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Messages - Grubesac

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Current Law Students / Re: Employment and Experience at UC Hastings
« on: May 23, 2005, 09:23:04 AM »

Current Law Students / Re: Employment and Experience at UC Hastings
« on: May 16, 2005, 08:59:35 AM »
Funny, I've heard just the opposite at another site. I wish I could get some more clarification...

Current Law Students / Employment and Experience at UC Hastings
« on: May 16, 2005, 07:35:06 AM »
I just wanted to put this out there really quick and see if anyone know why UC Hastings job placement upon graduation hovered around 65% in 2003. I haven't been able to find info for the latest grad, and the hastings website only posts the grad rate 9 months out which is much better. This is of course no mistake, since what school wants you to know that 35% of their graduates can't line up a job at grad time.

Does anyone know anything about this or career placement in general at hastings? I know most people say that to be considered for big law you need to be in the top 25% (Is this true from what you all know?). Where does one need to graduate to even have a job lined up at graduation or is it more about the contacts one has made during clinics, externships, and summer employment? In essence, how important is the networking game for graduating Hastings students?

Thanks to any who can answer some or all of my questions. Comments on the overall Hastings experience would be appreciated as well. General likes, dislikes etc...

Although I am not a student yet, I will be attending and have done a lot of reading on these boards about law, hastings, and elsewhere. Here are the factors you need to consider.

1. What sort of environment do you want
a. Hastings - Urban, located in arguably one of the top five cities int he country, but the campus is relatively non-existent and their is no other undergrad/grad programs. The social scene will be entirely different.
b. Davis - traditional campus and college town

2.School Rank
a. Davis is ranked higher
b. no one in california cares and hastings is regarded as a better institution, more alumni, better opportunities in SF etc. I think a lot of davis grads end in Sacramento. Where do you want to work?

3. Unless you are at a top 14 or so school where you are guaranteed any job you want more or less, all law schools are competitive. Hastings rep is exaggerated and students freely join study groups and share outlines from everything i have heard. Hastings is competitive in the sense that it competes with Stanford and Boalt Grads. You have to be be near the top of your class to get recruited by BIGlaw, top 25% for sure. Thats true of any school in a big legal market where firms recruit also from elite schools. Big Law is not really my calling personally, but its a barometer of things. I don't think the big cali firms recruit much at all at davis. In that sense, yes, Davis may be more relaxed, but I wouldn't count on it. And if BigLaw is your deal, I would do a little research and probably skip Davis.  If you are applying in the SF area Hastings will be held in higher regard than Davis. I'm not sure where the davis name carries more weight.

4. Assess what you want from law degree
I don't know the course offerings or how they differ, but hastings is a larger school and will offer more courses. Hastings is known for producing top notch litigators and for real practical stuff. Davis is right near sacramento and i'm sure there tons of programs to take advantage of at being in near the center of state government. Compare course offerings. Hastings has a ton of clinics that I find appealing.

It really comes down to what you want. Hastings has the best moot court teams in the country, consistently, every year. They have semester long study abroad programs, which most schools don't. Their location near the courts and city hall will provide some great opportunities. You have to know what you want my friend, the schools are so close in terms of quality that you need to assess what you want from your law degree, what sort of work you want, and what experience you'd like to have.

Current Law Students / Re: Government Work and Politics
« on: May 13, 2005, 07:21:48 AM »
Ah rapunzel, I think we have wondered into a great intelligent and meaningful debate. Thanks Jumbo, Rapunzel and all ye contributors. We've mingled concepts of theory, practicality, necessity, responsibility, and civic duty. Whats better is that we didn't deteriorate into personal attacks, we maintained the discussion at an intellecutal level, and we didn't pick apart at the minutiae in hope of making someone look stupid (which if you've noticed can happen on the boards where a debate sort of heats up).

I think I'm tapped out for now on the subject matter, but the views presented have made me think about my law career in meaningful ways - Thanks...

Current Law Students / Re: Government Work and Politics
« on: May 11, 2005, 09:50:36 AM »
Fair play.  Although you don't feel people "benefit" from the current system, the current system still puts people in positions to be able serve the needs of others in the community, including you, and until that is not the case, I feel everyone has the obligation to contribute to the public system. I do, however, welcome inspired approaches to learning as you have outlined.

Current Law Students / Re: Government Work and Politics
« on: May 11, 2005, 07:07:32 AM »
Without broad based funding the school system would decline in quality and further seperate the haves (those who can afford to send their kids to private schools), from the havenots. Furthermore, people you rely on for your everyday survival, your banker, grocer, local store clerk, etc, all depend on public schools. In this way, these schools benefit you. Those who benefit from schools, no matter how indirectly, are responsible for their maitainence. Because your house isn't on fire means your tax dollars shouldn't support your local fire department? Perhaps you don't want your tax dollars to support parks and recreation areas because you have your own private land to enjoy? 

I agree, the public school system as a whole is a mess, in this day more practicality needs to be incorporated into the liberal arts style approach in high schools. Can you use microsoft excel at an advanced level? Bill Gates won't be hiring our children in the future and the schools need to be restructured somewhat, but to say you shouldn't have to fund them if you want to pursue other avenues for your children is ridiculous.
I'm interested, though as you seem not only to condemn public schools but the whole education system. I think that education does take place in schools, but you seem disillusioned. Are you an advocate of home schooling or are you an advocate for privatizing all schools or what is your answer? I suppose we could work at dismantling the whole system and doing something else, but what should we do?

Current Law Students / Re: Government Work and Politics
« on: May 10, 2005, 08:42:44 AM »
I guess that depends a lot on the scale of the political body I'd ever be involved in. Local, state, or national I suppose each have their own sets of issues to address. I haven't formulated any legislation, but there are issues that generate a sense of urgency within me.
My biggest concern as a "sociologist" are urban ghettos and the problems associated with them. Although court cases have been taken all the way to the supreme court to debate whether or not  it is constitutional to fund schools based on local property taxes, I think this is still the key issue. A two pronged approach is needed to eliminating ghettos. One is over-funding inner-city schools as compared to suburban, mostly white, schools. However, this alone is not the answer. Steps need to be taken to counter the"culture of poverty" that has developed so that social capital can be created an passed from generation to generation (ex: many white children are have relatively educated parents and are able to obtain and learn many things before entering school. This is not the case for ghetto children. In fact Lyndon Johnson started the Head Start program to address this very issue). Our country is overly keen on the idea of "personal responsibility", but the problem is that this is an easy way to ignore the problems that many people face due to many circumstances beyond ones control. In essence, we as a society feel very comfortable ignoring the problems of others since we feel others problems are of their own creation. We therefore bear no responsibility for them. Also in this vein, systematically the denial of home loans (red-lining) to lower income individuals kept many african american's from obtaining the biggest wealth generator in the past fifty years, the subburban home. Lending practices need to be closely monitored and loans need to be made more available to those of lower income. A very radical transition in the city is taking place once again, and that is that people again want to live in them. Look around you, if you are from a big city, you see condos being built everywhere. This ups the property value (which isn't a bad thing), but unless the area is rent controlled it will soon be unaffordable to many citizens (often times minorities). I'm sure you've heard of the process of gentrification, and the more it happens, the greater the need will be for affordable housing...unless of course you prefer people to move to where it is affordable, say like, the ghetto. Obviously, we need to be mindful of the changes taking place in our cities and yes, while great for real estate developers and many people including myself who love living in an urban environment, there are other people impacted by our desires.

On a local level, those are my most pressing concerns. On a national and international scale there are others that intrigue me (we need a national call for energy independence, calling america's youth to the sciences and engineering fields, just as Kennedy did with his call to put a man on the moon), campaign finance laws, prescription drug costs(the largetst contributer to the skyrocketing health costs that unduly impact the bottom line of our businesses and force the lower income individuals to go without) but I'm most concerned with the plight of urban minorities and community redevelopment.

Current Law Students / Re: Government Work and Politics
« on: May 09, 2005, 11:53:23 AM »
Fair enough, the pro bono work is something to be proud of.

Current Law Students / Re: Government Work and Politics
« on: May 09, 2005, 08:15:49 AM »
 I have never said anything about being pure, and I wouldn't characterize politics as a pursuit in purity. I understand the necessity for people to work in the for profit sector, without business and the gerneration of capital we as a country would fail in all pursuits. We need not all pursue the "greater good", however, law being the powerful instrument that it is, my original concern was the overwhelming LACK OF ANY DISCUSSION AT ALL about things related to law outside the scope of BigLaw, rankings, and the highest salary possible. We can't all and all need not be working for non-profit or have an eye on legal reform and influence on policy, but shouldn't at least SOME of us?

I'm not taking a holier than thou, and I'm not a chastizing ideological tree hugger, but the lack of any concern demonstrated in all the postings I have seen alarms me. Moreover, those people who put others down are more so acting in the manner of an activist. An activist who does not incite others to act for social betterment is not much of an activist and if they did not "put others down" as you say, could not legitimately call themselves activists. Those who are truly noble have to treat other people like that, since working on social issues and social reform requires them to raise awareness.

" If the point is that you're doing the work because you find it personally satisfying and beneficial to others, you'd probably leave it at that." In fact, activisty, progressive, public interest people would not leave it at that, not if they are worth anything. (However, personally attacking someone else for the work they do is ridiculous, but the corporate world-including the employees- needs to be held in check and remain conscious of social issues).

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