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Messages - blocke123

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Because I was torn between a few schools.  I tallied up the number of firms that visited the above schools:

School name  # of firms in Chicago    # of firms visiting from US

Illinois               41                         132
Iowa                   17                         125
Wisconsin              21                         86
Kent                   21                         43
Loyola Chicago         25                         40

I think a lot of people will turn down scholarship money and other rewards.  I'm turning down a lot easier living situation and 10K from Kent to go to U of Iowa.

Maybe it should just be diversity of courses and career prospects.

Keep the reputation the way they are, but make it more of a 20/10, favoring firms.

It should be

10- peer review
20- employer review
20- average salary FOR ALL students/COL
5- Clerkship placement (more points for feds)
5- Academia
10- Employment Rate
10- Bar Passage
10- SF Ratio
10- Classes per student

Average salary doesn't make any sense because you're giving undue weight to schools who place in major cities.  Iowa has a crappy average salary but does that mean I should go to Loyola-Chicago instead of Iowa?

Also, I really don't know if people will care too much about SF ratio/classes per student.  This feels like a "soft" number that won't help you get the next job.

Then again, maybe its best if schools aren't RANKED at all.  Maybe they should provide us with raw data and we should make our own rankings.

Reputation is, in large part, established by the USNEWS rankings themselves. To place an over-emphasis on the reputation score would put an unfair and nearly unalterable benefit to the current top schools, and weight against the lower ranked schools.

I think that's possibly the worst suggestion that could be offered.
Actually since all we really concern ourself is the ability to get work why do we care about anything but reputation and the placement data?

Put 80% of the ranking on reputation scores.  5% on incomming LSAT median and 5% on incomming GPA median and 5% on employed at 9 months, 2% on yeild and 3% on facilities (buildings, technology).

Our tuition dollars and other monies are incentives to law schools.  As most law students find the US News rankings a great guide to deciding where to go these rankings are "measurements" that will yeild those incentives.  So what you really should be asking is what do we want law schools to do? 

I want them to help me get a good job.  I'd say 95% of rankings should be future career prospects.  Rankings should be based on the ability of law schools to get us jobs.

IMO I think 80% of the score should be on what LAWYERS and ACADEMICS think of the school.  These are the people in charge of hiring and the people you will be associated most with for the rest of your life.  In fact -- putting 20% on employment rate is complete crap for the T10 because all are like 98%+.  Thus, it magnifies insignificant differences.  I really only look at the reputation rankings of the schools when using USNWR.

Agree with the above. The perception of lawyers/judges are what I am concerned with (I don't care what "colleagues" say either).  However, one major issue is that so few, <30%, respond to this question.  This would lead me to believe there could be some selectivity bias in this number.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Top 20 IP Schools
« on: April 01, 2006, 02:36:11 PM »
>As a student going into IP, I've made the decision to go to the best school in my region, regardless of it's strength in IP. That's the advice that I've been given several times.

That's exactly correct, I think. The ranking of IP school only matters, if at all, if you don't have any applicable background. For someone with a PhD in natural sciences, for instance, just go to the best law school overall. You're already going to make a killing in IP with that degree, no one will care at all if the law school you chose is ranked higher in IP. I've already encountered this in choosing Stanford over Boalt ... sure, Boalt may be #1 in IP, but Stanford's apparently #2, and I'd rather be at a private school with nicer resources. And with a doctorate in sci, it won't matter to anyone anyway.


Well to be more exact, I don't see why anyone who doesn't have an engineering/technical degree would even bother to try to get an IP.  Esp. since you can't even set for teh patent bar.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Top 20 IP Schools
« on: April 01, 2006, 04:50:04 AM »
I personally think these rankings have some affect on IP hiring, but it is minimal at best. I think it depends tremendously on your undergrad degree and your experience with IP law/subject matter. If a student from FSU law, who has an undergrad degree in electrical engineering and has worked at an engineering firm for 3 years before law school is applying for the same job as someone from Stanford who came straight from undergrad with a history degree I am willing to bet the fsu law student will get the job. Granted I am ignoring the alumni factor, but even with that I think the fsu law student might get the job anyways. IP firms want more then a law degree, they want people who can understand backwards and forwards technical data. Now if an IP firm is trying to decide between a student at FSU that came straight from undergrad with a history degree and a student at GW that came straight from undergrad with a history degree, then I think the GW student wins because US News says that his/her IP education is better. Am I wrong?

I don't think you're wrong.  You have to have an engineering/science degree to sit for the patent law exam.  If you don't have a technical degree you probably won't be very competitive in the marketplace!

Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists / Re: Kent v. Loyola
« on: March 31, 2006, 09:40:36 AM »
The new numbers seem to validate the thinking that Kent is on the rise and Loyola is in decline. Loyola really looks in jeopardy of possibly falling behind DePaul.

This could not be further from the truth.

As a Loyola student, you have to be pissed off by the new rankings. Kent is now ten spots ahead of Loyola and it is not unreasonable to think that Loyola might continue it's fall down the rankings to below DePaul.

Above is a profound statement.  Any reason to validate what you just said?  I'm not saying that Loyola is a bad school, I think it is better than Kent/DePaul but I have very little basis to make that statement.

I agree with you on the multiple definitions of "good." That's what makes ANY rankings system so problematic to begin with. Everyone has a different idea of what it means to be "good."

But I disagree with you on Leiter. Just as everyone has different ideas of what is "good," every law school applicant has different ideas about what matters in a law school. For some students (e.g., me), Leiter's system makes a lot more sense. I care about faculty scholarship and the academic rep of each law school, because I'm interested in an academic career (an area Leiter covers quite thoroughly). Leiter's rankings are, for me, far superior to USN's.

For others -- often, for those who simply approach the rankings blindly -- USN is all there is.

Out of curiosity, what is it that makes Leiter's rankings so "off-base" for you? Is it just that you don't think faculty scholarship matters that much?

A question, is there a good ranking out there for students who don't care about anything except their ability to get a job out of school.  All I want to see ranked is % hired in 9 months in JD REQUIRED careers (because that's what I'm interested in, I want to be a lawyer).  And the average salary of each specialty, Iowa gave me this exact information when I visited them.  As a result I know Iowa is superior to many other schools I am looking at, purely because I have this data.

My opinion is that there should be a ranking (reputation among lawyers is a good proxy) that provides the reviewer with the answer "which school is more impressive from a reputation standpoint".  I think the vast majority of law school students care only about what career they have out of school, not how often the school's professors are cited, not how many books are in the library not the LSAT/GPA numbers of the students, only the reputation and if possible reliable hiring data... think its pretty easy to work that out.


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