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After reading the article and the posts it makes me concerned about my future.

yardy_spice, thius isn't directed towards you, its just your quote that got me thinking about all this again; so please don't take it personally. 

I got laid off about six weeks ago, so my wife and I switched roles for the summer - she's working full time and I'm staying at home with the kids.  So I have a new perspective on my life and I'd like to once again add to this conversation. 

Kids are a sacrifice.  If you're not willing to sacrifice your career for like 10 years, maybe you should rethink either parenthood or your career.  This is just my 2 cents and I know there are a lot of people who think they can do it all, and there are probably some that actually can.   

Personally, I think too few people ACTUALLY CONSIDER the possibility of living on one (or one and a half) incomes for a few years, while your kids are young.  I know this sounds preachy and it probably is, but there is no job that is more important (or more challenging) than raising kids.  My 3 year old pooped on my bedroom floor yesterday.  You know what they say, sh*t happens.  But what would happen if she was potty training in daycare?  Would those people be as patient with her?  I'm grateful that our family has the opportunity to have a stay at home parent for our young kids.  We make huge sacrifices to do so. 

I'm kind of rambling here, but my what I'm trying to say is that if you're a parent, that is your #1 responsibility; your #1 concern.  If you or your spouse has to put a career on hold for a few years, well just be grateful you have the opportunity to raise healthy well-adjusted kids.  But if how kids will affect you career is a major concern, then personally, I think you have the wrong perspective. 


we're moving from 4000 sf to 400

we're having an auction in july

Wow.  I'm all for sacrificing for this and living meagerly for a few years, but I couldn't do that.  I'm only looking at about 2000 sf now, but even if I didn't have children, I'm not sure I'd be willing to live in anything that small ever again.  Good for you though, and good luck.

Is sermo est insolitus

And I believe that is exactly what you'd say about me if I tried to say anying in latin, beyond "tabula rasa."

tabula raza be damned...  ::)

Spelling be damned...   ;)

Edited.  Been a few years since I read Locke... even longer since I took a Latin class.

woo hoo; a fellow Latin language student :) thinking of declensions is giving me a headache...

I took 3 years of Latin in highschool, then couldn't test out of it for college so I had to take another two semesters (or was it 4?) as an undergrad.  And sadly, I've retained very little.  I did name my fantasy baseball team Tabula Rasa this year, so I guess I remembered something. 

Suffolk (FT days)

You're one of my favorites, Likewise. Everything that you say makes sense and is decent.

Yeah, I hate to join in on a suckfest, but I agree.

Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students / Re: Giving notice
« on: April 26, 2006, 10:40:19 PM »
Aha, so am I snarky or astute? 

Maki, I didn't consider a work from home situation.  Obviously a face-to-face discussion isn't necessary in that situation.  But I would think thatg a follow-up snail-mail letter would still be appropriate. 

Saxby, I don't care what you think about "some people." 

Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students / Re: Giving notice
« on: April 24, 2006, 11:14:47 AM »

now, to do it over the phone or email....  :-\

Are you kidding?  You give your notice in person and you also provide a letter.  Neither phone nor email is appropriate. 

To the OP, I guess you need to determine how long they'll let you work there after you give your notice.  If they'll let you stick around as long as you want, then you should give your notice ASAP, especially in light of the project situation you mentioned.  But I've had jobs where you give your notice and they show you the door.  If it is one of those situations, then you really have no choice but to wait until 2 weeks out.  However, I can't help but think that it is entirely disingenuous to accept that promotion you speak of when you plan on skipping out the door in 2-3 months.  I don't know what you should do, but it sounds like a delicate situation that warrants careful consideration.

Norcal, I try not to make judgements on people (usually unsuccessfuuly) and I try not to verbalize judgements (I'm usually successful with this one) but you've spent so much time stating and defending your position that I think you're fair game.  And this has nothing to do with kids. 

Your narrow view of what is an acceptable life is sad.  I hope and expect you'll outgrow this. 


Modest house (and I'm really saying modest, not too small, but nothing spectacular): $1.5m, @ 6%: $9000/mo
Taxes: $16000 yr
Insurance: $2000 yr
Maintenance + Utilities: $10000
Other than kid expenses: $20k/yr (I can live off that, includes food, a run-of-the-mill Honda, etc)
Savings: $10k/yr
total: $166k

AMT kicks in, assume 35% overall federal + state tax rate.

income necessary before even CONSIDERING a kid: $255k


Kid expenses: $6k/yr (summer camps, food, etc, etc)
Kid education: $25k/yr (K-12, $50k/yr college)

Not tax deductible, so, another $31/.65 = ~ $47k -- even more at college, but less early on, so evens out

You forgot the final line:

Having kids: PRICELESS

I have to add that if you honestly believe you need an over/under income level to have kids, you're a fool.  There's nothing wrong with deciding not to have kids; it is understandable to NOT want to give 20 years of your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars away.  But that is a decision you have to find within yourself, NOT WITHIN YOUR WALLET.

The best advice I ever heard on this topic (which I ignored, BTW) was simple: If you wait until you can afford children, you'll never have kids.  To me, it seems like you can never afford kids, yet you can always afford them.  Kind of a paradox, but its true.     

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