Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion

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 on: July 17, 2014, 07:03:36 PM 
Started by ShonMI - Last post by ShonMI
Two years later, I'd say it's close to 100%.

It is  not very common for any job industry to have close to a 100% employment rate. I just have a hard time believing it is that good in a highly saturated field in the midst of a huge recession. Wow, I'd say that is pretty impressive if it is actually true....but what kind of employment is it? If a lot of those are unpaid internships, then no, I don't consider that real employment - no matter how great someone thinks their chances are of someday being hired permanent. Employment = paycheck.  Unpaid internships are a huge problem today, not just in law, but in other careers.

 on: July 16, 2014, 11:28:22 AM 
Started by CA Law Dean - Last post by NewlyMinted
I still don't like those odds and the state only aspect of it (even if residential) BUT THAT BEING SAID being able to transfer to Masters so you don't walk away with nothing if you part way into it you aren't doing good or just have the "I don't really want to be a lawyer" moment.

IMHO that should be an ABA requirement to offer that. 100% respect in that regard. If it were an ABA school and I was a an aspiring 1L that would probably win me over.

 on: July 16, 2014, 10:50:12 AM 
Started by CA Law Dean - Last post by Citylaw
That is an honest and fair assessment excellent post CA Law Dean.

 on: July 16, 2014, 10:04:37 AM 
Started by CA Law Dean - Last post by CA Law Dean
I can't speak to the online law schools, but MCL, who started this thread, and is a residential program, has had the following policies. There is no required curve. Students must maintain a minimum cumulative GPA of 70.0 (CGPA) or better to remain academically eligible to remain in the JD program. Students on academic probation must bring their CGPA up to 70 or higher within one year. Students who fail to do so may elect to transfer to the Master of Legal Studies Program and receive their Masters upon completion of 36 units. Students on academic probation are assigned individual tutors and provided supplemental resources, academic counseling, and strict monitoring during their probationary term. Students on academic probation who scored lower than 65 in a bar-tested course are required to repeat the course (but no additional tuition is charged). The higher grade is counted towards the CGPA.

The result has been the following (on average). Out of 35 1Ls, 6 will fail to meet the 70 CGPA. 2 of these will be substantially below (65 or below) and will repeat first year with tutoring (no additional tuition charged), 2 will repeat one class with tutoring, resulting in a reduced 2L class load while they repat the 1L course, and 2 will opt to go the route of the MLS degree. We rarely have anyone completely quit at the end of 1L.

We do have other, non-academic attrition for work, finance, health, relocation, etc. over the four-year, part-time program. We anticipate that, on average, out of the original 35 1Ls - 25-27 will complete their JD, 3-5 will complete the Masters, and 5 will not complete either program.

For the 25-27 JD graduates, 3-5 will never take the bar exam (JD degree for other business reasons) and the remaining graduates will achieve an appx. 65% cumulative bar pass rate on the California Bar Exam. (With some recent classes achieving as high as 70%). Our statistics (that are openly shared with the students), indicate a direct correlation between law school graduating GPA and bar pass results. Although a 70 CGPA is required to graduate with the JD, our statistics indicate that a 73 or above is necessary to have a reasonable chance of passing the CA bar exam. Therefore, those graduating with GPAs below 73 have full knowledge that they have a very low prospect for ever passing the bar, but they have been counseled to this effect at the end of every Spring Semester and provided the opportunity to transfer to the MLS degree program. Obviously, with an average 30-35% fail rate on the bar exam, there remain students who choose to complete the degree program (for many reasons), even though they have been provided information about the relationship between their academic GPA and bar passage.

As a small "opportunity law school" the above model fits our community and is perceived as being very successful. It is difficult to compare our program to the typical ABA model, but we believe (for the past 43 years) that it has many positive aspects as a result.

 on: July 15, 2014, 07:49:32 PM 
Started by functionial drunk - Last post by Citylaw
Good to hear you visited both campuses and one gave you the right gut feeling that is one of the most important things to consider when choosing a school.

I would probably just forget about Michigan at this time and focus on getting ready for FSU and as for whoever is telling you FSU or FU is better for Biglaw they are full of it, the reality is whether you make it into Biglaw has a lot more to do with your connections, personality, etc.

Congrats on your decision and good luck in your pursuit of a J.D.

 on: July 15, 2014, 07:16:59 PM 
Started by functionial drunk - Last post by NewlyMinted

"A little to late to do the right thing now"

 on: July 15, 2014, 04:59:17 PM 
Started by functionial drunk - Last post by Maintain FL 350
Congratulations, FSU has a good regional reputation and the debt won't be too bad (comparatively).

I used to be on the other camp on this, but you know what, debt sucks.
If you can get into any Michigan school other than cooley odds are you have a 160 lsat. That is a free ride at cooley. Take the zero debt.
Employers may laugh at the degree, but you will have a spotless creditscore.

Seriously. I really don't think the average 0L has any idea what it means to be $150,000 in debt, or how low the chances are of scoring a high paying Biglaw job as a new graduate.

The fact is, the vast majority of even T1 law grads will not be making all that much more than their T3-T4 counterparts to start. I know tons of T1 grads who work at small firms and govt offices and are saddled with huge debt. Several of them have told me that they wish they had just taken a full ride another school. 

 on: July 15, 2014, 04:47:30 PM 
Started by functionial drunk - Last post by NewlyMinted
I used to be on the other camp on this, but you know what, debt sucks.
If you can get into any Michigan school other than cooley odds are you have a 160 lsat. That is a free ride at cooley. Take the zero debt.
Employers may laugh at the degree, but you will have a spotless creditscore.

 on: July 15, 2014, 02:59:13 PM 
Started by functionial drunk - Last post by functionial drunk
Again many thanks to all the people on this forum your advice has been invaluable. To bring a little closure to this thread I am going to share with you all some information. I have ultimately decided to matriculate at FSU law. After much bickering and squabbling they finally caved into my demands and gave me $7k to go towards my tuition. This does help the burden of my student loans tremendously and makes me not feel so bad for turning down FIUs $10k. I do still have to pay for all of my living expenses in Tallahassee but that is insignificant when compared to any decently large city in the US. This will be manageable because I have saved a couple thousand during this off year working. After visiting FSUs campus I felt like it was a very collaborative atmosphere compared to that of FIUs. Note I am not putting down FIU it is a great school in its own regards I just felt more in tune with the spirit of FSU law. As for all the haters from UF saying that FSU doesn't have any big law connects well just looking at the short list of big law firms in the capital: Greenburg Traurig, Akerman Senterfitt, Gray Robinson, etc. I think there can be valuable connections made in Tallahassee in both the private sector and the public sector. Now I don't even plan to work in one of these sprawling mega firms anymore after learning about the quality of life for your average junior associate. What I plan to do is spend the rest of my adult life working within the legal system and at some point hopefully I can retain enough clients to open up my own firm and finally be able to call myself boss.

I am still on the UMich waitlist but I have never been one to torture myself over something that might not materialize. If they do accept me within the coming weeks I would have some reconsidering to do. School starts on august 25 and if they reach out to me after then I hope they have a good replacement lined up. Looks like it's Tallahassee for me in August!

PS sorry for the crappy grammar writing these rants on an iPhone is not proofreading friendly

 on: July 14, 2014, 07:35:06 PM 
Started by NewlyMinted - Last post by NewlyMinted
Where who says? In the text of the law?

To which MBE question are you referring?

I ??? ??? ???

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