Law School Discussion

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My question is how likely would it be to be re-admitted in a situation like this, if I had a external circumstances which contributed to my failure the first time around, how should I present these on the application, and would I be eligible to apply to other law schools as well?

There are a few things to address here.

Right off the bat, you're going to have a hard time getting admitted. Getting suspended for cheating puts a big red flag on your application.

The likelihood of your being readmitted to any school is based on many variables. How you did gradewise while you were in law school, the seriousness of the academic dishonesty, and what you've done since then. Can you somehow demonstrate that your circumstances have changed?

In my opinion, unless you can clearly identify the problems that lead you to plagiarize AND convincingly demonstrate that those problems are behind you, it's going to be tough. I mean, why admit someone who you think will repeat the same behaviors?

You mentioned "external circumstances". I'm telling you right now that nobody, not the law schools and definitely not the bar association, want to hear lame excuses for cheating. It will not help you. You need to own up to your actions if you want a chance at being a lawyer.

You also need to check with your state's bar regarding the Character and Fitness application. Getting suspended for cheating is a big deal, and even if you are readmitted to law school you will definitely have to answer a lot of questions from the bar. This will hold up your admission, at the least. Make sure that you can actually get admitted to the bar before spending the money on a JD. If and when you apply to law schools and the bar it is imperative that you be absolutely 100% honest. You must disclose your cheating with total candor.
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Current Law Students / formally reapplying after withdrawing from law school?
« Last post by 0705777877 on January 29, 2016, 06:48:40 AM »
Hi:

I was attending a T14 law school and had mediocre grades and had withdrawn from the program in my 2L year after being suspended a semester for plagiarism. Now several years later I wanted to return and emailed the school regarding my situation. I was told that I must apply formally for readmission and that I may receive standing for credits previously earned if admitted. My LSAT has expired so I'll have to do everything all over again.

My question is how likely would it be to be re-admitted in a situation like this, if I had a external circumstances which contributed to my failure the first time around, how should I present these on the application, and would I be eligible to apply to other law schools as well?

Thanks!
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Job Search / Re: Re: Testing Period
« Last post by sharka on January 29, 2016, 01:24:30 AM »
I guess? I know a probationary period is just where you're new and they want to judge you and you better not be an idiot or hard to get along and if you learn what you're trained and are willing to improve, you'll be okay. But they called it a testing period so wasn't sure if that's a different thing with higher standards?

And as a law student. Like serving as a law clerk/intern type position. They will train me right? Or are they expecting me to be able to draft up things like I know what I'm doing already? My classes sure have not prepared me to draft anything. Other than our basic memo and moot court brief.

They didn't ask me much about anything like that during the interview. It was a fairly short interview and just some basic questions. They didn't even ask me about my course work or brief or writing sample. But they did mention they're working on typical litigation type stuff as well as transactional contract stuff like contracts, settlements, motions, discovery, etc.

So what happens if the experience ends up like the one your wife had? Should I leave then? As a practicing attorney, would you say I should stay a minimum amount of time before I can consider leaving if it's a bad experience? And what if a better opportunity comes by? Is it rude or inappropriate to leave before a certain time? And how do you leave without burning that bridge? The Bay Area legal community feels super tight knit so I wouldn't want to acquire any bad reputation before I'm even done with law school.

Are there books or things I can get to better prepare myself for performing these more basic lawyer tasks?

Any advice for starting a law clerk job at a firm is appreciated! :) Just a smidge nervous to be starting a new position with a local SF firm.
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Any violation of this rule will result in a permanent ban.
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Any violation of this rule will result in a permanent ban. Please review the following memorandum from the LSAC:

Quote from: LSAC
The Law School Admission Council (LSAC) understands and sympathizes with the anxiety that the LSAT causes test takers and their strong desire to discuss with their peers the questions that they have just taken on the LSAT.  However, LSAC prohibits such discussion, including the so-called “postmortem” discussion of test questions immediately after a particular test administration, because it has the potential to affect the fairness of the LSAT and the law school admission process. Certain LSATs are non-disclosed and their questions may be used again at a later administration of the test.  And even in the case of disclosed tests there may be circumstances in which LSAC may need to administer a test form to some test takers somewhat later than to others.  Discussion of test questions in a public forum like a website before the test is disclosed, even though its usefulness is limited by the memory and ability of the participants, makes information about that test widely available to anyone who has access to the web and may unfairly advantage test takers who see the discussion before they take the test. Since the number of admission slots in law schools is limited, such an unfair advantage could penalize those who took the test at an earlier time, including those very people engaging in the post-mortem discussion.

In an effort to ensure the fairness of the LSAT, LSAC requires test takers to sign a statement on the LSAT answer sheet saying that they agree not to “copy or retain examination questions or to transmit them to or discuss them with any other person in any form.” In addition, test takers sign a certification statement on the LSAT admission ticket agreeing that they have “no right to reproduce, recreate, distribute, or sell any of that test.”  In this statement they also certify that they “understand that the Law School Admission Council reserves the right to pursue all suitable courses of action to prevent fraudulent or unauthorized use of its property and to prevent the compromise of secure test material.”  Thus, test takers enter into a contract with LSAC that they will not discuss with others the test questions they have taken. In addition, LSAC’s “Instructions for the Day of the Test” state: “Legal action may be taken against anyone who removes test materials and/or reproduces test material in any way, or shares LSAT test content prior to LSAC’s disclosure of that test.”

If inappropriate public discussion of test questions on public websites reaches a point at which it threatens to undermine the fairness of the LSAT, injuring LSAT test takers, or at which it damages the value of non-disclosed LSAT test forms, LSAC would be compelled to take appropriate action to prevent such injury or damage.  These actions could include reporting violators to the LSAC Misconduct Committee.  Admission to the bar and the practice of law impose high standards of conduct and LSAC member law schools take very seriously the integrity of the candidates they admit.

LSAC does not seek to take special steps to enforce its prohibition on the inappropriate discussion of test questions.  We would prefer that test takers recognize that compromising test questions before they have been disclosed by LSAC runs counter to the general interest of test takers in a fair testing process, as well as to the personal interest of those discussing the questions, and voluntarily refrain from discussing LSAT questions until after they have been disclosed to test takers by LSAC.  However, we believe that we have an obligation to both our law school members and our test takers to protect the fairness and integrity of the LSAT and the law school admission process, and we take that obligation very seriously.
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Politics and Law-Related News / Re: POTUS
« Last post by Groundhog on January 28, 2016, 09:00:02 PM »
So, did anyone watch the Republican debate?
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Job Search / Re: Re: Testing Period
« Last post by Maintain FL 350 on January 28, 2016, 05:28:39 PM »
I assume you're talking about a probationary period?

It's simply a specified period during which the firm is trying you out, seeing if you're a good fit. During the probationary period they can let you go if it's not going to work. 

Also, do you mean as a lawyer, or as a law student? The expectations will vary accordingly.

As far as expectations, they should be pretty clear on what experience you have and what your capabilities are based on the interview and resume. They'll probably ask you stuff like "Ever written an MSJ?", so there should be no surprises.

The level of guidance and help you'll get varies (unfortunately). I had a great experience as an intern during law school. The attorneys were awesome about really teaching me something. I got to write MSJs, make appearances, lots of good stuff. My wife had the opposite experience. She was stuck in an office and told to do stuff with almost no guidance, "Go figure it out." It just depends.

By the time you are a lawyer (even a brand new one working at your first job) you will be expected to perform most basic legal tasks with little or no supervision. When something is more complicated, you will seek advice from other lawyers. Again, the level of help you'll get varies widely. Some offices are great and have good training, others have a sink or swim attitude.

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General Off-Topic Board / Re: Who would you hire?
« Last post by Citylaw on January 28, 2016, 05:22:13 PM »
I don't think they even give grads at some of the T14 schools.

For examplate at Boalt where a lot of my friends went you just get a Pass. If you really nail a class you can get a H (Honors) or HH (High Honors). The top 40% of the class gets a H and the top 10% gets an HH. The rest get a pass, unless they really f'up, but none of my friends said they know anyone that didn't get a pass. https://www.law.berkeley.edu/careers/for-employers/grading-policy/

It is not quite the same as other schools with actual grades. I know at my school we got A's, B's and C's and even D's. My Boalt friends were surprised by this and I was surprised by their system, but it just shows how much it varies.

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General Off-Topic Board / Re: Who would you hire?
« Last post by Maintain FL 350 on January 28, 2016, 05:15:08 PM »
But here's the salient difference- you're assuming that the average HLS grad isn't a hard worker. That's the opposite type of bias.

No, no. Quite the opposite. I have no doubt that the average HLS student is a very hard worker. I don't think anyone can earn the numeric qualifications to get into HLS without being a hard worker.

And I definitely understand your point regarding competition. A Harvard student is going to be graded in comparison to other very high caliber students.

But, I do wonder. If you are T14 student who doesn't care about law review, or gunning for some prestigious clerkship, is it really more difficult to get Cs at HLS than at the University of Kansas? I don't know, maybe it is. Maybe the competition is so talented that even getting a C requires far more work and intellectual acumen.

I know someone who graduated from Harvard and now teaches law. I'll ask what he thinks.
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Job Search / Re: Testing Period
« Last post by sharka on January 28, 2016, 04:41:15 PM »
Hi all,

What's a testing period at a law firm? What should I expect to be able to perform and what should I expect to be trained on? Like do I need to be able to draft motions and stuff already before starting? Or will they teach me everything they expect me to do? As you all know, the law school courses are all substantive knowledge and very little practical drafting...

Thanks for your help!

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