Law School Discussion

Law Students => Incoming 1Ls => Topic started by: timebomb116 on April 03, 2008, 04:57:57 PM

Title: Summer Before 1L
Post by: timebomb116 on April 03, 2008, 04:57:57 PM
What are you guys doing this summer to fill the time before law school?  I don't know whether I should get a part time job or just relax for three months.  What do you all think?
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: El_Che on April 03, 2008, 05:43:10 PM
if you really don't need the money, take time off to travel, relax and have a life before law school consumes you  :)
for teh most part, employers really don't care what you did the summer before law school

Yea, if you aren't already working full-time (like me :( ), then relax, maybe read a pre-law book, but otherwise, try to enjoy the things in life that you won't have as much time to pursue once school starts.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: cantwaitforuva on April 03, 2008, 07:11:39 PM
relax!
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: Tetris on April 03, 2008, 07:21:41 PM
I'm working... :(
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: HastingsOneL on April 04, 2008, 05:41:46 PM
relax (and get in the habit of reading all the time).
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: rtqw on April 04, 2008, 06:53:42 PM
If there are some non-law related books that you want to read in the next year and a half, you should read them this summer. Not that you won't necessarily have the time to read for pleasure during the law school, you just might not have the motivation after reading your casebooks for several hours a day.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: rock.it on April 05, 2008, 08:38:23 AM
definitely enjoy your last free summer before law school if you can. you probably won't have another one for a while...
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: El_Che on April 05, 2008, 08:58:59 AM
Also, hang out with people who aren't going to law school and have NO desire to talk about anything law-related. It'll keep you sane.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: Cabra on April 05, 2008, 09:30:12 AM
I'll be working, and I plan to do LEEWS and lots of denser reading (mostly not law related) to get back in the habit. Maybe some E&Es...

But most of my spare time will be for fun stuff, although there's a part of me that thinks law school prep would be a blast...weird, but I think I was born this way.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: vjm on April 05, 2008, 09:37:22 AM
I think Cabra and I should form the "Geekier Than Most Law School Geeks Club". I can't wait to be done with this weekend, because all my major work will be done and I can start prepping.

I actually have to leave the books out of sight or I get too engrossed and neglect my schoolwork.

Prep Geeks Unite!
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: summerisnear on April 05, 2008, 09:53:52 AM
and lots of denser reading (mostly not law related)

Some Dostoevsky? 

I'll be working about 60 hours a week, going to concerts, and I'll try to read a few books.  Maybe one last vacation if I can cram it into my budget and schedule.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: nikegrrlvj on April 05, 2008, 10:33:35 AM
Travel, lots of reading, lazy summer stuff... I'm not sure if I'll work or not, but if I do, it won't be much.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: Cabra on April 05, 2008, 10:34:41 AM
and lots of denser reading (mostly not law related)

Some Dostoevsky? 


He's on my list. :)
I need to read more Virginia Woolf and Carson McCullers too.

vjm--I sat in on classes while visiting schools and I got so psyched about this law school thing! I think "overeager" is the right word to describe my current state. And I haven't bought any prep books because I know they'll become my lone hobby the second they enter my apartment. But then my grandpa, who is nearly as excited about law school as I am, confessed that he's sending me a zillion law related books. They've just started arriving (Black's Law Dictionary first), and I have a strong feeling that I'm going to be drowning in books about Roman and feudal law any day now, and then any hope of remaining a well-rounded person will go flying out the window.  ;D

Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: Penn263 on April 05, 2008, 01:10:40 PM
I think Cabra and I should form the "Geekier Than Most Law School Geeks Club". I can't wait to be done with this weekend, because all my major work will be done and I can start prepping.

I actually have to leave the books out of sight or I get too engrossed and neglect my schoolwork.

Prep Geeks Unite!

I already started my Torts and Contracts E&Es... suckers  ;)

Haha, no way. So have I. People say don't fry your brain over the summer, but I honestly think the fine details of Torts are pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: skeeball on April 05, 2008, 02:57:56 PM
You don't need to prep. You're already good at dense reading, that's why they let you into law school.

The best thing you can do to prepare for law school is try to start networking and making connections with potential employers in case your 1st semester grades disappoint. Maybe do some volunteer work. Anything that makes you less dependent on winter OCI for 1L summer jobs.

Reading all the E&Es will. not. help. Your profs might not cover 1/2 the stuff in them, or some of the rules they teach you might be different, and you're going to have to go back & re-read the stuff they did cover anyway.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: Jets on April 05, 2008, 07:10:53 PM
You don't need to prep.

Yes, we don't. But we will anyway  ;).

You're already good at dense reading, that's why they let you into law school.

I am actually a very slow reader. Furthermore, I wouldn't consider the E&Es dense. They are pretty straightforward. Sure the casebooks are a bit dense, but casebooks aren't as helpful as they once were in this era of study aids/Lexis-Nexus/internet, etc.

The best thing you can do to prepare for law school is try to start networking and making connections with potential employers in case your 1st semester grades disappoint... Anything that makes you less dependent on winter OCI for 1L summer jobs.

Great advice, but we can do that AND prep.

Reading all the E&Es will. not. help.

Did you do it? Did it help (obviously the answer is no if you did)? Regardless, a lot of people on this board and elsewhere have said they did and consider it one of the top factors in their making law review/etc. Sure, it doesn't replace hard work when you are IN law school, but I never said it would.

Your profs might not cover 1/2 the stuff in them,

True, but it will be on the Bar Exam regardless.

or some of the rules they teach you might be different, and you're going to have to go back & re-read the stuff they did cover anyway.

The prof might have different TERMINOLOGY that he prefers when explaining rules, but BLL is the essentially same from Harvard to Cooley. Battery is always battery, assault is always assault, etc. And yes we will have to re-read it. But obviously it will be much easier the second time around when we have already read it once (and under no time pressure, no less). That's the main point of prepping IMO. Not so much to memorize the rules of a given course, but rather to familiarize yourself with BLL course content (which is the same at every school). That way when other people get to law school, start a topic and say 'oh *&^%, what the hell is this? I don't get it,' we will say 'oh yea, intentional torts, I remember those, what were the specific types again? Oh yeah, assault and battery. Now I remember.'

I really, really recommend that you do not do what you are planning to do. It's completely useless, and will not yield any material benefit. Everyone I know who did this is at the bottom of the curve.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: MahlerGrooves on April 05, 2008, 08:04:15 PM
Well, for me the summer will be quite busy!  I am going to have to work somewhat in order to make some cash to carry me through the year.  But that's nothing compared to...

I'm getting married in late June.  Planning the wedding, then the wedding itself, all the post-wedding crap, and the awesome honeymoon we have planned will eat up a good portion of my mental, physical, and emotional energy this summer.  I told my girl that I would be full on about the wedding to compensate for the fact that, come September, she probably won't see me much other than eating, sleeping, and if she visits me in our little office room that we have (I already built my study station for next year).
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: Godson on April 05, 2008, 08:05:18 PM
Can someone fill me in on what is and E&E? Sorry, i'm lost.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: MahlerGrooves on April 05, 2008, 08:37:52 PM
Well, for me the summer will be quite busy!  I am going to have to work somewhat in order to make some cash to carry me through the year.  But that's nothing compared to...

I'm getting married in late June.  Planning the wedding, then the wedding itself, all the post-wedding crap, and the awesome honeymoon we have planned will eat up a good portion of my mental, physical, and emotional energy this summer.  I told my girl that I would be full on about the wedding to compensate for the fact that, come September, she probably won't see me much other than eating, sleeping, and if she visits me in our little office room that we have (I already built my study station for next year).

First off, Congrats!

In a case like this I don't think it makes to prep. You have more important priorities. I, on the other hand, have no job, nothing planned, and I am bored as hell. None of my friends will be in the area until mid summer. Hence why I don't think prepping would be bad.

Thanks!  I'm excited about being married - she is awesome!  The wedding is an entirely different story...

Prepping for you might also be a good way to keep you from going insane with boredom...
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: cantwaitforuva on April 05, 2008, 09:18:31 PM
Can someone fill me in on what is and E&E? Sorry, i'm lost.

E&E, or Examples and Explanations, is a series of study aids. They cover all of your major classes (ie Crim, Contracts, Civ Pro, etc). They explain legal concepts  - for example in the Criminal Law book there are sections on Mens rea, strict liability, causation, etc. At the end of each section they have "examples and explanations" hence the name. They give a situation and ask what applies and what does not, and then they explain the correct answer.

I think they are a very easy read and they give you a good idea of what sorts of concepts you will need to know. Depending on your prof, it might not all be relevant, but it gives you a nice background.

Make sure to get the most current editions (they only update every few years, so you can still buy used and get a current edition for most). New they're only $40-ish.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: thecrashlawyer on April 05, 2008, 09:27:07 PM
I'm not doing any prepping.  I will be working like 20 hrs a week at the hipster coffee shop in town.  Also, I plan on going on tour with a friend's band.  Should be a great summer. 
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: cantwaitforuva on April 05, 2008, 09:55:34 PM

I really, really recommend that you do not do what you are planning to do. It's completely useless, and will not yield any material benefit. Everyone I know who did this is at the bottom of the curve.

It is not completely useless for all of the reasons Earthbound mentioned. Will it help everyone? Maybe not, but I don't think it's useless. Maybe the people you know who did this and are now at the bottom of the curve have something else in common other than reading E&Es ( its that whole causation versus correlation thing)- my guess is they felt the need to prep ahead of time because they were nervous about law school and rightly so apparently.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: cantwaitforuva on April 05, 2008, 09:58:14 PM
I think Cabra and I should form the "Geekier Than Most Law School Geeks Club". I can't wait to be done with this weekend, because all my major work will be done and I can start prepping.

I actually have to leave the books out of sight or I get too engrossed and neglect my schoolwork.

Prep Geeks Unite!

I'll join! I've stuffed the E&Es in the closet so I'm not tempted. I think if prepping will stress you out then you shouldn't do it. But for those of us who are going to law school because we like the law, then prepping is fun. Plus the E&Es are a light read.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: skeeball on April 06, 2008, 06:58:18 AM
People talk about the E&Es like they're this golden study tool. They're NOT all that good. The Torts and Civ Pro are AWSOME (both by Glannon), the Contracts one is terrible, the Property one is kind of helpful, but the examples are terrible (and some of the answers are either wrong, or the opposite of what my prof taught), and Con Law one makes me sleepy.

Start with the hornbook that's keyed to your text and supplement with an E&E if necessary.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: jsb221 on April 06, 2008, 07:32:59 AM
I agree. I didn't find all the E&Es helpful. Torts and Civ Pro were great. In fact, my prof recommended the Civ Pro one. Glannon = good. As for the rest... I didn't find them helpful. I read maybe a section here or there. I got the hornbooks my profs recommended instead (for property and contracts) and in Con law, I got the one keyed to my textbook. They've been helpful.
As for commercial outlines, I found some that help, but not really. Its best just to do your own and maybe skim thru a commercial outline to supplement something you don't have or are unsure of. I did however find the Crunchtime series nice to review right before finals. It is simple to read, can be done in a day, and it covers all the major topics.
If at all possible, track down a 2L at your school who had the same prof as a 1L and get their outlines. In fact, hit them up for as much info as possible. Same goes for your profs. And do the practice exams if they give them, particularly if they are willing to look over them and give you feedback. They are the ones grading your finals, remember.
Law in a Flash cards can be useful too, mostly for the quick hypos though.
As you can see, I probably went overboard on supplements, hornbooks, etc., especially first semester. But I used it as a learning experience and have figured out what works for me.
Try buying what you can used, but be careful about getting something that is too old, particularly when it comes to Con Law, which is constantly changing, and Civ Pro because the FRCPs were recently amended. However, even if you get something a little older, you can still use it. Just be aware of the changes. Best part is you can sell them once you're done. As soon as the semester ends, I'm unloading my stash and trying to recoup some of what I spent.
Also, as for summer OL, I wouldn't spend too much of it reading up on the law. Professors have a VERY distinct way of teaching their subjects. You will learn what you need from them. I had some classmates that went in thinking they knew an area of the law and the Socratic method taught them a lesson. enjoy the summer and what free time you have now.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: cantwaitforuva on April 06, 2008, 10:17:53 AM
People talk about the E&Es like they're this golden study tool. They're NOT all that good. The Torts and Civ Pro are AWSOME (both by Glannon), the Contracts one is terrible, the Property one is kind of helpful, but the examples are terrible (and some of the answers are either wrong, or the opposite of what my prof taught), and Con Law one makes me sleepy.

Start with the hornbook that's keyed to your text and supplement with an E&E if necessary.

Well obviously a hornbook would be very useful, but we're talking about summer prep, when we won't know what texts we'll actually be using and therefore won't know what hornbook might be best.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: cantwaitforuva on April 06, 2008, 10:19:43 AM
For the current law students posting in this thread - where do you guys go to school?
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: Godson on April 07, 2008, 11:28:04 AM
Thanks cantwaitforuva, that was very helpful!  I will get my hands on the Torts and Civil Pro copies.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: AmericanGunner on April 07, 2008, 01:00:36 PM
In sort of an ironic twist, even though Michigan rejected me I moved to Ann Arbor for the spring/summer to help with the start-up duties at a new non-profit foundation. Barring some waitlist miracle and scholarship at UVa I'm headed to school at WUSTL.
Title: Re: Summer Before 1L
Post by: SplitFinger on April 08, 2008, 05:54:52 AM
I agree about the wildly varying quality of the E&E's.  As everyone has said, the two Glannon ones are good to give you a basic understanding of the subject.  The rest... eh.

Everyone has their own preferences about which type of study aid they find most useful.  After much experimenting, I have also found hornbooks to be most helpful.  What I generally do is ask the professor on the first day which hornbook they think is best (usually I don't have to, upperclass professors will often volunteer which hornbooks they recommend) and then get that, and read the appropriate sections after we go over them to figure out what it was that I was supposed to have learned.  (This is especially helpful in those few classes where the prof still uses the Socratic method, which as you will learn is actually intended to obfuscate, not educate.)