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Messages - ilsox7

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21
Law School Applications / Re: Is law school really that much work?
« on: December 14, 2007, 10:21:34 AM »
It really depends on the person.  I have friends who spend hours upon hours actually studying each week.  I have other friends who claim they spend hours studying, but really don't.  I don't spend more than a few hours a week throughout the semester.  Then during finals I spend hours on end to get ready.  It works for me.

22
I studied in a bar the entirety of 1L.  No joke.

23
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: computers in class
« on: December 12, 2007, 12:33:25 AM »
100 page outlines will get you nowhere, unless you have a takehome test and a huge amount of time to write it.

Seriously.  I think my longest law school outline has been 15 pages.  Then again, I don't really outline anymore.

24
I am talking about out of the blue, no relation, begging for help type stuff.

That's why I suggested going after the undergrad or law school connection.  Something along the lines of:

Mr. John Doe:

I will be entering Northwestern University Law School next fall.  While researching different areas of law and law firms I have an interest in, I came across your name and saw that you graduated from NU in 1994.  One area of law that I have an interest in is Securities.  I see that your practice is focused on that area and I also read the recent paper you published.  Would you have some time to chat or get together for lunch to discuss Northwestern, Securities law, or law in general?  I'd love to pick your brain for a few minutes.  Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you.

Bill Simmons
Something like that could work, Bill. ;)

Yea.  If I were desperate for legal contacts, I'd send out about 30 of those and see what sticks.  I'd be shocked/saddened/surprised if you didn't get at least 5 folks who, at minimum, e-mailed back some encouraging words.  People like to talk about themselves.  Presented the right way, numerous people would love to spend an hour talking about their career and life.

25
I am talking about out of the blue, no relation, begging for help type stuff.

That's why I suggested going after the undergrad or law school connection.  Something along the lines of:

Mr. John Doe:

I will be entering Northwestern University Law School next fall.  While researching different areas of law and law firms I have an interest in, I came across your name and saw that you graduated from NU in 1994.  One area of law that I have an interest in is Securities.  I see that your practice is focused on that area and I also read the recent paper you published.  Would you have some time to chat or get together for lunch to discuss Northwestern, Securities law, or law in general?  I'd love to pick your brain for a few minutes.  Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you.

Bill Simmons

26
You have worked 100+ hours a week and still made the time to humor any random unsolicited call that came your way? Really?

You are a better man than I.

I agree with you about trying to be helpful, and the impact of Karma, but there are realistic limits. When you don't have time for yourself and your family, it's kinda hard to donate a significant amount of time to strangers.


I've not done the 100 hour week thing consistently.  But I have worked 80 hour weeks on a regular basis.  I'm not saying these guys need to drop everything to talk with a potential law student.  But time can be made here and there when trial is not coming up or a deal is not about to close.  Your comment about how they would probably pass around the e-mail laughing at it is what got me.  And the sad thing is, it would not surprise me one bit if that was done.  Many of the big firm lawyers I have met would barely give me the time of day during an interview, let alone an unsolicited email or phone call.  Many of them really are the slime of the earth.  Luckily, there are some good ones out there.
Honestly, the passing around of the e-mail was an exaggeration. That kind of thing would only happen if the email was particularly rude or amusing. But it's doubtful that you would get a response.

Yea.  It's too bad, really.  If I get an e-mail written properly from someone who went to my undergrad or something, I certainly take the few minutes to type out a response.  These big firm attorneys remind me of the stereotype of an attorney going out on a date that goes poorly, then bitching about how they could have billed $2,000 instead of going on the date.  Sometimes, folks need to realize that giving back some will go a long way.  Because ya never know what that new relationship with a soon-to-be attorney could bring in the future to that attorney.  Who knows, maybe that soon-to-be law student is at a firm the attorney wants to move to many years down the line?  Hopefully the folks around here will be more gracious with their time when called upon.

27
You have worked 100+ hours a week and still made the time to humor any random unsolicited call that came your way? Really?

You are a better man than I.

I agree with you about trying to be helpful, and the impact of Karma, but there are realistic limits. When you don't have time for yourself and your family, it's kinda hard to donate a significant amount of time to strangers.


I've not done the 100 hour week thing consistently.  But I have worked 80 hour weeks on a regular basis.  I'm not saying these guys need to drop everything to talk with a potential law student.  But time can be made here and there when trial is not coming up or a deal is not about to close.  Your comment about how they would probably pass around the e-mail laughing at it is what got me.  And the sad thing is, it would not surprise me one bit if that was done.  Many of the big firm lawyers I have met would barely give me the time of day during an interview, let alone an unsolicited email or phone call.  Many of them really are the slime of the earth.  Luckily, there are some good ones out there.

28
Don't be too quick to judge. These guys are people too, and you'd be surprised how you feel about these same issues when you are in their shoes.

Many of them have gladly helped me in the past. One of them sat down with me, and drilled logic games for 6 hours straight. Several of them have taken the time to help me edit my PS.

It's not that they don't want to help people. It's that they have learned the hard way that most people out there are out to use them.

I'm not saying it's impossible to network with these people, but there are more effective ways of meeting them than sending cold, unsolicited e-mails.


I've been in their shoes before and I'd always take the time to talk with people either over e-mail, phone, or lunch.  I doubt these guys are getting 5 e-mails a week from someone legitimately just wanting to pick their brain a bit.  And there are most definitely better ways to network.  But the OP said he had zero connections to the legal market.  Cold calling and e-mailing is one way to start. 

29
If any attorney I know got an unsolicited email from someone who they had no prior contact with, I think they would pass it around the office so that we could all have a nice laugh.

They would do that to a soon-to-be-law school student looking for a little bit of help or guidance?

I don't know what kind of lawyers you know, but the ones I know wouldn't do that.

I'll try to remember this thread a few years down the line if someone emails me and I want to know how to be an a$$hole.
It's not that they are assholes. It's that they work at biglawlz, and they get like 50 unsolicited emails a day from various recruiters, marketers, etc., and it gets very annoying to always feel like everyone always wants something from you.

Once you are introduced to these people, they are like the nicest doods in the world. It's just that unsolicited things don't work out as well.

This is one of the reasons I am convinced that Big Law firms are among the most unprofessional organizations out there.  It's sad.  Most decent people that I know (business and law) would certainly give 30 - 60 minutes of their time to speak with someone just getting started in the profession, if that person presents the opportunity to them the right way.

Karma is a female dog.  People should always remember that.  Every attorney out there will one day rely on other people for a job.  If you do not give back to others, it'll get you.

30
what school 1lsox?

Loyola Chicago.  To the new dean's credit (well new as of 2 years ago), he seems to get it.  You can't come right in and fire everyone.  But he took a year to evaluate things and his first major action seemed to be in the place students care most about: career services.  Hopefully for his sake and the school's sake, he continues relieving people of their jobs.

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