Law School Discussion

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Last post by loki13 on July 05, 2016, 09:15:30 AM »
I think we need to break this out into what the real issues are. And, no, anecdotal evidence (I once heard some attorneys from low ranked schools arguing) doesn't cut it. I once knew an attorney with a JD from Harvard who was dumb as a box of rocks, but that doesn't mean that most attorneys from Harvard are.

Law schools are sorting mechanisms. The first of many, but a very important one. The T14 gets better "raw ingredients" than the T4. Put another way, the very last bubble applicant accepted at Yale would be a full ride scholarship, top recruit at any T4 school. To analogize it to football- you can have great players at a D3 school, but every player at Alabama is going to be pretty, pretty good, because they get the best high school students.

But what does that mean? That means that early in your career, when you have no client, no real work product, and credentials matter, the credentials of your law school matter a great deal. And the simple fact that you were good enough to get into a T14 school means that you are in the running for a BigLaw job, or a clerkship, or whatever it is you want. Whereas if you go to a different school, you need to prove more- law review, moot court, good grades, and so on. And the farther down the food chain you do, the more you need to do in school to show that your personal credentials > school's.

Now, once you've been in practice for a while, this fades. Because you have other things to be judged on - your book of business, your work product. But some things will continue to live on- the network of successful alums, or for some schools, the local, state, or regional influence. Some things may even be surprising- for example, if you want to go into state politics, you are likely better off attending State Law U. than Harvard. And cost is a factor, and, as I've stated before, while the difference between T14 and T4 may be noticeable, the difference between say, #30 and #70 not so much.

Politics and Law-Related News / Re: POTUS
« Last post by Tommy Westphall on July 03, 2016, 09:21:28 AM »
write in votes, that are not from a pre approved list of write ins, don't count (even if a majority)
they count only as "present" votes..........I know they don't teach this at law school, but google it.

Sanders hasn't suspended his campaign dumbass--no write in vote necessary yet---you dumbass...

Google it tokenboy!!!
Hey your own posts............
Politics and Law-Related News / Re: POTUS
« Last post by cinnamon synonym on July 03, 2016, 12:20:02 AM »
Let me get this straight......

Hillary Clinton on the Saturday of 4thjuly weekend had 3 hour interrogation at FBI headquarters.


I'm laughing so hard because she says she was pleased to help the FBI with their musical review? Pleased?


She had been looking forward to it and had been beefing up all week on "her story" that she would tell to them about how she didn't know people could hack into her email....she knowingly knows nothing about how any of it works....

This dum dum should never be allowed in office again!

And she was
Politics and Law-Related News / Re: POTUS
« Last post by cinnamon synonym on July 02, 2016, 02:48:37 PM »
FBI just interrogated Liary Clinton---dum da dum dum!!!!!!

Oh to be a fly on the wall of that interrogation---- all the lying must be amazing!!!

Politics and Law-Related News / Re: POTUS
« Last post by cinnamon synonym on July 02, 2016, 02:44:56 PM »
write in votes, that are not from a pre approved list of write ins, don't count (even if a majority)
they count only as "present" votes..........I know they don't teach this at law school, but google it.

Sanders hasn't suspended his campaign dumbass--no write in vote necessary yet---you dumbass...

Google it tokenboy!!!
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Process Of Service
« Last post by Tommy Westphall on July 02, 2016, 12:21:18 PM »
Good point on the why not to do it. As to the "if" I agree there too, just was hoping someone here had real life experience with it was all.

But thanks as always, you always give good advise. Kudos.
And for those who get full ride offers and the like.........yeah you'll 99.999% not fail out, have a decent GPA, and probably pass the bar the first time.......but you'll still have lesser quality clinics, the stigma of people THINKING of you in the same lump as the people they've met first hand of lower quality that were your classmates, plus use some real life past experience memories of yours here:

When you hang out with people SMARTER than you, you tend to become smarter by trying to compete with them, and heck even just listening to the intelligent things they say (you have memories of this, we all do, think back on it)

Now think back on hanging out with people LESS smart than you. The opposite takes effect. Not only do you start to slack off (even in unconscious about it while you do it until you look back later and realize it) but you also accidentally absorb the stupid things they say, ESPECIALLY when they get CONSENSUS on it (everyone in the room agrees a stupid thing is right and billions of years of evolution have taught your social animal brain that that must mean its true, especially if the 3L's tend to say it while you are a 1L, or heaven help you if the Prof who couldn't find work anywhere BUT the lower tier school agrees with said stupid and WRONG thought) me. We all have memories in our lives of this stuff too. Think back on it.

Now ask yourself............does that have value? Yes or No?

Example: I recall as a legal intern hearing guys who WERE FULL LAWYERS FROM LOWER RANKED SCHOOLS who were there argue loudly with eachother about whether its illegal or not to have someone else's prescription drugs on you (and use them) since they were purchases legally at one point.....clearly the one getting violent in support of the idea was a junkie, but that's another get the idea. (for a short while he had me CONVINCED he MUST be right after his "I passed the bar, did you" speech........but the retard was wrong of course and likely is dead or in prison by now-we can all hope at least)
I'm not denying that clients tend not to care as much, that's a separate issue. The EMPLOYER does.
The fact is we are FAR PAST saturation point in the legal community, so if you have 100 people applying for a single opening you have to weed them out somehow. The somehow tends to, in large part, be which school they attended.

Plus there is the incidental factors associated with the schools beyond just the schools themselves.
Such as the attrition rate (never graduates) bar fail rates (never becomes a lawyer or takes so many attempts to pass that it looks horrible to employers), and the truth is MOST people who go to lower ranked schools have horrible GPA's (which employers do look at, at least for the first job which is the catalyst which in turn decides the domino effect of the rest of your career) as well as what internships/clinics you did in school (the good ones that employers want tend to have a way of weeding out non top tier school students which in turn gives them that edge later too) and heck even undergrad GPA I've seen used (most who go to lower ranked schools do so due to lower GPA/lsat score in undergrad)
They also tend to want writing samples (which for whatever reason higher ranked schools students have better ones of, in a fashion similar to the higher GPA) and other stuff too.........its equate to "disproportionate impact" and "diet racism" that you hear people complain out, but with the unprotected class of being a grad from a lower tiered school.

It is what it is

But yeah, do everything right and get lucky for 30 years and then clients don't care, I agree on that part of it (but that doesn't change anything else I wrote)
People, who are looking for an attorney will presume T14 lawyers are better. Employers know this. So to ensure that people come to their firm over anyone else, they higher the highest T14ers they can. They probably know, the quality of their education is little better than tier four. But they don't care about that. They care about what will get clients in the door.

That's the case at larger firms. They have more prestige-conscious clients, and they want to be able to say "My lawyer went to Harvard." Although even at big firms that not always the case.

The vast majority of the time, however, your client has no idea where you went to law school nor do they care. The fact that you have a law degree means that you possess some mystical knowledge that they don't. Most clients have heard of Harvard, Yale, etc, but have no idea what the difference is between Harvard and Loyola.

Quick example: the other day I contacted a lawyer (Ivy grad) for a recommendation for a good local attorney to handle a particular type of case. He referred me to a guy who graduated from a non-ABA school. Clearly, the Ivy League guy didn't care about pedigree because he knew the guy was a good lawyer. 
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Process Of Service
« Last post by Maintain FL 350 on July 02, 2016, 08:41:12 AM »
Just check your state rules, should be easy.

I've never heard of an attorney serving their own papers, though. I went to small claims court once, and even then I had to have a third party serve. Seems like there are way too many potential problems with an attorney serving. I mean, the last thing on the world you want is some sort of confrontation between you and the defendant.
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