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Messages - btideroll

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Here is some advice---don't take much of what the statwhores and schoolrank-obsessed naysayers tell you on this board.

read my post over in "studying for the LSAT" portion on this board.

then do some soul searching. Taking the LSAT again is NOT worth it unless you are going to develop a new strategic system and you know for a fact you are learning more and WILL do better. Besides the OCT lsat, while the ideal time, may not give you enough time to prepare. December may be better--however it will push your application completion date back.

do not be ashamed of a low LSAT score, remember half the country doesn't even make that.

Lastly apply to every school in your area that has scores similar to yours or slightly higher. Write a good application essay and you will get in somewhere. Also realize you can transfer law schools after your first year provided you do well and think of it like this---if you do get in a school that isn't regarded as "prestigious" or whatever the folks on these boards call it, you have an even better chance to do better than your classmates and rank higher. What I mean is if you are a smart guy and you know you are, you have a good GPA, you stand a better chance smoking the people in your law school and having a great shot at transferring somewhere "higher-up".

I'd go for getting in somewhere now. visit the schools and evaluate them on what they truely are and put the hype aside.

thanks for the advice and no im not a urm... a few more questions though... what are my possibilities at Rutgers Camden, i was looking through some of the numbers and it seems i might have a shot there... i wanna take the lsats again in Oct but im extremely pessimistic about it... i took the june lsat with a whole kaplan course behind me, where i was scoring 153-156s on the practice tests, and then got hit blindsided with this score. I studied my ass off too. Im afraid if i take the lsat again, god forbid i do worse or the same, then it just solidifies my poor score and makes it that much more pungeant... if you know what i mean... so im confused. Ive been in contact with a friend of mine who is a law professor at SHU law and said he doesnt think i will have a problem getting into somewhere in there area with my gpa, but listening to this board it seems i may indeed have a problem...
so if shu and rutgers law is outta the question... what about rutgers camden? how about other schools such as pennstate, syracuse, new york law, fordham, widener, etc... i really had my heart set on sumtin in NJ or NY however...

what do u guys think about all this?

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Advice for you LSAT Studying Folks...
« on: July 10, 2005, 11:12:59 AM »
3) your actual LSAT score will be less than what you are making now on your prep tests....just a fact of life (nerves anyone?)

you should not make such extreme generalaztions. i took the june lsat, and i scored exactly what i was practicing. also, many people score even higher on the actual test

There will be exceptions but generally folks score least all my friends and everyone I talked to. It is great that you received the same score, and those that score higher its even better! The luck of the draw (IE. test difficulty) makes a difference as well as many other factors.

I didn't mean to discourage people it just seems to be the most dominant trend--probably mostly because people are prepping with easier tests.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: real LSAT's older than 10 actual
« on: July 10, 2005, 10:51:29 AM »
why on earth would you focus on tests YEARS old. You want to focus on the most recent tests (last 2-3 years) so you can see where they are headed with their games section.

There is a difference between those old logic games and the ones they employ now.

Studying for the LSAT / Advice for you LSAT Studying Folks...
« on: July 10, 2005, 10:48:45 AM »
Allow me to shed a little light on the subject having taken the LSAT twice. Having been in and played the system--below are my findings. I will explain what I did and did not do during my LSAT prep in an effort to guide your LSAT preparation.

Background on myself:
Finance Major @ small private school in TN. Cumulative UGPA 3.7, GPA in Major 3.9. Graduated May 2004.
Graduated top 10% in my college, top 2 in my class. Beta Gamma Sigma business honor society blah blah blah...

Things I wish I had done:
Minor'd in philosophy/english or something to advance/hone reading and reasoning skills. I truly believe it would have helped more on the LSAT. But then again major doesn't matter....but I know for a fact a few courses in LOGIC would have.


Things to avoid:
1) Kaplan
2) Princeton Review
3) Any other company that doesn't use real questions.

Things to focus on:
1) using real LSAT tests
2) timing yourself with these tests (taking FULL tests at a time...)
3) Buy the Logic Games Bible and any other "bible" that Powerscore offers. When I took the LSAT only the Logic Games Bible was developed.

Things to know:
1) you can use a silent timer during your test- powerscore has one...probably EBAY too.
2) unless you practice with real LSATS and LSAT questions you will be surprised when reading your test questions if you prepared using those LSAT 2004/2005/2006 books or "LSAT 180" books. Trust me..there is a difference in the real tests.
3) your actual LSAT score will be less than what you are making now on your prep tests....just a fact of life (nerves anyone?)
4) some tests can be easier than others during the same administration (IE. someone else sitting 2 feet from you may have a test that is easier in that they aren't totally mind warped by a killer "fake" section. You may get a hard section and it may "psych" you out etc...)
5) some tests seem to be easier than others during the different administrations (IE. the oct 2003 lsat was probably easier than the dec 2003 lsat.)
6) most people take the October LSAT (what does this mean? It means you are compared agaisnt a larger test pool when you take it then). I would focus on June if I could do it over again.
7) the LSAT is evolving. The wording of some questions as well as its general system are slowly changing and it may end up on the computer. All that to say that I noticed a difference between some logical reasoning wording on my oct 2003 lsat v. my dec 2003 lsat.

What I did to study:

Basically I was like everyone else and bought the Kaplan books it through, did the practice tests and problems in the book and was scoring decent. I would takle sections at a time, NOT TESTS at a time and I know that hurt me in the timing department.

I bought a few REAL LSATS from LSAC and worked those, again not timed--my biggest mistake. I guess one reason that I didn't time full tests is because I didn't want to know how bad I was doing/was going to do. I did time each section though.

I bought the powerscore logic games bible and worked through it. It is great because it gives you real games that LSAC put on their LSAT and gives you reference to real tests etc....

I then took the Power Score course...not the full length...just the single day program. I do not recommend those program unless you just like to sit in class and spend money. The instruction was decent but nothing spectacular that wasn't already in their Logic Games Bible. So in other words it was just a course to hold your hand and walk you through the bible.

I scored in the low 150's on both LSAT tests. Not because I didn't understand per say--but because I could not finish the sections in time and had to resort to guessing on the last questions of the sections. Checking my report pdf on LSAC after my test became available I saw that the questions I DID have time to do (early to mid of the section) I answered correctly for the most part--it was the last questions of the sections that owned me. I have a history of not finishing standardized tests (SAT, ACT both scored average but I kicked ass in college anyways)...So a warning to all of those out there that are stubborn (like me) and don't like to move on, your best bet is to guess and come back to it later if you have time. Don't get scared if you don't know a few questions, elminate what you can and make a good guess. Don't think about anything BUT THE QUESTION you are reading and don't let your mind wander and think about anything else. FOCUS is key along with speed.

If you are like me and get nervous on tests like these (the ones that determine your future) then I suggest heavy practice on real tests---forget all the kaplan and crap. Buy as many CURRENT REAL LSATS as you can and time yourself after working through the Powerscore Bible Series. The bible series explains all the strategies and reasoning that you need to know. The LSAT is more of a speed + accuracy test than it is "hard" content wise. The logic games can stump you but that is just the way it goes.

And in closing I'd like to recommend visiting your testing center BEFORE YOU REGISTER FOR IT. My first test center was Vanderbilt Law School---totally awesome. We had PLENTY of space and were at long tables that spanned across the whole room. Not those crappy flip down arm desks. My second test was at TN State. We were packed in like sardines, it was about 400 degrees. It got so bad that people were literally shedding their clothes. I had to strip down to my undershirt. I am left handed and was forced to sit crammed up against a wall. And the worst was we were in the typical no room pull arm desks typical to all huge auditorium class rooms. It was damn hard keeping the test book, answer sheet, timer, and all of that together. I ended up having to keep half my stuff in my LAP!! The overwhelming heat was miserable and it totally destroyed my focus--but enough excuses....

Goodluck to anyone out there who is preparing for the LSAT. You can PM me with any questions if you want to.

id shoot for suffolk.

nice facilities, great professors (glannon anyone?). just watching their video tour was pretty cool.

The only issue is the dense pop of law schools up north and you will be competing with a bunch of students from a bunch of other law schools.

shoot me a PM. I'm going to a smaller, emerging school in the south if you are interested.


Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Vanderbilt waitlist
« on: July 08, 2005, 07:41:13 PM »
Allow me to offer some insight from a 2004 reject of Vandy.

I am from nashville, went to highschool and college there. Vandy was my reach/dream school. My LSAT was no where near their marks (about 9-10 pts/questions shy). That combined with my app that was completed late (late feb) spelled doom for me despite my 3.7 cumulative undergrad and 3.9 in major (Finance).

Nashville is a great place. I haven't spent much time in Atlanta though. I have *2* friends who go to Vandy. One I graduated highschool with and who is entering her 3rd year this year. Another is my wife's friend. Neither made Law Review. In fact they made C's at first then half and half B's/A's second semester 1L. That being said--these people were smart as hell....I guess its a rough environment.

I ended up just waiting out a year and starting my MBA at Mississippi College in Jackson, MS where my wife is from. I ended up just applying to their joint JD/MBA program since I am already down here and bought a brand new house I'm starting 1L this fall. I have hopes of acing my first year and transferring to Vandy but I don't think that will happen.

Anyways enough rambling. I would lean towards Vandy over Emory simply because I'm more familiar with the area, and I love their law school---very nice. However, its all about where you want to practice and if there are firms you could see yourself working at who recruit at your firm. Since you said Southeast then I would wager EITHER Emory or Vanderbilt will land you a nice job in the south.

Best of Luck.

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