theories to show a conflicting situation (choice A I believe also)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 09:00:21 PM
Wow, you guys have amazing memory.

I remember a question on how news media trivializing with bad politician traits was not good for elections/politics. I think the answer was like 'politicians with bad character traits are not good/not bad for politics' or so.

Right, the question was saying the newsmedia shouldn't cover bad personality traits of politicians. And I think it was a strengthen EXCEPT question with the answer being that personality traits are important part of politics or something.

Agree. Answer (something like this): Personality flaws may actually affect a politician's political actions.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 09:00:25 PM
   >Reply with quote
>Quote from: paigeroo on Today at 07:43:45 PM
>These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
>5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
>Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.


Thank you......I think I chose that as well...I remember the stimulus had something that implied Parts -> whole, and the reasoning said that since Parts-> whole

Now that I think about I think I chose that too.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 09:00:43 PM
NOW I remember this question.  I agree with polkadot, I am actually pretty sure about it.  I think we should change the answer key.

These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.

I chose that answer, and still think it's the best option.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 09:01:31 PM
hello everyone.  i remember several more questions:

there was a question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.  then the stimulus introduced a computer that analyzed the proofs.  i don't remember what i chose for the answer... i struggled with this one.  

there was another question about monochrome statues, and how this was due to a misunderstanding.  ancient statues were monochrome because moisture could have erased the colors.  this was an assumption question and the answer was that ancient statues influence modern statues.

yet another question about how a museum shows special exhibits and on those days there are more ticket sales but the visitors stay a shorter amount of time.  this question asked for the choise that DOES NOT explain the discrepancy.  i remember one of the wrong choices was that the people could only stay for an hour.  

there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought.  

there was another question about secretaries doing a good job and feeling good about doing the job.  i don't remember the question exactly but the answer was that the secretaries could feel good because they are doing a good job.  

there was another question i barerly remember.  i only remember that the answer was that the argument is flawed because it assumes the conclusion its trying to prove.  it was towards the end of the section... maybe like number 21 or 22 or so.  

also about the prehistoric humans using tools, the ansewr is no difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates.  the other tempting answer is wrong because it says they USED (or something to that effect) the sophisticated tools.  just the fact that they USED the sophisticated tools doesn't say much about them MAKING the tools.  i remember i was choosing between the two answers when i caught the iffy word USE.  

regarding the judge/criminal/punishment question, i ALSO chose the THESIS answer.  i'm sure this is right!!!

and regarding the professor talking smack about another professor... can someone clarify?  i dont remember this one.  thanks!!

Damn, this girl's good!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:01:58 PM
The answer to the question about timber (conclusion) was that its effects need to be studied further.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 09:02:13 PM
It was A, and I do remember those three As in a row. 15, 16, and 17, in my first LR though.

For the new age philosopher one, I put that it assumes that reasoning structure must be the same as the structure of what one is studying.

For computers, I chose D. A is wrong because it makes an unwarranted assertion, that computers are theoretically capable of making great art. In other words, its conclusion is saying that it is possible if they held emotions. D simply states that they cannot create great art unless they fulfill the condition for great art, having emotions, while making no judgment if such a thing is possible even if they do have emotions.

Let's see if I can diagram this...

G->E
Great art has as a necessary condition great emotions.
The contrapositive is:
~E->~G
If the creator didn't have emotions, then the art will not be great.

A: C<->E
D: ~E->~C
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: strivergirl on June 12, 2006, 09:02:54 PM
i remember the politician question--the answer was something like personality traits eventually affect work as a politician.

i'm also pretty sure about the thesis one--it was the only option with two conditions that should lead to good results but if taken to extremes screw things up.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 09:03:07 PM
hello everyone.  i remember several more questions:

there was a question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.  then the stimulus introduced a computer that analyzed the proofs.  i don't remember what i chose for the answer... i struggled with this one. 


Right, right...I think the answer I chose for this one was something like no human could independently check all the theorums of the computer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 09:03:26 PM
The answer to the question about timber (conclusion) was that its effects need to be studied further.

seconded
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 12, 2006, 09:04:11 PM
For the Heavy Metal & Pollution one, I picked "Clorofoam is bad" or something like that. It seemed okay at the time, but now I'm beginning to think differently!  :'(

I think the question asked for what passage suggests, and I don't think it was necessarily suggesting that "you should not burn heavy metals" (this is how I remember the answer), since incinerating does cause pollution- but so does landfills if not used correctly. It just said burning it causes pollution. I think they did mention that refrigerators contain polluting elements, and then mention clorofoam (sp?). meh, I could be wrong, but I'm throwing it out there!

As for the PR question, I picked the Thesis as well.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: sevengirl on June 12, 2006, 09:04:30 PM
These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.


i chose this one too!!!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 09:04:55 PM
I went with the thesis answer for the pattern question.  As someone else said, it's a question of extremes of two characteristics leading to unintended consequences.

yeah, this choice did say that it helps to get an academic job or something, to write a good dissertation

Yes, but did the argument explicitly state that spending more time *should* make the dissertation/thesis better?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: should be packing on June 12, 2006, 09:06:01 PM
hello everyone.  i remember several more questions:

there was a question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.  then the stimulus introduced a computer that analyzed the proofs.  i don't remember what i chose for the answer... i struggled with this one.  

there was another question about monochrome statues, and how this was due to a misunderstanding.  ancient statues were monochrome because moisture could have erased the colors.  this was an assumption question and the answer was that ancient statues influence modern statues.

yet another question about how a museum shows special exhibits and on those days there are more ticket sales but the visitors stay a shorter amount of time.  this question asked for the choise that DOES NOT explain the discrepancy.  i remember one of the wrong choices was that the people could only stay for an hour.  

there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought.  

there was another question about secretaries doing a good job and feeling good about doing the job.  i don't remember the question exactly but the answer was that the secretaries could feel good because they are doing a good job.  

there was another question i barerly remember.  i only remember that the answer was that the argument is flawed because it assumes the conclusion its trying to prove.  it was towards the end of the section... maybe like number 21 or 22 or so.  

also about the prehistoric humans using tools, the ansewr is no difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates.  the other tempting answer is wrong because it says they USED (or something to that effect) the sophisticated tools.  just the fact that they USED the sophisticated tools doesn't say much about them MAKING the tools.  i remember i was choosing between the two answers when i caught the iffy word USE.  

regarding the judge/criminal/punishment question, i ALSO chose the THESIS answer.  i'm sure this is right!!!

and regarding the professor talking smack about another professor... can someone clarify?  i dont remember this one.  thanks!!

Damn, this girl's good!

no kidding!! the monochrome statues was an assumption i agree modern based on ancient
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 09:06:07 PM
there was another question about monochrome statues, and how this was due to a misunderstanding.  ancient statues were monochrome because moisture could have erased the colors.  this was an assumption question and the answer was that ancient statues influence modern statues.

Correct!

Quote
yet another question about how a museum shows special exhibits and on those days there are more ticket sales but the visitors stay a shorter amount of time.  this question asked for the choise that DOES NOT explain the discrepancy.  i remember one of the wrong choices was that the people could only stay for an hour. 

This was a strengthen EXCEPT question, and the hour answer was one of the incorrect answers (that strengthens it). The "correct" answer was pretty obvious but Im drawing a blank.

Quote
there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought. 

I remember this answer being the conclusion that they need to do more research on the dangers of the chemicals to humans.

Quote
there was another question about secretaries doing a good job and feeling good about doing the job.  i don't remember the question exactly but the answer was that the secretaries could feel good because they are doing a good job. 

RIGHT!

Quote

also about the prehistoric humans using tools, the ansewr is no difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates.  the other tempting answer is wrong because it says they USED (or something to that effect) the sophisticated tools.  just the fact that they USED the sophisticated tools doesn't say much about them MAKING the tools.  i remember i was choosing between the two answers when i caught the iffy word USE. 

YAY! I agree.

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 09:06:16 PM
That answer to the timber question is wrong, IT IS:  Effects need further study.

I feel like rainman with my memory on this *&^%.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 09:07:26 PM
hello everyone.  i remember several more questions:

there was a question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.  then the stimulus introduced a computer that analyzed the proofs.  i don't remember what i chose for the answer... i struggled with this one.  

there was another question about monochrome statues, and how this was due to a misunderstanding.  ancient statues were monochrome because moisture could have erased the colors.  this was an assumption question and the answer was that ancient statues influence modern statues.

yet another question about how a museum shows special exhibits and on those days there are more ticket sales but the visitors stay a shorter amount of time.  this question asked for the choise that DOES NOT explain the discrepancy.  i remember one of the wrong choices was that the people could only stay for an hour.  

there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought.  

there was another question about secretaries doing a good job and feeling good about doing the job.  i don't remember the question exactly but the answer was that the secretaries could feel good because they are doing a good job.  

there was another question i barerly remember.  i only remember that the answer was that the argument is flawed because it assumes the conclusion its trying to prove.  it was towards the end of the section... maybe like number 21 or 22 or so.  

also about the prehistoric humans using tools, the ansewr is no difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates.  the other tempting answer is wrong because it says they USED (or something to that effect) the sophisticated tools.  just the fact that they USED the sophisticated tools doesn't say much about them MAKING the tools.  i remember i was choosing between the two answers when i caught the iffy word USE.  

regarding the judge/criminal/punishment question, i ALSO chose the THESIS answer.  i'm sure this is right!!!

and regarding the professor talking smack about another professor... can someone clarify?  i dont remember this one.  thanks!!

ok here is what I remember for these
1. I put answer E I believe, something how about independent computer verification does not count as independent verification for proofs.

2. same answer

3. I remember the answer as being that the museum thought about doing something for special exhibits but decided against it (one of the middle choices, maybe B)

4. I think I said something different for this one, I remember it as timber needs to be tested because it can be harmful to humans (could be way off).

5. It was a causation question--the stem proposed that secretaries did good jobs because they felt good, and the flaw was that the secretaries felt good because they were doing a good job. (or flip it)

6. I remember this question as well, but am not sure I put that answer--I seem to remember deciding between that choice and one other one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 09:07:49 PM
>>there was a question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.  then the stimulus introduced a computer that analyzed the proofs.  i don't remember what i chose for the answer... i struggled with this one. 

- Nec Assumption : That computers checking the parts of a theorem is not sufficent to prove it, I.e. Need humans to verify it


>>there was another question about monochrome statues, and how this was due to a misunderstanding.  ancient statues were monochrome because moisture could have erased the colors.  this was an assumption question and the answer was that ancient statues influence modern statues.

- I concur.


>>yet another question about how a museum shows special exhibits and on those days there are more ticket sales but the visitors stay a shorter amount of time.  this question asked for the choise that DOES NOT explain the discrepancy.  i remember one of the wrong choices was that the people could only stay for an hour. 
- disagree, if they could only stay an hour then it explains why they stay less than when special exhibits arent there.
   
  Dont remember the Answer though

there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought. 
- disagree, dont remmber my AC though


there was another question about secretaries doing a good job and feeling good about doing the job.  i don't remember the question exactly but the answer was that the secretaries could feel good because they are doing a good job. 
- Concur, AC was based on the work of the secretaries could be the cause, rather than the effect


there was another question i barerly remember.  i only remember that the answer was that the argument is flawed because it assumes the conclusion its trying to prove.  it was towards the end of the section... maybe like number 21 or 22 or so. 
-  this one is right too  "Premise presumes conclusion is true" or something


also about the prehistoric humans using tools, the ansewr is no difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates.  the other tempting answer is wrong because it says they USED (or something to that effect) the sophisticated tools.  just the fact that they USED the sophisticated tools doesn't say much about them MAKING the tools.  i remember i was choosing between the two answers when i caught the iffy word USE. 

regarding the judge/criminal/punishment question, i ALSO chose the THESIS answer.  i'm sure this is right!!!
-> This was my point :)  this is FOR SURE correct, BECAUSE  the reasoning was based on if One thing INCREASES, the Other thing  DECREASES, and thus not have the good result.     Thesis had it, Medical Procedure simply said "slighty"  higher chance of dying.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: should be packing on June 12, 2006, 09:08:11 PM
That answer to the timber question is wrong, IT IS:  Effects need further study.

I feel like rainman with my memory on this sh*t.

third
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 09:08:50 PM
That answer to the timber question is wrong, IT IS:  Effects need further study.


Right that's what I meant by more research needing to be done. I dont remember this verbatim.

Quote
I feel like rainman with my memory on this sh*t.

Letter A, definitely, definetely Letter A...gotta pass the LSAT...90 for 170, definitely 90 for 170.  ;D
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: dcarealsattaker on June 12, 2006, 09:09:09 PM
Upright vs. Non-upright: Evidence that non-upright man used sophisticated tools is evidence that non-upright man MADE sophisticated tools (because upright man couldn't have made them).

I second the answer on further testing for timber.'

I forget the exact text of the CFC inference from the landfill question but I don't remember it being a proper inference.  The only one inferred from the text was that appliance with heavy metal should not be incinerated, because the prompt said that heavy metals poison the air when their hosts are incinerated.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 12, 2006, 09:09:13 PM
For the museum question, I used process of elimination to conclude that the answer had something to do with a debate about extending Museum hours?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:09:51 PM
The question about the tools.  The stimulus said that they had to be able to stand to make the tools, and this is why I think that dexterity has nothing to do with it, it's whether they needed to stand or not, not how well they used their hands.  The fact that they used sophisticated weapons (tools) means that they also had to make them.  IMHO.

Anyone care to elaborate on this one?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 09:10:14 PM
The one near the end about assuming a premise was the typical mind/body problem, which is ironic since I have my Philosophy of Mind final tomorrow, less than 24 hours after the LSAT...but it was basically along the lines of: Science isn't enough to understand our thoughts, for it is "obvious" that even if we had a complete map and understand all the workings of neurons etc. in the brain we would not understand it. Also, ironically I just wrote my term paper about that exact assumption in the Mind/Body debate...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 12, 2006, 09:10:36 PM
for the museum, the 'only could stay an hour' applied to the special exhibits in that answer possibility.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: strivergirl on June 12, 2006, 09:11:07 PM
hello everyone.  i remember several more questions:

there was a question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.  then the stimulus introduced a computer that analyzed the proofs.  i don't remember what i chose for the answer... i struggled with this one.  

there was another question about monochrome statues, and how this was due to a misunderstanding.  ancient statues were monochrome because moisture could have erased the colors.  this was an assumption question and the answer was that ancient statues influence modern statues.

yet another question about how a museum shows special exhibits and on those days there are more ticket sales but the visitors stay a shorter amount of time.  this question asked for the choise that DOES NOT explain the discrepancy.  i remember one of the wrong choices was that the people could only stay for an hour.  

there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought.  

there was another question about secretaries doing a good job and feeling good about doing the job.  i don't remember the question exactly but the answer was that the secretaries could feel good because they are doing a good job.  

there was another question i barerly remember.  i only remember that the answer was that the argument is flawed because it assumes the conclusion its trying to prove.  it was towards the end of the section... maybe like number 21 or 22 or so.  

also about the prehistoric humans using tools, the ansewr is no difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates.  the other tempting answer is wrong because it says they USED (or something to that effect) the sophisticated tools.  just the fact that they USED the sophisticated tools doesn't say much about them MAKING the tools.  i remember i was choosing between the two answers when i caught the iffy word USE.  

regarding the judge/criminal/punishment question, i ALSO chose the THESIS answer.  i'm sure this is right!!!

and regarding the professor talking smack about another professor... can someone clarify?  i dont remember this one.  thanks!!

holy crap sevengirl.
the first one the answer was assumes an independent computer analysis does not count as independent verification.
i agree on #2
#3 i remember a couple other wrong answers--that there's a limited amount of time you can visit with the special exhibition, that people who go to the s.e. have more limited interests, and something with "browsing" in it.
#4 i think the answer was actually that testing needs to be done to see if it's harmful to humans.  you're not sure it actually is, just that it potentially could be.
#5 i agree
#6 remember that too...not sure what it was
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 09:11:21 PM
Sevengirl, these are my best efforts at remembering your questions:

there was a question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.  then the stimulus introduced a computer that analyzed the proofs.

Question: What needs to be assumed?
Answer: Computers cannot efficiently analyze proofs.


there was another question about monochrome statues, and how this was due to a misunderstanding.  ancient statues were monochrome because moisture could have erased the colors.  this was an assumption question and the answer was that ancient statues influence modern statues.

Agree with answer.


yet another question about how a museum shows special exhibits and on those days there are more ticket sales but the visitors stay a shorter amount of time.  this question asked for the choise that DOES NOT explain the discrepancy.  i remember one of the wrong choices was that the people could only stay for an hour.  

Answer: Museum did not extend hours when it had special exhibits.


there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought.  

I actually disagree with this answer, though it was one of the 2 I was deciding between. I could very well be wrong.
My answer: Outdoor timber should be tested for their effects on humans.


there was another question about secretaries doing a good job and feeling good about doing the job.  i don't remember the question exactly but the answer was that the secretaries could feel good because they are doing a good job.  

Question: Flaw in the reasoning?
Agree with answer. (This was about cause and effect getting reversed.)


also about the prehistoric humans using tools, the ansewr is no difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates.  the other tempting answer is wrong because it says they USED (or something to that effect) the sophisticated tools.  just the fact that they USED the sophisticated tools doesn't say much about them MAKING the tools.  i remember i was choosing between the two answers when i caught the iffy word USE.  

Disagree. There was another separate answer that involved MAKING the tools, which people selected. I remember the one about USING tools, which was obviously wrong.


MOST IMPORTANTLY, someone has to verify that these WERE NOT EXPERIMENTAL.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: lsatsucker on June 12, 2006, 09:11:29 PM
what was the answer to the question, it was an inference question about like if you recycle certain things then a risk or mercury, was it about the chloropasts being harmful or something like that.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 09:11:41 PM
for the museum, the 'only could stay an hour' applied to the special exhibits in that answer possibility.

Right it strengthened it meaning it was incorrect as the CR since it was an EXCEPT question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 09:13:10 PM
Ok answers i think you can ADD:

ADD:
Timber: more studying

Moncochrome statues:  ancient effects modern

Computer/theorem:  Computers cannot sufficiently check the answer, humans need to verify

MORE INFO:
Secetary question
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Futballer on June 12, 2006, 09:13:16 PM
Quote
there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought.


I put something like the timber is as harmful outside as it is inside. Because didn't the stim mention something about the dangers of burning it inside so they tried it outside?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 09:13:48 PM
quote]there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought.


I put something like the timber is as harmful outside as it is inside. Because didn't the stim mention something about the dangers of burning it inside so they tried it outside?
[/quote]

But his main conclusion was that it needed to be further tested for its safety on humans.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: dcarealsattaker on June 12, 2006, 09:14:18 PM
All of sevengirl's questions are real.  I did not have the experimental section and had all those questions.  Confirmed!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: lsatsucker on June 12, 2006, 09:14:34 PM
Quote
there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought.


I put something like the timber is as harmful outside as it is inside. Because didn't the stim mention something about the dangers of burning it inside so they tried it outside?

i though it was that its harmful outside and they should do more research
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 09:14:49 PM
The one near the end about assuming a premise was the typical mind/body problem, which is ironic since I have my Philosophy of Mind final tomorrow, less than 24 hours after the LSAT...but it was basically along the lines of: Science isn't enough to understand our thoughts, for it is "obvious" that even if we had a complete map and understand all the workings of neurons etc. in the brain we would not understand it. Also, ironically I just wrote my term paper about that exact assumption in the Mind/Body debate...

Oh this one was infinitely annoying.  assumes the conclusion is true?

Ok answers i think you can ADD:

Computer/theorem:  Computers cannot sufficiently check the answer, humans need to verify

Wait?  are you describing the problem or giving the answer?  What kind of question was this?  was the answer E?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 09:15:56 PM
Question: What needs to be assumed?
Answer: Computers cannot efficiently analyze proofs.

Agreed.

there was another question about monochrome statues, and how this was due to a misunderstanding.  ancient statues were monochrome because moisture could have erased the colors.  this was an assumption question and the answer was that ancient statues influence modern statues.

Agreed.

Answer: Museum did not extend hours when it had special exhibits.

Agreed.

there was another question about timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil.  the question asked for the main conclusion and the answer was that timber is worse than originally thought.  

I actually disagree with this answer, though it was one of the 2 I was deciding between. I could very well be wrong.
My answer: Outdoor timber should be tested for their effects on humans.

Agreed with testing, as the article specifically made no mention of the effects.

Secretary Question: Flaw in the reasoning?
Agree with answer. (This was about cause and effect getting reversed.)

None of the ones you wrote were experimental, by the way.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 09:16:04 PM
The one near the end about assuming a premise was the typical mind/body problem, which is ironic since I have my Philosophy of Mind final tomorrow, less than 24 hours after the LSAT...but it was basically along the lines of: Science isn't enough to understand our thoughts, for it is "obvious" that even if we had a complete map and understand all the workings of neurons etc. in the brain we would not understand it. Also, ironically I just wrote my term paper about that exact assumption in the Mind/Body debate...

Oh this one was infinitely annoying.  assumes the conclusion is true?

Ok answers i think you can ADD:

Computer/theorem:  Computers cannot sufficiently check the answer, humans need to verify

Wait?  are you describing the problem or giving the answer?  What kind of question was this?  was the answer E?

I put E as the answer for this question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:16:14 PM
Ok answers i think you can ADD:

ADD:
Timber: more studying

Moncochrome statues:  ancient effects modern

Computer/theorem:  Computers cannot sufficiently check the answer, humans need to verify

MORE INFO:
Secetary question

the secretary answer mentioned before is right.  It's that there can be a reverse causation (not feel good -->do good job, but the other way around)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 09:18:05 PM

the first one the answer was assumes an independent computer analysis does not count as independent verification.

Is this incorrect now?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 21 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 09:18:37 PM
22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.


31.  Judge/criminal/punishment pattern question


These are one and the same,  the answer for 22 is incorrect
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 21 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 09:19:31 PM
22. Criminal sentencing parallel reasoning question
Answer: New medical procedure to treat a disease not saving more lives.

These are one and the same,  the answer for 22 is incorrect

how do you know?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 21 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 09:19:58 PM
29. Timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil- Main Conclusion question
Answer: That timber is worse than originally thought


Answer is actually  that more research needs to be done on effects of timber on humans
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:21:22 PM
The question about the tools.  The stimulus said that they had to be able to stand to make the tools, and this is why I think that dexterity has nothing to do with it, it's whether they needed to stand or not, not how well they used their hands.  The fact that they used sophisticated weapons (tools) means that they also had to make them.  IMHO.



Anyone care to elaborate on this one?

Also, I am not sure this has been mentioned before, but there was a question about humidity and oppressive days.  I believe the answer was E (there was no wind, and the day was oppressive even though the temperature was below 84)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 20 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 09:21:22 PM
12. Mythical half horse
Answer: The horse in their minds may not represent the horse in mythology

Does anyone have the other ACs for this question?  I remember the argument had something to do with a half human half horse thing.
Reply
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 20 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 09:22:10 PM
Humidity was on EXP probably, I dont remember it
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 09:22:35 PM
The question about the tools.  The stimulus said that they had to be able to stand to make the tools, and this is why I think that dexterity has nothing to do with it, it's whether they needed to stand or not, not how well they used their hands.  The fact that they used sophisticated weapons (tools) means that they also had to make them.  IMHO.



Anyone care to elaborate on this one?

Also, I am not sure this has been mentioned before, but there was a question about humidity and oppressive days.  I believe the answer was E (there was no wind, and the day was oppressive even though the temperature was below 84)

I don't remember the humidity one, so I'm calling it experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 19 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: lsatsucker on June 12, 2006, 09:22:59 PM
16: Video Games/kids/agression
Answer: Younger kids that did not play video games still approved of violence

i picked this answer too, does everyone agree this was the correct one?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 20 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Rockie on June 12, 2006, 09:23:06 PM
12. Mythical half horse
Answer: The horse in their minds may not represent the horse in mythology

Does anyone have the other ACs for this question?  I remember the argument had something to do with a half human half horse thing.
Reply

Myths represent conscious thoughts. Many culturues independently developed half horse/half man myth. EVen though horses are nice and cuddly, these myths are represented as vicious and mean. How can this be so?

The answer (We think) is that they were thinking of a different kind of horse then actual horses.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 19 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 09:23:17 PM
The monochrome painting:  affects ancient

CREDITED!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 21 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: wiretin on June 12, 2006, 09:23:31 PM
29. Timber and how the chemicals don't go into the air.  but children can still put their mouths on the wood and the timber can infect the soil- Main Conclusion question
Answer: That timber is worse than originally thought


Answer is actually  that more research needs to be done on effects of timber on humans

I agree. The main conclusion was that more research was needed.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: sevengirl on June 12, 2006, 09:23:41 PM
The question about the tools.  The stimulus said that they had to be able to stand to make the tools, and this is why I think that dexterity has nothing to do with it, it's whether they needed to stand or not, not how well they used their hands.  The fact that they used sophisticated weapons (tools) means that they also had to make them.  IMHO.

but what if the upright humans just found the tools somewhere else (ie some other entity made the tools) and they were only using it?

when the stimulas says they had to stand to make the tools, the assumption is that they need their hands to make the tools.  that is the obvious difference between standing upright and not.  what else could account for the difference between standing upright and not that enables the humans to make tools.  thus if there is no difference in dexterity, that weakens the argument.  but if non upright humans are only USING the tools, and someone ELSE actually MADE the tools, that is still consistent with the argument.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 19 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 09:24:32 PM
These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!



33. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.
Answer: No human could independently check all the theorums of the computer


Wrong.  The computer cannot check all the theorems, humans need to verify.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 19 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: wiretin on June 12, 2006, 09:25:43 PM
As for the monocrome scluptures question, I say the answer was that modern art is influenced by ancient art.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 19 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 09:26:12 PM
16: Video Games/kids/agression
Answer: Younger kids that did not play video games still approved of violence

i picked this answer too, does everyone agree this was the correct one?

Anyone remember other choices?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 19 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 12, 2006, 09:26:49 PM
Um, about the Doctors and human rights and objects ones. I think it was an assumption question?

I'm going to throw this out there: I know it seemed strange, but what about the 'objects don't have rights' answer. It seemed absurd until I read the last sentence again. It said something like, 'if doctors don't abide by these, they are treating them more like objects than like people'. meh, it was a bit of a stretch, but it directly applied to the last sentence, and I believe it was a required assumption in order to get that last sentence.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Qingu on June 12, 2006, 09:26:54 PM
The question about the tools.  The stimulus said that they had to be able to stand to make the tools, and this is why I think that dexterity has nothing to do with it, it's whether they needed to stand or not, not how well they used their hands.  The fact that they used sophisticated weapons (tools) means that they also had to make them.  IMHO.

but what if the upright humans just found the tools somewhere else (ie some other entity made the tools) and they were only using it?

when the stimulas says they had to stand to make the tools, the assumption is that they need their hands to make the tools.  that is the obvious difference between standing upright and not.  what else could account for the difference between standing upright and not that enables the humans to make tools.  thus if there is no difference in dexterity, that weakens the argument.  but if non upright humans are only USING the tools, and someone ELSE actually MADE the tools, that is still consistent with the argument. 
The answer choice explicitly said the tools *belonged* to hte nonupright humans.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 20 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:27:28 PM
12. Mythical half horse
Answer: The horse in their minds may not represent the horse in mythology

Does anyone have the other ACs for this question?  I remember the argument had something to do with a half human half horse thing.
Reply

Myths represent conscious thoughts. Many culturues independently developed half horse/half man myth. EVen though horses are nice and cuddly, these myths are represented as vicious and mean. How can this be so?

The answer (We think) is that they were thinking of a different kind of horse then actual horses.

the answer was that the the mythical horse with a human head animal does not necessarily represent a horse (it could represent humans instead)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 09:28:30 PM
The question about the tools.  The stimulus said that they had to be able to stand to make the tools, and this is why I think that dexterity has nothing to do with it, it's whether they needed to stand or not, not how well they used their hands.  The fact that they used sophisticated weapons (tools) means that they also had to make them.  IMHO.

but what if the upright humans just found the tools somewhere else (ie some other entity made the tools) and they were only using it?



when the stimulas says they had to stand to make the tools, the assumption is that they need their hands to make the tools.  that is the obvious difference between standing upright and not.  what else could account for the difference between standing upright and not that enables the humans to make tools.  thus if there is no difference in dexterity, that weakens the argument.  but if non upright humans are only USING the tools, and someone ELSE actually MADE the tools, that is still consistent with the argument.  

yes, but non-upright comes before upright, so if the tools were used and thus existed among the non-uprights, clearly 1.they had the free hands (and even dexterity) to use them and 2. the tools were made by non-uprights (the other options are that animals made the tools or that uprights made the tools and then sent them back in a time machine).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: dcarealsattaker on June 12, 2006, 09:28:47 PM
The question about the tools.  The stimulus said that they had to be able to stand to make the tools, and this is why I think that dexterity has nothing to do with it, it's whether they needed to stand or not, not how well they used their hands.  The fact that they used sophisticated weapons (tools) means that they also had to make them.  IMHO.

but what if the upright humans just found the tools somewhere else (ie some other entity made the tools) and they were only using it?

when the stimulas says they had to stand to make the tools, the assumption is that they need their hands to make the tools.  that is the obvious difference between standing upright and not.  what else could account for the difference between standing upright and not that enables the humans to make tools.  thus if there is no difference in dexterity, that weakens the argument.  but if non upright humans are only USING the tools, and someone ELSE actually MADE the tools, that is still consistent with the argument.  

The LSAT instructs you to make "reasonable" assumptions.  Like a lake has water in it.  Or, that no alien intelligence created tools for pre-upright man.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 19 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:31:05 PM
16: Video Games/kids/agression
Answer: Younger kids that did not play video games still approved of violence

i picked this answer too, does everyone agree this was the correct one?

Anyone remember other choices?

that answer is correct.  There was one that some kids approve of violence if their parents approve, or something like that.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 18 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 09:32:25 PM
33. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.
Answer: No human could independently check all the theorums of the computer

Anyone disagree with this? I put something like, "Computers cannot analyze theorems," but maybe this is just too blurry for me to remember distinctions between answer choices.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:32:40 PM
The question about the tools.  The stimulus said that they had to be able to stand to make the tools, and this is why I think that dexterity has nothing to do with it, it's whether they needed to stand or not, not how well they used their hands.  The fact that they used sophisticated weapons (tools) means that they also had to make them.  IMHO.

but what if the upright humans just found the tools somewhere else (ie some other entity made the tools) and they were only using it?

when the stimulas says they had to stand to make the tools, the assumption is that they need their hands to make the tools.  that is the obvious difference between standing upright and not.  what else could account for the difference between standing upright and not that enables the humans to make tools.  thus if there is no difference in dexterity, that weakens the argument.  but if non upright humans are only USING the tools, and someone ELSE actually MADE the tools, that is still consistent with the argument.  

The LSAT instructs you to make "reasonable" assumptions.  Like a lake has water in it.  Or, that no alien intelligence created tools for pre-upright man.

yes, that's what I thought too.  I debated between those two answer choices, but the word 'dexterity' was sorta out of scope.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 18 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 09:32:51 PM
Couple things

1.  I am glad someone finally said the "Humans can have rights objects do not possibility."  The conclusion is about humans and rights and why they dont deserve to BE TREATED LIKE AN OBJECT, but how do we know humans have rights objects dont? 

2.  I am positive about the antique answer to the monochrome statues question, you can add it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 18 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 09:33:01 PM
Re: Video games problem

Oh, I know it's correct, I just don't remember that problem well enough to know if I picked that answer or not, and was hoping someone would jog my memory.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 18 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 09:36:17 PM
33. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.
Answer: No human could independently check all the theorums of the computer

Anyone disagree with this? I put something like, "Computers cannot analyze theorems," but maybe this is just too blurry for me to remember distinctions between answer choices.

I think I put that as well, but I don't remember the argument well enough...
Something about how theorems should be verified independently, and how computer assistant is often used for extremely complex things that only computers could do.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 18 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:37:22 PM
Re: Video games problem

Oh, I know it's correct, I just don't remember that problem well enough to know if I picked that answer or not, and was hoping someone would jog my memory.

all of the other ones basically demonstrated how kids' opinions about violence changed when they witnessed violence approval either on TV, or from someone else.  There was one about older kids, but it was still strengthening.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 18 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 09:37:32 PM
>>the answer was that the the mythical horse with a human head animal does not necessarily represent a horse (it could represent humans instead)


thank you I think I chose this, I remember something that implied the mean and vicious was on the human half, not the horse
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 18 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 09:40:48 PM
33. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.
Answer: No human could independently check all the theorums of the computer

Anyone disagree with this? I put something like, "Computers cannot analyze theorems," but maybe this is just too blurry for me to remember distinctions between answer choices.

I think I put that as well, but I don't remember the argument well enough...
Something about how theorems should be verified independently, and how computer assistant is often used for extremely complex things that only computers could do.

I chose an answer which said something like the argument assumed that independent computer analysis doesn't count as "real" independent analysis of proofs which cannot be tabulated by humans. I remember this as answer E--does anyone else agree?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 12, 2006, 09:41:30 PM
FIX:

22 and 31 on the master list refer to the same question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 09:41:52 PM
Number 22 adn 31 on the Master List are the SAME question, 31 is the correct answer though.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 18 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:42:35 PM
>>the answer was that the the mythical horse with a human head animal does not necessarily represent a horse (it could represent humans instead)


thank you I think I chose this, I remember something that implied the mean and vicious was on the human half, not the horse

well, the answer choice itself did not say it could be humans, just that it was not nececssarily a representation of the horse.  But since it had a human head, I figured that's what it meant.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 09:42:40 PM
I believe it was something like "Computers cannot perform independent analysis."
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 18 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: wiretin on June 12, 2006, 09:43:03 PM
33. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.
Answer: No human could independently check all the theorums of the computer

Anyone disagree with this? I put something like, "Computers cannot analyze theorems," but maybe this is just too blurry for me to remember distinctions between answer choices.

I think I put that as well, but I don't remember the argument well enough...
Something about how theorems should be verified independently, and how computer assistant is often used for extremely complex things that only computers could do.

I chose an answer which said something like the argument assumed that independent computer analysis doesn't count as "real" independent analysis of proofs which cannot be tabulated by humans. I remember this as answer E--does anyone else agree?

I also put E. What I got out of it, is that computers can run all the analyses in the world but they amount to nothing unless they are verified.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 09:44:10 PM
Also put E on the computer one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:45:13 PM
does anyone remember the last parallel reasoning question on the second first set of LR?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: squirt10 on June 12, 2006, 09:45:42 PM
I believe it was something like "Computers cannot perform independent analysis."

I remember something like this too.  I experienced some serious deja vu reading this question.  I'd swear something very similar was on an older test, except the correct answer had to do with humans checking instead of computers performing independent analysis.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 09:45:51 PM
Also put E on the computer one.

Agree with E for the computer question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 09:47:51 PM
Anyone remember the 2-parters?  Those have to account for at least 2-3 questions if we can conjure them.

non-existent
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:48:45 PM
I didn't have any two-part ones either (by those you mean one stimulus, two questions right?)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 09:48:45 PM
Anyone remember the 2-parters?  Those have to account for at least 2-3 questions if we can conjure them.

I think those must have been part of an experimental section--I had no two-parters.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 09:49:41 PM
Anyone remember the 2-parters?  Those have to account for at least 2-3 questions if we can conjure them.

non-existent

One of the experimentals had them. The other did not. None of the real sections had them.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 09:53:40 PM
Ok, got'cha on the nonexistent 2-parters.... have we covered all of the easier ones... it does seem like we focused a lot more on the difficult nail-biters.

I think it's because people actually remembered the ones they had problems with.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 09:58:03 PM
I bet I missed 8 of the remaining 16.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:01:17 PM
Can anyone describe the stem and all the answer choices for the HDL/LDL cholesteral question? I'm still very unsure about what I chose.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:04:15 PM
Can anyone describe the stem and all the answer choices for the HDL/LDL cholesteral question? I'm still very unsure about what I chose.

Cholesterol causes heart disease.  HDL increases the levels of cholesterol, and is thus bad for you.  But LDL is actually good for you.  How come?

All answers help resolve the discrepancy, ecxept (or smth like this)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:05:24 PM
Can anyone describe the stem and all the answer choices for the HDL/LDL cholesteral question? I'm still very unsure about what I chose.

Cholesterol causes heart disease.  HDL increases the levels of cholesterol, and is thus bad for you.  But LDL is actually good for you.  How come?

All answers help resolve the discrepancy, ecxept (or smth like this)

I think HDL is the good cholesteral. What I really need is the various answer choices, which will hopefully jog my memory.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 10:05:37 PM
21. Most computer programmers are highly paid
Answer: Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

Are most people sure about this? It was answer A, and it's the one I chose without looking at the other choices (I was out of time), but it seems too simple.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:09:53 PM
Can anyone describe the stem and all the answer choices for the HDL/LDL cholesteral question? I'm still very unsure about what I chose.

Cholesterol causes heart disease.  HDL increases the levels of cholesterol, and is thus bad for you.  But LDL is actually good for you.  How come?

All answers help resolve the discrepancy, ecxept (or smth like this)

I think HDL is the good cholesteral. What I really need is the various answer choices, which will hopefully jog my memory.

I didn't remember which was good and which was bad.
There was one answer that said that the good one balances out the effects of the bad one.

The correct one was that the good one takes long to get out of the system (does nothing to resolve the discrepancy)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: Harper on June 12, 2006, 10:11:55 PM
One last one I remembered as getting ready for bed - the rotten fruit, inspected and infected.  I remember A & B being tempting, I think I settled on B.  All fruit that is not rotten is safe to eat?   Or some such thing.  I am off to bed - not to be construed as giving up.  I will be back.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:12:16 PM
21. Most computer programmers are highly paid
Answer: Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

Are most people sure about this? It was answer A, and it's the one I chose without looking at the other choices (I was out of time), but it seems too simple.

yeah, it's correct.  I spent some time on all of the answer choices, and that's the one I picked, too.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:13:17 PM
One last one I remembered as getting ready for bed - the rotten fruit, inspected and infected.  I remember A & B being tempting, I think I settled on B.  All fruit that is not rotten is safe to eat?   Or some such thing.  I am off to bed - not to be construed as giving up.  I will be back.

I remember this! I originially chose B "all fruit that is no rotten is safe to eat" but then chose either D or E "all fruit that is not infected is safe to eat" because it directly derived from the question stem.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 10:14:08 PM
21. Most computer programmers are highly paid
Answer: Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

Are most people sure about this? It was answer A, and it's the one I chose without looking at the other choices (I was out of time), but it seems too simple.

I think two of them were extremely similar, and I don't know if it was A. I recall marking something like that, but recalling that it was similar but better than A for some reason. Is everyone sure it was answer choice A and not a very similar one? Uh oh.

For the fruit, I think you're right.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 10:14:22 PM
Yeah, I went with "all fruit that is not infected is safe to eat" also on that one
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: paigeroo on June 12, 2006, 10:14:37 PM
Ok rotten fruit hmm... any second opinions as to the answer choice?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:15:26 PM
One last one I remembered as getting ready for bed - the rotten fruit, inspected and infected.  I remember A & B being tempting, I think I settled on B.  All fruit that is not rotten is safe to eat?   Or some such thing.  I am off to bed - not to be construed as giving up.  I will be back.

It was that no inspected fruit are infected (?).  All of the fruits have been inspected and therefore are safe to eat.

Answer:  Non-infected fruit is safe to eat (or smth like it).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: wiretin on June 12, 2006, 10:15:41 PM
One last one I remembered as getting ready for bed - the rotten fruit, inspected and infected.  I remember A & B being tempting, I think I settled on B.  All fruit that is not rotten is safe to eat?   Or some such thing.  I am off to bed - not to be construed as giving up.  I will be back.

 It's funny how it all comes back when someone mentions one. I gave the same answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:15:55 PM
21. Most computer programmers are highly paid
Answer: Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

Are most people sure about this? It was answer A, and it's the one I chose without looking at the other choices (I was out of time), but it seems too simple.

I think two of them were extremely similar, and I don't know if it was A. I recall marking something like that, but recalling that it was similar but better than A for some reason. Is everyone sure it was answer choice A and not a very similar one? Uh oh.

For the fruit, I think you're right.

The Mary one was difficult but I agree A was the answer. It was something like D changed "classmates" to "classmates who garden" and E changed "classmates" to "female classmates"--too restrictive.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 10:16:45 PM
I went with rotten fruit.  The word "uninfected" never appears on that stem.  The word "rotten" does, and the logic for that answer seemed air tight.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:18:34 PM
I just thought of one which had something to do with a large country being split into smaller countries, and the answer was something like "smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent" which had to do with why they don't impose tariffs or economic restrictions or something.

I also vaguely remember a question which took place in 1990 and had to do with changes between the 1970s and 1990.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: Da5id on June 12, 2006, 10:18:49 PM
One last one I remembered as getting ready for bed - the rotten fruit, inspected and infected.  I remember A & B being tempting, I think I settled on B.  All fruit that is not rotten is safe to eat?   Or some such thing.  I am off to bed - not to be construed as giving up.  I will be back.

All Fruit that is not infected is safe to eat was TCR, I'm pretty confident.

The question basically took this form:

All infected fruit is rotten
No inspected fruit is infected
Therefore inspected fruit is safe to eat

This means that all inspected fruit is not infected---- but it DID, iirc, allow for inspected fruit to be rotten but not infected. Therefore "all non-rotten is safe to eat" does not complete the reasoning, but "all non-infected" does.

JMO.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:18:57 PM
I went with rotten fruit.  The word "uninfected" never appears on that stem.  The word "rotten" does, and the logic for that answer seemed air tight.


it was either rotten or infected.  I actually thought that the stem mention rotten, but then someone said it's infected.  Now I am not sure.  Ii know I chose the answer with the same word as in the stem though.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:20:09 PM
One last one I remembered as getting ready for bed - the rotten fruit, inspected and infected.  I remember A & B being tempting, I think I settled on B.  All fruit that is not rotten is safe to eat?   Or some such thing.  I am off to bed - not to be construed as giving up.  I will be back.

All Fruit that is not infected is safe to eat was TCR, I'm pretty confident.

The question basically took this form:

All infected fruit is rotten
No inspected fruit is infected
Therefore inspected fruit is safe to eat

This means that all inspected fruit is not infected---- but it DID, iirc, allow for inspected fruit to be rotten but not infected. Therefore "all non-rotten is safe to eat" does not complete the reasoning, but "all non-infected" does.

JMO.

this was my exact reasoning.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 10:20:26 PM
I just thought of one which had something to do with a large country being split into smaller countries, and the answer was something like "smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent" which had to do with why they don't impose tariffs or economic restrictions or something.

I also vaguely remember a question which took place in 1990 and had to do with changes between the 1970s and 1990.


the larger countries and smaller countries one is correct,  "smaller  countries dont think themselves as economically sufficent, only economically sufficent countries impose tarrifs"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:20:44 PM
I just thought of one which had something to do with a large country being split into smaller countries, and the answer was something like "smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent" which had to do with why they don't impose tariffs or economic restrictions or something.

I also vaguely remember a question which took place in 1990 and had to do with changes between the 1970s and 1990.

Smaller countries do not think that they are self-sufficient, I think.

I am trying to remember the 1990-1970 question now.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: FossilJ on June 12, 2006, 10:21:08 PM
One last one I remembered as getting ready for bed - the rotten fruit, inspected and infected.  I remember A & B being tempting, I think I settled on B.  All fruit that is not rotten is safe to eat?   Or some such thing.  I am off to bed - not to be construed as giving up.  I will be back.

All Fruit that is not infected is safe to eat was TCR, I'm pretty confident.

The question basically took this form:

All infected fruit is rotten
No inspected fruit is infected
Therefore inspected fruit is safe to eat

This means that all inspected fruit is not infected---- but it DID, iirc, allow for inspected fruit to be rotten but not infected. Therefore "all non-rotten is safe to eat" does not complete the reasoning, but "all non-infected" does.

JMO.

Actually, this makes more sense now.  I think you're right.  That means me and Papa were wrong.  Damn it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: TurtleSandwich on June 12, 2006, 10:21:31 PM
I just thought of one which had something to do with a large country being split into smaller countries, and the answer was something like "smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent" which had to do with why they don't impose tariffs or economic restrictions or something.

I also vaguely remember a question which took place in 1990 and had to do with changes between the 1970s and 1990.

Smaller countries do not think that they are self-sufficient, I think.

I am trying to remember the 1990-1970 question now.

I second that.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:23:29 PM
Does anyone remember the unemployment question?  (experimental?)

The stem said that unemployment is better because less people are looking for jobs, and the answer was that the speaker does not take into consideration that there may be many jobless people who are not looking for jobs.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 14 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 10:24:29 PM
Not experimental, and you are correct.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:24:51 PM
Does anyone remember the unemployment question?  (experimental?)

The stem said that unemployment is better because less people are looking for jobs, and the answer was that the speaker does not take into consideration that there may be many jobless people who are not looking for jobs.

perfection! I had this, but I had one experimental section, so who knows?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 14 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 10:25:21 PM
It's definitely not experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 14 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:26:10 PM
wasn't it question #1 or 2?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 10:28:40 PM
Does anyone remember the unemployment question?  (experimental?)

The stem said that unemployment is better because less people are looking for jobs, and the answer was that the speaker does not take into consideration that there may be many jobless people who are not looking for jobs.

thats not experimental, and its correct "doesnt take into consideration that there may be many jobless people who looked for jobs, then  stopped looking"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 14 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:30:25 PM
ok, I remember the 1970-1990 question.  

The cost of a pay phone call cost a quarter in 1970, the same as soda from the vending machines.  However, over the past 20 yrs, the cost of soda more than doubled while the cost of payphone calls remained the same.  Therefore, the phone companies would be justified if they increased their prices for pay phone calls.

The answer was that the author's argument would be justified if vending machine equipment did not increase substantially (?)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:31:19 PM
Someone jog my memory on this one. I didn't choose this answer.

I just thought of one which had something to do with a large country being split into smaller countries, and the answer was something like "smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent" which had to do with why they don't impose tariffs or economic restrictions or something.

I also vaguely remember a question which took place in 1990 and had to do with changes between the 1970s and 1990.

Yeah, the answer to this question was def. something about smaller countries not thinking of themselves as economically independent. From this, you could then reason that the tariffs mentioned in the stem wouldn't come to pass.

The stem was someone arguing that the splitting up of larger countries into smaller ones would be bad for the economy because it would create more tariffs, since all countries who consider themselves economically viable enact tariffs. The answer was somehow an exception which said that smaller countries don't consider themselves economically viable.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 14 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:32:43 PM
ok, I remember the 1970-1990 question.  

The cost of a pay phone call cost a quarter in 1970, the same as soda from the vending machines.  However, over the past 20 yrs, the cost of soda more than doubled while the cost of payphone calls remained the same.  Therefore, the phone companies would be justified if they increased their prices for pay phone calls.

The answer was that the author's argument would be justified if vending machine equipment did not increase while the pay phone did not.

do you remember any of the other answers? I'm not sure what I put, and that one doesn't sound familiar.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 10:33:35 PM
There was one that talked solely about equipment, and another was almost the same answer but replaced vending machine equipment with materials necessary to make soda or something.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: TinaTina on June 12, 2006, 10:33:53 PM
Quick PSA: Paigeroo rocks!!!

Paigeroo you definitely get my kudos for this thread.  You been going for what...six hours now?  You're definitely the woman of the hour.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: LSACcansuckmy(L)eftSAC on June 12, 2006, 10:35:02 PM
About the modern sculpture painters misunderstanding ancient sculplture painting practices b/c only recently have people begun to realize that some excavated ancient sculptures that were found colorless actually had color...

..i couldn't tell from the answer post if the answer resembled what i picked...i think i picked (E), saying that if modern painters had known that ancient ones were painted in color, they'd have been more polychromatic or something...was that it?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:35:18 PM
There was one that talked solely about equipment, and another was almost the same answer but replaced vending machine equipment with materials necessary to make soda or something.

Damn, I think I put the materials necessary to make soda. Another answer was something about government regulation of the phone industry. I know I chose the one that said the cost of making soda went up or whatever. Are you sure the vending machine/pay phone thing was right?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 14 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:35:27 PM
ok, I remember the 1970-1990 question.  

The cost of a pay phone call cost a quarter in 1970, the same as soda from the vending machines.  However, over the past 20 yrs, the cost of soda more than doubled while the cost of payphone calls remained the same.  Therefore, the phone companies would be justified if they increased their prices for pay phone calls.

The answer was that the author's argument would be justified if the price of vending machine equipment did not increase

do you remember any of the other answers? I'm not sure what I put, and that one doesn't sound familiar.

There was one about phone companies equipment being more sophisticated, I think.  I changed the answer choice because I think the one I put before did not sound like the one I chose.  See italics.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 14 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 10:35:33 PM
Something about chemicals in the soda.

I might have put that as my answer, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: LSACcansuckmy(L)eftSAC on June 12, 2006, 10:36:06 PM
There was one that talked solely about equipment, and another was almost the same answer but replaced vending machine equipment with materials necessary to make soda or something.

Damn, I think I put the materials necessary to make soda. Another answer was something about government regulation of the phone industry. I know I chose the one that said the cost of making soda went up or whatever. Are you sure the vending machine/pay phone thing was right?

dunno if it's right but i also picked the cost of soda has gone up
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:36:19 PM
About the modern sculpture painters misunderstanding ancient sculplture painting practices b/c only recently have people begun to realize that some excavated ancient sculptures that were found colorless actually had color...

..i couldn't tell from the answer post if the answer resembled what i picked...i think i picked (E), saying that if modern painters had known that ancient ones were painted in color, they'd have been more polychromatic or something...was that it?

no, it was that modern scupltors were inspired by ancient sculpture
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:36:32 PM
There was one that talked solely about equipment, and another was almost the same answer but replaced vending machine equipment with materials necessary to make soda or something.

Damn, I think I put the materials necessary to make soda. Another answer was something about government regulation of the phone industry. I know I chose the one that said the cost of making soda went up or whatever. Are you sure the vending machine/pay phone thing was right?

yes, it was soda, I got confused.  :-\  The equipment was a different one, and it was incorrect.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 14 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 10:36:54 PM
The cost of a pay phone call cost a quarter in 1970, the same as soda from the vending machines.  However, over the past 20 yrs, the cost of soda more than doubled while the cost of payphone calls remained the same.  Therefore, the phone companies would be justified if they increased their prices for pay phone calls.

The answer was that the author's argument would be justified if vending machine equipment did not increase while the pay phone did not.

I picked the one that said the cost to produce a pay phone has increased or something.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 10:37:00 PM
Cost of chemicals needed to produce the soda increased??? Maybe???
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 10:37:20 PM
I think the one about the materials for soda is correct. I wasn't the one who said the vending equipment one was right. ;)

Kiss, I'm afraid that was incorrect. The answer was just "Modern sculpture is influenced by ancient" or something like that. I remember the choice you were talking about, too, but I do not believe it was correct.

I'm down for staying up for a few more hours, and I do remember my answer choices when people remember the problems...hehe. I have a final tomorrow which I haven't studied for, though. :(
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:38:10 PM
Cost of chemicals needed to produce the soda increased??? Maybe???

Yeah, soda ingredients' costs have gone up during the past 20 yrs.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 10:38:36 PM
there was one in the first LR, #17    something like 

Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.

What is the neceesary assumption:

B.  Intelligence does not imply conciosness

If you negate that you get: intelleigence implayd conciousness, which tears apart the argument.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: coffeeismylifesource on June 12, 2006, 10:39:12 PM
I just tried to post this but i'm not sure if it worked.

Anyhow

27. Heavy metal in landfills coming from circuit boards
Answer: Shouldn't incinerate appliances with heavy metals in them

I put the one about chloroflourocarbon...thoughts?


Also, for the rotten food one, I put "food that is not rotten is safe." thoughts?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 14 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 10:39:59 PM
The cost of a pay phone call cost a quarter in 1970, the same as soda from the vending machines.  However, over the past 20 yrs, the cost of soda more than doubled while the cost of payphone calls remained the same.  Therefore, the phone companies would be justified if they increased their prices for pay phone calls.

The answer was that the author's argument would be justified if vending machine equipment did not increase while the pay phone did not.

I don't think the question asked how to justify the argument. I think it asked what would weaken it. If the cost of the materials to produce soda increased, it would weaken the argument that phone companies should increase prices for phone calls, given no increase in payphone material prices.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 10:40:21 PM
Cost of chemicals needed to produce the soda increased??? Maybe???

Yeah, soda ingredients' costs have gone up during the past 20 yrs.

Do you remember if this was C/D?  I can't remember which I picked exactly
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: LawJedi on June 12, 2006, 10:40:45 PM
there was one in the first LR, #17    something like 

Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.

What is the neceesary assumption:

B.  Intelligence does not imply conciosness

If you negate that you get: intelleigence implayd conciousness, which tears apart the argument.

My pick as well.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 10:43:00 PM
i concur with materials of soda
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 10:43:04 PM
Coffee, the consensus regarding both of those questions is otherwise. Check a couple pages back for discussion.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 10:43:07 PM

My pick as well.

Mine also.  This one took me about 5 minutes.  God.  Worst time management on an exam, ever.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 14 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:43:20 PM
The cost of a pay phone call cost a quarter in 1970, the same as soda from the vending machines.  However, over the past 20 yrs, the cost of soda more than doubled while the cost of payphone calls remained the same.  Therefore, the phone companies would be justified if they increased their prices for pay phone calls.

The answer was that the author's argument would be justified if vending machine equipment did not increase while the pay phone did not.

I don't think the question asked how to justify the argument. I think it asked what would weaken it. If the cost of the materials to produce soda increased, it would weaken the argument that phone companies should increase prices for phone calls, given no increase in payphone material prices.

it was either it justifies if the prices for ingredients did not go up, OR weaken-the prices went up.  I am not sure here, but we know which answer is correct and it's all that matters ;)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Da5id on June 12, 2006, 10:43:35 PM
I picked, and I remember this specifically, the answer that was equivalent to:

"The production cost of soda has risen faster than the production cost of phone calls"

It wasn't as big a weaken as I wanted, but I hated the other four answers.

The question was to my memory definitely a weaken.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: 245 on June 12, 2006, 10:45:07 PM
there was one in the first LR, #17    something like 

Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.

What is the neceesary assumption:

B.  Intelligence does not imply conciosness

If you negate that you get: intelleigence implayd conciousness, which tears apart the argument.



For that one, I chose (A), that you need intelligence in order to do complex, goal-oriented behavior.  Basically, if that's the case, you can have intelligence without consciousness, which proves that having intelligence does NOT imply consciousness.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:45:10 PM
there was one in the first LR, #17    something like 

Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.

What is the neceesary assumption:

B.  Intelligence does not imply conciosness

If you negate that you get: intelleigence implayd conciousness, which tears apart the argument.

My pick as well.

I chose whatever answer tied intelligence to the qualities the humans were demonstrating non-consciously, because then you could equalize unconcious yet intellegent humans with unconscious yet intelligent animals.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 10:46:09 PM
I picked, and I remember this specifically, the answer that was equivalent to:

"The production cost of soda has risen faster than the production cost of phone calls"

It wasn't as big a weaken as I wanted, but I hated the other four answers.

yes, I think now that it was that the cost of producing soda increased more than the cost of phone calls, and the argument said that phone companies should charge the same amount as vending machines.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 10:46:17 PM
Someone jog my memory on this one. I didn't choose this answer.

I just thought of one which had something to do with a large country being split into smaller countries, and the answer was something like "smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent" which had to do with why they don't impose tariffs or economic restrictions or something.

I also vaguely remember a question which took place in 1990 and had to do with changes between the 1970s and 1990.

Yeah, the answer to this question was def. something about smaller countries not thinking of themselves as economically independent. From this, you could then reason that the tariffs mentioned in the stem wouldn't come to pass.

The stem was someone arguing that the splitting up of larger countries into smaller ones would be bad for the economy because it would create more tariffs, since all countries who consider themselves economically viable enact tariffs. The answer was somehow an exception which said that smaller countries don't consider themselves economically viable.

The key word here is self-sufficient, not economically viable. Countries that didn't see themselves as self-suffucient wouldn't enact tariffs and other barriers to trade, something to that effect
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 10:46:38 PM
can anyone give an idea of what letter the soda question was?  A/B/C/D ?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:47:07 PM
can anyone give an idea of what letter the soda question was?  A/B/C/D ?

I'm feeling D but I'm not sure at all.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 10:47:31 PM
can anyone give an idea of what letter the soda question was?  A/B/C/D ?

It was low, D or more likely E
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 10:48:10 PM
there was one in the first LR, #17    something like 

Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.

What is the neceesary assumption:

B.  Intelligence does not imply conciosness

If you negate that you get: intelleigence implayd conciousness, which tears apart the argument.



For that one, I chose (A), that you need intelligence in order to do complex, goal-oriented behavior.  Basically, if that's the case, you can have intelligence without consciousness, which proves that having intelligence does NOT imply consciousness.


Thats the sufficent assumption, but not necessary. If you negate it, the argument can still stand.   I.E.  negated form =(intelligence isnt needed for complex oriented behavior)   but then intelligence can still imply conciousness since all the stimulus said was that complex behvior DIDNT imply conciousness
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 16 TO GO! WE'RE ALMOST THERE DONT GIVE UP!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 10:49:03 PM
Someone jog my memory on this one. I didn't choose this answer.

I just thought of one which had something to do with a large country being split into smaller countries, and the answer was something like "smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent" which had to do with why they don't impose tariffs or economic restrictions or something.

I also vaguely remember a question which took place in 1990 and had to do with changes between the 1970s and 1990.

Yeah, the answer to this question was def. something about smaller countries not thinking of themselves as economically independent. From this, you could then reason that the tariffs mentioned in the stem wouldn't come to pass.



you're both talking about the same answer choice
The stem was someone arguing that the splitting up of larger countries into smaller ones would be bad for the economy because it would create more tariffs, since all countries who consider themselves economically viable enact tariffs. The answer was somehow an exception which said that smaller countries don't consider themselves economically viable.

The key word here is self-sufficient, not economically viable. Countries that didn't see themselves as self-suffucient wouldn't enact tariffs and other barriers to trade, something to that effect
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 10:49:57 PM
I really hope that I'm not dredging up something that's already been covered, but can anyone outline in more detail the stimulus for the "professor" question? I'm having trouble remembering the question at this point.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: 245 on June 12, 2006, 10:50:13 PM
there was one in the first LR, #17    something like 

Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.

What is the neceesary assumption:

B.  Intelligence does not imply conciosness

If you negate that you get: intelleigence implayd conciousness, which tears apart the argument.



For that one, I chose (A), that you need intelligence in order to do complex, goal-oriented behavior.  Basically, if that's the case, you can have intelligence without consciousness, which proves that having intelligence does NOT imply consciousness.


Thats the sufficent assumption, but not necessary. If you negate it, the argument can still stand.   I.E.  negated form =(intelligence isnt needed for complex oriented behavior)   but then intelligence can still imply conciousness since all the stimulus said was that complex behvior DIDNT imply conciousness

I disagree.  Choosing answer (B) would result in the opposite conclusion from the one we want.  Basically, the argument is that animals can be intelligent, but not necessarily conscious.

If intelligence implies consciousness, then animals that are intelligent ARE conscious.  That's not what the argument said.

I can't remember what the other three answer choices were--but I think they were pretty bad choices.  Does anyone else remember?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 10:50:33 PM
Did we already decide if these questions were experimental?

--the one about the mind/body connection (can we know everything about a person's motivation if we know everything biologically about his actions?}

--the two species, both of whom adapted to new enviornments but one of whom is extinct (something like this)

--the animals who needed larger amounts of food dying more easily than the animals who needed smaller amounts of food.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 12 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 10:52:08 PM
"you're both talking about the same answer choice
The stem was someone arguing that the splitting up of larger countries into smaller ones would be bad for the economy because it would create more tariffs, since all countries who consider themselves economically viable enact tariffs. The answer was somehow an exception which said that smaller countries don't consider themselves economically viable."

I agree, we are talking about the same answer choice. I'm trying to make sure the wording is correct because it's hardto use the master list if there's wording in the list answer (that you correctly selected) that wasn't in the test answer. In this case, I'm 99% sure it was self-sufficient, not economically viable, and it makes a difference as to how it's recorded.

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 12 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: steven90 on June 12, 2006, 10:54:17 PM
mike i think you are right. i chose e. that is the only thing that made any sense at all.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Da5id on June 12, 2006, 10:55:12 PM
Did we already decide if these questions were experimental?

--the one about the mind/body connection (can we know everything about a person's motivation if we know everything biologically about his actions?}

--the two species, both of whom adapted to new enviornments but one of whom is extinct (something like this)

--the animals who needed larger amounts of food dying more easily than the animals who needed smaller amounts of food.

real, ? and real.

Larger animals was "chance of extinction is affected by need for food". Cut and dry.

Mind/body connection was an absolute witch to me and one of the few I feel I very likely got wrong. Detailed info about which answers were there and the exact [phrasing would be VERY welcome.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 12 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 10:55:24 PM
Someone please clarify the consensus question and answer to the soda question so I can post it... a question that I cannot remember with any clarity.

The answer to the soda question was "the price of soda ingredients has gone up more than the price of telephone equipment" or some close paraphrase.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 10:55:53 PM
Did we already decide if these questions were experimental?

--the two species, both of whom adapted to new enviornments but one of whom is extinct (something like this)

--the animals who needed larger amounts of food dying more easily than the animals who needed smaller amounts of food.

I remember these 2 distinctly. I had an experimental though. If someone can confirm these to be real, I can probably jog my memory for the questions and answers.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 10:56:19 PM
Did we already decide if these questions were experimental?

--the one about the mind/body connection (can we know everything about a person's motivation if we know everything biologically about his actions?}

--the two species, both of whom adapted to new enviornments but one of whom is extinct (something like this)

--the animals who needed larger amounts of food dying more easily than the animals who needed smaller amounts of food.

First one is definitely not experimental, and the answer was that it assumes its conclusion.

Two species I believe are experimental.

Animals who needed larger amounts of food was not experimental, and I believe the answer had something to do with the supportable population being dependent on food availability.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 12 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 10:56:34 PM

Definetly on the test (not exp):

--the animals who needed larger amounts of food dying more easily than the animals who needed smaller amounts of food.

dont remember answer
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 10:57:49 PM
there was one in the first LR, #17    something like 

Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.

What is the neceesary assumption:

B.  Intelligence does not imply conciosness

If you negate that you get: intelleigence implayd conciousness, which tears apart the argument.



For that one, I chose (A), that you need intelligence in order to do complex, goal-oriented behavior.  Basically, if that's the case, you can have intelligence without consciousness, which proves that having intelligence does NOT imply consciousness.


Thats the sufficent assumption, but not necessary. If you negate it, the argument can still stand.   I.E.  negated form =(intelligence isnt needed for complex oriented behavior)   but then intelligence can still imply conciousness since all the stimulus said was that complex behvior DIDNT imply conciousness

I disagree.  Choosing answer (B) would result in the opposite conclusion from the one we want.  Basically, the argument is that animals can be intelligent, but not necessarily conscious.

If intelligence implies consciousness, then animals that are intelligent ARE conscious.  That's not what the argument said.

I can't remember what the other three answer choices were--but I think they were pretty bad choices.  Does anyone else remember?


exactly,  (B) says intelligence DOESNT imply conciousness

If this ISNT true, i.e. u negate it to say it DOES imply consciousness, then the argument falls apart.

Thus, (B) is a necessary assumption
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 10:58:37 PM
Did we already decide if these questions were experimental?

--the one about the mind/body connection (can we know everything about a person's motivation if we know everything biologically about his actions?}

--the two species, both of whom adapted to new enviornments but one of whom is extinct (something like this)

--the animals who needed larger amounts of food dying more easily than the animals who needed smaller amounts of food.

real, ? and real.

Larger animals was "chance of extinction is affected by need for food". Cut and dry.

Mind/body connection was an absolute witch to me and one of the few I feel I very likely got wrong. Detailed info about which answers were there and the exact [phrasing would be VERY welcome.

The physical/thought process stimulus had language like "even if we know everything physiological about an action/behaviour, we still can't know what motivated it. Imagine, for example, that we had access to every neurological, physical, etc. part of an action. We still wouldn't know what motivated it"

Problem was it assumed what it set out to prove (this wording is not accurate, but I'm quite sure of the answer).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 10:59:56 PM
Did we already decide if these questions were experimental?

--the one about the mind/body connection (can we know everything about a person's motivation if we know everything biologically about his actions?}

--the two species, both of whom adapted to new enviornments but one of whom is extinct (something like this)

--the animals who needed larger amounts of food dying more easily than the animals who needed smaller amounts of food.

real, ? and real.

Larger animals was "chance of extinction is affected by need for food". Cut and dry.

Mind/body connection was an absolute witch to me and one of the few I feel I very likely got wrong. Detailed info about which answers were there and the exact [phrasing would be VERY welcome.

The physical/thought process stimulus had language like "even if we know everything physiological about an action/behaviour, we still can't know what motivated it. Imagine, for example, that we had access to every neurological, physical, etc. part of an action. We still wouldn't know what motivated it"

Problem was it assumed what it set out to prove (this wording is not accurate, but I'm quite sure of the answer).


I 100% concur, "premise assumes the conclusion "  (circular reasoning)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 12 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 11:00:28 PM

Definetly on the test (not exp):

--the animals who needed larger amounts of food dying more easily than the animals who needed smaller amounts of food.

dont remember answer

Answer had something to do with "the possibility of extinction is in part due to the amount of food required/something about food supply" I'm a little fuzzy on this one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 12 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 11:00:37 PM
Just thought of a new one, but might be exp...

12 pounds of grain to feed 1 cattle. 1 cattle yields 1 pound of meat. Meat more nutritious than grain. Grain more capable of mass production. Too many hungry people in the world.

Anyone without exp LR remember this?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 12 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 11:01:08 PM
Just thought of a new one, but might be exp...

12 pounds of grain to feed 1 cattle. 1 cattle yields 1 pound of meat. Meat more nutritious than grain. Grain more capable of mass production. Too many hungry people in the world.

Anyone without exp LR remember this?

Experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 12 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 11:01:32 PM
Experimental-seconded.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 12 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 11:02:28 PM
On an amusing note, my experimental LR had an answer with a complete (and absolutely vital) word missing. And I still chose that one as the answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 12 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 11:03:31 PM
--the animals who needed larger amounts of food dying more easily than the animals who needed smaller amounts of food.
Answer had something to do with "the possibility of extinction is in part due to the amount of food required/something about food supply" I'm a little fuzzy on this one.

This was a gimme. It's pretty much what you wrote, and basically restated the argument.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 11 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 11:04:39 PM
I don't see the question about the mayor and city council member discussing campaign contributions. Did we decide this one was experimental?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 11 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: denk on June 12, 2006, 11:05:14 PM
Did anyone else find that one LR section was of average difficulty and one was unbelievable difficult?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 11 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 11:05:39 PM
I don't see the question about the mayor and city council member discussing campaign contributions. Did we decide this one was experimental?

I didn't have it--experimental.

Does anyone else feel like there were a super-high number of questions related to either government or animals?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 11 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 11:06:43 PM
did anyone have a question about charities not allowing their contributors to vote on their policies?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 11 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: wiretin on June 12, 2006, 11:07:02 PM
Regarding the question about independent countries and trade, I think the CR was the assumption that independent countries erected trade barriers. Maybe not in those words, but the stimulas never said that they did. I forget the wording of the ansnwer, but what independent countries consider themselves to be would have little bearing on the flow of trade IMO.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: jgd224 on June 12, 2006, 11:09:00 PM
for #1--the beauty vs. art assunpton--did anyone have as the answer something to the effect of the best art is not realistic or something weird like that... 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 11:09:25 PM
Paigeroo, # 22 and 31 on the list are the same question,  just has two majority answers  (Thesis vs. Medical procedure)

Im fairly certain it was thesis though.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Rodriguez43 on June 12, 2006, 11:14:50 PM
I am very sprry to ask this but how de we know that this is a ;lost of all non-experimetal section questions?  i havent read this entire thread b/c I am on my 9th beer.  sorry for being lazy.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 11 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 11:15:37 PM
did anyone have a question about charities not allowing their contributors to vote on their policies?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 11:17:14 PM
Anyone remember which of the questions already listed were among the final 3-4 of the harder LR section?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 11:18:51 PM
Anyone remember which of the questions already listed were among the final 3-4 of the harder LR section?

I think the one about atheletes and sugary sports drinks was.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 11 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 11:20:52 PM
I don't see the question about the mayor and city council member discussing campaign contributions. Did we decide this one was experimental?

Bump. If this was real, I'm sure the answer was "assumes that serving interst groups goes against the public good"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 11 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 11:21:45 PM
I don't see the question about the mayor and city council member discussing campaign contributions. Did we decide this one was experimental?

Bump. If this was real, I'm sure the answer was "assumes that serving interst groups goes against the public good"

experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: wiretin on June 12, 2006, 11:22:25 PM
How about the question regarding the resourse manager and the faltering ecosystems?

I think it was an assumption question. I wrote that one had to assume that if X and Y were met in a healthy ecosystem or something Z would not happen. I cant remember the specifics. I think this was a necessary assumption because without it,all the efforts of the resourse manager would amount to nothing.

Does anyone know what i'm talking about? It's geting late.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 11:23:53 PM
Wiretin, that's on the first page.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 11:24:27 PM
How about the question regarding the resourse manager and the faltering ecosystems?

I think it was an assumption question. I wrote that one had to assume that if X and Y were met in a healthy ecosystem or something Z would not happen. I cant remember the specifics. I think this was a necessary assumption because without it,all the efforts of the resourse manager would amount to nothing.

Does anyone know what i'm talking about? It's geting late.

I'm pretty sure that one's been consensused, and I'm equally sure the answer was something else. Sorry.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: wiretin on June 12, 2006, 11:25:33 PM
Nuts. I think it was an inference question and I choose an assumption. C'est la vie.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: polkadot on June 12, 2006, 11:30:06 PM
Does anyone remember the question about celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? I think the answer was that the person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: denk on June 12, 2006, 11:30:54 PM
Does anyone remember the question about celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? I think the answer was that the person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

Yes - ad hominem attack.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 11:31:12 PM
Does anyone remember the question about celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? I think the answer was that the person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

yes, but the answer choice seemed to be worded weirdly though.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 11:32:09 PM
Actually, about the forest one, there were two similar choices, one that "Some animals will not survive" and one about extinction. I think the first one that actually didn't mention extinction is correct, as I do not believe that the stimulus mentioned extinction.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: Da5id on June 12, 2006, 11:34:06 PM
Actually, about the forest one, there were two similar choices, one that "Some animals will not survive" and one about extinction. I think the first one that actually didn't mention extinction is correct, as I do not believe that the stimulus mentioned extinction.

One mentioned endangered animals specifically. That one was not TCR, IMO.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 11:34:28 PM
Does anyone remember the question about celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? I think the answer was that the person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

Can we get some confirmation that this is real?

The answer here is correct, but as someone said, it was worded strangely.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 12, 2006, 11:34:37 PM
Actually, about the forest one, there were two similar choices, one that "Some animals will not survive" and one about extinction. I think the first one that actually didn't mention extinction is correct, as I do not believe that the stimulus mentioned extinction.

It seemed to be talking about animals existing only because the plants are there to support them.  I agree, I guess if those animals don't survive, they may not necessarily become extinct if they're present somewhere else.  Hmm..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 11:35:22 PM
Does anyone remember the question about celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? I think the answer was that the person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

yes, but the answer choice seemed to be worded weirdly though.

What do you mean prangi?  Do you agree it was on the test and that was the correct answer or no?

yes, that's what the answer essentially meant.  But for some reason I thought that the way it was worded on the test was rather convoluted.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: denk on June 12, 2006, 11:37:27 PM
Actually, about the forest one,... I think the first one that actually didn't mention extinction is correct, as I do not believe that the stimulus mentioned extinction.

Yes, the Stimulus DID mention extinction, BUT:

It connected the sets with statements "Some animals...", a couple of times.  In other words, there seems like there could be a law of excluded middle.  IE., the affected forests might not be the ones where the animals in danger of extinction were.  Something along those lines, which is why I didn't go for that answer choice, but rather the more conservative one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 11:37:48 PM
Does anyone remember the question about celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? I think the answer was that the person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

Can we get some confirmation that this is real?

The answer here is correct, but as someone said, it was worded strangely.

This one was one my test for sure, but I had experimental LR. If someone with a different exp. section had it, then it's good to go to the list. That was the correct answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: squirt10 on June 12, 2006, 11:41:53 PM
Does anyone remember the question about celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? I think the answer was that the person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

Can we get some confirmation that this is real?

The answer here is correct, but as someone said, it was worded strangely.

This one was one my test for sure, but I had experimental LR. If someone with a different exp. section had it, then it's good to go to the list. That was the correct answer.

Not experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 11:42:27 PM
Actually, about the forest one,... I think the first one that actually didn't mention extinction is correct, as I do not believe that the stimulus mentioned extinction.

Yes, the Stimulus DID mention extinction, BUT:

It connected the sets with statements "Some animals...", a couple of times.  In other words, there seems like there could be a law of excluded middle.  IE., the affected forests might not be the ones where the animals in danger of extinction were.  Something along those lines, which is why I didn't go for that answer choice, but rather the more conservative one.

That must've been it, then. I don't think the extinction bit was connected to those animals. I think maybe the extinction choice said something like "Many" as well, which led to me choosing something else.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 11:42:48 PM
Probably exp, but might as well give it a shot...

Some guy buys a new gas machine thing. New gas machine thing is more efficient than old one. Guy's gas bill increases. Explain.

Anyone?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 11:44:28 PM
Probably exp, but might as well give it a shot...

Some guy buys a new gas machine thing. New gas machine thing is more efficient than old one. Guy's gas bill increases. Explain.

Anyone?

didn't have it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 11:45:21 PM
Did anyone have a question about anti-lock breaks reducing multi-car collision, yet if car manufacturers want to save lives they should stop making cars with anti-lock breaks?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 10 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW POST IT!
Post by: 245 on June 12, 2006, 11:47:02 PM
Does anyone remember the question about celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? I think the answer was that the person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

Can we get some confirmation that this is real?

The answer here is correct, but as someone said, it was worded strangely.

Yes, I think that's the correct answer.  It wasn't worded weird though...the answer said something like "The person is attacking the source of the argument, rather than the argument."  The stimulus was a bit confusing though.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: squirt10 on June 12, 2006, 11:47:51 PM
Did anyone have a question about anti-lock breaks reducing multi-car collision, yet if car manufacturers want to save lives they should stop making cars with anti-lock breaks?

Yes; I chose the antilock breaks==>sense of security==> no seatbelts answer, I think.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 11:48:07 PM
I had the ABS question; I just realized we talked about it in another thread but not here. Answer was seat belts I believe.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: 245 on June 12, 2006, 11:48:16 PM
Did anyone have a question about anti-lock breaks reducing multi-car collision, yet if car manufacturers want to save lives they should stop making cars with anti-lock breaks?

I had it, but I also had LR experimental.  I chose the answer about the seatbelts and false confidence that drivers/passengers get when they're in cars with ABS.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 11:48:42 PM
Did anyone have a question about anti-lock breaks reducing multi-car collision, yet if car manufacturers want to save lives they should stop making cars with anti-lock breaks?

I had this one. Answer was ABS made people more likely to not wear seatbelts.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: orangie on June 12, 2006, 11:48:59 PM
Did anyone have a question about anti-lock breaks reducing multi-car collision, yet if car manufacturers want to save lives they should stop making cars with anti-lock breaks?

Yes

yeah, the asnwer was that people who drive those cars do not wear seat belts.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: denk on June 12, 2006, 11:49:11 PM
Did anyone have a question about anti-lock breaks reducing multi-car collision, yet if car manufacturers want to save lives they should stop making cars with anti-lock breaks?

Yes

Had this too - but I had exp. LR.

My answer was "people tended not to wear seatbelts".
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 12, 2006, 11:49:20 PM
Did anyone have a question about anti-lock breaks reducing multi-car collision, yet if car manufacturers want to save lives they should stop making cars with anti-lock breaks?

YES, definetely not EXP.

it was an Explain question, and it was when u have anti lock brakes, you're less likely to wear seatbelts.  Book it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: Schruted on June 12, 2006, 11:49:52 PM
Did anyone have a question about anti-lock breaks reducing multi-car collision, yet if car manufacturers want to save lives they should stop making cars with anti-lock breaks?

I had it, but I also had LR experimental.  I chose the answer about the seatbelts and false confidence that drivers/passengers get when they're in cars with ABS.

100%. Just hope it's real.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 9 TO GO! IF YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING NEW DONT BE SHY!
Post by: squirt10 on June 12, 2006, 11:51:22 PM
Lol, everyone chimed in on that one.  Is all of this really going to help anyone decide whether or not to cancel?  It's difficult to judge any of this stuff when you don't have the questions in front of you.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 12, 2006, 11:53:35 PM
I think so. Now if only I knew that I missed as few as the Master list is missing. ;)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 12, 2006, 11:59:17 PM
I may not be the first or last to say it, but thank you Paigeroo for your tireless effort on this one. I'm amazed every time I refresh and see a lower number, and a new phrase to spur us on. Cheers.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 12:01:53 AM
Okay, I know there was a ‘role of the statement question’... and I am fairly sure the answer was 'the conclusion of the argument'.   I remember that I had one in my experimental section, and one in my 4th LR section.  Can any of you recall a role of the statement question?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 12:02:40 AM
I still think #11 is wrong.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 12:08:24 AM
This may be experimental as well, but what about the oxygen in the ice caps and in the sea?  ... Ringing any bells?   Answer: ice caps grow for 20 years then begin to melt.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 12:08:34 AM
Okay, I know there was a ‘role of the statement question’... and I am fairly sure the answer was 'the conclusion of the argument'.   I remember that I had one in my experimental section, and one in my 4th LR section.  Can any of you recall a role of the statement question?


I specifically remember a question (i didnt have exp lr)  that asked for the role of a claim,
and the answer choices were like     1.  a complete explanation    2. a premise that supports the [verbatim  conclusion]
   3.  a premise that supports something other than the conlusion..   4. an explaination not used as support or something...


I chose #2 and was fairly certain of it
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 12:08:59 AM
This may be experimental as well, but what about the oxygen in the ice caps and in the sea?  ... Ringing any bells?   Answer: ice caps grow for 20 years then begin to melt.

that was exp
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 12:11:08 AM
Okay, I know there was a ‘role of the statement question’... and I am fairly sure the answer was 'the conclusion of the argument'.   I remember that I had one in my experimental section, and one in my 4th LR section.  Can any of you recall a role of the statement question?


I specifically remember a question (i didnt have exp lr)  that asked for the role of a claim,
and the answer choices were like     1.  a complete explanation    2. a premise that supports the [verbatim  conclusion]
   3.  a premise that supports something other than the conlusion..   4. an explaination not used as support or something...


I chose #2 and was fairly certain of it


Again, i had the LR experimental section, so all of the LR blends together.  Sorry I cant be of more help on this one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 12:12:04 AM
Okay, I know there was a ‘role of the statement question’... and I am fairly sure the answer was 'the conclusion of the argument'.   I remember that I had one in my experimental section, and one in my 4th LR section.  Can any of you recall a role of the statement question?


I specifically remember a question (i didnt have exp lr)  that asked for the role of a claim,
and the answer choices were like     1.  a complete explanation    2. a premise that supports the [verbatim  conclusion]
   3.  a premise that supports something other than the conlusion..   4. an explaination not used as support or something...


I chose #2 and was fairly certain of it


I think I remember this question.  It was about Fed Res curbing inflation by raising interest rates, leading to public backlash, because inflation is not obvious for a few years.

I also chose #2.  I think it corresponded with answer (C).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 12:12:50 AM
Okay, I know there was a ‘role of the statement question’... and I am fairly sure the answer was 'the conclusion of the argument'.   I remember that I had one in my experimental section, and one in my 4th LR section.  Can any of you recall a role of the statement question?


I specifically remember a question (i didnt have exp lr)  that asked for the role of a claim,
and the answer choices were like     1.  a complete explanation    2. a premise that supports the [verbatim  conclusion]
   3.  a premise that supports something other than the conlusion..   4. an explaination not used as support or something...


I chose #2 and was fairly certain of it


This was the one about the bank adjusting interest rates that take two years to affect inflation, right?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 12:13:59 AM
11. Resource manager and fragmented forests
Answer: some animals or plants would be in danger of extinction if no intervention


hmm.. I did feel kinda iffy on this one

I remeber there were Two choices that it came down to...

One said forests in general (didnt say fragmented) so it was ruled out.

Other was more general i.e. the concensus answer  some endangered animals or plants would be in danger of extinction if no intervention was made at all.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 12:15:25 AM
Okay, I know there was a ‘role of the statement question’... and I am fairly sure the answer was 'the conclusion of the argument'.   I remember that I had one in my experimental section, and one in my 4th LR section.  Can any of you recall a role of the statement question?


I specifically remember a question (i didnt have exp lr)  that asked for the role of a claim,
and the answer choices were like     1.  a complete explanation    2. a premise that supports the [verbatim  conclusion]
   3.  a premise that supports something other than the conlusion..   4. an explaination not used as support or something...


I chose #2 and was fairly certain of it


I think I remember this question.  It was about Fed Res curbing inflation by raising interest rates, leading to public backlash, because inflation is not obvious for a few years.

I also chose #2.  I think it corresponded with answer (C).

can anyone verify this question that only had 2 LR sections?

It was there.  One answer choice dealt with "public wrath" and the other dealt with "Backlash"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 12:16:59 AM
I didnt have  a exp lr section, the role question is defintely real
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 12:18:44 AM
Okay, I know there was a ‘role of the statement question’... and I am fairly sure the answer was 'the conclusion of the argument'.   I remember that I had one in my experimental section, and one in my 4th LR section.  Can any of you recall a role of the statement question?


I specifically remember a question (i didnt have exp lr)  that asked for the role of a claim,
and the answer choices were like     1.  a complete explanation    2. a premise that supports the [verbatim  conclusion]
   3.  a premise that supports something other than the conlusion..   4. an explaination not used as support or something...


I chose #2 and was fairly certain of it


I think I remember this question.  It was about Fed Res curbing inflation by raising interest rates, leading to public backlash, because inflation is not obvious for a few years.

I also chose #2.  I think it corresponded with answer (C).

can anyone verify this question that only had 2 LR sections?

It was there.  One answer choice dealt with "public wrath" and the other dealt with "Backlash"

My writing prompt was almost exactly the same as this LR argument. That's how I remember it, but I had exp LR.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 12:19:07 AM
11. Resource manager and fragmented forests
Answer: some animals or plants would be in danger of extinction if no intervention


hmm.. I did feel kinda iffy on this one

I remeber there were Two choices that it came down to...

One said forests in general (didnt say fragmented) so it was ruled out.

Other was more general i.e. the concensus answer  some endangered animals or plants would be in danger of extinction if no intervention was made at all.

I believe the second, more general one was correct, but it didn't mention extinction or endangerment. I believe the stimulus only indicated that some animals depended on the forests. It then said that without intervention, the forests would die.

Gyges has now put it better than I could.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 12:20:36 AM
The inflation one - something like "Economists curb inflation by raising interest rates..."

And I think the answer I chose said something like "an explanation/support for the phenomenon described in the first line (that economists curb inflation by...".  It is very possible that I'm confusing this with another question and/or that my answer is incorrect.

Definitely right question, not sure about answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 12:23:07 AM
Does anyone remember more about the question? What kind of question was it and what exactly was it asking about?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 12:23:23 AM
The answer to the inflation question was obvious, I thought. It was like, can you identify a premise in the argument?

As we get to the last couple questions, I'm assuming (and hoping) that they're obvious like this one and that's why people don't remember them well.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 12:24:21 AM
For the mythological horses question, does anyone remember if the answer choice was (A)?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:28:42 AM
For the mythological horses question, does anyone remember if the answer choice was (A)?

no, i think it was E
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 12:30:10 AM
For the horse one I chose, "Maybe they were consciously afraid of horses." 

Can anyone tell/prove why this is wrong?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:30:45 AM
The inflation one - something like "Economists curb inflation by raising interest rates..."

And I think the answer I chose said something like "an explanation/support for the phenomenon described in the first line (that economists curb inflation by...".  It is very possible that I'm confusing this with another question and/or that my answer is incorrect.

Definitely right question, not sure about answer.

I put down that it was a premise that supported the conclusion.  Anyone agree/disagree?

agree.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 12:31:16 AM
The horse question was pretty tough considering it was #6..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: Corgi on June 13, 2006, 12:31:35 AM
The inflation one - something like "Economists curb inflation by raising interest rates..."

And I think the answer I chose said something like "an explanation/support for the phenomenon described in the first line (that economists curb inflation by...".  It is very possible that I'm confusing this with another question and/or that my answer is incorrect.

Definitely right question, not sure about answer.

I put down that it was a premise that supported the conclusion.  Anyone agree/disagree?

I believe for the answer there were two that were premise conclusion... the two answer choices each had different conclusions listed.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:31:57 AM
For the horse one I chose, "Maybe they were consciously afraid of horses." 

Can anyone tell/prove why this is wrong?

umm, then there wouldn't be the general regard of horses as kind and loving animals, would there?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 12:32:39 AM
The inflation one - something like "Economists curb inflation by raising interest rates..."

And I think the answer I chose said something like "an explanation/support for the phenomenon described in the first line (that economists curb inflation by...".  It is very possible that I'm confusing this with another question and/or that my answer is incorrect.

Definitely right question, not sure about answer.

I put down that it was a premise that supported the conclusion.  Anyone agree/disagree?

I believe for the answer there were two that were premise conclusion... the two answer choices each had different conclusions listed.


YES.  One was supporting the final conclusion (my choice), and the other was ... something weird. (I forget)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 8 TO GO! HOLY CRAP ALMOST DONE!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:33:00 AM
The inflation one - something like "Economists curb inflation by raising interest rates..."

And I think the answer I chose said something like "an explanation/support for the phenomenon described in the first line (that economists curb inflation by...".  It is very possible that I'm confusing this with another question and/or that my answer is incorrect.

Definitely right question, not sure about answer.

I put down that it was a premise that supported the conclusion.  Anyone agree/disagree?

I believe for the answer there were two that were premise conclusion... the two answer choices each had different conclusions listed.


I think the correct one was the first one that had premise-conclusion pair. (C?)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 12:33:42 AM
For the horse one I chose, "Maybe they were consciously afraid of horses." 

Can anyone tell/prove why this is wrong?

umm, then there wouldn't be the general regard of horses as kind and loving animals, would there?

Hmm... was the operant word, "regard"?  I guess that makes sense.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 12:35:08 AM
The inflation one - something like "Economists curb inflation by raising interest rates..."

And I think the answer I chose said something like "an explanation/support for the phenomenon described in the first line (that economists curb inflation by...".  It is very possible that I'm confusing this with another question and/or that my answer is incorrect.

Definitely right question, not sure about answer.

I put down that it was a premise that supported the conclusion.  Anyone agree/disagree?

I believe for the answer there were two that were premise conclusion... the two answer choices each had different conclusions listed.


I think the correct one was the first one that had premise-conclusion pair. (C?)
Right, i remember one conclusion was similar but tweaked a bit from the stimulus, so i chose the other one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 12:35:20 AM
Ok, going back a bit here, but I'm not sure if I buy the reasoning behind the Timber and Chemicals question. What exactly is it in the stem that suggests that the main conclusion could be "Further testing is necessary"?

The stem was the editorial saying that the thing was "safe", but it pointed out a possible alternative source of contamination.  IE, eating the freaking thing.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 12:36:04 AM
Yeah, it says it doesn't know the effect if ingested or anything.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:36:15 AM
Ok, going back a bit here, but I'm not sure if I buy the reasoning behind the Timber and Chemicals question. What exactly is it in the stem that suggests that the main conclusion could be "Further testing is necessary"?

it said that it's considered safe; however, ... (something about possible adverse effects)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 12:36:33 AM
Ok, going back a bit here, but I'm not sure if I buy the reasoning behind the Timber and Chemicals question. What exactly is it in the stem that suggests that the main conclusion could be "Further testing is necessary"?
The stem was a "partial explanation at best" type of stem.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 12:36:43 AM
Ok, going back a bit here, but I'm not sure if I buy the reasoning behind the Timber and Chemicals question. What exactly is it in the stem that suggests that the main conclusion could be "Further testing is necessary"?

I think the stem states something like, "People do not believe testing is necessary for outdoor timber because it is used outdoors, where any harmful chemicals diffuse into the air."
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:37:47 AM
For the horse one I chose, "Maybe they were consciously afraid of horses." 

Can anyone tell/prove why this is wrong?

umm, then there wouldn't be the general regard of horses as kind and loving animals, would there?

Hmm... was the operant word, "regard"?  I guess that makes sense.
yes, it said that it's weird that the mythological image of those creatures is scary and evil considering that horses were regarded as/considered kind and loving animals.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:39:02 AM
That doesn't in any way imply that testing is necessary however. It does suggest that there is more danger than was previously thought. Which, er, was one of the other answer choices...

I am also reasonably confident that the word "testing" never appeared in the stem.

it might not have been 'testing', but something like more info is needed or we need to find out more.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 12:40:50 AM
It says the effects of two things, specifically the wood in children's playground equipment and plant feeders, should be further researched, because of the possibility of children putting their mouths on the wood and chemicals seeping into the soil and thus plants and being consumed.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 13, 2006, 12:43:44 AM
thank you, paige, for organizing this amazing effort.  you really should run for office.  after looking over this thread, i can sleep a little sounder tonight.  thanks everyone who contributed!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 12:45:17 AM
The testing question is correct as is.

I had two thoughts when I went to bed, and got up again to post them. Can anyone who didn't have experimental LR cross-reference these?

One about how more people were exposed to cleaning agents and lawn chemicals than prescription meds, asked for the principle.

One about sampling 10 000 cars being driven on major streets in cities, found that 30% or more of drivers were dangerous.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:46:31 AM
The testing question is correct as is.

I had two thoughts when I went to bed, and got up again to post them. Can anyone who didn't have experimental LR cross-reference these?

One about how more people were exposed to cleaning agents and lawn chemicals than prescription meds, asked for the principle.

One about sampling 10 000 cars being driven on major streets in cities, found that 30% or more of drivers were dangerous.

I had an experimental, and I had your first question and did not have the 2nd one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 12:47:05 AM
I remember an EXPLAIN question...about profits... 2nd lr

Oil company...excessive regulation -> bad?... Since we're not the highest profiting company...Must be the case of excessive regulation

 
Answer was like...:  loose regulation doesnt necessarily mean that the company has to make the highest profit



Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:48:15 AM
I think the answer was that the author presumes that only when the company has the highest profits can they invest money in research.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 12:49:42 AM
The testing question is correct as is.

I had two thoughts when I went to bed, and got up again to post them. Can anyone who didn't have experimental LR cross-reference these?

One about how more people were exposed to cleaning agents and lawn chemicals than prescription meds, asked for the principle.

One about sampling 10 000 cars being driven on major streets in cities, found that 30% or more of drivers were dangerous.


So add this one tommorw, and the profits one  and then we need 5 more


the 2nd one was experimental, the first Was DEFINTELY one the real one.

the question was like:
Since more people use cleaning agents for lawn mowers then prescription meds, cleaning agensts have more potential harm.
Thus, cleaning agents shoulds be more carefully tested then meds.

What is the principle:

Ans: If somehting has more potential for harm than another, it should be more carefully tested.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:51:11 AM
The testing question is correct as is.

I had two thoughts when I went to bed, and got up again to post them. Can anyone who didn't have experimental LR cross-reference these?

One about how more people were exposed to cleaning agents and lawn chemicals than prescription meds, asked for the principle.

One about sampling 10 000 cars being driven on major streets in cities, found that 30% or more of drivers were dangerous.

the first one had a D or E for an answer.  It was like, we should research chemicals more extensively than medicine because those substances can harm more people from extensive contact, or something like it, I don't really remember.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:52:41 AM
I'm still reasonably sure that the phrasing of that stem was actually "further research has shown children may become sick from eating" rather than "further research is required because children might eat". Anyone sure enough about the stem to be positive?

the stem did not say that the reseach provided those results.  It was a suggestion that it may happen.

The conclusion was the sentence immediately preceeding the story about children eating paint.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 12:56:55 AM
Also not on the main list (so thats 47 total with this one, the oil profit one, and the Lawnmower/perscription meds)

Number 15 on the second LR.

Proposal  :  Under this proposal if A - > B, and if A ->C,    but since B and C are conflicting,  A cannot happen.

How does the argument proceed:

Ans. is somehting like : A.  under this proposal, would make a conflicting situation that cant work
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 12:58:53 AM
Also not on the main list (so thats 47 total with this one, the oil profit one, and the Lawnmower/perscription meds)

Number 15 on the second LR.

Proposal  :  Under this proposal if A - > B, and if A ->C,    but since B and C are conflicting,  A cannot happen.

How does the argument proceed:

Ans. is somehting like : A.  under this proposal, would make a conflicting situation that cant work

I don't remember this one.

ALso, did anyone have a question that asked "What question needs to be asked to evaluate the argument"?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 01:00:25 AM
The testing question is correct as is.

I had two thoughts when I went to bed, and got up again to post them. Can anyone who didn't have experimental LR cross-reference these?

One about how more people were exposed to cleaning agents and lawn chemicals than prescription meds, asked for the principle.

One about sampling 10 000 cars being driven on major streets in cities, found that 30% or more of drivers were dangerous.


So add this one tommorw, and the profits one  and then we need 5 more


the 2nd one was experimental, the first Was DEFINTELY one the real one.

the question was like:
Since more people use cleaning agents for lawn mowers then prescription meds, cleaning agensts have more potential harm.
Thus, cleaning agents shoulds be more carefully tested then meds.

What is the principle:

Ans: If somehting has more potential for harm than another, it should be more carefully tested.

To clarify further, I think this is the answer: If something is used by more people, it should be more carefully tested.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 01:02:38 AM
I'm really searching the bottom of the barrel now, but does anyone remember something like this...

A -> C
B -> C

Answer: The author combines (I know this is not the right word) two reasonings to draw the conclusion.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 01:04:59 AM
To clarify further, I think this is the answer: If something is used by more people, it should be more carefully tested.

Ah hah. No... I believe that another choice was correct: If something puts more people at risk, it should be more carefully tested.


I remember that there were those two competing answers.  I went back and re-read the stem, and saw that "risk" was the word used.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: crazyape on June 13, 2006, 01:05:26 AM
4.  Principle of efficient workers
Answer: Missed beginning of meeting to get on the phone with an important client

--Could this one possibly have been the option about spending an entire afternoon working on a project? I remember the principle had something to do with risk taking, and it seems like spending a whole afternoon on a project is way riskier than showing up late to the meeting. Or did I miss something obvious?

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 01:06:04 AM
If I'm thinking of the same question (flaw in the argument?), I think my answer was something along the lines of the argument assumed that because ___ had higher profits (can't remember waht it was compared to), the oil companies didnt bring in enough profit to search for more oil that society needs (or something)

I believe it was that it incorrectly assumed something about the profits not being the highest meaning that it could not afford to do the risky and expensive prospecting that was necessary to get enough oil for energy or whatever.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 01:06:17 AM
I'm really searching the bottom of the barrel now, but does anyone remember something like this...

A -> C
B -> C

Answer: The author combines (I know this is not the right word) two reasonings to draw the conclusion.

Yes - I remember this one.  (Had 3 LR sections, though.)  Can't remember any of the choices yet.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 01:06:32 AM
To clarify further, I think this is the answer: If something is used by more people, it should be more carefully tested.

Ah hah. No... I believe that another choice was correct: If something puts more people at risk, it should be more carefully tested.


I remember that there were those two competing answers.  I went back and re-read the stem, and saw that "risk" was the word used.

I agree.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 01:07:46 AM
4.  Principle of efficient workers
Answer: Missed beginning of meeting to get on the phone with an important client

--Could this one possibly have been the option about spending an entire afternoon working on a project? I remember the principle had something to do with risk taking, and it seems like spending a whole afternoon on a project is way riskier than showing up late to the meeting. Or did I miss something obvious?

Yeah ... this question SUCKED.   What I recall is that the spending the whole afternoon was for doing very mundane, unrisky work - answering routine emails, I believe.  So I didn't chose it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 01:08:43 AM
4.  Principle of efficient workers
Answer: Missed beginning of meeting to get on the phone with an important client

--Could this one possibly have been the option about spending an entire afternoon working on a project? I remember the principle had something to do with risk taking, and it seems like spending a whole afternoon on a project is way riskier than showing up late to the meeting. Or did I miss something obvious?



the stimulus said that efficient workers sometimes diss the deadlines and schedules (missing the meeting) to do something that may bring the company profit if successful or loss if not (taking to a big account on the phone-could go either good or bad).  The project did not have two alternatives to choose from, imo.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 01:12:36 AM
I'm really searching the bottom of the barrel now, but does anyone remember something like this...

A -> C
B -> C

Answer: The author combines (I know this is not the right word) two reasonings to draw the conclusion.

I think it was a method of reasoning question.  The answer that I chose was something like 'presents two provisions and uses them to present a situation that cannot occur'... is this the same one?  Did it have something to do with airlines? (random thought - maybe it didn't)

yea thats the right answer, its the same one i posted

Number 15 on the second LR... 

Proposal  :  Under this proposal if A - > B, and if A ->C,    but since B and C are conflicting,  A cannot happen.

How does the argument proceed:

Ans. is somehting like : A.  under this proposal, would make a conflicting situation that cant work
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: echog on June 13, 2006, 01:14:54 AM
Yeap!
A ,the two provisions lead to unacceptability...
and E or D?,STH like two provisions controvertial ...
I choose A, but E or D is little tempting
Also not on the main list (so thats 47 total with this one, the oil profit one, and the Lawnmower/perscription meds)

Number 15 on the second LR.

Proposal  :  Under this proposal if A - > B, and if A ->C,    but since B and C are conflicting,  A cannot happen.

How does the argument proceed:

Ans. is somehting like : A.  under this proposal, would make a conflicting situation that cant work
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 01:15:26 AM


Ans. is somehting like : A.  under this proposal, would make a conflicting situation that cant work

Wow, everyone's choosing this one.  But I didn't see a conflict between B and C.  Does anyone remember what it was?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 01:16:20 AM


Ans. is somehting like : A.  under this proposal, would make a conflicting situation that cant work

Wow, everyone's choosing this one.  But I didn't see a conflict between B and C.  Does anyone remember what it was?

I have no idea what everyone is talking about here.  Does anyone remember what it was about?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 01:17:05 AM


Ans. is somehting like : A.  under this proposal, would make a conflicting situation that cant work

Wow, everyone's choosing this one.  But I didn't see a conflict between B and C.  Does anyone remember what it was?

I didn't see a conflict, either. We're probably discussing two completely different questions.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 01:18:12 AM
It was about a new factory law. It said that factories that make automobiles under this law would have to be registered as Class B factories, and that any Class B factory must maintain punctual inspections. Thus, an automobile factory(or something logically equivalent at this point) cannot postpone inspections.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 01:19:35 AM
It was about a new factory law. It said that factories that make automobiles under this law would have to be registered as Class B factories, and that any Class B factory must maintain punctual inspections. Thus, an automobile factory(or something logically equivalent at this point) cannot postpone inspections.

I remember the question now, but not the answer :-\
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 01:21:28 AM
Another possible new one we missed..

Mammals compared to ?frogs? or some kind of reptiles????  stimulus saids that humans _____ are inconclusive?

Anyone remember specifics?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 01:22:13 AM
The answer was A, he used two things about the proposed law to infer a contradiction.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: orangie on June 13, 2006, 01:23:22 AM
Another possible new one we missed..

Mammals compared to ?frogs? or some kind of reptiles????  stimulus saids that humans _____ are inconclussive?

Anyone remember specifics?

don't remember this one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 01:25:21 AM
The answer was A, he used two things about the proposed law to infer a contradiction.

the wording for this question was confusing, although I definitely agree it was A. It didn;t state there was a contradiction, but that the two laws "combined to specify an unacceptable state of affairs", which required some interpretation before realizing it was the right answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 01:32:01 AM
I specifically remember one about mammals/humans, just dont remember anythign else about it
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 01:34:27 AM
Was it about pain?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 01:37:56 AM
It didn;t state there was a contradiction, but that the two laws "combined to specify an unacceptable state of affairs", which required some interpretation before realizing it was the right answer.

Exactly!  And that's why I didn't chose this answer (contradiction.) :-(  I re-read the thing several times to see what was "unacceptable".  That sounds like a value judgement to me.

Upon re-reading the stem, it sounded to me like the speaker was possibly a govt inspector, or at least on the side of the drafter of the proposed rule.  And so, to me, it seemed just as likely (or more so), that the "state of affairs" was very acceptable.  IE, the proposed bill's logic works to ensure that regular inspections are done in auto plants.

???????
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: kbb on June 13, 2006, 01:40:10 AM
hey all i'll have to go through the pages i've missed in the morning but just some quick observations and questions from the main page:


9. Professor talking smack about another professor
Answer: attacking the character rather than the arg

- i still don't remember this one... can someone give me a quick description of some of the other answer choices and the rest of the stimulus?


14. Music/Math Parallel Reasoning question
Answer: not paying attention/poor class performance/bad hearing

- i remember this one but don't remember what the stimulus or the answer choices were about... could someone give me a quick refresher (or point me to one that's already been done)

32. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also. What needs to be assumed?
Answer: Computers cannot efficiently analyze proofs.

- i'm pretty sure i picked E for this one (or D... it was a late one)... the reason behind it having either to do with efficiency or the fact computers were not independent or something? is that the answer people are agreeing on or no?

33. Museum shows special exhibits and on those days there are more ticket sales but the visitors stay a shorter amount of time.  This question asked for the choice that DOES NOT explain the discrepancy.
Answer: Museum did not extend hours when it had special exhibits.

- does anyone remember some of the other contenders?  i'm almost certain i didn't pick this and was quite sure about my other answer, but i can't remember what it was for the life of me.

38. Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.
Answer: What is the neceesary assumption: Intelligence does not imply conciosness

- i picked A (the only answer with "complex goals") - is that one def. wrong?

44. Fed Res curbing inflation by raising interest rates, leading to public backlash, because inflation is not obvious for a few years.  What role did it play in the argument question
Answer: A premise that supports the conclusion

- if i remember correctly there were two answers that both said "a premise supporting the conclusion" - they were different conclusions though... the first one (C maybe?) was wrong i think... it listed another premise as a conclusion... a later answer was correct, listing the main conclusion as the conclusion the first sentence supported. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Corgi on June 13, 2006, 01:53:48 AM
It didn;t state there was a contradiction, but that the two laws "combined to specify an unacceptable state of affairs", which required some interpretation before realizing it was the right answer.

Exactly!  And that's why I didn't chose this answer (contradiction.) :-(  I re-read the thing several times to see what was "unacceptable".  That sounds like a value judgement to me.

Upon re-reading the stem, it sounded to me like the speaker was possibly a govt inspector, or at least on the side of the drafter of the proposed rule.  And so, to me, it seemed just as likely (or more so), that the "state of affairs" was very acceptable.  IE, the proposed bill's logic works to ensure that regular inspections are done in auto plants.

???????

Oh well don't feel alone I didn't see the contradiction (and honestly still dont)  :-\
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 02:00:37 AM
The contradiction is between the idea of "delaying inspections" and that particular factory being an automobile factory, and thus a Class B, etc.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 02:03:42 AM
The contradiction is between the idea of "delaying inspections" and that particular factory being an automobile factory, and thus a Class B, etc.

Ok... but can we drop the use of "contradiction" for the moment?  (Because that's not how the problem was worded, right?)

So, to prod you a bit... why was the state of affairs unacceptable?  I don't see it yet.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:04:14 AM

14. Music/Math Parallel Reasoning question
Answer: not paying attention/poor class performance/bad hearing

The parallell reasoning was to match the reasoning that A and B dont need to cause each other, but could be caused by a third alternate cause. 



32. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also. What needs to be assumed?
Answer: Computers cannot efficiently analyze proofs.

computers can analzye the parts of the proof   i.e. humans need to


38. Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.
Answer: What is the neceesary assumption: Intelligence does not imply conciosness

this one is 100% correct

44. Fed Res curbing inflation by raising interest rates, leading to public backlash, because inflation is not obvious for a few years.  What role did it play in the argument question
Answer: A premise that supports the conclusion

One answer had the conclusion verbatim (seriously like the last sentence copied pasted) , other had a wierd claim and was automatically crossed off
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:08:40 AM
It was about a new factory law. It said that factories that make automobiles under this law would have to be registered as Class B factories, and that any Class B factory must maintain punctual inspections. Thus, an automobile factory(or something logically equivalent at this point) cannot postpone inspections.


there is more to the stimulis, some kinda conditional  like  under this law  factories that make  automobiles must to be registered as class b factories , and under this law class b factories are required to have regular puntual inspections.
Thus, If a factory makes automobiles under this law, they cannot postpone inspections.

How does this argument proceed:
A.  law would lead to state of unacceptable affairs
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 02:12:08 AM
It was about a new factory law. It said that factories that make automobiles under this law would have to be registered as Class B factories, and that any Class B factory must maintain punctual inspections. Thus, an automobile factory(or something logically equivalent at this point) cannot postpone inspections.

there is more to the stimulis, some kinda conditional  like  under this law  factories that make  automobiles must to be registered as class b factories , and under this law class b factories are required to have regular puntual inspections.
Thus, If a factory makes automobiles under this law, they cannot postpone inspections.

Er...that appears to be what I wrote.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 02:13:43 AM
Thus, If a factory makes automobiles under this law, they cannot postpone inspections.

How does this argument proceed:
A.  law would lead to state of unacceptable affairs

I agree with the first sentence: "If a factory makes automobiles under this law, they cannot postpone inspections."  And that is ENTIRELY the intent of the law.

Why would one say that the "law would lead to state of unacceptable affairs"?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:16:51 AM
Thus, If a factory makes automobiles under this law, they cannot postpone inspections.

How does this argument proceed:
A.  law would lead to state of unacceptable affairs

I agree with the first sentence: "If a factory makes automobiles under this law, they cannot postpone inspections."  And that is ENTIRELY the intent of the law.

Why would one say that the "law would lead to state of unacceptable affairs"?


Question asks how the argument proceeds, the Answer says something like  "Application of the law would lead to an unacceptable state of affairs if the conclusion is not correct"   or something similar
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 02:19:42 AM

Question asks how the argument proceeds, the Answer says something like  "Application of the law would lead to an unacceptable state of affairs if the conclusion is not correct"   or something similar


Oh ... so there was a negation at the end of that answer?  In other words, there is NOT an unacceptable state of affairs?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 02:22:53 AM
Er, the conclusion of the stimulus is that they will not be able to avoid inspections. They do this by showing that it would lead to a contradiction, or "an unacceptable state of affairs."
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 02:29:00 AM
Er, the conclusion of the stimulus is that they will not be able to avoid inspections. They do this by showing that it would lead to a contradiction, or "an unacceptable state of affairs."

Hey I don't mean to bug you, but I'm just hoping that I got this right. :-)

That said, what then is the contradiction?

This argument sounds circular to me:

"They won't be able to avoid inspections"

"They show this by creating a contradiction"

"The contradiction is that they won't be able to avoid inspections"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: WildCardz on June 13, 2006, 02:29:22 AM
33. Museum shows special exhibits and on those days there are more ticket sales but the visitors stay a shorter amount of time.  This question asked for the choice that DOES NOT explain the discrepancy.
Answer: Museum did not extend hours when it had special exhibits.

More specifically, the answer choice was like "The museum considered extending hours, but decided not to"
Does that sound familiar? Or is that a wrong answer choice?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: WildCardz on June 13, 2006, 02:34:46 AM
44. Fed Res curbing inflation by raising interest rates, leading to public backlash, because inflation is not obvious for a few years.  What role did it play in the argument question
Answer: A premise that supports the conclusion

- if i remember correctly there were two answers that both said "a premise supporting the conclusion" - they were different conclusions though... the first one (C maybe?) was wrong i think... it listed another premise as a conclusion... a later answer was correct, listing the main conclusion as the conclusion the first sentence supported. 

Yep, the later one was correct. The first answer choice started out the same, but referred to something that wasn't the conclusion.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Groundhog on June 13, 2006, 02:36:51 AM
WildCardz: I believe that was the credited response, yes.

Denk: Ok..hm, let's see.

The stimulus is something to the effect of:
There is a proposed law such that if it is enacted would require automobile factories to be licensed as Class B factories. In other words, if you are an automobile producing factory, you must be licensed as a Class B factory. Then, it states that Class B factories require regular punctual inspections. Thus, under the law, the factory would not be able to postpone inspections.

The question asks how the argument proceeds, or what the argument strategy is.
The answer is that it derives a contradiction, for postponing inspections would contradict the requirement of punctual inspections. So it derived an "unacceptable state of affairs," or a contradiction, because you can't have regular inspections and then not regular inspections.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: echog on June 13, 2006, 02:52:38 AM
I'm sure one question is about Evaluation, can't remember the detail
Any idea?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: denk on June 13, 2006, 03:01:46 AM
Groundhog - Thanks!  I now completely understand your reasoning.  I'll be stubborn and disagree, though - and even though I don't even remember the other choices.  But I *do* now understand the logic.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: WildCardz on June 13, 2006, 03:06:20 AM

38. Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.
Answer: What is the neceesary assumption: Intelligence does not imply conciosness

this one is 100% correct

I'm sorry to do this with my first post while I've come in from having a couple.  But...

You have to assume the conclusion of the argument to properly draw the conclusion?  That seems off to me.  The conclusion of the argument is that Intelligence does not imply consciousness.  It would see that the assumption must link the following.

Premise: Complex goals --> does not imply consciousness
Conclusion:  Intelligence --> does not imply consciousness

Assumption: Complex goals require intelligence.

I believe that was answer A?

But then again, I'm Japanese-American, and Japan lost today, America lost today, and some evil lady with a stopwatch made me write in cursive...which was easily the most difficult part of the test.  And to top it off...perhaps its more than "a couple" that I've had.  So what do I know?

I actually agree with your answer. I didn't post anything earlier because I wasn't entirely confident in my choice. However, I did take a quick look at the other choices and the logic didn't seem right, at least not intuitively.

If your recollection of the premise/conclusion is correct, that assumption would seem to make sense.

Can anyone take another look at this?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 03:32:38 AM

38. Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.
Answer: What is the neceesary assumption: Intelligence does not imply conciosness

this one is 100% correct

I'm sorry to do this with my first post while I've come in from having a couple.  But...

You have to assume the conclusion of the argument to properly draw the conclusion?  That seems off to me.  The conclusion of the argument is that Intelligence does not imply consciousness.  It would see that the assumption must link the following.

Premise: Complex goals --> does not imply consciousness
Conclusion:  Intelligence --> does not imply consciousness

Assumption: Complex goals require intelligence.

I believe that was answer A?

But then again, I'm Japanese-American, and Japan lost today, America lost today, and some evil lady with a stopwatch made me write in cursive...which was easily the most difficult part of the test.  And to top it off...perhaps its more than "a couple" that I've had.  So what do I know?

I actually agree with your answer. I didn't post anything earlier because I wasn't entirely confident in my choice. However, I did take a quick look at the other choices and the logic didn't seem right, at least not intuitively.

If your recollection of the premise/conclusion is correct, that assumption would seem to make sense.

Can anyone take another look at this?



lol, I think tapper just pointed out a "fatal mistake" that I sometimes do on the LSAT that is like a cardinal sin....
Something thats in the stimulus cant be an assumption....

I think your answer is correct now, damn...

It all rests on the exact wording of the conclusion,  if it said  intelligence doesnt prove that animals have conciousness then mine would be right,  on the other hand if it said that intelligence wouldnt suggest that animals have consciouness your would be right.

Under the "proof" conclusion your's would be a sufficent assumption while mine would be a necessary one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: dusya4 on June 13, 2006, 04:43:28 AM
I think I also picked A) on that one: complex ideas require intelligence. Hopefully that's the correct answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: dusya4 on June 13, 2006, 04:46:58 AM

44. Fed Res curbing inflation by raising interest rates, leading to public backlash, because inflation is not obvious for a few years.  What role did it play in the argument question
Answer: A premise that supports the conclusion

One answer had the conclusion verbatim (seriously like the last sentence copied pasted) , other had a wierd claim and was automatically crossed off

Usually when an answer choice repeats any part of the stimulus verbatim, it's incorrect. I didn't think that this particular premise supported the final conclusion. I was pretty confident that the answer was the other one (I think it was C)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: dusya4 on June 13, 2006, 04:51:09 AM
I didn't think that the answer to the one about large countries being split into smaller countries was that smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent. The answer had to link tariffs or the lack of thereof and there was an another answer choice that spoke to that, IMO.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: dusya4 on June 13, 2006, 05:01:04 AM
I didn't think that the answer to the one about large countries being split into smaller countries was that smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent. The answer had to link tariffs or the lack of thereof and there was an another answer choice that spoke to that, IMO.
it wasn't.  that the smaller countries don't think of themselves as self-sufficient was given in the stimulus.  the answer was "if a country doesn't think of itself as self-sufficient, then it won't use protectice tariffs."

Yep that's what I picked.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 05:03:43 AM
I think I also picked A) on that one: complex ideas require intelligence. Hopefully that's the correct answer.

I fourth this--I remember having to choose that answer because it was the only answer that tied complex ideas to actual intellegence, and therefore the only one that equated intellegent yet non-conscious humans with intellegent yet non-conscious animals--i.e. it was an assumption the argument had to make to be correct in the end.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 06:05:03 AM
okay i have 2 more.  i had the experimental lr, though, so those of you who didn't confirm that these were on the test.

-stimulus: attracting tourism v. attracting auto manufacturers.  both would create the same number of jobs.  it would be reasonable to spend the money to attract auto manufacturers.
question: which of the following is best supported by the above?

answer: i didn't really know.  i picked "it would be reasonable to spend the money to attract tourism," but i don't know if that's right.

-stimulus: librarian didn't want to use this journal anymore because:
a. library can't used biased materials
b. journal publishers started new journal where publishers pay to be reviewed
question: which principle supports the librarian's decision?

answer: something like "if a publishing company allows people to pay to appear in any of its publications, then it is biased"  or something like that.   

I think these were experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: echog on June 13, 2006, 06:08:25 AM
Experimental
definitely
okay i have 2 more.  i had the experimental lr, though, so those of you who didn't confirm that these were on the test.

-stimulus: attracting tourism v. attracting auto manufacturers.  both would create the same number of jobs.  it would be reasonable to spend the money to attract auto manufacturers.
question: which of the following is best supported by the above?

answer: i didn't really know.  i picked "it would be reasonable to spend the money to attract tourism," but i don't know if that's right.

-stimulus: librarian didn't want to use this journal anymore because:
a. library can't used biased materials
b. journal publishers started new journal where publishers pay to be reviewed
question: which principle supports the librarian's decision?

answer: something like "if a publishing company allows people to pay to appear in any of its publications, then it is biased"  or something like that.   
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 06:10:56 AM

1.Answer: The most beautiful things are the best art
Minority opinion: The assumption is simply that "the best" = "beautiful".


40. Mind/body connection (can we know everything about a person's motivation if we know everything biologically about his actions?)
Answer: Assumes its conclusion


I'm having some trouble remembering my exact answer for a few questions.  Would anyone by any chance remember the letter they put for these.  (Particularly, I don't remember which was A and which was C on #1)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: dusya4 on June 13, 2006, 06:13:10 AM

1.Answer: The most beautiful things are the best art
Minority opinion: The assumption is simply that "the best" = "beautiful".


40. Mind/body connection (can we know everything about a person's motivation if we know everything biologically about his actions?)
Answer: Assumes its conclusion


I'm having some trouble remembering my exact answer for a few questions.  Would anyone by any chance remember the letter they put for these.  (Particularly, I don't remember which was A and which was C on #1)

A was that the most beautiful art is the best and C was best = beautiful.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 06:14:16 AM
Thanks Dusy.  I put C then, so I guess I'm in the "minority" on that one.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: dusya4 on June 13, 2006, 07:04:37 AM
Thanks Dusy.  I put C then, so I guess I'm in the "minority" on that one.

That's what I put too so we are in the minority together.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: koebe23 on June 13, 2006, 07:11:29 AM
I've got one, the formal logic about Mary, or somebody, or can't work on the board and isn't authorized about the position.
I chose that she can't have conflicts of interest because that would negate her being on the board of a pharmaceutical company and lead to the conclusion.

Also, I disagree with #27. I wouldn't have gone with the heavy metals shouldn't be burned cuase it was a judgment on a must be true question, so I went with chloroflourocarbons are harmful, even though it was obvious.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: johnson on June 13, 2006, 07:19:07 AM
hello all,

not sure if this was an exp question cuz i had 3 LRs.....something about Newton and calculating orbits but not having to know the composition of the planets...had to do with gravitational forces
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 07:20:49 AM
hello all,

not sure if this was an exp question cuz i had 3 LRs.....something about Newton and calculating orbits but not having to know the composition of the planets...had to do with gravitational forces
Experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: dusya4 on June 13, 2006, 07:24:19 AM
I've got one, the formal logic about Mary, or somebody, or can't work on the board and isn't authorized about the position.
I chose that she can't have conflicts of interest because that would negate her being on the board of a pharmaceutical company and lead to the conclusion.

Also, I disagree with #27. I wouldn't have gone with the heavy metals shouldn't be burned cuase it was a judgment on a must be true question, so I went with chloroflourocarbons are harmful, even though it was obvious.

It wasn't a judgement. The stimulus specifically said that metals are harmful to the environment if incinerated. So if an appliance contains heavy metals, it shouldn't be incinerated. Sure it's common knowledge that CFC's are bad for the environment, but the stimulus didn't say/imply that.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 07:33:02 AM
Does any remember the question about type B Factories and automobile Factories?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: rarara on June 13, 2006, 07:33:33 AM
Not sure if this helps. . .

but I am relatively sure we dont have any answers from the begininning of either section

Also. . .

again nitpicking the already made answers BUT I thought that for the DRs and RIGHTS question had a different answer:  It was ridiculous but the one that said: humans have rights and objects do not.  and it made sense to me at the time.

Yeah, I chose the "Because persons have rights, objects do not" answer for the basic right question. I didn't choose the "basic rights cannot be violated" because in the Question stem it says anything else carries the risk of treating the patients as mere objects, not persons. Even if basic rights can be violated, it is still consistant with the statement in the question stem. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 07:35:35 AM
A was that the most beautiful art is the best and C was best = beautiful.

I think C was more restrictive than that, otherwise I remember wanting to pick it.
Something like "Only the best art is beautiful" or "Only beautiful art is the best". Anyone else remember this? A and C were clearly the only two possible correct answers.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: johnson on June 13, 2006, 07:42:58 AM
i remember that one about the type B and automible factory thing....but then again i had 3LRs. did everyone have this one or is it exp? i don't remember the answer though
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 07:44:08 AM
For the prehistoric tools one, can we agree or disagree that the answer choice needs to address CREATION and not use of tools?  The prehistoric people may very well have been capable of using them, but unable to create.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 31 TO GO!
Post by: Raoul Duke on June 13, 2006, 07:44:25 AM
More thoughts on this please.

I definitely think it was the rights-objects answer

Also the automobile question was on the test, I need some options though to tell you what i got.

Not sure if this helps. . .

but I am relatively sure we dont have any answers from the begininning of either section

Also. . .

again nitpicking the already made answers BUT I thought that for the DRs and RIGHTS question had a different answer:  It was ridiculous but the one that said: humans have rights and objects do not.  and it made sense to me at the time.

Yeah, I chose the "Because persons have rights, objects do not" answer for the basic right question. I didn't choose the "basic rights cannot be violated" because in the Question stem it says anything else carries the risk of treating the patients as mere objects, not persons. Even if basic rights can be violated, it is still consistant with the statement in the question stem. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 07:44:58 AM
i remember that one about the type B and automible factory thing....but then again i had 3LRs. did everyone have this one or is it exp? i don't remember the answer though

I just chose E even though it didn't quite fit.  Something about infers about an analagous situation.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 07:45:18 AM
Also, for the master list, paigeroo is creditting the answer to be "Many sophisticated tools were made by people who walk upright",
but i'm 90% sure that wasn't an answer and it in fact said many BASIC tools..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 07:46:23 AM
Also, for the master list, paigeroo is creditting the answer to be "Many sophisticated tools were made by people who walk upright",
but i'm 90% sure that wasn't an answer and it in fact said many BASIC tools..

I believe the wording was "advanced weapons" in TCR.  Another incorrect answer mentioned basic tools.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 07:47:29 AM
21. Most computer programmers are highly paid
Answer: Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

For this one, didn't the answer choice say the same thing except "MANY of Mary's classmates are patient"

Or did it specifically match up and say AT LEAST one? Because Many = some = at least one, but i still had to consider it for a moment.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 07:48:59 AM
Also, for the master list, paigeroo is creditting the answer to be "Many sophisticated tools were made by people who walk upright",
but i'm 90% sure that wasn't an answer and it in fact said many BASIC tools..

I believe the wording was "advanced weapons" in TCR.  Another incorrect answer mentioned basic tools.
Right.  that's the one I picked, but that was talking about FINDING advanced weapons.  I think both the creditted and minority for this postmortem Q are wrong.  It's gotta be advanced weapons.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 07:55:44 AM
Does anyone remember a question, and I think this was touched on earlier, about perhaps the production of automobiles?  I remember picking and answer that included something about two statements either proving something or conflicting, I can't really remember.  I think it may have been choice A.

Sorry for the, um, vagueness.;)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: squirt10 on June 13, 2006, 07:56:52 AM
I've got one, the formal logic about Mary, or somebody, or can't work on the board and isn't authorized about the position.
I chose that she can't have conflicts of interest because that would negate her being on the board of a pharmaceutical company and lead to the conclusion.

Also, I disagree with #27. I wouldn't have gone with the heavy metals shouldn't be burned cuase it was a judgment on a must be true question, so I went with chloroflourocarbons are harmful, even though it was obvious.

For the one about the pharm. board director disclosing her investments, I chose the answer that was something like "all of her "disclosure requirements" are set by the pharm board" or something like that.  I think it was an assumption question and the answer was ~D.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: rena123 on June 13, 2006, 08:00:05 AM
Does anyone remember a question, and I think this was touched on earlier, about perhaps the production of automobiles?  I remember picking and answer that included something about two statements either proving something or conflicting, I can't really remember.  I think it may have been choice A.

Sorry for the, um, vagueness.;)

yeah i had A for that two.  it was something like applying two conditions to come up with an unacceptable state of affairs. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: bigapple on June 13, 2006, 08:05:53 AM
Can anyone remember any of the other answer choices from the Anti Lock break question? I just cant remember what I put.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 08:09:24 AM
Does anyone remember a question, and I think this was touched on earlier, about perhaps the production of automobiles?  I remember picking and answer that included something about two statements either proving something or conflicting, I can't really remember.  I think it may have been choice A.

Sorry for the, um, vagueness.;)

yeah i had A for that two.  it was something like applying two conditions to come up with an unacceptable state of affairs. 

So in the stimulus the the state of affairs was unacceptable?  I thought the conclusion simply stated that Automobile plants can delay inspection.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 30 TO GO!
Post by: rarara on June 13, 2006, 08:14:56 AM
Yeah, it was C.

It said that a new medical procedure designed to cure a disease might not save lives because of an increased risk during the procedure.

I also picked the one about the media reporting twice as many violent crime things.

I'm fairly sure I didn't choose the medical procedure one--does anyone remember other choices besides the paintings and the procedure?

I think I chose A and it's prob not medical procdedure or painting. Sorry it's so vague, but does that help someone to remember other choices?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 08:16:35 AM
Does anyone remember a question, and I think this was touched on earlier, about perhaps the production of automobiles?  I remember picking and answer that included something about two statements either proving something or conflicting, I can't really remember.  I think it may have been choice A.

Sorry for the, um, vagueness.;)

yeah i had A for that two.  it was something like applying two conditions to come up with an unacceptable state of affairs. 

So in the stimulus the the state of affairs was unacceptable?  I thought the conclusion simply stated that Automobile plants can delay inspection.
Does anyone remember a question, and I think this was touched on earlier, about perhaps the production of automobiles?  I remember picking and answer that included something about two statements either proving something or conflicting, I can't really remember.  I think it may have been choice A.

Sorry for the, um, vagueness.;)

yeah i had A for that two.  it was something like applying two conditions to come up with an unacceptable state of affairs. 

So in the stimulus the the state of affairs was unacceptable?  I thought the conclusion simply stated that Automobile plants can delay inspection.
This one was tough because you had to connect that postponing inspections was an unacceptable state of affairs.  none of the other answers really made sense so this was easy to eliminate the other possibilities.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 08:17:22 AM
21. Most computer programmers are highly paid
Answer: Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

For this one, didn't the answer choice say the same thing except "MANY of Mary's classmates are patient"

Or did it specifically match up and say AT LEAST one? Because Many = some = at least one, but i still had to consider it for a moment.
Anybody?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: jgd224 on June 13, 2006, 08:24:36 AM
i agree that the human rights question the assumption required and thus the correct answer was something about objects having/not having rights cant remember the exact wording
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: jgd224 on June 13, 2006, 08:25:51 AM
for #1 the beauty vs. art question, does anyone remember whether any of the answer chices dealt with "realistic art" or something like that as one of the possible answer choices?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: dusya4 on June 13, 2006, 08:25:58 AM
21. Most computer programmers are highly paid
Answer: Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

For this one, didn't the answer choice say the same thing except "MANY of Mary's classmates are patient"

Or did it specifically match up and say AT LEAST one? Because Many = some = at least one, but i still had to consider it for a moment.
Anybody?

I chose A for that one, which did have the AT LEAST one part in it. I had a couple extra minutes at the end of the section so I drew out the diagram for both the stimulus and the two answer choices that seemed like they could be right and A matched.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 08:26:45 AM
i agree that the human rights question the assumption required and thus the correct answer was something about objects having/not having rights cant remember the exact wording

I picked the other on.  The current credited response, but was also unsure about this.  Mike245, you seem to really remember the questions quite well, any thoughts on this?;)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 08:27:23 AM
21. Most computer programmers are highly paid
Answer: Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

For this one, didn't the answer choice say the same thing except "MANY of Mary's classmates are patient"

Or did it specifically match up and say AT LEAST one? Because Many = some = at least one, but i still had to consider it for a moment.
Anybody?

I chose A for that one, which did have the AT LEAST one part in it. I had a couple extra minutes at the end of the section so I drew out the diagram for both the stimulus and the two answer choices that seemed like they could be right and A matched.
I'm pretty sure it was B or C.  I too used formal logic, and something about A didn't line up right.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: dusya4 on June 13, 2006, 08:31:40 AM
i agree that the human rights question the assumption required and thus the correct answer was something about objects having/not having rights cant remember the exact wording

I picked the other on.  The current credited response, but was also unsure about this.  Mike245, you seem to really remember the questions quite well, any thoughts on this?;)

The question talked about a conflic of duty of the doctors and the basic right of the patient. The question was about the principle that would make the conclusion work and I chose the the basic rights must be obeyed. The one about objects not having rights didn't seem to jive with the conclusion.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: dusya4 on June 13, 2006, 08:33:05 AM
hey, i don't remember these 2 questions at all.  can someone give more detail?


9. Professor talking smack about another professor
Answer: attacking the character rather than the arg


15. HDL Cholesterol
Answer: HDLS not leaving the blood as easily


I remember the HDL v. LDL cholesterol one. It was a weaken or strengthen question or maybe a weaken/strengthen EXCEPT question.



Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 08:35:57 AM
Anyone with more detail about the "Professor talking smack" question? I don't remember it either.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 13, 2006, 08:39:04 AM
I think the professor question was an experimental? I had only two LR sections, and I don't remember that question.

as to the rights vs. objects, I believe the author ended with "if we do not respect these rights, we are treating the humans like objects than like humans". In order to reach this conclusion (as I recall it), I think he or she would have to distinguish between the humans and objects having rights. I know I said this before, but i'm desperately trying to save my answer for this question  :-\. Not to knock other's answers, but I feel like there is still room for interpretation here. As for the 'basic human rights' answer, nowhere in the question does the word 'basic' come in. Even if 'basic human rights are inviolable', the rights of the patient to know may not be 'basic'. That was when I eliminated it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 08:39:16 AM
cool, thanks, i remember now.  i have no recollection of my answer though.  that is frustrating.  probably means i picked the wrong answer.


FWIW, I don't have the faintest recollection of my answer either, but I remember the question being easy so I hope that I just picked it without a second thought, but who knows.:S
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 13, 2006, 08:45:04 AM
oh crap, didn't remember that!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 08:51:09 AM
What are we deciding on the answer for this one? And does it involve Objects? Because that's waht I put..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: tmastro on June 13, 2006, 08:53:41 AM
Hey guys, I read trough the first 18 pages of this thread, but am now just going to offer some thoughts on a few problems from the master list:

Quote
10. Humans walking upright and the tools used
Answer: Many sophisticated tools were made by people who don't walk upright
Minority opinion: No difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates

On this one I seem to remember that there was a disconnect between the stimulus and a few tempting answer choises over using tools versus making tools. I think I chose the answer about spears, but I may be wrong on that.

Quote
32. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also. What needs to be assumed?
Answer: Computers cannot efficiently analyze proofs.

For this one I think the answer was more along the lines of "using computers to analyze parts of proofs is unacceptable." The conclusion of the stimulus was disconnected because it made a value judgement, acceptability, that came out of nowhere.

Quote
17. Distribution of herbal something to increase profits- principle question
Answer: If authorities dont think something will be medically effective it shouldn't be something used to increase profits

On this one I think the key was that the action would not be profitable (which was the reason for doing it). The answer I chose said that you should not do something if the purpose for doing it won't be fulfilled.

Quote
40. Mind/body connection (can we know everything about a person's motivation if we know everything biologically about his actions?)
Is there any chance that the answer to this had to do with the fact that a weak analogy was used?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 23 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: rarara on June 13, 2006, 08:54:04 AM
These are majority answers as they are being hashed out in other threads- this list is constantly being updated- Stay Tuned!
5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure


Am I the only one who chose the answer, "assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property.

I chose that answer, and still think it's the best option.

Is that E or D? I chose E that has "can be best understood" in it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 08:57:34 AM
i agree that the human rights question the assumption required and thus the correct answer was something about objects having/not having rights cant remember the exact wording

Exactly! Thank you!  This was my line of reasoning as well.. It simply looks too much like all of the past assumption questions, plus the 'objects' statement is coming from left field and needs that support to stand.  I am sticking with that answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 08:57:57 AM
21. Most computer programmers are highly paid
Answer: Most garderners are patient
Most of Mary's classmates are gardneres
At least one of Mary's classmates is patient

For this one, didn't the answer choice say the same thing except "MANY of Mary's classmates are patient"

Or did it specifically match up and say AT LEAST one? Because Many = some = at least one, but i still had to consider it for a moment.
Anybody?

I chose A for that one, which did have the AT LEAST one part in it. I had a couple extra minutes at the end of the section so I drew out the diagram for both the stimulus and the two answer choices that seemed like they could be right and A matched.
I'm pretty sure it was B or C.  I too used formal logic, and something about A didn't line up right.  

Can anyone else comment on this? It's bugging me for some reason, though i'm pretty confident i got it..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 08:58:33 AM
i agree that the human rights question the assumption required and thus the correct answer was something about objects having/not having rights cant remember the exact wording

Exactly! Thank you!  This was my line of reasoning as well.. It simply looks too much like all of the past assumption questions, plus the 'objects' statement is coming from left field and needs that support to stand.  I am sticking with that answer.
Objects definetely needed to be in the answer choice. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: tmastro on June 13, 2006, 08:58:58 AM
Also, for this question:

Quote
2.  Pollen question
Answer: People and wind move pollen

The answer I chose was that there is very little knowledge about where ancient plants grew. This seemed to highlight the gap between the present day and the ancient times the scientists were trying to learn about. I figured that the movement of pollen could be reasonably accounted for since they were studying movement patterns anyway.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 09:00:03 AM
More than 1 person who only had two LR sections, please verify that the ad hominem professor attack was or wasn't on the exam.

I don't remember the question, and I didn't have 3 LR.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:00:35 AM
I don't remember it either, but i could be mistaken.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 09:01:54 AM
i agree that the human rights question the assumption required and thus the correct answer was something about objects having/not having rights cant remember the exact wording

Exactly! Thank you!  This was my line of reasoning as well.. It simply looks too much like all of the past assumption questions, plus the 'objects' statement is coming from left field and needs that support to stand.  I am sticking with that answer.

I remember clearly.  It wasn't an assumption question.  It was a justify the conclusion question disguised as an assumption question (e.g. which one of the following if assumed).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: tmastro on June 13, 2006, 09:03:25 AM
Quote
for 17, i think i said that if a number of reliable sources agree that a new product line will be ineffective, it will not succeed in making profits.  or something like that.  something that talked about reliable sources and ineffective?  anyone remember that choice?

I think your right, I remember the answer being very similar to that now.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 09:05:00 AM
Does anyone remember a question, and I think this was touched on earlier, about perhaps the production of automobiles?  I remember picking and answer that included something about two statements either proving something or conflicting, I can't really remember.  I think it may have been choice A.

Sorry for the, um, vagueness.;)

yeah i had A for that two.  it was something like applying two conditions to come up with an unacceptable state of affairs. 

So in the stimulus the the state of affairs was unacceptable?  I thought the conclusion simply stated that Automobile plants can delay inspection.

I remember this question.  The stimulus stated three things: (1) The Factory Act has mandated that which factories can have permits to make cars, (2) In order to receive a permit, the factories must be inspected, (3) therefore, no factory can have a permit without being inspected.

I also chose (A), which is the response about two conditions defining an impossible event (factories not getting permits without being inspected).  This was on the second LR (real).

I'm probably wrong.  I don't see the contradiction.  In a real life situation, what's wrong with being allowed to have permits but being required to be inspected without delay first?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:05:18 AM
Quote
for 17, i think i said that if a number of reliable sources agree that a new product line will be ineffective, it will not succeed in making profits.  or something like that.  something that talked about reliable sources and ineffective?  anyone remember that choice?

I think your right, I remember the answer being very similar to that now.
Was there just one answer choice that actualyl dealt with profits or were there two?  The first couple of answer choices were tempting because they dealt with "If experts say it's ineffective, then it's ineffective" and things like that.  I wnet with something to do with experts and profit.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 24 TO GO! PLEASE CONTRIBUTE!
Post by: rarara on June 13, 2006, 09:07:02 AM
hello everyone.  i remember several more questions:

there was a question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also.  then the stimulus introduced a computer that analyzed the proofs.  i don't remember what i chose for the answer... i struggled with this one.  

Quote

I think this one said something about having to be idependetly proved, and I chose the answer that said even using independet computer programs wouldn't ensure "independently prooof."

Anyone remember this?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Futballer on June 13, 2006, 09:11:49 AM
I'm gonna throw this out there, how reliable do you guys think this master list is to measure ones performance on the LR section?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:12:50 AM
I think it's a good measure.  In retrospect the questions become much easier.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 09:13:32 AM
I'm gonna throw this out there, how reliable do you guys think this master list is to measure ones performance on the LR section?

I don't know how reliable it is, in all honesty.  I think that everyone has done a great job so far (lord knows I can't remember that many questions!!) but I think we should keep hashing it out and new people should give their opinions because it's very important for people who are borderline on cancelling, I think.  And yes, I say this from self-interest.;)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Moose513 on June 13, 2006, 09:16:30 AM

2.  Pollen question
Answer: People and wind move pollen


Was that the same answer as pollen is common.  I see to remember thinking that was the answer because if the pollen was common in many parts of the world than you can not verify where it comes from.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 09:17:23 AM
i agree that the human rights question the assumption required and thus the correct answer was something about objects having/not having rights cant remember the exact wording

Exactly! Thank you!  This was my line of reasoning as well.. It simply looks too much like all of the past assumption questions, plus the 'objects' statement is coming from left field and needs that support to stand.  I am sticking with that answer.

I remember clearly.  It wasn't an assumption question.  It was a justify the conclusion question disguised as an assumption question (e.g. which one of the following if assumed).

Yes... You are right, the question asked which of the following is assumed to draw the conclusion.  Therefore being an assumption question.  Go ahead an open a LSAT study book and check that one out.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 13, 2006, 09:17:46 AM
For the doctor's question where the majority response is "Basic rights are inviolable", I concur because it asked which assumption supports the conclusion of the stimulus, and the conclusion was given in the first or second sentence.  It seemed like the object thing was just a demonstration of the principle that was being set forth, not actually drawing a conclusion there, and was meant to distract
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Bork on June 13, 2006, 09:17:53 AM
Ok. I didnt have an exp LR.  Lets see...have we hit all the disagreement questions? Man...i can't remember!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:21:04 AM
What question # was the basic rights being inviable?  If it's in the early or mid teens then I'm willing to guarantee it needs to have the word OBJECT in the answer choice.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 09:22:46 AM
What question # was the basic rights being inviable?  If it's in the early or mid teens then I'm willing to guarantee it needs to have the word OBJECT in the answer choice.  

 I would bet against you.  :)  Like Nixon said, it wasn't an assumption question.  If it were, you'd be right.  But the stem asked us to justify/support the conclusion.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 13, 2006, 09:22:54 AM

2.  Pollen question
Answer: People and wind move pollen


Was that the same answer as pollen is common.  I see to remember thinking that was the answer because if the pollen was common in many parts of the world than you can not verify where it comes from.

Those answers weren't the same.  I was thinking along those lines, too, but several of the answers implied that the pollen would come from different regions, including the one you mention.  Even if true, the scientists could "narrow" down which regions are likely the originators of the artifact with accuracy.  However, if the pollen moved, then the accuracy of the method is shot because the pollen from different areas is blown by the wind to cover artifacts that may be far away.   The difference I see it is like:

You buy a bag that says JC Penney's.  There are many stores in the world, but you can get a basic idea of where it would be.  Now, if you had a bag that had come from JC Penney's but someone snatched the logo and put Sears on it instead, your method for identifying the bag would lead to an incorrect result.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 13, 2006, 09:24:13 AM
What question # was the basic rights being inviable?  If it's in the early or mid teens then I'm willing to guarantee it needs to have the word OBJECT in the answer choice. 

 I would bet against you.  :)  Like Nixon said, it wasn't an assumption question.  If it were, you'd be right.  But the stem asked us to justify/support the conclusion.

Well, it said which of these needs to be assumed to make the conclusion valid.  Seemed like the object thing was extraneous to the conclusion
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: jgd224 on June 13, 2006, 09:26:06 AM
For the doctor's question where the majority response is "Basic rights are inviolable", I concur because it asked which assumption supports the conclusion of the stimulus, and the conclusion was given in the first or second sentence.  It seemed like the object thing was just a demonstration of the principle that was being set forth, not actually drawing a conclusion there, and was meant to distract

I guess i am not too clear on that question...ill defer to those who remember the wording more accurately...for some reason i just cant get it out of my mind the phrase "if we do, we risk treating humans like mere objects..." and the assumption needed to confer upon objects the characteristic of "not having any rights" in order for the conclusion to work.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 09:26:20 AM
What question # was the basic rights being inviable?  If it's in the early or mid teens then I'm willing to guarantee it needs to have the word OBJECT in the answer choice.  

I am 100% sure of this 'human vs. objects' answer.  Willing to put money on it if I have any takers?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:27:29 AM
According to the LR bible, justify questions use the mechanistic approach as well where terms that appear in the premise but not in the conclusion (or vice versa) almost invariably appear in the answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 13, 2006, 09:27:47 AM
I guess the answer for this one depends on figuring out what the correct conclusion was. I thought the conclusion was the last sentence, but other's have suggested it happens earlier on. I assumed the first sentence was not the conclusion, even though it did say something about rights etc. but of course, I don't remember how the first part went now!  ???
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: nixon plays checkers on June 13, 2006, 09:27:58 AM
I guess i am not too clear on that question...ill defer to those who remember the wording more accurately...for some reason i just cant get it out of my mind the phrase "if we do, we risk treating humans like mere objects..." and the assumption needed to confer upon objects the characteristic of "not having any rights" in order for the conclusion to work.

I defer to you because you actually read the entire stimulus.  I was completely rushed for time on this section
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 09:28:19 AM
What question # was the basic rights being inviable?  If it's in the early or mid teens then I'm willing to guarantee it needs to have the word OBJECT in the answer choice.  

I believe it was either 23 or 24.  It was at the very end of the test.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: rena123 on June 13, 2006, 09:28:59 AM
24.  last page.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:29:52 AM
Here's how I remember the argument.  The assumption was required that somehow made it seem like treating things like objects was bad (because they had no rights).  Something along those lines is waht I picked.  

Otherwise, who cares if we treat patients like mere objects? What if mere objects are treated with more dignity that anything else?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: angrykorean on June 13, 2006, 09:30:25 AM

2.  Pollen question
Answer: People and wind move pollen


Was that the same answer as pollen is common.  I see to remember thinking that was the answer because if the pollen was common in many parts of the world than you can not verify where it comes from.

That doesn't work with the prompt though. The fact that certain types of pollen are very common around the world doesn't change the fact that you could still use some of the more  uncommon ones to trace where things came from. The answer that fits the prompt would have to make the method unreliable across the board, hence the wind and humans spread pollen answer.

i think i put something like "can't determine where the ancient/old pollen originated" or something that had to do with inability to decide the region because of the lack of knowledge regarding past pollen/flower locations. i know that my wording is completely off (or am i just imagining things from some activities of last night). that pollen moving because of the wind def. was one of my choices, but the conlcusion said that, "given the pollen, you can track where in the ancient location it came from" and i found another answer that implied "something (insert correct wording here)" that made that tracking harder/impossible other than the wind blowing.

my conclusion? i think i blew it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 09:34:17 AM
Is the question about oil company regulations on the master list yet?  I believe that the consensus answer is: the reasoning flaw is that the speaker is assuming that in order to have risk-beneficial profits, the industry must have the highest profits of any industry.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 13, 2006, 09:34:39 AM
Wasn't there another question about politicians?

Politicians/campaigning, assumption

If elected politicians keep the promises that they made while campaigning

or was that experimental?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 09:35:08 AM
Here's how I remember the argument.  The assumption was required that somehow made it seem like treating things like objects was bad (because they had no rights).  Something along those lines is waht I picked.  

Otherwise, who cares if we treat patients like mere objects? What if mere objects are treated with more dignity that anything else?

Yes exactly!  Which is the point of the whole argument!  The whole argument lead up to the "like objects" statement... I was begining to think I was crazy and that I was the only person who saw this answer as correct.  Plus, if you open an LSAT study book  (Kaplan 'Orange', Pages 52-65)... 'Assuming something to properly draw a conclusion' as correct is the same thing as making an ASSUMPTION.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 13, 2006, 09:35:11 AM
Quote

my conclusion? i think i blew it.

    hopefully you made some logical leaps in coming up with that conclusion!

           you're doing a lovely job paigeroo. I'm afraid I can't remember anything else for LR!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: tmastro on June 13, 2006, 09:36:04 AM

2.  Pollen question
Answer: People and wind move pollen


Was that the same answer as pollen is common.  I see to remember thinking that was the answer because if the pollen was common in many parts of the world than you can not verify where it comes from.

That doesn't work with the prompt though. The fact that certain types of pollen are very common around the world doesn't change the fact that you could still use some of the more  uncommon ones to trace where things came from. The answer that fits the prompt would have to make the method unreliable across the board, hence the wind and humans spread pollen answer.

i think i put something like "can't determine where the ancient/old pollen originated" or something that had to do with inability to decide the region because of the lack of knowledge regarding past pollen/flower locations. i know that my wording is completely off (or am i just imagining things from some activities of last night). that pollen moving because of the wind def. was one of my choices, but the conlcusion said that, "given the pollen, you can track where in the ancient location it came from" and i found another answer that implied "something (insert correct wording here)" that made that tracking harder/impossible other than the wind blowing.

my conclusion? i think i blew it.

This was also the answer I put for that question. If scientists don't know where the plants grew, what good is the pollen? (Remember they are expecting the pollen to have moved with people and animals, that is the whole point of the research)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: jgd224 on June 13, 2006, 09:36:13 AM
6.  Computers/emotion/art
Answer: Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they can't produce great art.


Does everyone agree with this answer? I know I had it down to this choice and another one about computers are incapable of feeling pain and sorrow...i cant remember this at all, can someone refresh my memory?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 13, 2006, 09:37:15 AM
well I had an experiemental section LR section, so this doesn't verifty it as non-exp.

But I remember the oil company profits question too, I think it  was assumption

I had the same answer, except I think the wording was a hair different like in order to still make a profit (after the regulations have been passed) the company must have the highest profits
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 09:37:26 AM
Here's how I remember the argument.  The assumption was required that somehow made it seem like treating things like objects was bad (because they had no rights).  Something along those lines is waht I picked.  

Otherwise, who cares if we treat patients like mere objects? What if mere objects are treated with more dignity that anything else?

Yes exactly!  Which is the point of the whole argument!  The whole argument lead up to the "like objects" statement... I was begining to think I was crazy and that I was the only person who saw this answer as correct.  Plus, if you open an LSAT study book  (Kaplan 'Orange', Pages 52-65)... 'Assuming something to properly draw a conclusion' as correct is the same thing as making an ASSUMPTION.

I think that you are mistaking the conclusion.  The conclusion of the argument is that patients' right to more information trumps the duty of doctors to act in the patients' best interest.

The little add-on about objects is just supporting info.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zhyue on June 13, 2006, 09:37:37 AM
I remember a principle question about changing some policy would make environment better but hur key industry. I picked one that says policy should not be altered unless consequence of changing it is better than not to do it.

SOMEONE PLEASE TRY AND THINK OF NEW QUESTIONS TODAY.  I think the window of opportunity to remember is quickly closing. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: angrykorean on June 13, 2006, 09:37:40 AM
since my separate thread is being stashed away as we speak....

i didn't complete any of the 4 parallel reasoning questions in the test. i marked Ds for all of them.

do any of you LR gurus remember any of them being D? this would really help me in terms of deciding whether or not to cancel my score....
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:37:43 AM
6.  Computers/emotion/art
Answer: Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they can't produce great art.


Does everyone agree with this answer? I know I had it down to this choice and another one about computers are incapable of feeling pain and sorrow...i cant remember this at all, can someone refresh my memory?

I disagree with this one.  That's not what the answer choice said.  The answer choid simply said "understand emotions".  Because it didn't specify deeply held emotions, whereas the other one mentioned two that were in the stimulus, I chose the other one.

 Anyone else?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 09:38:05 AM
Is the question about oil company regulations on the master list yet?  I believe that the consensus answer is: the reasoning flaw is that the speaker is assuming that in order to have risk-beneficial profits, the industry must have the highest profits of any industry.

Yes... this is correct!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:39:28 AM
Is the one about the woman on the board and not having to disclose her financial investments on the list yet? I can't find it
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 13, 2006, 09:39:41 AM
Oil company question definitely not experimental, and I put down the same answer.

the only politician question I remember was the one to do with privacy, and the answer was that politicians personal flaws impinge on their ability in office. I think perhaps you are confusing the two, or the politicians campaigning was experimental.

(I only had two LRs)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: tmastro on June 13, 2006, 09:40:01 AM
Is the question about oil company regulations on the master list yet?  I believe that the consensus answer is: the reasoning flaw is that the speaker is assuming that in order to have risk-beneficial profits, the industry must have the highest profits of any industry.

Yes... this is correct!

Thats also what I got.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:41:12 AM
I don't remember that one..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zhyue on June 13, 2006, 09:41:16 AM
As I mentioned earlier, the correct answer says CAPABLE of experience emontion, while the other one says HAVE experiences emotion.

6.  Computers/emotion/art
Answer: Unless computers can be programmed to understand deeply held emotions, they can't produce great art.


Does everyone agree with this answer? I know I had it down to this choice and another one about computers are incapable of feeling pain and sorrow...i cant remember this at all, can someone refresh my memory?

I disagree with this one.  That's not what the answer choice said.  The answer choid simply said "understand emotions".  Because it didn't specify deeply held emotions, whereas the other one mentioned two that were in the stimulus, I chose the other one.

 Anyone else?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 09:41:40 AM
since my separate thread is being stashed away as we speak....

i didn't complete any of the 4 parallel reasoning questions in the test. i marked Ds for all of them.

do any of you LR gurus remember any of them being D? this would really help me in terms of deciding whether or not to cancel my score....


Mary/Molly and her classmates were A

Thesis / Medical Procedure was either B or C
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 09:41:45 AM
Is the one about the woman on the board and not having to disclose her financial investments on the list yet? I can't find it

Was this experimental?  I remember it as well.  I believe TCR is that it ignores the possibility that Laura does not have any other situations that would require that she disclose her private finances, aside from the conditions specifically outlined in the stimulus.  I believe it was answer (C) or (D).  This question was also one of the last questions in its respective section.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 13, 2006, 09:43:25 AM
I remember the Laura and investment and sitting on a board question. I also believe the correct answer was that she didn't have anything else that required her to disclose the information.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: rena123 on June 13, 2006, 09:44:25 AM
okay, i think you object guys are missing the point.  correct me if i'm wrong, but the answer choice you want is that "objects don't have rights where as humans do"? while it's true that the argument makes that assumption, the conclusion is that it is bad to violate people's rights.  that is the important part.  assuming that objects do have rights, you still can't explain why it's bad to deny rights to humans.  all the argument says is that we can't deny humans their rights "because then we would be treating them like objects." 
but WHY is it bad to treat them like objects?  your answer, "because objects don't have rights and humans do" doesn't really answer that key question, because the next question is, "so who cares about rights?"
that is why the thing about basic human rights being inviolable is correct. 

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 09:44:30 AM
I remember the Laura and investment and sitting on a board question. I also believe the correct answer was that she didn't have anything else that required her to disclose the information.

Did you have exp LR?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: jgd224 on June 13, 2006, 09:44:49 AM
Is the one about the woman on the board and not having to disclose her financial investments on the list yet? I can't find it

Was this experimental?  I remember it as well.  I believe TCR is that it ignores the possibility that Laura does not have any other situations that would require that she disclose her private finances, aside from the conditions specifically outlined in the stimulus.  I believe it was answer (C) or (D).  This question was also one of the last questions in its respective section.

yes i agree
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 09:45:58 AM
I remember a principle question about changing some policy would make environment better but hur key industry. I picked one that says policy should not be altered unless consequence of changing it is better than not to do it.

SOMEONE PLEASE TRY AND THINK OF NEW QUESTIONS TODAY.  I think the window of opportunity to remember is quickly closing. 

This is great stuff ZHYUE!  Someone verify and second.

I can verify this as well!  It was a gimmie question due to the 'monkey logic'...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: tmastro on June 13, 2006, 09:46:05 AM
I think it was established earlier that the question about Laura and the board is experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 13, 2006, 09:46:14 AM
I disagree about the large and small countries, justify question

The answer couldn't be small countries don't think of themselves as independent,  I'm pretty sure that the stimulus explicitly said that

The answer that I remember is countries that do not think of themselves as independent never regulate trade and something else about barriers
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:48:07 AM
since my separate thread is being stashed away as we speak....

i didn't complete any of the 4 parallel reasoning questions in the test. i marked Ds for all of them.

do any of you LR gurus remember any of them being D? this would really help me in terms of deciding whether or not to cancel my score....


Mary/Molly and her classmates were A

Thesis / Medical Procedure was either B or C

See my other thread, but I don't think the Mary/Molly and her classes was A.  A was supposed to throw people off, but it doesn't line up.  B lines up, even though it replaces at least one with "Many", which is logically equivalent.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: tmastro on June 13, 2006, 09:49:39 AM
I disagree about the large and small countries, justify question

The answer couldn't be small countries don't think of themselves as independent,  I'm pretty sure that the stimulus explicitly said that

The answer that I remember is countries that do not think of themselves as independent never regulate trade and something else about barriers

You are right. The answer was the assumption that not viewing one's self as indp prevented the tarrifs.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:50:11 AM
If Laura and the board is the one that dealt with investment disclosure then it's definetely not experimental, I had games for exp.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: WildCardz on June 13, 2006, 09:55:46 AM

38. Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.
Answer: What is the neceesary assumption: Intelligence does not imply conciosness

this one is 100% correct

I'm sorry to do this with my first post while I've come in from having a couple.  But...

You have to assume the conclusion of the argument to properly draw the conclusion?  That seems off to me.  The conclusion of the argument is that Intelligence does not imply consciousness.  It would see that the assumption must link the following.

Premise: Complex goals --> does not imply consciousness
Conclusion:  Intelligence --> does not imply consciousness

Assumption: Complex goals require intelligence.

I believe that was answer A?

But then again, I'm Japanese-American, and Japan lost today, America lost today, and some evil lady with a stopwatch made me write in cursive...which was easily the most difficult part of the test.  And to top it off...perhaps its more than "a couple" that I've had.  So what do I know?


Can someone please take a look at this?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 13, 2006, 09:57:26 AM
I only had two LR sections, and I remember the board and disclosure question.

I guess the rights vs. humans thing just depends on what the individual test taker took as the conclusion! I thought it was the last sentence. Can anyone remember the majority opinion of what the conclusion was here? The first or second sentence?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 09:58:25 AM
For the disclosure one, I put something about "The requirements are the only ones the board has" orsomething to that effect.  I honestly had no idea.  This needs to be added to the master list though. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 10:00:17 AM
I remember the Laura and investment and sitting on a board question. I also believe the correct answer was that she didn't have anything else that required her to disclose the information.

Yes, this is what a got as well.  The other answer choices were horrible as well.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 10:01:34 AM
For the disclosure one, I put something about "The requirements are the only ones the board has" orsomething to that effect.  I honestly had no idea.  This needs to be added to the master list though. 

You know, this is ringing a bell!  I think I might have changed it to that at the last minute from something about "she will never have to do [something] in the future."  BUt I ended up putting what you put, slorello, because if there were more requirements then the whole argument would go to nothing.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: koebe23 on June 13, 2006, 10:01:59 AM
The laura question was real, and it was a formal logic justify question, the stem was something like "which one of the following, if assumed, would allow the conclusion to be properly drawn" and I put that she can't have a conflict of interest because I somehow thought that would get the conclusion
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: rena123 on June 13, 2006, 10:03:46 AM
since my separate thread is being stashed away as we speak....

i didn't complete any of the 4 parallel reasoning questions in the test. i marked Ds for all of them.

do any of you LR gurus remember any of them being D? this would really help me in terms of deciding whether or not to cancel my score....


Mary/Molly and her classmates were A

Thesis / Medical Procedure was either B or C

See my other thread, but I don't think the Mary/Molly and her classes was A.  A was supposed to throw people off, but it doesn't line up.  B lines up, even though it replaces at least one with "Many", which is logically equivalent.

i'm pretty sure A lines up.  i wrote it out.  it's in the wrong order, but i'm pretty sure it's right.

the stimulus says.

most Es are Cs.  most Cs are $$$.  therefore, at least 1 (or was it some?) E is $$. 
 
E--m--> C    (m= most, s = some)
C--m-->$$$
therefore
E<--s-->$$$ 

choice a says: most Gs are P.  most MC are G.  therefore at least 1 MC is P. 

G-m->P 
MC-m->G 
therefore
MC<-s-> P   

if you switch around premise 1 and premise 2, you get the same exact pattern as in the stimulus:

MC--m->G 
G--m->P
therefore
MC<--s--> P


the end.  :)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 10:04:03 AM
The answer I put about the requirements being the only ones seemed just so.... obvious.. but it DOES coplete the justify formula from the bible

Premises + Answer Choices = Conclusion

Premises = These are some requirements, they don't apply to Laura.

Conclusion = Laura doesn't need to disclose investments.

the answer about those being the ONLY requirements hits that on the nail, but then again, the stimulus also said ONLY, which is what confused me..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: angrykorean on June 13, 2006, 10:04:40 AM
crap i don't remember that board question. do you remember if it was towards the end of either one of the two sections?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 10:06:18 AM
since my separate thread is being stashed away as we speak....

i didn't complete any of the 4 parallel reasoning questions in the test. i marked Ds for all of them.

do any of you LR gurus remember any of them being D? this would really help me in terms of deciding whether or not to cancel my score....


Mary/Molly and her classmates were A

Thesis / Medical Procedure was either B or C

See my other thread, but I don't think the Mary/Molly and her classes was A.  A was supposed to throw people off, but it doesn't line up.  B lines up, even though it replaces at least one with "Many", which is logically equivalent.

i'm pretty sure A lines up.  i wrote it out.  it's in the wrong order, but i'm pretty sure it's right.

the stimulus says.

most Es are Cs.  most Cs are $$$.  therefore, at least 1 (or was it some?) E is $$. 
 
E--m--> C    (m= most, s = some)
C--m-->$$$
therefore
E<--s-->$$$ 

choice a says: most Gs are P.  most MC are G.  therefore at least 1 MC is P. 

G-m->P 
MC-m->G 
therefore
MC<-s-> P   

if you switch around premise 1 and premise 2, you get the same exact pattern as in the stimulus:

MC--m->G 
G--m->P
therefore
MC<--s--> P


the end.  :)


Nice!  Very well put.  I chose (A) too.


I had a good two minutes to address this problem, and i diagrammed both A and B, and B matched up and I foundd something about A that didn't.  Anyone else NOT put A and put the one about MANY?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: littlesailor1088 on June 13, 2006, 10:10:50 AM
I disagree about the large and small countries, justify question

The answer couldn't be small countries don't think of themselves as independent,  I'm pretty sure that the stimulus explicitly said that

The answer that I remember is countries that do not think of themselves as independent never regulate trade and something else about barriers

Correction on this I accidently typed NOT where it should not be

I meant to say countries that think of themselves as independent never regulate trade, etc.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 10:13:20 AM
Paigeroo, can you add the Laura disclosure of investments to this list?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 10:13:50 AM
Did we come to a conclusion about Laura and the board?

Answer: There was no other requirements that would make her do such and such (obviously paraphrasing)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 10:16:19 AM
The answer I put about the requirements being the only ones seemed just so.... obvious.. but it DOES coplete the justify formula from the bible

Premises + Answer Choices = Conclusion

Premises = These are some requirements, they don't apply to Laura.

Conclusion = Laura doesn't need to disclose investments.

the answer about those being the ONLY requirements hits that on the nail, but then again, the stimulus also said ONLY, which is what confused me..


This question  can now be verified it seems- For my part I was very sure that the answer was that the board requirements were the only reason Laura would have to disclose her statements (I'm 99% sure it was E). It was phrased in a way that made you dismiss it, but it makes 100% perfect sense if you think about it. The long preamble basically states the conditions by which, as a board member, Laura would have to disclose her statements. Laura does not fit these categories. Then the argument leaps considerably to conclude that Laura DEFINITELY WILL NOT have to disclose her statements at this time. This makes a giant assumption: That her board role is the only reason she would have to disclose statements. The formal logic was all just window dressing.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Eli on June 13, 2006, 10:17:06 AM
I disagree about the large and small countries, justify question

The answer couldn't be small countries don't think of themselves as independent,  I'm pretty sure that the stimulus explicitly said that

The answer that I remember is countries that do not think of themselves as independent never regulate trade and something else about barriers

You are right. The answer was the assumption that not viewing one's self as indp prevented the tarrifs.

this was the one about countries being self-suffienct and ind dont regulate trade? I picked something about small countries not being self-suffienct siunce that would explain why tariffs were not imposed.    
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 10:18:03 AM
Ooooh, I remember one that I hated--hopefully this was experimental--what about the parallel reasoning question dealing with someone arguing that we must demolish an old building, because letting the preservation society keep it up will hurt the economy becuse it halts economic growth. One of the answer choices I know was about owing money and it gathering interest (I'm not sure if I eventually chose that though).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 10:18:57 AM
Ooooh, I remember one that I hated--hopefully this was experimental--what about the parallel reasoning question dealing with someone arguing that we must demolish an old building, because letting the preservation society keep it up will hurt the economy becuse it halts economic growth. One of the answer choices I know was about owing money and it gathering interest (I'm not sure if I eventually chose that though).

I don't remember that question.  It was probably experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: koebe23 on June 13, 2006, 10:20:21 AM
Yeah, so I think the laura answer is that she doesn't have any conflicts of interest. the premises stated that she has to withdraw information only if she is in an authorized position or if she sits on the board of a petrochemical company. Then the next premises said that she wasn't in an authorized position, so the conclusion said that she doesn't have to withdraw information

So for that conclusion to be properly drawn, she can't serve on the board of any petrochemical company, so i said that she can't have a conflict of interest.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 10:21:34 AM
I disagree about the large and small countries, justify question

The answer couldn't be small countries don't think of themselves as independent,  I'm pretty sure that the stimulus explicitly said that

The answer that I remember is countries that do not think of themselves as independent never regulate trade and something else about barriers


I believe the exact wording was "countries that don't VIEW themselfs as independent"....

This has to be correct.  Mark it in the books!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: WildCardz on June 13, 2006, 10:21:48 AM
Yeah, so I think the laura answer is that she doesn't have any conflicts of interest. the premises stated that she has to withdraw information only if she is in an authorized position or if she sits on the board of a petrochemical company. Then the next premises said that she wasn't in an authorized position, so the conclusion said that she doesn't have to withdraw information

So for that conclusion to be properly drawn, she can't serve on the board of any petrochemical company, so i said that she can't have a conflict of interest.

I agree with everyone else about the correct answer choice. Conflict of interest choice was out of scope, they put it as a trap for people who have outside knowledge of corporations etc.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Harper on June 13, 2006, 10:23:02 AM
Yeah, so I think the laura answer is that she doesn't have any conflicts of interest. the premises stated that she has to withdraw information only if she is in an authorized position or if she sits on the board of a petrochemical company. Then the next premises said that she wasn't in an authorized position, so the conclusion said that she doesn't have to withdraw information

So for that conclusion to be properly drawn, she can't serve on the board of any petrochemical company, so i said that she can't have a conflict of interest.

I think we can chalk Laura and the board up as a verified (though I have no recollection of what I put on that one).

So that leaves us with just FIVE to go!  They'd have to be five amazingly unremarkable questions, after almost 50 pages worth of speculation.  

Can anybody think of them??
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: rena123 on June 13, 2006, 10:24:50 AM



This question  can now be verified it seems- For my part I was very sure that the answer was that the board requirements were the only reason Laura would have to disclose her statements (I'm 99% sure it was E). It was phrased in a way that made you dismiss it, but it makes 100% perfect sense if you think about it. The long preamble basically states the conditions by which, as a board member, Laura would have to disclose her statements. Laura does not fit these categories. Then the argument leaps considerably to conclude that Laura DEFINITELY WILL NOT have to disclose her statements at this time. This makes a giant assumption: That her board role is the only reason she would have to disclose statements. The formal logic was all just window dressing.
[/quote]

yes, you are absolutely right.  i spent a lot of time on this question and when i realised the answer was E i had a eureka moment.  definitely right.
My only problem with the Laura board response was that it already said "Only requirements" in the stimulus.. still I put that answer anyway...

yeah but that was the only requirements of the board.  just because she was required by the board doesn't mean there wasn't any other reason for her to disclose.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 10:25:24 AM
My only problem with the Laura board response was that it already said "Only requirements" in the stimulus.. still I put that answer anyway...

I think the trick was that those two conditions were the only requirements from the board or whatever, but there may have been any kind of reason (required from another entity like the SEC or not required at all) for Laura to disclose something else.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zhyue on June 13, 2006, 10:26:51 AM
Now I recollect another parallel question. The stimulus was local governments ask for more money needed for local projects. The answer I picked was people pool money together to buy food. Anyone remembers this one?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: koebe23 on June 13, 2006, 10:27:17 AM
can anyone remember what answer choice they chose for the independent states question, i didn't have enough time to go through it, so i just kindof applied the mechanical approach to justify questions, and chose A, is that the right answer?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: rena123 on June 13, 2006, 10:28:41 AM
Now I recollect another parallel question. The stimulus was local governments ask for more money needed for local projects. The answer I picked was people pool money together to buy food. Anyone remembers this one?

not at all.

p.s. anyone else feel slightly guilty about violating the agreement not to discuss the lsat until the questions are released?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zhyue on June 13, 2006, 10:29:13 AM
42. Celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? Answer: The person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

Anyone has different thought on this one? I think I picked something along the line that someone's action does not meet his belief does not make that belief less worthy.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 10:30:51 AM
Now I recollect another parallel question. The stimulus was local governments ask for more money needed for local projects. The answer I picked was people pool money together to buy food. Anyone remembers this one?


This was experimental

.

42. Celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? Answer: The person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

Anyone has different thought on this one? I think I picked something along the line that someone's action does not meet his belief does not make that belief less worthy.

I found this question awkward and stumbled on it, but I can't remember what exactly I put.  I think I choose TCR, but I was also looking at an answer with "sincerity" in it- may be the one you're referring to.  I think my answer may have been choice (A).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: tmastro on June 13, 2006, 10:31:33 AM
can anyone remember what answer choice they chose for the independent states question, i didn't have enough time to go through it, so i just kindof applied the mechanical approach to justify questions, and chose A, is that the right answer?

I don't think the answer was A. I think it was D or E.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: WildCardz on June 13, 2006, 10:31:46 AM

38. Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.
Answer: What is the neceesary assumption: Intelligence does not imply conciosness

this one is 100% correct

I'm sorry to do this with my first post while I've come in from having a couple.  But...

You have to assume the conclusion of the argument to properly draw the conclusion?  That seems off to me.  The conclusion of the argument is that Intelligence does not imply consciousness.  It would see that the assumption must link the following.

Premise: Complex goals --> does not imply consciousness
Conclusion:  Intelligence --> does not imply consciousness

Assumption: Complex goals require intelligence.

I believe that was answer A?

But then again, I'm Japanese-American, and Japan lost today, America lost today, and some evil lady with a stopwatch made me write in cursive...which was easily the most difficult part of the test.  And to top it off...perhaps its more than "a couple" that I've had.  So what do I know?


Can someone please take a look at this?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zhyue on June 13, 2006, 10:32:14 AM
Right,  now I remember "sincerity". That's the one I picked.

Now I recollect another parallel question. The stimulus was local governments ask for more money needed for local projects. The answer I picked was people pool money together to buy food. Anyone remembers this one?


This was experimental

.

42. Celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? Answer: The person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

Anyone has different thought on this one? I think I picked something along the line that someone's action does not meet his belief does not make that belief less worthy.

I found this question awkward and stumbled on it, but I can't remember what exactly I put.  I think I choose TCR, but I was also looking at an answer with "sincerity" in it- may be the one you're referring to.  I think my answer may have been choice (A).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 10:32:49 AM
Now I recollect another parallel question. The stimulus was local governments ask for more money needed for local projects. The answer I picked was people pool money together to buy food. Anyone remembers this one?

This was experimental.

42. Celebrities criticizing middle-class people for using up world resources? Answer: The person was attacking the celebrities rather than their arguments.

Anyone has different thought on this one? I think I picked something along the line that someone's action does not meet his belief does not make that belief less worthy.

I found this question awkward and stumbled on it, but I can't remember what exactly I put.  I think I choose TCR, but I was also looking at an answer with "sincerity" in it- may be the one you're referring to.  I think my answer may have been choice (A).

If I remember correctly, the answer was a combination of "the arguer is attacking person instead of argument" and "just because someone is hypocritical doesn't mean they're wrong". I'm pretty sure we're both right.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: koebe23 on June 13, 2006, 10:34:01 AM
about the one about celebrities, i think he dismisses their argument based on their lifestyles, and i was torn between a or b, but i know that i picked the one about lifestyles, which may or may not be the answer this board has...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: Harper on June 13, 2006, 10:34:12 AM

38. Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.
Answer: What is the neceesary assumption: Intelligence does not imply conciosness

this one is 100% correct

I'm sorry to do this with my first post while I've come in from having a couple.  But...

You have to assume the conclusion of the argument to properly draw the conclusion?  That seems off to me.  The conclusion of the argument is that Intelligence does not imply consciousness.  It would see that the assumption must link the following.

Premise: Complex goals --> does not imply consciousness
Conclusion:  Intelligence --> does not imply consciousness

Assumption: Complex goals require intelligence.

I believe that was answer A?

But then again, I'm Japanese-American, and Japan lost today, America lost today, and some evil lady with a stopwatch made me write in cursive...which was easily the most difficult part of the test.  And to top it off...perhaps its more than "a couple" that I've had.  So what do I know?


Can someone please take a look at this?

It's true - both Japan and the U.S. lost in the World Cup yesterday.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 7 TO GO! LETS DO THIS!
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 10:34:28 AM

38. Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.
Answer: What is the neceesary assumption: Intelligence does not imply conciosness

this one is 100% correct

I'm sorry to do this with my first post while I've come in from having a couple.  But...

You have to assume the conclusion of the argument to properly draw the conclusion?  That seems off to me.  The conclusion of the argument is that Intelligence does not imply consciousness.  It would see that the assumption must link the following.

Premise: Complex goals --> does not imply consciousness
Conclusion:  Intelligence --> does not imply consciousness

Assumption: Complex goals require intelligence.

I believe that was answer A?

But then again, I'm Japanese-American, and Japan lost today, America lost today, and some evil lady with a stopwatch made me write in cursive...which was easily the most difficult part of the test.  And to top it off...perhaps its more than "a couple" that I've had.  So what do I know?


Can someone please take a look at this?

There's been a ton of debate on this in previous pages. I for one am with the answer that complex goals require intellegence, as are a number of other people. There are also a ton of people who still choose the other answer, something about consciousness implying intellegence.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: kbb on June 13, 2006, 10:37:11 AM
some quick observations:


5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property
Minority opinion: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure

- the tcr was C or D, right?


9. Professor talking smack about another professor
Answer: attacking the character rather than the arg

- still have no recollection about this one at all... can anyone give more details?

10. Humans walking upright and the tools used
Answer: Sophisticated tools were used by non-upright humans
Minority opinion: No difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates

- i know this has been discussed to death but i'm pretty sure the answer (B) said sophisticated weapons instead of tools... doesn't make much of a difference either way, i picked it because weapon is simply a subclass of tool.

32. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also. What needs to be assumed?
Answer: That computers checking the parts of a theorem is not sufficent to prove it, e.g. need humans to verify it

- do people remember this answer to be D or E?

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 10:37:52 AM
I have counted (-7) so far out of our 45... But I still think maybe 2 or 3 are still correct.  (Dexterity of the Hands, Humans vs Objects Assumption, and New Medical Procedure Parallel Reasoning)

Thank Goodness the LG and RC was easy or else I would be S.O.L. (minus the Corn/C4 passage)

Lets try to figure these last 5 or 6 out so I can know whether or not to cancel.

p.s. Does the picture to the left of this message make anybody else uncomfortable?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 10:41:06 AM
I have counted (-7) so far out of our 45... But I still think maybe 2 or 3 are still correct.  (Dexterity of the Hands, Humans vs Objects Assumption, and New Medical Procedure Parallel Reasoning)

Thank Goodness the LG and RC was easy or else I would be S.O.L. (minus the Corn/C4 passage)

Lets try to figure these last 5 or 6 out so I can know whether or not to cancel.

p.s. Does the picture to the left of this message make anybody else uncomfortable?

Hehe...as a tone deaf Asian nerd, I find it uncomfortable. =)  Why do you have it as your avatar?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 10:42:10 AM
some quick observations:


5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property
Minority opinion: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure

- the tcr was C or D, right?


9. Professor talking smack about another professor
Answer: attacking the character rather than the arg

- still have no recollection about this one at all... can anyone give more details?

10. Humans walking upright and the tools used
Answer: Sophisticated tools were used by non-upright humans
Minority opinion: No difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates

- i know this has been discussed to death but i'm pretty sure the answer (B) said sophisticated weapons instead of tools... doesn't make much of a difference either way, i picked it because weapon is simply a subclass of tool.

32. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also. What needs to be assumed?
Answer: That computers checking the parts of a theorem is not sufficent to prove it, e.g. need humans to verify it

- do people remember this answer to be D or E?



for computer thing, I think it was E; new age philosopher I think was C or D; don't remember the professor AT ALL; and for the f&^*ing tools question people are mixing up two seperate choices--there was one which referenced weapons found at an ancient site and a different one which was "early sophisticated tools were used by non-uprights". Sigh. I picked the latter, I think it's right, but I think that question SUCKED. No wonder everyone's mixed up--we're used to having one second-best answer instead of two.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 10:43:18 AM
I have counted (-7) so far out of our 45... But I still think maybe 2 or 3 are still correct.  (Dexterity of the Hands, Humans vs Objects Assumption, and New Medical Procedure Parallel Reasoning)

Thank Goodness the LG and RC was easy or else I would be S.O.L. (minus the Corn/C4 passage)

Lets try to figure these last 5 or 6 out so I can know whether or not to cancel.

p.s. Does the picture to the left of this message make anybody else uncomfortable?

HAHA, every time you post I feel awkward reading what you wrote and wonder why, and then realize it is that creepy picture.
Title: New question
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 10:43:39 AM
This question isn't represented on the master list yet. Basically:

A new piece of legislation requires all automobile factors to register as class B (?) factories. Class B factories must all have punctual inspections. So no automobile factory can postpone its inspections.
Q): How does this argument proceed?
A): Showing that two provisions of the new factory legislation jointly lead to the unacceptability of a state of affairs.

The correct answer seemed odd initially, because it appeared to imply that some current or actual state of affairs is unacceptable according to the legislation. Actually, it merely stated that the law's provisions jointly entail that a certain state of affairs (i.e. an automobile factory postponing its inspections) would be unacceptable. I believe this was answer choice A.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 10:44:02 AM
some quick observations:


5.  New age philosopher and nonlinear methods flaw question
Answer: Assumes without justification that just because the thing has a property, the REASONING must also have the property
Minority opinion: Can't analyze abstractly if it has structure

- the tcr was C or D, right?


9. Professor talking smack about another professor
Answer: attacking the character rather than the arg

- still have no recollection about this one at all... can anyone give more details?

10. Humans walking upright and the tools used
Answer: Sophisticated tools were used by non-upright humans
Minority opinion: No difference in dexterity of pre and post upright primates

- i know this has been discussed to death but i'm pretty sure the answer (B) said sophisticated weapons instead of tools... doesn't make much of a difference either way, i picked it because weapon is simply a subclass of tool.

32. Question about how to proove a theorem, all the proofs leading up to the theorem must be proved also. What needs to be assumed?
Answer: That computers checking the parts of a theorem is not sufficent to prove it, e.g. need humans to verify it

- do people remember this answer to be D or E?



I think the assumption one (32) was E.  I don't remember TCR response letter for the new age philosopher, but I think it may also have been E.

The prof question is experimental I believe.  Can anyone else confirm?  If so it should be taken off.
Title: Re: New question
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 10:44:31 AM
This question isn't represented on the master list yet. Basically:

A new piece of legislation requires all automobile factors to register as class B (?) factories. Class B factories must all have punctual inspections. So no automobile factory can postpone its inspections.
Q): How does this argument proceed?
A): Showing that two provisions of the new factory legislation jointly lead to the unacceptability of a state of affairs.

The correct answer seemed odd initially, because it appeared to imply that some current or actual state of affairs is unacceptable according to the legislation. Actually, it merely stated that the law's provisions jointly entail that a certain state of affairs (i.e. an automobile factory postponing its inspections) would be unacceptable. I believe this was answer choice A.

I second this (I think we've discussed this but it hasn't found its way to the list yet).
Title: Re: New question
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 10:46:06 AM
This question isn't represented on the master list yet. Basically:

A new piece of legislation requires all automobile factors to register as class B (?) factories. Class B factories must all have punctual inspections. So no automobile factory can postpone its inspections.
Q): How does this argument proceed?
A): Showing that two provisions of the new factory legislation jointly lead to the unacceptability of a state of affairs.

The correct answer seemed odd initially, because it appeared to imply that some current or actual state of affairs is unacceptable according to the legislation. Actually, it merely stated that the law's provisions jointly entail that a certain state of affairs (i.e. an automobile factory postponing its inspections) would be unacceptable. I believe this was answer choice A.

I second this (I think we've discussed this but it hasn't found its way to the list yet).

Thirded! And A was the letter.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Harper on June 13, 2006, 10:46:18 AM
I have counted (-7) so far out of our 45... But I still think maybe 2 or 3 are still correct.  (Dexterity of the Hands, Humans vs Objects Assumption, and New Medical Procedure Parallel Reasoning)

Thank Goodness the LG and RC was easy or else I would be S.O.L. (minus the Corn/C4 passage)

Lets try to figure these last 5 or 6 out so I can know whether or not to cancel.

p.s. Does the picture to the left of this message make anybody else uncomfortable?

So Grey, did you give up on the fight for "fruits and vegetables" as the answer to the music/math parallel reasoning question?  The consensus answer of hearing problems doesn't seem right enough to me.  Oh well.

And yes, the computer proofs question was for real.  And I'm surprised the Class B factories question slipped through!  We definitely discussed it. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: LSACcansuckmy(L)eftSAC on June 13, 2006, 10:48:27 AM
#6 on the master list: computers/emotion/art: can anyone briefly refresh my memory on the stimulus and stem by providing more info about the question? i vaguely remember seeing computer/emotion/art as part of one question, but beyond that's a blur.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 10:50:14 AM
#6 on the master list: computers/emotion/art: can anyone briefly refresh my memory on the stimulus and stem by providing more info about the question? i vaguely remember seeing computer/emotion/art as part of one question, but beyond that's a blur.

The stimulus said something like: Great art must express deeply-held emotions.  However, one can only express emotions in art if one has at some point experienced these emotions.  The stem asked what could be properly inferred from those statements.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 10:51:10 AM
Another we seemed to confirm this morning that's not on the list is the question that discussed how more people use cleaning agents and lawn chemicals than use prescription drugs, therefore more effort should be made to test the safety of those chemicals the medications. Asked for a principle, answer was something like: The degree to which something should be tested/studied is in proportion to the amount of people who may be affected by it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 10:54:04 AM
I have counted (-7) so far out of our 45... But I still think maybe 2 or 3 are still correct.  (Dexterity of the Hands, Humans vs Objects Assumption, and New Medical Procedure Parallel Reasoning)

Thank Goodness the LG and RC was easy or else I would be S.O.L. (minus the Corn/C4 passage)

Lets try to figure these last 5 or 6 out so I can know whether or not to cancel.

p.s. Does the picture to the left of this message make anybody else uncomfortable?

So Grey, did you give up on the fight for "fruits and vegetables" as the answer to the music/math parallel reasoning question?  The consensus answer of hearing problems doesn't seem right enough to me.  Oh well.

And yes, the computer proofs question was for real.  And I'm surprised the Class B factories question slipped through!  We definitely discussed it. 

NO SIR!  I am sticking with that answer as well.  There are 5 that I think MAY be correct, I hope to get 2 or 3 out of the five and hopefully limit my LR to a (-5)... I would put money on that fact that I missed zero on LG... And maybe (5-7) on RC... depending on how well I guessed on the C4 passage.  (I was not aware that I needed my Biology pre-rec's for the LSAT... unlike the MCAT)  

So to answer your question, I am still fighting the good fight.  Heres to 88 correct being a  170!  Cheers!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 10:56:46 AM
Another we seemed to confirm this morning that's not on the list is the question that discussed how more people use cleaning agents and lawn chemicals than use prescription drugs, therefore more effort should be made to test the safety of those chemicals the medications. Asked for a principle, answer was something like: The degree to which something should be tested/studied is in proportion to the amount of people who may be affected by it.

Good! Yeah, that one should be added. I believe that I put that answer as well, but there were several that looked tempting. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: rena123 on June 13, 2006, 10:57:32 AM
i agree!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 11:02:14 AM
Another we seemed to confirm this morning that's not on the list is the question that discussed how more people use cleaning agents and lawn chemicals than use prescription drugs, therefore more effort should be made to test the safety of those chemicals the medications. Asked for a principle, answer was something like: The degree to which something should be tested/studied is in proportion to the amount of people who may be affected by it.


Yes I agree with that answer... "The degree to which something should be tested/studied is in proportion to the amount of people who may be affected by it."
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 11:03:48 AM
Another we seemed to confirm this morning that's not on the list is the question that discussed how more people use cleaning agents and lawn chemicals than use prescription drugs, therefore more effort should be made to test the safety of those chemicals the medications. Asked for a principle, answer was something like: The degree to which something should be tested/studied is in proportion to the amount of people who may be affected by it.


Yes I agree with that answer... "The degree to which something should be tested/studied is in proportion to the amount of people who may be affected by it."




I also agree.  The key word in the stimulus was MORE or something to that effect, meaning that chemicals and drugs should be tested, but chemicals should be given extra attention because they affect more people.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 11:08:10 AM
I would love to add Laura and her investments someone please just verify that this is the consensus answer:
board requirements were the only reason laura would have to disclose her statements

Book it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Harper on June 13, 2006, 11:08:27 AM
Yes!  I had totally forgotten the cleaning agents and prescriptions drugs one.  I agree with the stated answer.

So we have three more to add to the Master List, when paige gets back.  (I'm assuming she's passed out somewhere from exhaustion, after busting her ass on this for so long):

1)  Laura and the board/ disclosure of finances

2)
 The law with the Class B factories and regular inspections

3)
 Cleaning agents and prescription drugs.

That means only three more to go!  So close...  

I propose that people move any further discussion of questions already on the list to a separate post, so we can focus on finishing off this master list.  It can always be revised later, as necessary.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 11:08:35 AM
I would love to add Laura and her investments someone please just verify that this is the consensus answer:
board requirements were the only reason laura would have to disclose her statements

I confirm it too.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 11:08:40 AM
I would love to add Laura and her investments someone please just verify that this is the consensus answer:
board requirements were the only reason laura would have to disclose her statements

Go for it paigeroo, and thanks for your hard work.  Also, 9 (the one about the professors) was experimental (somebody can confirm this, a couple have) and should be taken off.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zhyue on June 13, 2006, 11:09:49 AM
second
I would love to add Laura and her investments someone please just verify that this is the consensus answer:
board requirements were the only reason laura would have to disclose her statements
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Corgi on June 13, 2006, 11:10:23 AM
I would love to add Laura and her investments someone please just verify that this is the consensus answer:
board requirements were the only reason laura would have to disclose her statements

Book it.

I don't really remember the consensus answer choice... I only remember something like the small timber factory she was on the board for was not owned by a petreloum company.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 11:12:06 AM
Question #9 on our master list about professors talking smack.  I don't remember that.  ARe we sure that isn't exp?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 11:12:31 AM
I would love to add Laura and her investments someone please just verify that this is the consensus answer:
board requirements were the only reason laura would have to disclose her statements

Book it.

I don't really remember the consensus answer choice... I only remember something like the small timber factory she was on the board for was not owned by a petreloum company.

We discussed that answer choice and I think the consensus was that it was wrong.  Just because her company is owned by a petrol company does not mean that she's on the board for the petrol company.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: rena123 on June 13, 2006, 11:13:45 AM
i think it is.  so far maybe 3 or more people have said they don't remember it.  me included.
Question #9 on our master list about professors talking smack.  I don't remember that.  ARe we sure that isn't exp?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 11:14:08 AM
Question #9 on our master list about professors talking smack.  I don't remember that.  ARe we sure that isn't exp?

OK, I think it's pretty safe to say that we need to nix #9.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: jgd224 on June 13, 2006, 11:16:50 AM


for computer thing, I think it was E; new age philosopher I think was C or D; don't remember the professor AT ALL; and for the f&^*ing tools question people are mixing up two seperate choices--there was one which referenced weapons found at an ancient site and a different one which was "early sophisticated tools were used by non-uprights". Sigh. I picked the latter, I think it's right, but I think that question SUCKED. No wonder everyone's mixed up--we're used to having one second-best answer instead of two.
[/quote]

the choice people are referring to in that question is 'Advanced weapons were found at a site of prehistoric (fill in the blank)' one just had to decide whether advanced weapons could be interpreted as sophisticated tools....if they could be interpreted so, then that is the correct answer....i dont think the majority opinion choice about one does not need to be upright to use sophisticated tools etc is correct...the issue is whether such tools needed to be CONSTRUCTED standing upright or not...for this reasin advanced weapons could make sense bc it indicates that these advanced weapons were made by people not standing upright since it was found at their site...does this make sense?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: doibhilin on June 13, 2006, 11:21:07 AM
Quote
37. Large country being split into smaller countries
Answer: Smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent

38. Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.
Answer: What is the neceesary assumption: Intelligence does not imply conciosness

Pretty sure these two are wrong, don't know if there are other posts about them.

#37, as I remember it, said something like this:  Economists say that a large amount of smaller countries is bad for free trade because of trade barriers.  Country A is splitting into several smaller countries.  But these smaller countries do not consider themselves self-sufficient.  Thus, they will not harm free trade.

The answer that you have was stated in the passage.  It wasn't an assumption, it was a claim.  And it doesn't matter whether other small countries consider themselves self-sufficient, we're looking at the one country in the example.  The assumption that had to be made connected self-sufficency with trade barriers.  Something like "only countries that consider themselves self-sufficent create trade barriers" or "countries that do not consider themselves self-sufficient don't create trade barriers."

For #38, again, the assumption that you answered is actually a claim; it's part of the argument.  His conclusion is that intelligence doesn't prove consciousness.  He's saying "Look, these things mean intelligence, and you can have them and not be conscious.  Thus, intelligence and consciousness are not the same."  For his argument to be true, you have to assume that the things he's saying are evidence of intelligence ("acts of complex goals") actually are signs of intelligence.  That was the right answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 11:21:12 AM
I'm 99% percent sure that the answer choice did NOT say "early sophisticated tools were used by non uprights"

It said "early BASIC tools"...

I went with adv. weapons.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Rockie on June 13, 2006, 11:21:54 AM
Quote
37. Large country being split into smaller countries
Answer: Smaller countries don't think of themselves as independent

I remember the answer to this one being that ONLY something was something. I cant remember the details but I know that was the format. Anyone else?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 11:22:31 AM
I'm 99% percent sure that the answer choice did NOT say "early sophisticated tools were used by non uprights"

It said "early BASIC tools"...

I went with adv. weapons.

99.9%  it said BASIC, because I almost picked that until I saw it.   Truthfully, I didn't ever consider the dexterity one.  But that doesn't mean anything.;)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: LawJedi on June 13, 2006, 11:24:22 AM
I'm 99% percent sure that the answer choice did NOT say "early sophisticated tools were used by non uprights"

It said "early BASIC tools"...

I went with adv. weapons.

99.9%  it said BASIC, because I almost picked that until I saw it.   Truthfully, I didn't ever consider the dexterity one.  But that doesn't mean anything.;)

I went with advanced weapons. How could the weapons be advanced if the author's conclusion was true?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: doibhilin on June 13, 2006, 11:29:30 AM
Quote
I remember the answer to this one being that ONLY something was something. I cant remember the details but I know that was the format. Anyone else?

Yeah, it was that "Only self-sufficent countries create trade barriers" or something to that effect.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Rockie on June 13, 2006, 11:30:15 AM
Quote
I remember the answer to this one being that ONLY something was something. I cant remember the details but I know that was the format. Anyone else?

Yeah, it was that "Only self-sufficent countries create trade barriers" or something to that effect.

Exactly, that's what I went with.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: IamtheLSAT on June 13, 2006, 11:31:09 AM
I would love to add Laura and her investments someone please just verify that this is the consensus answer:
board requirements were the only reason laura would have to disclose her statements

can anyone give a little more detail about this question... i remember it, but barely... what was the question asking for... what were the possible other answer choices? i'm trying to figure out if i got it right or not... thanks!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: Rockie on June 13, 2006, 11:32:10 AM
I would love to add Laura and her investments someone please just verify that this is the consensus answer:
board requirements were the only reason laura would have to disclose her statements

can anyone give a little more detail about this question... i remember it, but barely... what was the question asking for... what were the possible other answer choices? i'm trying to figure out if i got it right or not... thanks!

I'm bad with details, but it was if A she would have to disclose and if B she would have to disclose. Not A and not B. She will not have to disclose. What's the flaw?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: LilaBlue on June 13, 2006, 11:34:09 AM
Hi guys.  I'm not sure if this is the one about the professors talking smack.  But I'm positive that the very first question in the 26er was a discussion between two people - one named Ilana and the other maybe Garvey?  I'm not sure if it was a Method of Arg question or a Main Point question but I thought that it might job someone else's memory to hear that other stuff.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - If you remember anything new help complete the list.
Post by: doibhilin on June 13, 2006, 11:41:35 AM
Quote
But I'm positive that the very first question in the 26er was a discussion between two people - one named Ilana and the other maybe Garvey?  I'm not sure if it was a Method of Arg question or a Main Point question but I thought that it might job someone else's memory to hear that other stuff.

Yeah, it was the one about the somber writer.  They disagreed over whether he could be a good writer because he was so somber.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: strivergirl on June 13, 2006, 11:47:58 AM
so to go way back, i'm not sure about the fruit question.  did the stimulus go like this:
p1:all inspected fruit is not infected.
p2:all infected fruit is rotten.
c:all inspected fruit is safe to eat.
???????
i think the answer i got was something along the lines of all fruitthat is not rotten is safe to eat.  but i might have the setup wrong, which in turn would change what i think my answer is.  any help?  anybody?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST- 13 TO GO! CAN U BELIEVE IT!? LURKERS CONTRIBUTE!!
Post by: rarara on June 13, 2006, 11:48:26 AM
there was one in the first LR, #17    something like 

Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.

What is the neceesary assumption:

B.  Intelligence does not imply conciosness

If you negate that you get: intelleigence implayd conciousness, which tears apart the argument.

My pick as well.

I chose whatever answer tied intelligence to the qualities the humans were demonstrating non-consciously, because then you could equalize unconcious yet intellegent humans with unconscious yet intelligent animals.

I pick the answer thats says goal-oriented do not imply intelligence as well.
First I was convinced that I was wrong, but now I am giving it a second thought, because I think that "intelligence implies consciousness" is too broad and an assumption should be what exactly the argument needs. The goal-oriented answer, however, serves as a link between the premise and the conclusion, therefore should be the TCR. Anyone?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: strivergirl on June 13, 2006, 11:50:38 AM
i agree, though all the doubters make me nervous.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: jgd224 on June 13, 2006, 11:54:33 AM
I thought the one with the prescriptions question had the correct choice "the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 11:56:51 AM
I thought the one with the prescriptions question had the correct choice "the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied"

Could this be the same thing?

39. Mind/body connection (can we know everything about a person's motivation if we know everything biologically about his actions?)
Answer: Assumes its conclusion

Does anybody remember the letter for this one? Could it have been B?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 11:59:39 AM
Can someone explain the new age philosopher question in a little more detail? I don't remember it..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: strivergirl on June 13, 2006, 12:00:51 PM
where (approx.) is the fruit discussion?  i'll look for it again and no one has to answer my question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: IamtheLSAT on June 13, 2006, 12:03:18 PM
I thought the one with the prescriptions question had the correct choice "the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied"

is this the same answer choice as the one that everyone is saying is TCR? or were there two very similar ones... i think i chose this one
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 12:04:39 PM
I thought the one with the prescriptions question had the correct choice "the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied"

is this the same answer choice as the one that everyone is saying is TCR? or were there two very similar ones... i think i chose this one

There was one answer choice that said non-medical products should not be examined more closely than medical products except in the case where the non-medical product is ____.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: LilaBlue on June 13, 2006, 12:05:12 PM
Trying to remember questions not on the list yet...there was definitely one about a fluoridated water supply.  Anyone know if it was experimental?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: IamtheLSAT on June 13, 2006, 12:06:42 PM
I thought the one with the prescriptions question had the correct choice "the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied"

is this the same answer choice as the one that everyone is saying is TCR? or were there two very similar ones... i think i chose this one

There was one answer choice that said non-medical products should not be examined more closely than medical products except in the case where the non-medical product is ____.

so what is the right answer? is it "the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied" ??
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 12:07:14 PM
I thought the one with the prescriptions question had the correct choice "the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied"

is this the same answer choice as the one that everyone is saying is TCR? or were there two very similar ones... i think i chose this one

There was one answer choice that said non-medical products should not be examined more closely than medical products except in the case where the non-medical product is ____.

I was debating that one, but I chose TCR.  I don't know why the former is wrong, though.  Any insight?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 12:07:53 PM
Can someone explain the new age philosopher question in a little more detail? I don't remember it..

Pretty please?  :) :)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: IamtheLSAT on June 13, 2006, 12:08:32 PM
also, as for the wealth/ prestige debate... can someone elaborate on the answer choice "the debate is over whether or not prestige is why people want wealth"... im pretty sure the correct answer was worded slightly different than that, but was getting at the same thing... does anyone else remember this?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: strivergirl on June 13, 2006, 12:08:42 PM
oh, yeah, where one town got it flouridated (sp?) and another didn't or something...pipes/tubes/tanks were involved...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: doibhilin on June 13, 2006, 12:08:54 PM
Quote
there was one in the first LR, #17    something like  

Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.

What is the neceesary assumption:

B.  Intelligence does not imply conciosness

If you negate that you get: intelleigence implayd conciousness, which tears apart the argument.


My pick as well.


I chose whatever answer tied intelligence to the qualities the humans were demonstrating non-consciously, because then you could equalize unconcious yet intellegent humans with unconscious yet intelligent animals.


Right, if you negate that, you tear apart the argument -- because it is the actual argument.  It's not an assumption, it's his conclusion.  

He says "Animals show A without consciousness.  Thus, intelligence need not imply consciousness."  Obviously if you negate his conclusion, then his conclusion will be false; that's true of any argument.  But the argument depends on the assumption that A demonstrates intelligence.  If complex goals are not a sign of intelligence, then he has no evidence for his conclusion.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 12:10:08 PM
also, as for the wealth/ prestige debate... can someone elaborate on the answer choice "the debate is over whether or not prestige is why people want wealth"... im pretty sure the correct answer was worded slightly different than that, but was getting at the same thing... does anyone else remember this?

Yeah, I remember something different too.  It wasn't that obvious, I don't think.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 12:11:27 PM
Can someone explain the new age philosopher question in a little more detail? I don't remember it..

Pretty please?  :) :)

It went something like this:

New age philosopher: X theory takes a holistic approach and cannot be separated into individual constituent parts, since it derives meaning from its whole.  Therefore, we cannot use science to understand the theory, since science only works by analyzing individual parts of a whole to understand the whole.

I believe this was a reasoning flaw question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: IamtheLSAT on June 13, 2006, 12:11:57 PM
I thought the one with the prescriptions question had the correct choice "the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied"

is this the same answer choice as the one that everyone is saying is TCR? or were there two very similar ones... i think i chose this one

There was one answer choice that said non-medical products should not be examined more closely than medical products except in the case where the non-medical product is ____.

I was debating that one, but I chose TCR.  I don't know why the former is wrong, though.  Any insight?


i'm sorry, i must be misunderstanding what youre getting at... which one is the correct answer?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 12:12:03 PM
I thought the one with the prescriptions question had the correct choice "the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied"

is this the same answer choice as the one that everyone is saying is TCR? or were there two very similar ones... i think i chose this one

There was one answer choice that said non-medical products should not be examined more closely than medical products except in the case where the non-medical product is ____.

I was debating that one, but I chose TCR.  I don't know why the former is wrong, though.  Any insight?

I think the "TCR" (the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied) is wrong (although I'm probably wrong).  I don't think the "TCR" provides guidance for comparing across products (like which of these two products should be studied more closely).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Qingu on June 13, 2006, 12:13:10 PM
On the master list:

I'm pretty sure the CR for #37 was not actually an answer choice.

I distinctly remember looking for "intelligence does not imply consciousness," but instead finding "consciousness does not imply intelligence," which is not a necessary assumption for the argument.

I forgot what the right answer was, though. Something to do with the definition of intelligence ... like the guy assumed that intelligence = ability to learn adaptive behavior.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 12:14:29 PM
oh, yeah, where one town got it flouridated (sp?) and another didn't or something...pipes/tubes/tanks were involved...

Yes, I remember the water purification question too! My experimental section was games, so it definitely was on the real LR. I believe the question was about chlorine. Trying to remember...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 12:18:20 PM
i don't remember.. hmm.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: thefatpossum on June 13, 2006, 12:29:17 PM
Quote
there was one in the first LR, #17    something like 

Acts of complex goals/ oriented by humans are not necessarily because they are concious,  Thus, finding that animals are intelligent doesnt necessarily prove they are capable of conciousness.

What is the neceesary assumption:

B.  Intelligence does not imply conciosness

If you negate that you get: intelleigence implayd conciousness, which tears apart the argument.


My pick as well.


I chose whatever answer tied intelligence to the qualities the humans were demonstrating non-consciously, because then you could equalize unconcious yet intellegent humans with unconscious yet intelligent animals.


Right, if you negate that, you tear apart the argument -- because it is the actual argument.  It's not an assumption, it's his conclusion. 

He says "Animals show A without consciousness.  Thus, intelligence need not imply consciousness."  Obviously if you negate his conclusion, then his conclusion will be false; that's true of any argument.  But the argument depends on the assumption that A demonstrates intelligence.  If complex goals are not a sign of intelligence, then he has no evidence for his conclusion. 

Totally agree with doibhilin on this one - it's been bothering me all day...I selected the response that makes the connection between complex goals and evidence.

Also, thanks to everyone for pitching in on this - very nice thing to wake up during my post-LSAT hangover...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: LSACcansuckmy(L)eftSAC on June 13, 2006, 12:32:03 PM
also, as for the wealth/ prestige debate... can someone elaborate on the answer choice "the debate is over whether or not prestige is why people want wealth"... im pretty sure the correct answer was worded slightly different than that, but was getting at the same thing... does anyone else remember this?

Yeah, I remember something different too.  It wasn't that obvious, I don't think.

From what I can recollect, I think the first guy said that people only desire more than what they currently have for social prestige/standing.

Guy 2 said, no, money is a universal medium of exchange or something...some people want to be able to buy things that they like, irregardless of what other people think of them.

The answer (the one i believe i picked, anyway) sounded similar to what was described above; it was whichever answer noted that the point at issue was the reason people desire wealth.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: LilaBlue on June 13, 2006, 12:33:34 PM
also, as for the wealth/ prestige debate... can someone elaborate on the answer choice "the debate is over whether or not prestige is why people want wealth"... im pretty sure the correct answer was worded slightly different than that, but was getting at the same thing... does anyone else remember this?

Yeah, I remember something different too.  It wasn't that obvious, I don't think.

From what I can recollect, I think the first guy said that people only desire more than what they currently have for social prestige/standing.

Guy 2 said, no, money is a universal medium of exchange or something...some people want to be able to buy things that they like, irregardless of what other people think of them.

The answer (the one i believe i picked, anyway) sounded similar to what was described above; it was whichever answer noted that the point at issue was the reason people desire wealth.

I definitely agree.  I think that the answer had to do with them disagreeing over the motives that people have for obtaining wealth.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Jmart603 on June 13, 2006, 12:34:20 PM
also, as for the wealth/ prestige debate... can someone elaborate on the answer choice "the debate is over whether or not prestige is why people want wealth"... im pretty sure the correct answer was worded slightly different than that, but was getting at the same thing... does anyone else remember this?

Yeah, I remember something different too.  It wasn't that obvious, I don't think.

From what I can recollect, I think the first guy said that people only desire more than what they currently have for social prestige/standing.

Guy 2 said, no, money is a universal medium of exchange or something...some people want to be able to buy things that they like, irregardless of what other people think of them.

The answer (the one i believe i picked, anyway) sounded similar to what was described above; it was whichever answer noted that the point at issue was the reason people desire wealth.

I definitely agree.  I think that the answer had to do with them disagreeing over the motives that people have for obtaining wealth.

yea, i wish i could remember the eact wording on just one question. i think forgot them as soon as i read them
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: IamtheLSAT on June 13, 2006, 12:36:14 PM
also, as for the wealth/ prestige debate... can someone elaborate on the answer choice "the debate is over whether or not prestige is why people want wealth"... im pretty sure the correct answer was worded slightly different than that, but was getting at the same thing... does anyone else remember this?

Yeah, I remember something different too.  It wasn't that obvious, I don't think.

From what I can recollect, I think the first guy said that people only desire more than what they currently have for social prestige/standing.

Guy 2 said, no, money is a universal medium of exchange or something...some people want to be able to buy things that they like, irregardless of what other people think of them.

The answer (the one i believe i picked, anyway) sounded similar to what was described above; it was whichever answer noted that the point at issue was the reason people desire wealth.

I definitely agree.  I think that the answer had to do with them disagreeing over the motives that people have for obtaining wealth.

I remember this much, but I also remember none of the answer choices being quite so explicit about it. If it had been so explicit as "the reason people desire wealth", i think i would have found the answer immediately.

wasnt it something like "people are not indifferent for their reasons for acquiring wealth" ????

or am i out in left field?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 12:39:08 PM
I don't remember the flouridated water supply or the medical v. non-medical testing question...further explanations?



Here are some, probably mostly experimental, that I do remember and haven't been mentioned:

1. universities having a policy of citing works or something and therefore deciding to use one of two types of computer programs because its policy does the same thing.

2. a question stem whose answer, I believe, was that politicians will do what they promise to do in the campaign.

3. one about advertisements using visuals of things their target audience feels positively about to get people to like their products

4. whether groups in society which are evil are so because of the qualities of the people in the groups

5. ants carrying food/wastes and dumping them in another ant colony

6. athlete's large salaries and whether they are fair because they make lots of money for the team

7. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

8. motivational posters and whether they can increase the motivation of already motivated workers

9. women's lower incidence of heart disease and why some men who do something in common with the women also have a lower incidence

10. the gas meter one, a conflict resolve question about a man getting a new and improved gas meter whose bill went up after

11. assigning values/ethics to countries even though you can't because they are not people

12. some test involving giving therapy to a group of people, 20% of whom improved after 4 months and 36% of whom improved in some other amount of time (one of the answer choices for this were that people not improving were more likely to drop out of the program)

13. some f'ed up one about exercizing back muscles on both sides

these are just scraps, but I do remember them--any thoughts?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 12:39:24 PM
Another new question. This is fuzzy but...

A bunch of towns get water from the same (?) reservoir. Bacteria can infect the towns' water via the original source, or through faulty pipes. Many (30?) of the towns use chlorine to disinfect their water. Yet the (20?) towns that did not use chlorine actually had less bacteria in their water.
Q): Which best resolves this paradox?
A): The regional government required the towns that didn't use chlorine to uphold higher safety standards in other ways (I think perhaps with their pipes).

I know I did not have ANY experimental LR sections, so does anyone remember this a little clearer than I do?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: doibhilin on June 13, 2006, 12:41:02 PM
Can someone explain the logic behind #13, the music/math correlation?

As I remember it, the question said, "There's a correlation between music and math ability.  But that doesn't necessarily mean the skills are the same.  It's possible that kids who are good in these subjects come from homes that nurture learning."  Rough, but that was the main thrust.

I answered the one about vegetables.  Something like "People who eat vegetables are in some way healthier than average.  But that doesn't necessarily mean that the vegetables cause good health; the correlation might be coincidental."

I'm not totally confident in this answer, but I remember crossing off the hearing one early on.  Bad hearing seemed too specific an explanation; I felt like the original argued that there might be a very general lurking variable.  They just didn't seem parallel to me.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 12:42:13 PM
I don't remember the flouridated water supply or the medical v. non-medical testing question...further explanations?



Here are some, probably mostly experimental, that I do remember and haven't been mentioned:

1. universities having a policy of citing works or something and therefore deciding to use one of two types of computer programs because its policy does the same thing.

2. a question stem whose answer, I believe, was that politicians will do what they promise to do in the campaign.

3. one about advertisements using visuals of things their target audience feels positively about to get people to like their products

4. whether groups in society which are evil are so because of the qualities of the people in the groups

5. ants carrying food/wastes and dumping them in another ant colony

6. athlete's large salaries and whether they are fair because they make lots of money for the team

7. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

8. motivational posters and whether they can increase the motivation of already motivated workers

9. women's lower incidence of heart disease and why some men who do something in common with the women also have a lower incidence

10. the gas meter one, a conflict resolve question about a man getting a new and improved gas meter whose bill went up after

11. assigning values/ethics to countries even though you can't because they are not people

12. some test involving giving therapy to a group of people, 20% of whom improved after 4 months and 36% of whom improved in some other amount of time (one of the answer choices for this were that people not improving were more likely to drop out of the program)

13. some f'ed up one about exercizing back muscles on both sides

these are just scraps, but I do remember them--any thoughts?

#6 is real.

#7 was def. in the test, but was that the answer to another parallel reasoning stimulus? can't recall at the moment.

The rest are experimental, or we have already.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 12:42:38 PM
I don't remember the flouridated water supply or the medical v. non-medical testing question...further explanations?



Here are some, probably mostly experimental, that I do remember and haven't been mentioned:

1. universities having a policy of citing works or something and therefore deciding to use one of two types of computer programs because its policy does the same thing.

2. a question stem whose answer, I believe, was that politicians will do what they promise to do in the campaign.

3. one about advertisements using visuals of things their target audience feels positively about to get people to like their products

4. whether groups in society which are evil are so because of the qualities of the people in the groups

5. ants carrying food/wastes and dumping them in another ant colony

6. athlete's large salaries and whether they are fair because they make lots of money for the team

7. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

8. motivational posters and whether they can increase the motivation of already motivated workers

9. women's lower incidence of heart disease and why some men who do something in common with the women also have a lower incidence

10. the gas meter one, a conflict resolve question about a man getting a new and improved gas meter whose bill went up after

11. assigning values/ethics to countries even though you can't because they are not people

12. some test involving giving therapy to a group of people, 20% of whom improved after 4 months and 36% of whom improved in some other amount of time (one of the answer choices for this were that people not improving were more likely to drop out of the program)

13. some f'ed up one about exercizing back muscles on both sides

these are just scraps, but I do remember them--any thoughts?

I remember the athlete salaries one, the pilots/sleep deprivation one and the test involving group therapy (12).  I believe that for the pilots one, that was actually an answer choice, and not the question stimulus.  I can't remember the stiumulus.

I also had experimental LR though.

I don't remember any of the rest, so they are probably experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 12:42:43 PM
Another new question. This is fuzzy but...

A bunch of towns get water from the same (?) reservoir. Bacteria can infect the towns' water via the original source, or through faulty pipes. Many (30?) of the towns use chlorine to disinfect their water. Yet the (20?) towns that did not use chlorine actually had less bacteria in their water.
Q): Which best resolves this paradox?
A): The regional government required the towns that didn't use chlorine to uphold higher safety standards in other ways (I think perhaps with their pipes).

I know I did not have ANY experimental LR sections, so does anyone remember this a little clearer than I do?

I did have an experimental section, and I do not remember this one AT ALL--maybe it's from a practice test you took. If not, it's odd that I don't remember it. I tend to have a bizarre memory for useless things like LSAT questions :)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: strivergirl on June 13, 2006, 12:42:47 PM
gish, sounds good to me.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 12:43:42 PM
I thought the one with the prescriptions question had the correct choice "the more people regularly use a product which may be harmful to them, the more carefully it must be studied"

is this the same answer choice as the one that everyone is saying is TCR? or were there two very similar ones... i think i chose this one

There was one answer choice that said non-medical products should not be examined more closely than medical products except in the case where the non-medical product is ____.

Does anyone remember the specific wording of the answer choice that said "non-medical products should not be examined more closely than medical products except in the case where the non-medical product is ____." and why it was wrong.

Thanks
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 12:44:03 PM
I don't remember the flouridated water supply or the medical v. non-medical testing question...further explanations?



Here are some, probably mostly experimental, that I do remember and haven't been mentioned:

1. universities having a policy of citing works or something and therefore deciding to use one of two types of computer programs because its policy does the same thing.

2. a question stem whose answer, I believe, was that politicians will do what they promise to do in the campaign.

3. one about advertisements using visuals of things their target audience feels positively about to get people to like their products

4. whether groups in society which are evil are so because of the qualities of the people in the groups

5. ants carrying food/wastes and dumping them in another ant colony

6. athlete's large salaries and whether they are fair because they make lots of money for the team

7. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

8. motivational posters and whether they can increase the motivation of already motivated workers

9. women's lower incidence of heart disease and why some men who do something in common with the women also have a lower incidence

10. the gas meter one, a conflict resolve question about a man getting a new and improved gas meter whose bill went up after

11. assigning values/ethics to countries even though you can't because they are not people

12. some test involving giving therapy to a group of people, 20% of whom improved after 4 months and 36% of whom improved in some other amount of time (one of the answer choices for this were that people not improving were more likely to drop out of the program)

13. some f'ed up one about exercizing back muscles on both sides

these are just scraps, but I do remember them--any thoughts?


Great job!

I remember 3, 6, 7 and 9, and I didn't have experimental LR.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 12:44:20 PM
I don't remember the flouridated water supply or the medical v. non-medical testing question...further explanations?



Here are some, probably mostly experimental, that I do remember and haven't been mentioned:

1. universities having a policy of citing works or something and therefore deciding to use one of two types of computer programs because its policy does the same thing.

2. a question stem whose answer, I believe, was that politicians will do what they promise to do in the campaign.

3. one about advertisements using visuals of things their target audience feels positively about to get people to like their products

4. whether groups in society which are evil are so because of the qualities of the people in the groups

5. ants carrying food/wastes and dumping them in another ant colony

6. athlete's large salaries and whether they are fair because they make lots of money for the team

7. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

8. motivational posters and whether they can increase the motivation of already motivated workers

9. women's lower incidence of heart disease and why some men who do something in common with the women also have a lower incidence

10. the gas meter one, a conflict resolve question about a man getting a new and improved gas meter whose bill went up after

11. assigning values/ethics to countries even though you can't because they are not people

12. some test involving giving therapy to a group of people, 20% of whom improved after 4 months and 36% of whom improved in some other amount of time (one of the answer choices for this were that people not improving were more likely to drop out of the program)

13. some f'ed up one about exercizing back muscles on both sides

these are just scraps, but I do remember them--any thoughts?

#6 is real.

#7 was def. in the test, but was that the answer to another parallel reasoning stimulus? can't recall at the moment.

The rest are experimental, or we have already.

Assuming #6 is real, the answer is that any salary that the coaches are willing to pay is fair.  That assumption would justify the conclusion.

I believe it was answer choice (C) or (D).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: CDX on June 13, 2006, 12:44:30 PM
2. a question stem whose answer, I believe, was that politicians will do what they promise to do in the campaign.

9. women's lower incidence of heart disease and why some men who do something in common with the women also have a lower incidence

Were definately in...I took the one with an LG experimental and had these
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: tavarua88 on June 13, 2006, 12:45:04 PM
i second 6.  on second thought i might have confused 7 with another answer...only had 2 LR...

I don't remember the flouridated water supply or the medical v. non-medical testing question...further explanations?



Here are some, probably mostly experimental, that I do remember and haven't been mentioned:

1. universities having a policy of citing works or something and therefore deciding to use one of two types of computer programs because its policy does the same thing.

2. a question stem whose answer, I believe, was that politicians will do what they promise to do in the campaign.

3. one about advertisements using visuals of things their target audience feels positively about to get people to like their products

4. whether groups in society which are evil are so because of the qualities of the people in the groups

5. ants carrying food/wastes and dumping them in another ant colony

6. athlete's large salaries and whether they are fair because they make lots of money for the team

7. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

8. motivational posters and whether they can increase the motivation of already motivated workers

9. women's lower incidence of heart disease and why some men who do something in common with the women also have a lower incidence

10. the gas meter one, a conflict resolve question about a man getting a new and improved gas meter whose bill went up after

11. assigning values/ethics to countries even though you can't because they are not people

12. some test involving giving therapy to a group of people, 20% of whom improved after 4 months and 36% of whom improved in some other amount of time (one of the answer choices for this were that people not improving were more likely to drop out of the program)

13. some f'ed up one about exercizing back muscles on both sides

these are just scraps, but I do remember them--any thoughts?

#6 is real.

#7 was def. in the test, but was that the answer to another parallel reasoning stimulus? can't recall at the moment.

The rest are experimental, or we have already.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 12:46:26 PM
I don't remember the flouridated water supply or the medical v. non-medical testing question...further explanations?



Here are some, probably mostly experimental, that I do remember and haven't been mentioned:

1. universities having a policy of citing works or something and therefore deciding to use one of two types of computer programs because its policy does the same thing.

2. a question stem whose answer, I believe, was that politicians will do what they promise to do in the campaign.

3. one about advertisements using visuals of things their target audience feels positively about to get people to like their products

4. whether groups in society which are evil are so because of the qualities of the people in the groups

5. ants carrying food/wastes and dumping them in another ant colony

6. athlete's large salaries and whether they are fair because they make lots of money for the team

7. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

8. motivational posters and whether they can increase the motivation of already motivated workers

9. women's lower incidence of heart disease and why some men who do something in common with the women also have a lower incidence

10. the gas meter one, a conflict resolve question about a man getting a new and improved gas meter whose bill went up after

11. assigning values/ethics to countries even though you can't because they are not people

12. some test involving giving therapy to a group of people, 20% of whom improved after 4 months and 36% of whom improved in some other amount of time (one of the answer choices for this were that people not improving were more likely to drop out of the program)

13. some f'ed up one about exercizing back muscles on both sides

these are just scraps, but I do remember them--any thoughts?

#6 is real.

#7 was def. in the test, but was that the answer to another parallel reasoning stimulus? can't recall at the moment.

The rest are experimental, or we have already.

Assuming #6 is real, the answer is that any salary that the coaches are willing to pay is fair.  That assumption would justify the conclusion.

I believe it was answer choice (C) or (D).

I put this too, and it's NOT experimental.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 12:47:13 PM
i second 6 and 7 only had 2 LR...


Does anyone remember the stimulus for #7?  I think the pilot answer choice is the correct response.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 12:48:15 PM
I had LR exp, so my recollections might not matter. Here's what I remember, anyway...

1. universities having a policy of citing works or something and therefore deciding to use one of two types of computer programs because its policy does the same thing.

Yes. Had to do with open-source programming being more in concordance with university's stance on research and republication.


2. a question stem whose answer, I believe, was that politicians will do what they promise to do in the campaign.

This is already on page 1.


3. one about advertisements using visuals of things their target audience feels positively about to get people to like their products

Yes. Answer was pretty obvious.


4. whether groups in society which are evil are so because of the qualities of the people in the groups

Yes. Answer was the vaguest choice, something like "the whole is determined by its parts."


5. ants carrying food/wastes and dumping them in another ant colony

Yes. Answer was the author wrongly assumes dump sites are not food.


6. athlete's large salaries and whether they are fair because they make lots of money for the team

Yes. I think I chose "extraordinarily high salaries are fair" as the necessary assumption, but doubted that choice.


7. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

Don't remember this, which is very strange if we had the same LR sections.


8. motivational posters and whether they can increase the motivation of already motivated workers

Yes. Answer: motivational posters would motivate even those workers who are already motivated.


9. women's lower incidence of heart disease and why some men who do something in common with the women also have a lower incidence

This is already on page 1. HDL.


10. the gas meter one, a conflict resolve question about a man getting a new and improved gas meter whose bill went up after

This was brought up already, and I think it's exp.


11. assigning values/ethics to countries even though you can't because they are not people

Don't remember.


12. some test involving giving therapy to a group of people, 20% of whom improved after 4 months and 36% of whom improved in some other amount of time (one of the answer choices for this were that people not improving were more likely to drop out of the program)

Yes. Answer: people improving short-term were more likely to stay in the program long-term.


13. some f'ed up one about exercizing back muscles on both sides

Yes. What was the assumption needed? Something like "exercising both sides equally leads to equal pulling on the spine."
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 12:48:48 PM
2. a question stem whose answer, I believe, was that politicians will do what they promise to do in the campaign.

9. women's lower incidence of heart disease and why some men who do something in common with the women also have a lower incidence

Were definately in...I took the one with an LG experimental and had these

"#9" is currently on our master list as:
14. HDL/LD Cholesterol/Men vs Women
Answer: HDLS not leaving the blood as easily

One of the answers was about men whose HDL count was abnormally high, equally the average for women, having lower heart disease. This did help explain the paradox, so was a wrong answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 12:50:23 PM
#7, about the pilot, may have been the last question on the 26 question section.  I think that the answer had something to do with the pilot being tired for other reasons.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: LSACcansuckmy(L)eftSAC on June 13, 2006, 12:50:49 PM
also, as for the wealth/ prestige debate... can someone elaborate on the answer choice "the debate is over whether or not prestige is why people want wealth"... im pretty sure the correct answer was worded slightly different than that, but was getting at the same thing... does anyone else remember this?

Yeah, I remember something different too.  It wasn't that obvious, I don't think.

From what I can recollect, I think the first guy said that people only desire more than what they currently have for social prestige/standing.

Guy 2 said, no, money is a universal medium of exchange or something...some people want to be able to buy things that they like, irregardless of what other people think of them.

The answer (the one i believe i picked, anyway) sounded similar to what was described above; it was whichever answer noted that the point at issue was the reason people desire wealth.

I definitely agree.  I think that the answer had to do with them disagreeing over the motives that people have for obtaining wealth.

I remember this much, but I also remember none of the answer choices being quite so explicit about it. If it had been so explicit as "the reason people desire wealth", i think i would have found the answer immediately.

wasnt it something like "people are not indifferent for their reasons for acquiring wealth" ????

or am i out in left field?

IamtheLSAT - you certainly aren't out in left field, and as I think about it more, it might have been an obtusely-worded answer choice, something along the lines of, "People want wealth for different reasons," to which guy1 would say no (b/c I think the key word "only" was in his statement) but guy2 would say that it is possible.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 12:51:07 PM
#7, about the pilot, may have been the last question on the 26 question section.  I think that the answer had something to do with the pilot being tired for other reasons.

Do you remember which letter it was?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 12:52:49 PM
#7, about the pilot, may have been the last question on the 26 question section.  I think that the answer had something to do with the pilot being tired for other reasons.

Do you remember which letter it was?

I really don't.  Maybe D?  I don't feel like it was the first or last, but this is a guess.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: 245 on June 13, 2006, 12:52:53 PM
#7, about the pilot, may have been the last question on the 26 question section.  I think that the answer had something to do with the pilot being tired for other reasons.

Hmm...I think it was in the middle.  Like question 18 or 19.

The answer was stated something like:

Pilots on overnight flights are disoriented by the rising sun.  Therefore, they cannot be suffering from sleep deprivation, which also causes disorientation.

I believe it was a parallel the flaw question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 12:53:56 PM
#7, about the pilot, may have been the last question on the 26 question section.  I think that the answer had something to do with the pilot being tired for other reasons.

Hmm...I think it was in the middle.  Like question 18 or 19.

The answer was stated something like:

Pilots on overnight flights are disoriented by the rising sun.  Therefore, they cannot be suffering from sleep deprivation, which also causes disorientation.

I believe it was a parallel the flaw question.

You're probably right.  My disorientation on the test may have resulted in thinking it was at the end.;)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 12:55:47 PM
3. one about advertisements using visuals of things their target audience feels positively about to get people to like their products

What can be inferred?
Answer: they would put pictures of visuals that provoke positive feelings next to their products in the magazine ad (or was it tv ad?)


6. athlete's large salaries and whether they are fair because they make lots of money for the team

What assumption is needed?
Answer: all extraordinarily high salaries are fair (?) (something sketchy like that, something that implied all salaries are fair, even the highest ones)


7. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

I didn't get to the last 3 questions on that section, and this appears to be one of those. Anyone remember the letter answer?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 12:56:55 PM
Another new question. This is fuzzy but...

A bunch of towns get water from the same (?) reservoir. Bacteria can infect the towns' water via the original source, or through faulty pipes. Many (30?) of the towns use chlorine to disinfect their water. Yet the (20?) towns that did not use chlorine actually had less bacteria in their water.
Q): Which best resolves this paradox?
A): The regional government required the towns that didn't use chlorine to uphold higher safety standards in other ways (I think perhaps with their pipes).

I know I did not have ANY experimental LR sections, so does anyone remember this a little clearer than I do?


Seriously, can no one confirm this? I feel very strongly it was on the test. I even checked the last practice test I took on Saturday... But I seriously doubt I retained any question for that long. I am committed to this question existing. Someone tell me I'm right.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 12:58:52 PM
The advertisement was experimental, I'm fairly sure.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: jabrams817 on June 13, 2006, 12:59:58 PM
I strongly disagree with the current credited response for 48 (I think), the one about the salaries of rich athletes and fairness. I put that the assumption was that the "free market is the fairest system," because the guy speaking based his opinion that the system was fair on the very fact that it was a free-market system. I think it was an early one (A/B). I was very confident it was the right answer, too.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Cantillon on June 13, 2006, 01:00:15 PM
Another new question. This is fuzzy but...

A bunch of towns get water from the same (?) reservoir. Bacteria can infect the towns' water via the original source, or through faulty pipes. Many (30?) of the towns use chlorine to disinfect their water. Yet the (20?) towns that did not use chlorine actually had less bacteria in their water.
Q): Which best resolves this paradox?
A): The regional government required the towns that didn't use chlorine to uphold higher safety standards in other ways (I think perhaps with their pipes).

I know I did not have ANY experimental LR sections, so does anyone remember this a little clearer than I do?


Seriously, can no one confirm this? I feel very strongly it was on the test. I even checked the last practice test I took on Saturday... But I seriously doubt I retained any question for that long. I am committed to this question existing. Someone tell me I'm right.

It was on the test.  I don't remember the answer except that I thought it was fairly straight forward.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: wiretin on June 13, 2006, 01:01:35 PM
just to clarify, in regard to the athlete $$ question, one responce was whatever the managers will willing to pay, not the coaches. the answer on the first page may confuse people. at any rate, i picked fair salaries are determined by market forces.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 01:02:28 PM
48. Athletes and their large salaries justify the conclusion question
Answer: Any salary that the coaches are willing to pay is fair

Can somebody confirm that this answer started with the statement: "In a free market, any salary the coaches....." ????

Please. Anybody.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 01:02:35 PM
Another new question. This is fuzzy but...

A bunch of towns get water from the same (?) reservoir. Bacteria can infect the towns' water via the original source, or through faulty pipes. Many (30?) of the towns use chlorine to disinfect their water. Yet the (20?) towns that did not use chlorine actually had less bacteria in their water.
Q): Which best resolves this paradox?
A): The regional government required the towns that didn't use chlorine to uphold higher safety standards in other ways (I think perhaps with their pipes).

I know I did not have ANY experimental LR sections, so does anyone remember this a little clearer than I do?


Seriously, can no one confirm this? I feel very strongly it was on the test. I even checked the last practice test I took on Saturday... But I seriously doubt I retained any question for that long. I am committed to this question existing. Someone tell me I'm right.

I very very faintly remember this. It seems like a gimme question, probably from the beginning of a section.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: wiretin on June 13, 2006, 01:03:06 PM
Another new question. This is fuzzy but...

A bunch of towns get water from the same (?) reservoir. Bacteria can infect the towns' water via the original source, or through faulty pipes. Many (30?) of the towns use chlorine to disinfect their water. Yet the (20?) towns that did not use chlorine actually had less bacteria in their water.
Q): Which best resolves this paradox?
A): The regional government required the towns that didn't use chlorine to uphold higher safety standards in other ways (I think perhaps with their pipes).

I know I did not have ANY experimental LR sections, so does anyone remember this a little clearer than I do?


Seriously, can no one confirm this? I feel very strongly it was on the test. I even checked the last practice test I took on Saturday... But I seriously doubt I retained any question for that long. I am committed to this question existing. Someone tell me I'm right.

I did not have an experimental LR and I definetly did not see that question.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 4.. that's right I said it! 4 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 01:05:30 PM
Another new question. This is fuzzy but...

A bunch of towns get water from the same (?) reservoir. Bacteria can infect the towns' water via the original source, or through faulty pipes. Many (30?) of the towns use chlorine to disinfect their water. Yet the (20?) towns that did not use chlorine actually had less bacteria in their water.
Q): Which best resolves this paradox?
A): The regional government required the towns that didn't use chlorine to uphold higher safety standards in other ways (I think perhaps with their pipes).

I know I did not have ANY experimental LR sections, so does anyone remember this a little clearer than I do?


Seriously, can no one confirm this? I feel very strongly it was on the test. I even checked the last practice test I took on Saturday... But I seriously doubt I retained any question for that long. I am committed to this question existing. Someone tell me I'm right.

I very very faintly remember this. It seems like a gimme question, probably from the beginning of a section.

I really don't remember this, and I didn't have experimental LR.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 01:05:42 PM
ha, i'm an idiot. it actually is on a preptest. nevermind...
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 01:06:29 PM
ha, i'm an idiot. it actually is on a preptest. nevermind...

LOL, no worries.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 01:06:43 PM
ha, i'm an idiot. it actually is on a preptest. nevermind...

That would explain it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Schruted on June 13, 2006, 01:07:19 PM
No confirmation either way on the advertisements question yet?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: FossilJ on June 13, 2006, 01:08:19 PM
Hey guys, if anyone can remember anything about the THIRD GAME on the LG section, please head over to the LG Master List thread and post what you remember!

This is what we've got so far:

Quote
Classes Game - 5 questions, Grouping
Still missing most of the rules for this one.

Vaguely remember that for the last question, sociology and geography can't be on the same day, because S -> Z and G --> NOT Z.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: goosenesque on June 13, 2006, 01:12:46 PM
48. Athletes and their large salaries justify the conclusion question
Answer: Any salary that the coaches are willing to pay is fair

Can somebody confirm that this answer started with the statement: "In a free market, any salary the coaches....." ????

Please. Anybody.

I'm 100 percent sure that ONE of the answers started with the "free market" comment, but I'm not sure if it was the same answer that said anything about the coaches.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 01:17:12 PM
I put the one about "Any salary the coaches (or managers?) are willing to pay is a fair salary"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 01:23:09 PM
I put the one about "Any salary the coaches (or managers?) are willing to pay is a fair salary"

Second. I don't recall whether there was an answer choice that contained this as well as a recognition of the existence of a free market, but either way, the correct answer was largely "Any salary coaches/managers/owners are willing to pay is a fair salary."
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: wiretin on June 13, 2006, 01:24:37 PM
48. Athletes and their large salaries justify the conclusion question
Answer: Any salary that the coaches are willing to pay is fair

Can somebody confirm that this answer started with the statement: "In a free market, any salary the coaches....." ????

Please. Anybody.
e m
I'm 100 percent sure that ONE of the answers started with the "free market" comment, but I'm not sure if it was the same answer that said anything about the coaches.

Yeah you're mixing up two answers. Answer "A" was something like, the market economy is the only thing that determines fair salaries.

Another answer stated that whatever managers were willing to pay is a fair salary.

The second answer has been credited on the master list on page 1. However, I would argue that the market economy answer is the correct answer. The only parameters for gauging what is "fair" according the stimulas was what the market economy would permit. See, if fairness is itself determined or defined by the market economy, a coach can overpay/underpay a player and that players salary can still be "unfair" if it is outside the scope of supply and demand. For instance, consider how much Jalen Rose made for the New York Knicks last season. He was terrible, could not defend, relied on outside jumpshots and still got millions of dollars.

Furthmore, in a non-capitalist society it would not matter what the manager would be willing to pay.The player would still recieve a salary that is unfair. Thats how you know it is outside the scope.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zhyue on June 13, 2006, 01:25:58 PM
That's right. And there is another choice saying "fairest" system, which I thought for a while and then determined not the correct one based on "fairest"

I put the one about "Any salary the coaches (or managers?) are willing to pay is a fair salary"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 01:30:41 PM
just to clarify, in regard to the athlete $$ question, one responce was whatever the managers will willing to pay, not the coaches. the answer on the first page may confuse people. at any rate, i picked fair salaries are determined by market forces.

I think we are all talking about the same answer and simply wording it differently.  But the correct answer said 'any salaries the managers are willing to pay under a free marker are fair'.... or something close to that.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zhyue on June 13, 2006, 01:32:20 PM
I agree with market economy, but not very sure whether that is what I chose.

That's right. And there is another choice saying "fairest" system, which I thought for a while and then determined not the correct one based on "fairest"

I put the one about "Any salary the coaches (or managers?) are willing to pay is a fair salary"

Which one are you agreeing with zhyue, the manager or free economy?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: wiretin on June 13, 2006, 01:34:03 PM
just to clarify, in regard to the athlete $$ question, one responce was whatever the managers will willing to pay, not the coaches. the answer on the first page may confuse people. at any rate, i picked fair salaries are determined by market forces.

I think we are all talking about the same answer and simply wording it differently.  But the correct answer said 'any salaries the managers are willing to pay under a free marker are fair'.... or something close to that.

I'm certain that the answer that mentioned whatever managers are willing to pay made no reference to the market economy. That's why i crossed it out.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Floridaman on June 13, 2006, 01:37:48 PM
I"m pretty sure it was the "willing to pay" one also
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 01:39:08 PM
just to clarify, in regard to the athlete $$ question, one responce was whatever the managers will willing to pay, not the coaches. the answer on the first page may confuse people. at any rate, i picked fair salaries are determined by market forces.

I think we are all talking about the same answer and simply wording it differently.  But the correct answer said 'any salaries the managers are willing to pay under a free marker are fair'.... or something close to that.

I'm certain that the answer that mentioned whatever managers are willing to pay made no reference to the market economy. That's why i crossed it out.


Point taken, my answer mentioned the 'free market economy'...  For the same reason you have expressed.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Quadrophenia on June 13, 2006, 01:40:09 PM
just to clarify, in regard to the athlete $$ question, one responce was whatever the managers will willing to pay, not the coaches. the answer on the first page may confuse people. at any rate, i picked fair salaries are determined by market forces.

I think we are all talking about the same answer and simply wording it differently.  But the correct answer said 'any salaries the managers are willing to pay under a free marker are fair'.... or something close to that.

That's my answer too and I was absolutely certain that was correct.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 01:44:28 PM
The argument was "Salaries must be fair because managers are willing to pay them."

The assumption is, If managers are willing to pay, then it must be fair.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: crazyape on June 13, 2006, 01:45:26 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 01:46:09 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.


YES!!!! This is one I struggled with immensely, I don't remember the answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: FossilJ on June 13, 2006, 01:47:11 PM
The argument was "Salaries must be fair because managers are willing to pay them."

The assumption is, If managers are willing to pay, then it must be fair.

My thoughts as well.  It took me a while to filter it to that sort of simple statement, but I agree with you.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: FossilJ on June 13, 2006, 01:47:44 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.


YES!!!! This is one I struggled with immensely, I don't remember the answer.


Agreed.  I remember this one.  It was f-ing TOUGH.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Harper on June 13, 2006, 01:48:54 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Ooooh - this was definitely on there!  Let me ponder what I put on that one.  But we've got one of the final three here. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: kbb on June 13, 2006, 01:49:26 PM
jumping in a bit late here... but i seem to remember TWO answers regarding the athelete question with "whatever the managers are willing to pay = fair" - one was more restricted (maybe it was... "in a free market, whatever the managers are willing to pay = fair"), the other was just "whatever the managers are willing to pay = fair.  i went with the latter.  is that the answer people are going with of the two (leaving the market economy one aside for now).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 01:50:56 PM
Were there two? That would seem kind of bad..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: wiretin on June 13, 2006, 01:51:22 PM
The argument was "Salaries must be fair because managers are willing to pay them."

The assumption is, If managers are willing to pay, then it must be fair.

That does not justify the conclusion, it is circular reasoning.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: DocConstantine on June 13, 2006, 01:51:42 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.


YES!!!! This is one I struggled with immensely, I don't remember the answer.


Agreed.  I remember this one.  It was f-ing TOUGH.


I remember this one.  It was a "this person's logic is flawed because" question.  My answer was "because you don't always have to compare yourself positively to everyone or negatively to everyone".  However, there was another answer that looked enticing, but I can't remember it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 01:51:54 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Ooooh - this was definitely on there!  Let me ponder what I put on that one.  But we've got one of the final three here. 

i think the answer is that it overlooks the possibility of doing both? that seemed very right at the time.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: kbb on June 13, 2006, 01:52:09 PM
yes... it was an assumption if i remember correctly.  i put the one that said that the argument assumes that everyone one compares oneself to will either be below them or of higher status... basically the argument's conclusion was that you shouldn't compare yourself to others because if you compare yourself to people better than you you lose self confidence, but if you compare yourself to people worse than you you become dismissive... the argument is assuming you never compare yourself to anyone equal to you.

You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Ooooh - this was definitely on there!  Let me ponder what I put on that one.  But we've got one of the final three here. 
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: jabrams817 on June 13, 2006, 01:52:15 PM
"The argument was "Salaries must be fair because managers are willing to pay them."

The assumption is, If managers are willing to pay, then it must be fair."


-Wrong, the argument was "Salaries must be fair because they are determined by market forces."

The correct assumption is something along the lines of "the market forces system is the fairest system"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 01:52:36 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: GreyStreet on June 13, 2006, 01:53:34 PM
jumping in a bit late here... but i seem to remember TWO answers regarding the athelete question with "whatever the managers are willing to pay = fair" - one was more restricted (maybe it was... "in a free market, whatever the managers are willing to pay = fair"), the other was just "whatever the managers are willing to pay = fair.  i went with the latter.  is that the answer people are going with of the two (leaving the market economy one aside for now).

yes! i chose the latter as well.  i knew the was one that combined both!
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 01:54:19 PM
I put something about being able to compare without necessarily comparing the way the stimulus stated.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 13, 2006, 01:55:29 PM
yes! I remember the self confidence question, and I only had two LRs.

something about comparing yourself to people better than you or worse than you.

I think the answer was, just because you are self depracating (wrong word!) or whatever (from comparing
yourself to people better than you), doesn't mean you can still be self-accepting.

at least that's what I put...

As for the managers and athletes one- I also put that the assumption that whatever
managers pay the athletes is fair. It sounds like circular reasoning, but I think it
went more like "but managers are willing to pay the athletes those large sums! so it's okay." and the answer (assumption) is "if someone is willing to pay, then it must be fair".
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 01:56:03 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.

the answer was something like... "the argument over looks the fact that there could be other causes of being dismissive or self derisive than looking down/up to people" ... i.e. there could be an alternate cause.


This one is defintely on the real lr
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 01:57:36 PM
yes! I remember the self confidence question, and I only had two LRs.

something about comparing yourself to people better than you or worse than you.

I think the answer was, just because you are self depracating (wrong word!) or whatever (from comparing
yourself to people better than you), doesn't mean you can still be self-accepting.

at least that's what I put...

As for the managers and athletes one- I also put that the assumption that whatever
managers pay the athletes is fair. It sounds like circular reasoning, but I think it
went more like "but managers are willing to pay the athletes those large sums! so it's okay." and the answer (assumption) is "if someone is willing to pay, then it must be fair".


I second the answer of "willing to pay"

other choices were like
"Free market economy is the fairest" (we already know thats the market they play in, and just because the WHOLE is fairest doesnt mean that a part (salary of a given person) is fair)



Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 01:58:31 PM
I'm with puddlewonderful. I don't think the 'market price makes it fair' thing works because it wasn't clear from the package that the athelete salaries were determined by market price.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: DocConstantine on June 13, 2006, 01:58:42 PM
yes! I remember the self confidence question, and I only had two LRs.

something about comparing yourself to people better than you or worse than you.

I think the answer was, just because you are self depracating (wrong word!) or whatever (from comparing
yourself to people better than you), doesn't mean you can still be self-accepting.

at least that's what I put...

As for the managers and athletes one- I also put that the assumption that whatever
managers pay the athletes is fair. It sounds like circular reasoning, but I think it
went more like "but managers are willing to pay the athletes those large sums! so it's okay." and the answer (assumption) is "if someone is willing to pay, then it must be fair".


I second the answer of "willing to pay"

other choices were like
"Free market economy is the fairest" (we already know thats the market they play in, and just because the WHOLE is fairest doesnt mean that a part (salary of a given person) is fair)





Thirded.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 01:58:47 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but is this not the athlete argument:
Atheletes are paid fair salaries. BECAUSE
Managers are willing to pay them.

What justifies is if Managers are willing, then it must be fair.  

Structurally speaking
Managers are willing to pay athletes. (M-->W)
If they are willing to pay, they are fair salaries. (W-->F) (This is the answer choice)
THEREFORE, athletes are paid fair salaries.


Use the negation technique.  A salary that a manager is willing to pay is NOT a fair salary.  That attacks the conclusion.  The minority response is TCR.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 01:59:42 PM
Package? I meant passage. Apparently I have some latent homosexual tendencies I should examine.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 02:00:39 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.

the answer was something like... "the argument over looks the fact that there could be other causes of being dismissive or self derisive than looking down/up to people" ... i.e. there could be an alternate cause.


This one is defintely on the real lr

I think I put this, too.  Does anybody else remember this question?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: IamtheLSAT on June 13, 2006, 02:01:54 PM
On an random note, the flaw question about the oil company regulations? does anyone remember the other answer choices that may have been persuasive? the answer listed sounds familiar, but i cant determine whether or not it was the one i chose
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Harper on June 13, 2006, 02:02:26 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.

the answer was something like... "the argument over looks the fact that there could be other causes of being dismissive or self derisive than looking down/up to people" ... i.e. there could be an alternate cause.


This one is defintely on the real lr

Word.  Now that you say this, I remember that this is definitely what I put.  The key thing is that the conclusion of the argument was something like 'therefore people who don't compare themselves to people are not dismissive or self-whatever-it-was.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: DocConstantine on June 13, 2006, 02:02:34 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.

the answer was something like... "the argument over looks the fact that there could be other causes of being dismissive or self derisive than looking down/up to people" ... i.e. there could be an alternate cause.


This one is defintely on the real lr

I think I put this, too.  Does anybody else remember this question?

Read the bottom of page 58.  He's got the question basically in its entirety.  Personally, I agree with his answer (also like him, with some reservations).
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 13, 2006, 02:03:35 PM
whoops, I screwed up what I put about the 'self derisiveness' question a few posts up.

I think it went like "if you look up to people who are better than you, you are self derisive. if you look down on people all the time, you are {I forget}. Thus, those who are self accepting... {I forget- maybe don't look up or down on people?}". that's the skeleton I remember.

I put down the answer as "just because you look down or up at people and are self derisive doesn't mean you can't be self accepting"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: IamtheLSAT on June 13, 2006, 02:04:04 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.

the answer was something like... "the argument over looks the fact that there could be other causes of being dismissive or self derisive than looking down/up to people" ... i.e. there could be an alternate cause.


This one is defintely on the real lr

I think I put this, too.  Does anybody else remember this question?

i selected an answer like this as well, i think the answer choice was worded like "ignores the possibility that one may be self accepting but still not be accepting of others"

i may have articulated that really poorly, but I think we chose the same answer, and i'm pretty sure it's correct
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:04:18 PM
I had only two Lr's, and remember these three specifically: (i.e. there real, and the last three we need :)

1. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

This might have been the answer choice, but the question was a parallell flaw question.  THe stimulilus had the flaw of assuming  because A isn't the cause of B, A can't accompany B.  Answer was sleep deprivation can go along with being tired pilot even though it said sleep deprivation didnt cause the tiredness


12. some test involving giving therapy to a group of people
- this question had a placebo and a pill... explain why things stopped working after two weeks (i think it cured sleep deprivation????)

 Explain question..
Ans: People who have sleep deprivation sleep better in new enviroments (i.e. the pill did nothing, it was always the enviroment)


3. something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. (looking down on people and up to people of higher lower ability)
Q: flaw
Ans: Overlooks that dismissiveness/self derison can be caused by something other than lookin up or down on people
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:04:46 PM
The stimulus specifically talked about comparing yourself to people who are better(?) or (worse)? (Forgot the exact words), but then the conclusion goes so far as to say "One shouldn't compare themselves to others"

The flaw is that it overlooks comparisons to people who aren't better or worse.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 02:06:08 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.

the answer was something like... "the argument over looks the fact that there could be other causes of being dismissive or self derisive than looking down/up to people" ... i.e. there could be an alternate cause.


This one is defintely on the real lr

I think I put this, too.  Does anybody else remember this question?

i selected an answer like this as well, i think the answer choice was worded like "ignores the possibility that one may be self accepting but still not be accepting of others"

i may have articulated that really poorly, but I think we chose the same answer, and i'm pretty sure it's correct

I think these answers might be different.  Could you be self-derisive and self-accepting at the same time, as one answer said?

I don't know which answer you're referring to.  But one said something about overlooking the possibility that you could be both of those things.  I did not pick that answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: DocConstantine on June 13, 2006, 02:06:27 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.

Quoting the stimulus.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Harper on June 13, 2006, 02:07:09 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but is this not the athlete argument:
Atheletes are paid fair salaries. BECAUSE
Managers are willing to pay them.

What justifies is if Managers are willing, then it must be fair.  

Structurally speaking
Managers are willing to pay athletes. (M-->W)
If they are willing to pay, they are fair salaries. (W-->F) (This is the answer choice)
THEREFORE, athletes are paid fair salaries.


Use the negation technique.  A salary that a manager is willing to pay is NOT a fair salary.  That attacks the conclusion.  The minority response is TCR.

It appears to me that there's some strong support for the minority answer on #48 being TCR.  I, for one, am convinced.  
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 02:07:28 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.


YES!!!! This is one I struggled with immensely, I don't remember the answer.


Agreed.  I remember this one.  It was f-ing TOUGH.


I remember this one very well--I chose "assumes that people cannot compare themselves to others who are the same as them"--i.e. not worse than them or better, because the argument says "people can therefore never compare themselves to anyone"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 02:08:03 PM
Guys,

One last crack at the sports salaries argument. I honestly think the stimulus went something like this:

Editorialist: Some people complain that athlete's salaries are unfairly high. But we live in a free market economy, and in a free market economy all salaries are determined by what employers are willing to pay. Thus, whatever the managers pay their athletes is fair.

This version of the stimulus establishes that a market economy exists, and defines a market economy as having willingness-to-pay determine salaries. It does NOT suggest fairness, which is the missing premise required for the argument -- that, given salaries are determined based upon willingness-to-pay, whatever the managers are willing to pay will actually be fair.

Therefore, I think the answer was a simple "Whatever the managers are willing to pay is a fair salary."

Also, watch out for the red herring of "Free market economies are the fairest systems." It could be true that the free market is the MOST fair system, and that NO system at all is actually fair. That is, free market economies could be simply the most fair of a bunch of ultimately unfair systems.

But in the end, this question comes down to the actual stimulus: Did the stimulus explicitly state that a market economy exists? I think it did. And did it state that market economies are fair, or did it state that market economies use willingness-to-pay to determine wages? I think the latter, and not the former. Thus my answer. But I admit I could be wrong.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 02:08:07 PM
The stimulus specifically talked about comparing yourself to people who are better(?) or (worse)? (Forgot the exact words), but then the conclusion goes so far as to say "One shouldn't compare themselves to others"

The flaw is that it overlooks comparisons to people who aren't better or worse.

yes, I heartily agree. The stimulus explains what happens if you compare yourself to people who are better or worse than you are, then concludes that (paraphrase) people who compare themselves to others can't be self-confident (or whatever the good quality was). The question was designed to test if you assumed that greater than and less than also included equal to.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:08:46 PM
Quote
The flaw is that it overlooks comparisons to people who aren't better or worse.

That's what I put. But was there really an answer that said it overlooks the possiblity that that's another cause for being not accepting of self and others. That sounds more right.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:08:54 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.

Quoting the stimulus.

I don't think this is the stimulus.  Pretty close though.  I'm certain the conclusion was, "There, one should not compare themselves to others..."

The answer was thus "Overlooks the possibility of comparisons to people who are neither ____ nor ____"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 02:09:48 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but is this not the athlete argument:
Atheletes are paid fair salaries. BECAUSE
Managers are willing to pay them.

What justifies is if Managers are willing, then it must be fair.  

Structurally speaking
Managers are willing to pay athletes. (M-->W)
If they are willing to pay, they are fair salaries. (W-->F) (This is the answer choice)
THEREFORE, athletes are paid fair salaries.


Use the negation technique.  A salary that a manager is willing to pay is NOT a fair salary.  That attacks the conclusion.  The minority response is TCR.

It appears to me that there's some strong support for the minority answer on #48 being TCR.  I, for one, am convinced.  

Count me as one that agrees the credited response was "whatever managers are willing to pay is a fair salary"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:10:13 PM
Quote
The flaw is that it overlooks comparisons to people who aren't better or worse.

That's what I put. But was there really an answer that said it overlooks the possiblity that that's another cause for being not accepting of self and others. That sounds more right.

But the cause of not being self accepting relaly isn't relevant to the conclusion "One should not compare to others"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:10:18 PM
The stimulus specifically talked about comparing yourself to people who are better(?) or (worse)? (Forgot the exact words), but then the conclusion goes so far as to say "One shouldn't compare themselves to others"

The flaw is that it overlooks comparisons to people who aren't better or worse.

yes, I heartily agree. The stimulus explains what happens if you compare yourself to people who are better or worse than you are, then concludes that (paraphrase) people who compare themselves to others can't be self-confident (or whatever the good quality was). The question was designed to test if you assumed that greater than and less than also included equal to.


hmm..I specifically looked for a choice that included the "overlook possibility of comparing yourself to equal people" ..don't remember if I found it or not though
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:11:37 PM
Quote
The flaw is that it overlooks comparisons to people who aren't better or worse.

That's what I put. But was there really an answer that said it overlooks the possiblity that that's another cause for being not accepting of self and others. That sounds more right.

But the cause of not being self accepting relaly isn't relevant to the conclusion "One should not compare to others"

The conclusions wasnt that. It was that people who don't compare themselves to others are self accepting and accepting of others.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 02:11:56 PM
The stimulus specifically talked about comparing yourself to people who are better(?) or (worse)? (Forgot the exact words), but then the conclusion goes so far as to say "One shouldn't compare themselves to others"

The flaw is that it overlooks comparisons to people who aren't better or worse.

yes, I heartily agree. The stimulus explains what happens if you compare yourself to people who are better or worse than you are, then concludes that (paraphrase) people who compare themselves to others can't be self-confident (or whatever the good quality was). The question was designed to test if you assumed that greater than and less than also included equal to.


hmm..I specifically looked for a choice that included the "overlook possibility of comparing yourself to equal people" ..don't remember if I found it or not though


Yeah, I also looked for this answer but kind of remember not finding it.  Are people sure that the answer said this and not something that may have implied it?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:12:18 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but is this not the athlete argument:
Atheletes are paid fair salaries. BECAUSE
Managers are willing to pay them.

What justifies is if Managers are willing, then it must be fair. 

Structurally speaking
Managers are willing to pay athletes. (M-->W)
If they are willing to pay, they are fair salaries. (W-->F) (This is the answer choice)
THEREFORE, athletes are paid fair salaries.


Use the negation technique.  A salary that a manager is willing to pay is NOT a fair salary.  That attacks the conclusion.  The minority response is TCR.

It appears to me that there's some strong support for the minority answer on #48 being TCR.  I, for one, am convinced. 

Count me as one that agrees the credited response was "whatever managers are willing to pay is a fair salary"



The right one is "willing to pay" -> it connects the stimulus and specifically makes the atheletes salary fair.

"The market forces make fair salaries"   answer is just too WEAK, all it says that market forces can make fair salaries, it DOESNT imply that ALL salaries under market forces are fair... just that AT LEAST ONE salary under market forces is fair.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:12:46 PM
Quote
hmm..I specifically looked for a choice that included the "overlook possibility of comparing yourself to equal people" ..don't remember if I found it or not though

That's my problem too. That seems to be the obvious solution but I don't remember finding it. Unless I went retarded on the test.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:12:57 PM
No.  The conclusion was "One should not compare themselves to others, because..."
Everything after that because is a premise.

The answer that people were looking for is comparing to equal person,
Which is "Overlooks the possibility of comparing oneselves to those who are neither self whtaever or whatever'
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 02:13:09 PM
The stimulus specifically talked about comparing yourself to people who are better(?) or (worse)? (Forgot the exact words), but then the conclusion goes so far as to say "One shouldn't compare themselves to others"

The flaw is that it overlooks comparisons to people who aren't better or worse.

yes, I heartily agree. The stimulus explains what happens if you compare yourself to people who are better or worse than you are, then concludes that (paraphrase) people who compare themselves to others can't be self-confident (or whatever the good quality was). The question was designed to test if you assumed that greater than and less than also included equal to.


hmm..I specifically looked for a choice that included the "overlook possibility of comparing yourself to equal people" ..don't remember if I found it or not though


It wasn't phrased so nicely- it was, as above, something like "overlooks the possibility that comparisons can be to someone who is neither more successful or less succesful than you" (I think the descriptors actually had two parts each, like "more succesful and accomplished" or something like that. But like much on this test, that was all window dressing)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:14:18 PM
The stimulus specifically talked about comparing yourself to people who are better(?) or (worse)? (Forgot the exact words), but then the conclusion goes so far as to say "One shouldn't compare themselves to others"

The flaw is that it overlooks comparisons to people who aren't better or worse.

yes, I heartily agree. The stimulus explains what happens if you compare yourself to people who are better or worse than you are, then concludes that (paraphrase) people who compare themselves to others can't be self-confident (or whatever the good quality was). The question was designed to test if you assumed that greater than and less than also included equal to.


hmm..I specifically looked for a choice that included the "overlook possibility of comparing yourself to equal people" ..don't remember if I found it or not though


It wasn't phrased so nicely- it was, as above, something like "overlooks the possibility that comparisons can be to someone who is neither more successful or less succesful than you" (I think the descriptors actually had two parts each, like "more succesful and accomplished" or something like that. But like much on this test, that was all window dressing)

Bingo.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:14:22 PM
The stimulus specifically talked about comparing yourself to people who are better(?) or (worse)? (Forgot the exact words), but then the conclusion goes so far as to say "One shouldn't compare themselves to others"

The flaw is that it overlooks comparisons to people who aren't better or worse.

yes, I heartily agree. The stimulus explains what happens if you compare yourself to people who are better or worse than you are, then concludes that (paraphrase) people who compare themselves to others can't be self-confident (or whatever the good quality was). The question was designed to test if you assumed that greater than and less than also included equal to.


hmm..I specifically looked for a choice that included the "overlook possibility of comparing yourself to equal people" ..don't remember if I found it or not though


It wasn't phrased so nicely- it was, as above, something like "overlooks the possibility that comparisons can be to someone who is neither more successful or less succesful than you" (I think the descriptors actually had two parts each, like "more succesful and accomplished" or something like that. But like much on this test, that was all window dressing)


Oh well, if it was on there thats what I put, memory is kinda blurry
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:15:18 PM
Quote
It wasn't phrased so nicely- it was, as above, something like "overlooks the possibility that comparisons can be to someone who is neither more successful or less succesful than you" (I think the descriptors actually had two parts each, like "more succesful and accomplished" or something like that. But like much on this test, that was all window dressing)

Sonofabitch. I think you're right. I remember something like that. I must have been fooled by the window dressing. All I can remember thinking is that that should be the answer but I couldnt find it anywhere.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:16:44 PM
People confirm these weren't EXP (I had no exp and I remember them) and hash out the answer so we can complete the list

1. a parallel reasoning (I think) about a pilot being tired because of one reason, and if he could also be tired because of the other (sleep deprivation and something else)

This might have been the answer choice, but the question was a parallell flaw question.  The stimulilus had the flaw of assuming  because A isn't the cause of B, A can't accompany B.  Answer was sleep deprivation can go along with being tired pilot even though it said sleep deprivation didnt cause the tiredness


12. some test involving giving therapy to a group of people
- this question had a placebo and a pill... explain why things stopped working after two weeks (i think it cured sleep deprivation????)

 Explain question..
Ans: People who have sleep deprivation sleep better in new enviroments (i.e. the pill did nothing, it was always the enviroment)


3. something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. (looking down on people and up to people of higher lower ability)
Q: flaw
Ans: Overlooks possibility of comparing yourself to people of equal ability
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:17:01 PM
So where are we on the list now. Are the 'market' one and the 'self accepting' one both new. Are we only missing one?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: IamtheLSAT on June 13, 2006, 02:17:33 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.

the answer was something like... "the argument over looks the fact that there could be other causes of being dismissive or self derisive than looking down/up to people" ... i.e. there could be an alternate cause.


This one is defintely on the real lr

I think I put this, too.  Does anybody else remember this question?

i selected an answer like this as well, i think the answer choice was worded like "ignores the possibility that one may be self accepting but still not be accepting of others"

i may have articulated that really poorly, but I think we chose the same answer, and i'm pretty sure it's correct

I think these answers might be different.  Could you be self-derisive and self-accepting at the same time, as one answer said?

I don't know which answer you're referring to.  But one said something about overlooking the possibility that you could be both of those things.  I did not pick that answer.

hmmm to be honest, im not quite sure which one im referring to either... i do remember selecting an answer that was i think either D or E though... it was definitely an "overlooks the possibility" type answer, although im not sure how many of those there were to choose from
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 02:18:08 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but is this not the athlete argument:
Atheletes are paid fair salaries. BECAUSE
Managers are willing to pay them.

What justifies is if Managers are willing, then it must be fair. 

Structurally speaking
Managers are willing to pay athletes. (M-->W)
If they are willing to pay, they are fair salaries. (W-->F) (This is the answer choice)
THEREFORE, athletes are paid fair salaries.


Use the negation technique.  A salary that a manager is willing to pay is NOT a fair salary.  That attacks the conclusion.  The minority response is TCR.

It appears to me that there's some strong support for the minority answer on #48 being TCR.  I, for one, am convinced. 

Count me as one that agrees the credited response was "whatever managers are willing to pay is a fair salary"

I remember considering the "whatever managers are willing to pay is a fair salary" but not choosing it, because I thought the stem established that high-paid athlete's salaries are fair as long as they are "worth" something to the team (they are paid extortionately, but their participation results in the team making a huge profit).

I just thought the manager's one was screaming "trick" because of just how open-ended it was: whatever managers are willing to pay is a fair salary--what if they were willing to pay them nothing? or willing to pay tons to horrible athletes that caused the team to lose money? That would not make sense with the question stem. Does anyone remember any other options besides these two? I have no idea what I eventually chose.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:18:11 PM
So where are we on the list now. Are the 'market' one and the 'self accepting' one both new. Are we only missing one?

With the three I just posted, we're done..just need to has out the answers to some debated questions
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:18:16 PM
Can we agree that the "What managers are willing to pay is fair" should be the majority response?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: paigeroo on June 13, 2006, 02:19:24 PM
Is this is the consensus answer to the self confidence q?

People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:19:35 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but is this not the athlete argument:
Atheletes are paid fair salaries. BECAUSE
Managers are willing to pay them.

What justifies is if Managers are willing, then it must be fair. 

Structurally speaking
Managers are willing to pay athletes. (M-->W)
If they are willing to pay, they are fair salaries. (W-->F) (This is the answer choice)
THEREFORE, athletes are paid fair salaries.


Use the negation technique.  A salary that a manager is willing to pay is NOT a fair salary.  That attacks the conclusion.  The minority response is TCR.

It appears to me that there's some strong support for the minority answer on #48 being TCR.  I, for one, am convinced. 

Count me as one that agrees the credited response was "whatever managers are willing to pay is a fair salary"

I remember considering the "whatever managers are willing to pay is a fair salary" but not choosing it, because I thought the stem established that high-paid athlete's salaries are fair as long as they are "worth" something to the team (they are paid extortionately, but their participation results in the team making a huge profit).

I just thought the manager's one was screaming "trick" because of just how open-ended it was: whatever managers are willing to pay is a fair salary--what if they were willing to pay them nothing? or willing to pay tons to horrible athletes that caused the team to lose money? That would not make sense with the question stem. Does anyone remember any other options besides these two? I have no idea what I eventually chose.


It was "willing to pay"
"free market makes fair salaries"
"market forces make fair salaries"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:19:47 PM
Can we agree that the "What managers are willing to pay is fair" should be the majority response?

I'm in for that.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 02:19:54 PM
After taking this test, I would suggest that the LSAT writers are taking specific steps to counter the Hyper-prepping phenomenon. There were a number of questions that seemed specifically designed to take advantage of the fact that people who had taken 20+ LSAT's become very sensitive to the test-writer's thinking and patterns. I think this is an example of a question where someone approaching it fresh may be no worse off than someone who's been prepping for 6 months, because experienced test-takers may rule out the correct answer based on the "window dressing" that just makes it feel like a wrong answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:20:55 PM
Is this is the consensus answer to the self confidence q?

People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.


No.  Overlooks the possibility that individuals can compare themselves tot hose who are neither more able nor less able then themselves, or something like that.  

or.. maybe that's the exact same thing.. i'm all mixed up now.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 02:21:29 PM
So where are we on the list now. Are the 'market' one and the 'self accepting' one both new. Are we only missing one?

Market is on the master list.
Self-accepting is new.

The pilots' drowsiness was definitely on there. I am pretty sure it was the answer to a stimulus about parallel flawed reasoning. Something like...

X can be caused by either Y or Z. But because X and Y are not present, X is not present, either.
Q): Which of the following exhibits the same flawed pattern of reasoning?
A): Something about pilots' drowsiness.


The group therapy, on the other hand, I do not remember at all.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: middling on June 13, 2006, 02:22:13 PM
Can we agree that the "What managers are willing to pay is fair" should be the majority response?

I'm in for that.

I agree.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: Vox Populi on June 13, 2006, 02:22:17 PM
You guys might have got this one already: something to do with dismissivness and lack of self confidence. Kind of formal logicalish; i.e. "one is dismissive if they look down on people below them, but one lacks self-confidence if they are always comparing themselves to those with higher status."

I'm completely sure this was on a scored section, because I had two logic games sections.

Yes! The complete stimulus was something like:

Guidance counselor: Those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider less important and less able than themselves often become dismissive of others. But those who constantly compare themselves to people they consider more important and more able than themselves often become self-derisive. Thus, those who rarely compare themselves to anyone are the most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others.
Q: What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?

I struggled with this one as well, and ended up settling reluctantly on answer choice "E", wich was something like:
A: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

But I wasn't thrilled with it.

the answer was something like... "the argument over looks the fact that there could be other causes of being dismissive or self derisive than looking down/up to people" ... i.e. there could be an alternate cause.


This one is defintely on the real lr

I think I put this, too.  Does anybody else remember this question?

i selected an answer like this as well, i think the answer choice was worded like "ignores the possibility that one may be self accepting but still not be accepting of others"

i may have articulated that really poorly, but I think we chose the same answer, and i'm pretty sure it's correct

I think these answers might be different.  Could you be self-derisive and self-accepting at the same time, as one answer said?

I don't know which answer you're referring to.  But one said something about overlooking the possibility that you could be both of those things.  I did not pick that answer.

hmmm to be honest, im not quite sure which one im referring to either... i do remember selecting an answer that was i think either D or E though... it was definitely an "overlooks the possibility" type answer, although im not sure how many of those there were to choose from

The answer I'm talking about (overlooks the possibility), which I believe to be credited, was answer (E)
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:22:39 PM
i think the group therapy was another test.. because i thought about it the day BEFORE the lsat, the question invovling two groups of sleeping drugs..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 02:23:03 PM
The one about therapy I posted had nothing to do with pills--It was about a group of people who had a problem, let's say depression, it went like this:

A program was developed for people suffering depression. After undergoing therapy once a week for four months, 20% of participants felt better. After the same regime for six months, 36% of participants felt better.

Which of the following would explain this result:
the answer: something like people who didn't feel they were being helped after a period of time were more likely to drop out of the program.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: puddlewonderful on June 13, 2006, 02:23:25 PM
my memory has been jogged!

something like

"If people compare themselves with people better than themselves they become self derisive. Those who compare themselves with people worse then themselves are ______. Thus, those who do not compare themselves with other people are self accepting and ___"

my answer: just because you are self derisive, doesn't mean you aren't self accepting.

(of course, I remember the question as it fits my answer, so I might be wrong! I remember it how I interpreted it, so there's room for error. and I think I'm missing a sentence in there. )
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:24:35 PM
I am 98% percent sure that is not the conclusion.

I'm also CERTAIN it was a value judgement involving "One should not compare themselves to others because _______"

And my thinking connecting not comparing AT ALL and comparing to what was entioned in the stimulus.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:24:46 PM
Quote
No.  Overlooks the possibility that individuals can compare themselves tot hose who are neither more able nor less able then themselves, or something like that.  

or.. maybe that's the exact same thing.. i'm all mixed up now.

Naw dude. I put that too. We're wrong. It's wrong because the conclusion is "People who don't compare themselves to others are self accepting". That doesnt really overlook the possibility that people could compare themselves to those "neither more able nor less able then themselves".
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:26:52 PM
SADFoksapfok.. That's not the conclusion.  I underlined the conclusion and I can see it in my head perfectly..
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:27:14 PM
What Q# was this?
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: jgd224 on June 13, 2006, 02:28:26 PM
my memory has been jogged!

something like

"If people compare themselves with people better than themselves they become self derisive. Those who compare themselves with people worse then themselves are ______. Thus, those who do not compare themselves with other people are self accepting and ___"

my answer: just because you are self derisive, doesn't mean you aren't self accepting.

(of course, I remember the question as it fits my answer, so I might be wrong! I remember it how I interpreted it, so there's room for error)

i agree completely
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 02:28:40 PM
I'm certain the "overlooks the possibility that people can compare themselves to others who are no more or no less skilled/gifted/whatever than they are." The question was just classic LSAT--someone overreaching their argument and stating that people should never compare themselves to anyone. It wasn't even a hard decision to me. I am firmly behind answer E.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 3.. that's right I said it! 3 LEFT!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:29:18 PM
SADFoksapfok.. That's not the conclusion.  I underlined the conclusion and I can see it in my head perfectly..

you may be right. It may have been phrased as a value judgement but Im pretty sure the substantive content is something like what we have been saying.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: tmastro on June 13, 2006, 02:30:51 PM
Is this is the consensus answer to the self confidence q?

People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.

The conclusion was that if you don't compare yourself to others, you will be accepting of others. No value judgment involved. The right answer was that there are other reasons to not be accepting of others.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:31:04 PM
I'm pretty sure that the conclusion that is being discussed as the conclusion is in fact a premise that followed this statement "One should compare themselves to others, because...."
Because once I saw that, I didn't even really continue reading because the answer was in my head.  

The statement there is making a broad claim about not comparing at ALL.  Thee stimulus dealt with two specific types of comparisons.  The flaw was obvious.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: stormandstress on June 13, 2006, 02:31:46 PM
Sorry to go back to this, but I felt the need to comment.

Here's how I remember the argument.  The assumption was required that somehow made it seem like treating things like objects was bad (because they had no rights).  Something along those lines is waht I picked. 

Otherwise, who cares if we treat patients like mere objects? What if mere objects are treated with more dignity that anything else?

That's absolutely right. I remember this question vividly. The stimulus never implies that the right of the patient was violated. Instead, the prompt's conclusion was that the patient ought to be informed. In terms of analytics, this is distinct from claiming that a course of action should be taken because doing otherwise would compromise a right.  I think that at people might have believed that the conclusion was that "The patient ought to be informed because they have a basic right." which is certainly different than what the stimulus actually said.

Continuing with the LSAT's love for Kantian ethics, the final sentence of the prompt read as (something to the effect of) "Doing otherwise would treat the patient as an object." But there are two loose ends at the end of this argument. First, what's so bad about treating a person as an object? Second, is there a necessary dichotomy between humans and objects?

The answer choice that xerofactor (and myself) chose resolves both of these issues. Not only does it infer that objects DON'T have rights, but it also infered that objects cannot be humans. I think the latter part is taken for granted by most people, but it was in the answer choice.

However, if you decided that "basic rights cannot/shouldn't be violated" you would be pulling a red herring. Because the prompt doesn't explicitly say that the patient's right was violated you cannot support the conclusion that a course of action (e.g. informing the patient) should be taken.

Again, sylogistically you would get:

(a) Patient's have a basic right to be informed
(b) Deferring to the doctor treats the patient as an object (note, this is different from saying "Deferring to the doctor violates the patient's right)
(c) [Answer Choice] Basic rights ought not be compromised

(d) TF, the patient must be informed.


That doesn't follow.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:32:04 PM
The conclusion was that if you don't compare yourself to others, you will be accepting of others. No value judgment involved. The right answer was that there are other reasons to not be accepting of others.

I disagree.  I still see the conclusion, underlined, in my head.  That is not the conclusion.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 02:32:41 PM
49. Those who constantly compare themselves/most likely to be both self-accepting and accepting of others. What is the flaw in the counselor's reasoning?
Answer: People who compare themselves to others consider the people they are comparing themselves with to be either more important and more able than themselves, or less important and less able than themselves.


Was this really the wording to the answer?  I remember looking for something like this and not seeing it in such clear terms.  Maybe I just wasn't comprehending the answers very well.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:32:46 PM
May have been something like "people should not compare themselves to others because then they will be self-accepting and accepting of others". And what it overlooks is that you can compare yourself to people who are neither better nor worse.

Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:33:12 PM
Bingo.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:34:06 PM
Right, but that's not the answer we put.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:34:45 PM
That's the answer I put.  Whichever one talked about comparisons made to those who are neither self accept nor accepting of others.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:35:28 PM
The conclusion was that if you don't compare yourself to others, you will be accepting of others. No value judgment involved. The right answer was that there are other reasons to not be accepting of others.

I disagree.  I still see the conclusion, underlined, in my head.  That is not the conclusion.

ok...I think we need to hash out the stimulus in order to get the answer for this question...it depends on the conclusion of the argument
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: HOAH on June 13, 2006, 02:35:47 PM
Ah. Good choice. I didn't however.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:36:08 PM
The conclusion was that if you don't compare yourself to others, you will be accepting of others. No value judgment involved. The right answer was that there are other reasons to not be accepting of others.

I disagree.  I still see the conclusion, underlined, in my head.  That is not the conclusion.

ok...I think we need to hash out the stimulus in order to get the answer for this question...it depends on the conclusion of the argument

I agree.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: polkadot on June 13, 2006, 02:36:11 PM
For the object/rights question, I remember struggling between the two debated answers until I saw that one answer read "the basic right of a person should always prevail" or something to that effect. The key words were "of a person," i.e. if Bob's (or whoever) basic right was overruled, it would make him not a person, but rather something else, like an object (because for any person, his basic right would prevail)--which would result in the statement of the stem that "it would be treating him like an object rather than a person".
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: middling on June 13, 2006, 02:36:16 PM
Sorry to go back to this, but I felt the need to comment.

Here's how I remember the argument.  The assumption was required that somehow made it seem like treating things like objects was bad (because they had no rights).  Something along those lines is waht I picked. 

Otherwise, who cares if we treat patients like mere objects? What if mere objects are treated with more dignity that anything else?

That's absolutely right. I remember this question vividly. The stimulus never implies that the right of the patient was violated. Instead, the prompt's conclusion was that the patient ought to be informed. In terms of analytics, this is distinct from claiming that a course of action should be taken because doing otherwise would compromise a right.  I think that at people might have believed that the conclusion was that "The patient ought to be informed because they have a basic right." which is certainly different than what the stimulus actually said.

Continuing with the LSAT's love for Kantian ethics, the final sentence of the prompt read as (something to the effect of) "Doing otherwise would treat the patient as an object." But there are two loose ends at the end of this argument. First, what's so bad about treating a person as an object? Second, is there a necessary dichotomy between humans and objects?

The answer choice that xerofactor (and myself) chose resolves both of these issues. Not only does it infer that objects DON'T have rights, but it also infered that objects cannot be humans. I think the latter part is taken for granted by most people, but it was in the answer choice.

However, if you decided that "basic rights cannot/shouldn't be violated" you would be pulling a red herring. Because the prompt doesn't explicitly say that the patient's right was violated you cannot support the conclusion that a course of action (e.g. informing the patient) should be taken.

Again, sylogistically you would get:

(a) Patient's have a basic right to be informed
(b) Deferring to the doctor treats the patient as an object (note, this is different from saying "Deferring to the doctor violates the patient's right)
(c) [Answer Choice] Basic rights ought not be compromised

(d) TF, the patient must be informed.


That doesn't follow.

I agree.  The "objects" part of the stimulus seemed out of left field, so I think the answer choice did the best job of incorporating it into their conclusion the best.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:37:18 PM
Objects was not extraneous info.  It needed to be in the answer.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: Saja on June 13, 2006, 02:38:02 PM
The conclusion was that if you don't compare yourself to others, you will be accepting of others. No value judgment involved. The right answer was that there are other reasons to not be accepting of others.

I disagree.  I still see the conclusion, underlined, in my head.  That is not the conclusion.

ok...I think we need to hash out the stimulus in order to get the answer for this question...it depends on the conclusion of the argument

I agree.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: azraelx9 on June 13, 2006, 02:38:07 PM
The conclusion was that if you don't compare yourself to others, you will be accepting of others. No value judgment involved. The right answer was that there are other reasons to not be accepting of others.

I disagree.  I still see the conclusion, underlined, in my head.  That is not the conclusion.

ok...I think we need to hash out the stimulus in order to get the answer for this question...it depends on the conclusion of the argument


I remember the conclusion to be paraphrased as this:

"Thus, If you don't compare yourself to others, you will be self accepting and nondismissive"


Ans: "overlooks possibility that something else can cause you to be self deresive or dismissive than comparing your self to others"
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: doibhilin on June 13, 2006, 02:38:36 PM
I think you guys have the athlete salary question wrong.  

The stimulus went something like this:  "People complain that athletes have exorbitant salaries.  But sports teams make a lot of money and are in high demand.  These salaries are determine by the free market, thus they are fair."

We're looking for an assumption that is necessary to the argument.  If you assume that "any salary a manager wishes to pay is fair," then I guess the conclusion is true -- their salaries are fair.  But it has little to do with the actual argument.  

The stimulus didn't argue that the salaries were fair because they were chosen by the manager, he argued that they were fair because they were produced by a free market.  So the correct answer had to assume that the free market produces fair salaries.  I didn't like the fact that it said "fairest," but I'm almost certain that it was correct.

The answer you guys are saying is correct is outside the scope.  It isn't necessary to the argument made by the stimulus; it essentially assumes the conclusion.  In an assumption question you want to look for an unstated claim that links the evidence and conclusion; only an answer concerning the free market would do this.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: zerofact0r on June 13, 2006, 02:39:03 PM
I only remember the first half, which said "One should not compare oneself (or themselves) to others,..."
and I skimmed the remainder.  This was the conclusion.  The rest was a premise.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: DocConstantine on June 13, 2006, 02:40:01 PM
Sorry to go back to this, but I felt the need to comment.

Here's how I remember the argument.  The assumption was required that somehow made it seem like treating things like objects was bad (because they had no rights).  Something along those lines is waht I picked. 

Otherwise, who cares if we treat patients like mere objects? What if mere objects are treated with more dignity that anything else?

That's absolutely right. I remember this question vividly. The stimulus never implies that the right of the patient was violated. Instead, the prompt's conclusion was that the patient ought to be informed. In terms of analytics, this is distinct from claiming that a course of action should be taken because doing otherwise would compromise a right.  I think that at people might have believed that the conclusion was that "The patient ought to be informed because they have a basic right." which is certainly different than what the stimulus actually said.

Continuing with the LSAT's love for Kantian ethics, the final sentence of the prompt read as (something to the effect of) "Doing otherwise would treat the patient as an object." But there are two loose ends at the end of this argument. First, what's so bad about treating a person as an object? Second, is there a necessary dichotomy between humans and objects?

The answer choice that xerofactor (and myself) chose resolves both of these issues. Not only does it infer that objects DON'T have rights, but it also infered that objects cannot be humans. I think the latter part is taken for granted by most people, but it was in the answer choice.

However, if you decided that "basic rights cannot/shouldn't be violated" you would be pulling a red herring. Because the prompt doesn't explicitly say that the patient's right was violated you cannot support the conclusion that a course of action (e.g. informing the patient) should be taken.

Again, sylogistically you would get:

(a) Patient's have a basic right to be informed
(b) Deferring to the doctor treats the patient as an object (note, this is different from saying "Deferring to the doctor violates the patient's right)
(c) [Answer Choice] Basic rights ought not be compromised

(d) TF, the patient must be informed.


That doesn't follow.

Great analysis.  I fell for the red herring, oh well.
Title: Re: MASTER LR LIST - 1 MORE!!!!!
Post by: gish on June 13, 2006, 02:40:48 PM
Sorry to go back to this, but I felt the need to comment.

The stimulus never implies that the right of the patient was violated.

I disagree. The stimulus was very close to, "Doctors have a duty to pursue their patients' health and best interests. Patients have a right to be fully informed about negative health discoveries. When this duty and this right conflict, the right should prevail. The patients' right is a basic right. After all, to do otherwise would be to treat a human like a mere object."

The important thing is that the stimulus restricts its scope to situations where the duty conflicts with the right; not to allow the right to prevail in a case of conflict is, by definiti