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Messages - shadowcreeper

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Hi Alpha,

I think a visit could definitely help. I interviewed there and work full time, so I dont really have time to go back to visit again. Why do you want to work in north Jersey. I grew up in north jersey, but I now live in south jersey (although I do work in northern nj still).

I think the masters does help, at least I told myself it would help me lol. And, I think that it did because my LSAT does suck but I got opportunities that people with higher numbers did not get, so who knows right. the entire thing is a crapshoot.

I loved Pace after I visited. It was small and community oriented. The faculty were nice. The students I talked to seemed really happy and had no real complaints. The school is in a pretty nice area in NY. About 25 minutes into the city, and about an hour 45 to 2 hours to the Jersey shore. I would think firms in NJ would hire from pace, but you will be in competition with Rutgers and Seton Hall grads.

Thanks for the kind words, glad my blog is entertaining! Good luck to you, hope you get into Pace!!! (is it one of your top choices)


I have been pursuing them pretty avidly. I sent in a letter of continued interest when I got the WL notification. Then in early June I sent another along with my completed masters dissertation type thing. I then called about 4 week ago, then again last week. My LSAT is lower than yours. So I dont know that I have a ton of hope, but we will see. :)

Good luck to you.

Wait List / Re: Waitlists
« on: July 05, 2005, 03:56:12 PM »
WL at 9 schools here.

I am also waitlisted at both schools. I heard that Hofstra was over enrolled and would probably not be using their WL much.

Pace has been using their WL, if you look at and search for Pace, there are a few people who have moved off of the list.

Good luck.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: University of Dayton "Hold" Letter
« on: July 01, 2005, 07:34:41 AM »
Going Crazy,

You have the patience of a saint. I can not believe they have not sent you notification yet! That is absurd.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Give Up on My Dream?
« on: June 30, 2005, 08:43:04 PM »

I would have to agree with Paperback Writer, I have not read your PS or looked at your package, but my LSAT scores are lower and my admission cycle turned out differently. My LSN link is below:

I am not writing this to be mean, I want to show it to you in hopes that you do not give up. If you want law school, you surely can get in!

Good luck in the next cycle!


Studying for the LSAT / Re: Give Up on My Dream?
« on: June 30, 2005, 07:41:11 PM »
I think waiting makes a lot of sense. In the meantime, there are a couple of points you should consider. First, don't go out-of- state to a T3 or T4 unless you are sure that you want to live there. Law degrees are not particularly mobile, and you might have a lot of trouble getting back to NJ. Second, you might want to assess whether practicing law is for you. I certainly agree that the LSAT is not a perfect predictor, but it does measure some skills that are important for practicing law (i.e. logical analysis and reading comprehension of dense passages). This is not meant to be an insult---it's just that different people have different abilities. I suck at Math and would fail miserably in a graduate program that required it. You should try and take the LSAT untimed and see how you do. If you still struggle, law might not be right for you. Good Luck!

While I do agree that you should wait a year or two, finish your masters and get work experience, I do not agree that going out of state to a T3 or T4 is a mistake. If this is truly a dream, sometimes you need to sacrafice and go to a school out of the area you want to practice in. While many T3 and T4 schools are regional, it is still possible to move your degree to a different just have to put in the effort to get the job done. Career services may not have conections in many places out of the region, and they may not be able to point you in the direction of summer jobs out of their area, but it does not mean that time and effort will not get you a job in your home town area. Since you may have to go outside the state, you need to recognize that you will need to put in a lot of time and effort to land a job back home. However, I do agree that going outside of NJ and hoping to come back and land a big law job may be a mistake. I imagine that big law revolves around reputation and big names, so going to a school outside the area may be a barrier there. But, I think it really depends on what you want out of the degree, and how hard you work while in school. I know there are many T3 and T4 schools that have alums in NJ/NY/PA even though the law school is outside those regions. (For example, I know that Vermont Law School has a huge alum base in that area).

I think the E&Es are more like getting a headstart on the stretching before the marathon than a mile headstart, but that's just my opinion. I certainly don't think it will hurt in anyway, but the biggest help was probably just in giving you something to focus your energy on that was law related in the pre-amble to law school to give you piece of mind.

So, what would you read? The Gilberts sounds interesting based on the past comment that it ties things together. Does that mean it is more like a "survey course"?

The Gilberts is more or less a survey of the course. Basically it cuts the information into chapters and goes into length discussing the rules of the law, and gives examples of their applications. It does this in a large outline type form so that you can see how all the pieces fall together.

As someone mentioned,the E and E are best used for preping for finals. I used both of these books in addition to class work and problems. I do not know that they would be helpful if used alone without class content.

because i have nothing better to do with my life, i decided to stroll around the tulane bookstore today. the e&es, commercial outlines, and outlines of commercial outlines are all enormous. i question how thoroughly anyone can read these books on top of reading the cases, organizing class notes, and outlining. maybe i am overestimating the amount of work that i believe law school requires.

i write making the assumption that reading our casebooks and doing our own outlines are more important that reading and working through supplements, of course.


Although the supplemental books are long, you will be surprised at how helpful they are. In no way did I have time to read through each and every page, and as you go through the book, you will find that the book covers concepts you know and understand, and these become redundant. However, they do help to understand the more difficult concepts and to give you an edge in class discussion.

Also, it is a must to do your own outline and to start early. Looking at Gilberts or E and E is ok for reference, but you need to figure out how you memorize things and how things make sense in your head. No supplemental reading can do that for you. I know a few people who did not do their own outlines, and who did not keep up with it from the start and they really suffered.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: 3rd times a charm?
« on: June 30, 2005, 01:36:40 PM »
I took the LSAT 3 times also. My mistake was taking it the second time without really preparing since it was lower than my first time, I had no choice but to take it a third time.

I would just say be very careful you do not score lower, because that would be counter productive, especially since scores are normally averaged.

I wish you the best!

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Give Up on My Dream?
« on: June 30, 2005, 11:26:59 AM »
I think that if you really want to go to law school you are going to have to accept and embrace a T3 or T4 school. I know that is hard to do, trust me I struggled with the concept for awhile. Admissions are rough, and they are not going to get any easier in the future. The LSAT is weighed so heavily in the admission cycle, that it really turns low scorers away. I am a poor standardized test taker, it is just one of those unfortunate things in life. I can write a blue book esay like no other, but you give me a standardized test and I crumble.

Academically I am accomplished and I have never had a problem (UG and Grad). Accepting that the LSAT was a wall that I could not break through, was hard for me. But I knew I wanted to practice law, so I did not let it bring me down. I took the LSAT 3 times. I wrote an addendum for my low score which was the second test, the third I had to take the reedem myself from the second test. Sometimes things do not go as planed, sometimes to acheive our dreams we have to go about it in different ways, we have to work harder, and sometimes we need to recognize our weakness and let our strengths talk for us.

Do not give up hope. There are law schools that will accept you. You need to try to be positive and portray yourself positively to the ad coms. I wrote an addendum that turned my negative around and focused on the positives that tied into my personal statement. You have to sell yourself. Your soft factors will not make up for your LSAT score, but it can help you if you are borderline and need a boost. I know they helped me get into 4 schools, and get waitlisted at 9. Sure, I got a ton of rejections too, but things work out. Keep your head up and keep your eye on your goal. It might not happen the way you think it will, but such is life. You may have to move out of NJ to live out your dreams, but the state will still be here when you are ready to come back, whether that be after a transfer in a year, or after you complete a 3 year education. We have to deal with the cards we are dealt, and we have to take bets, albeit sometimes not with the best odds, but if you really want this, you have to try...and be relentless.

Good luck!

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