Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion

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 on: April 09, 2014, 09:14:42 PM 
Started by functionial drunk - Last post by functionial drunk
As always I appreciate the quality and timing of your input Miami88 the facts you are telling me are both relevant and applicable to my situation. I do however have some inquiries about the facts you cited. Firstly, you kind of oversimplify the difference between the employment statistics of FIU and FSU. For example, the Big law and public interest/gov. hiring percentages of FSU are double of what they are for FIU. This makes a difference because the size of FSU is comparable to that  of FIU whereas the University of Florida is much larger than both these institutions. I know were all pre law or current JD students but I am going to do some basic math so bear with me. If there is an average class size for FSU is 187 and 6% of their grads land a big law (big bucks) gig that would be 11.22 students from that class. Now FIU has an average class size of 155 with 3% of their grads landing a big law gig which would make it 4.65 students out of that graduating class landing jobs at a big law firm in Florida. I don't know whether to count that .65 as a roundup or a shorter FIU student (think 4" and less student) landing a big time gig. I am aware that FSU's class sizes are marginally larger but shouldn't I go with the school that offers more jobs straight up? What's the point of going to law school if your scared of the competition?

Another aspect of this discussion that I have to consider is what type of law school experience do I want? Sure I can play it safe and stay at home and have mommy and daddy do my laundry and cook all my meals while going to FIU but if I go to FSU I can be my own man and worry about my own business. Not to mention that I live with two other brothers here so it would be virtually impossible to study at home in Miami, I would practically be relegated to exclusively study at FIU law's campus. If I went to FSU I would have my own 1 x 1 apartment where I can control all the variables and live far away from the undergraduate part of campus where all the crazy Saturday football shenanigans would be going down. On top of that there is virtually no commuting in Tallahassee, everything is within a 15 minute drive. I know I previously said that FSU is not giving me financial aid but the actual truth is that I find out mid April whether they are going to give me some moolah or not. Although I would prefer to practice in Miami it is not the be all end all of why I want to go to law school. This city is great but there is a mind numbing amount of traffic to get around anywhere, its expensive, overcrowded, and a lot of people here are straight up rude and always in a rush. There are plenty of gorgeous cities in Florida such as Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville that I probably would not mind exploring after graduation. I work 7 days a week to save up for law school where I aim to have 10k straight cash for wherever I decide to attend. So yeah FSU would put me in the hole significantly more than FIU but if I land a sweet gig and almost certainly have a better law school experience wouldn't that count for something that you cannot put a price on?

Either way thanks for the help guys as you can tell I been stressing over this for the last half of 2013 and all of 2014 but I think of it as training for law school haha!  ::)

 on: April 09, 2014, 06:28:30 PM 
Started by mychan24 - Last post by mychan24
I did not get accepted to Concord Law School JD program, but they offered me a seat in their EJD. It's either I wait 6 months to retake it or start their EJD and retake the admission exam ( that's what the advisor told me). I really dont want to do their EJD because that is not my interest and it would be a waste of time if I do so.

I was just wondering what's a good alternative DL law school or any advice you guys can give me?

 on: April 09, 2014, 04:38:16 PM 
Started by tmack91 - Last post by heiressroxy
I received a traffic ticket a a juvenile and had to report it.  They want to know every thing about you.  Like the previous commentor stated, be honest to the best of your ability.

I wish you well

 on: April 09, 2014, 03:19:22 PM 
Started by etmerian - Last post by heiressroxy
I am unhappy after I received a rejection letter today from I.U.  I am no spring chicken and my oldest will be 22 years of age; I decided to go back to my first love, law school.  I submitted every thing early, I took the LSAT only to find out today, I was not accepted.

Rejection does not feel good, no matter how old you are, especially when you are up in age.  I applied to one school for the convenience, since I am a divorcee with children. 

I am not sure about online Law Schools.  I will start from the drawing board and complete a few more apps.

Any thoughts?  I wonder how the young people handle rejection letters.

Thanks for a place to vent.

 on: April 09, 2014, 10:44:11 AM 
Started by nreese - Last post by Miami88
As usual, I'm only an anonymous internet poster. You should assume that I and other posters on this forum are by no means qualified to comment. You should simply take our perspectives as just that, a perspective. Factor this in to your end decision with your own judgement...

FYI - mid 160s on the LSAT is hard. By no means is it impossible, but expectionally difficult. Further, these scores are typically attained by people with much higher GPAs (not always, but certainly more often than not). I'm not saying this to be mean, but I am trying to express reality so you can prepare accordingly. I'm sure you certainly can get a 165+, but I promise you it will be far more difficult than you probably think.

There are plenty of professions outside the scope of being a direct attorney that would benefit from a legal education. The ones you have expressed interest in are exactly those kinds of professions. Further, a JD will not in of itself make you seem wishy-washy if you don't pursue a career as an attorney. How you present your JD, and your perspective before, during, and after your JD will dictate this "wishy-washy"-ness. You should have strong, thoroughly researched and thought out reasons for your academic pursuits. So long as these are coming from an open, honest place, you will be fine (and probably in a better place than peers because of it).

One significant issue with a JD degree is that, if what you do afterwards will not benefit at all from a legal education AND it will not pay enough to cover your debt, then you are completely wasting your time, money, and energy. However, you are pursuing careers that would benefit from a legal education AND, from what is sounds like, won't have any real debt. You will be fine. But do some more research. What are the promotion/salary increases you could expect with a JD compared to without it. Is it worth it?

Depending on your undergrad degree and specific career prospects, I would look into JD/MBA programs. I would then supplement that with public policy courses and what not. I would also sit with people in hiring positions and/or positions you are interested in snagging to get their perspective.

Good luck!

 on: April 09, 2014, 04:18:39 AM 
Started by nreese - Last post by nreese
I haven't taken the LSATs and I'm about to finish my undergrad in a few months with an overall GPA of about a 3.2 (last 60 credits average GPA was a 3.68, however).  I'm expecting an LSAT in the mid-160s, but let's not count eggs before they've hatched.

That being said, I don't plan on going into law to become a lawyer.  My main goal, if I attended in Fall 2015, would be to go into the corporate world and use my J.D. as a basis for that career, eventually moving into entrepreneurial ventures.  Also on my radar is going into political work like lobbying and, once again, being an entrepreneur eventually. 

I'm fortunate enough to not have to worry about paying for law school so financing law school wouldn't be a problem.  My main concern is the warning I get from current J.D. students that people will think there's "something wrong with you" because I chose not to practice law or that I'm "too flaky" to be a lawyer, thus resulting in less job opportunities.  Granted, these concerns wouldn't be much of an issue if I was self-employed, so mostly I'm wondering if getting this law degree would be too much wasted time and if it wouldn't end up benefiting me in the long-run.  I personally couldn't imagine a law degree not coming in handy for either political or corporate jobs, but what do I know--I'm an undergrad.

Any kind of information on people who have taken this path or any of your opinions on it would be beneficial.

 on: April 08, 2014, 04:17:14 PM 
Started by functionial drunk - Last post by Miami88
As usual, I'm only an anonymous internet poster. You should assume that I and other posters on this forum are by no means qualified to comment. You should simply take our perspectives as just that, a perspective. Factor this in to your end decision with your own judgement...

It's not that ranking doesn't matter - it's that ranking on its own is almost arbitrary. A school's US News rank is based on several factors, some of which are extremely legitimate (employment statistics) while other factors are extremely elitist and minimally impactful on a graduate's career (selectivity). US News ranking are a great place to start your research and could potentially be used as a tie breaker, but it should not be the primary basis of your decision - particularly if the difference in ranking is minimal.

If we look up the important things (employment statistics, debt load, and realistic salary expectations) we see that, although FSU certainly is a stronger university relative to FIU, it is really only nominally so. Here is a side by side comparison...

Full Time-Long Term Employment Rate: 65%
Underemployment Rate (part time, temp jobs, etc.): 18%
Unemployed and still seeking work 9 months out: 3%
Class Size: 187

Fed. Clerkship: 1%
Big Law: 6%
Public Interest/Gov.: 30%
Business: 9%

Starting Salary Range (25-50-75th Percentile): $45-55kish
Debt: Approx. $120kish


Full Time-Longer Term Employment Rate: 57%
Underemployment Rate (part time, temp jobs, etc.): 14%
Unemployed and still seeking work 9 months out: 3%
Class Size: 155

Fed. Clerkship: 1%
Big Law: 3%
Public Interest/Gov.: 16%
Business: 8%

Starting Salary Range Avg.ish: $45-55kish
Debt: $65k-ish (as you noted before, you have a $5k scholarship and will have minimal living costs)

As far as regional placement, FSU will help you out the most in Tallahassee, Florida cities on the Gulf Coast, and to some extent in some of southern states (GA, AL). FIU will help you out most (and really only) in Miami-Dade. As the employment and salary stats are extremely similar, the debt load is half, and you had mentioned you really are looking to work in Miami, FIU really seems like the go to school between the two. If you, on the other hand, really disliked FIU's environment and are looking to work in the state capital, and don't mind the extra $60k worth of debt, I would then lean more towards FSU.

Again, ranking is a good general guide, but not enough to base your decision on.

Also, did you get an extension on FIU's deadline? I think their's was on April 1. If you didn't, then your decision may be an easy one at this point. :)

Good luck!

 on: April 08, 2014, 01:21:50 PM 
Started by LSAT Blog - Last post by LSAT Blog
From Excess of Democracy:

Of course, it's unclear whether majoring in a particular subject leads one to score better on the LSAT, or whether those who are already likely to do well on the LSAT choose certain majors. Perhaps a combination of the two.

 on: April 08, 2014, 01:20:37 PM 
Started by Dgren - Last post by LSAT Blog
I've also posted free video explanations for many LSAT Logic Games. They're available here:

 on: April 08, 2014, 10:20:57 AM 
Started by functionial drunk - Last post by functionial drunk
So guys sorry for doing a total 180 degree turn but this application process has been confusing and full of ups and downs. I visited FSU law this past weekend for admitted students day and the campus is much larger and well equpped than FIU Law's campus. The faculty also seems to be slightly more qualified, with many teachers coming from the nation's top legal institutions. Although FIU's dean comes from Harvard and has many connections, FSU's dean comes from Texas and seems to have just as many hookups within the state of Florida. The student body also was very receptive with everyone willing to answer any questions I had about the law school and its opportunities. I am aware that you all preach that rankings do not matter but it seems like FSU has a better reputation throughout the state and is more regionally recognized. FIU on the other hand is a great institution, but it is only really recognized in South Florida. Bottom line is when I graduate I feel like FSU can give me job opportunities all over the state and maybe in another southeastern state such as Georgia whereas if I go to FIU I will be forced to stay within the confines of South Florida. The decision is not final yet because I still need to weigh out the financials but for now I am leaning towards another three years in Tallahassee.

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