Law School Discussion

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Messages - Janna116

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11
General Board / Re: orientation questions
« on: August 18, 2005, 01:07:45 PM »
the previous comment about 2Ls and 3Ls in wrong.  They are doing their on-campus interviews now, and they will all be dressed in suits.  Don't let it intimidate you; you'll see less of those suits after the first few weeks.

Wear whatever you feel comfortable with for orientation and throughout the year. 

Maybe it's wrong for your school but I am a 2L and I've been to school a few hours each day this week for various reasons where I have seen plenty of 2L's and 3L's who were all dressed casually.  Our OCI hasn't started yet.  In fact, a lot of people haven't even returned from their summer positions yet. 

So if you see anyone in a suit, I agree, ignore them...

Jen

12
Studying and Exam Taking / Re: I.A.N. Study Group
« on: August 17, 2005, 01:01:31 PM »
I, like a few others have been trying to figure out your thread name so I read a few of your posts for clues, dug around and I think I've figured it out.  (Who said that 1st year legal research class was useless?)  Anway, if I'm right, then I have to say that your name doesn't really fit you anymore seeing how you are attending law school. 

Good luck with classes and belated congratulations on your acceptances.  (Hope I didn't give away your secret identities)

-Jen

13
General Board / Re: orientation questions
« on: August 17, 2005, 12:46:34 PM »
If you're really nervous: go to school, chances are there are some 2Ls and 3Ls wandering the halls by now.  Make note of what they are wearing and follow suit to join the crowd. 

If your concern is based on reading OneL or The Paper Chase and you think that you need to wear a blazer to class, those books are about 30 years old and law school, or at least my school, is a lot more casual.  Most people just wear jeans and T's or khakis and polos, skirts and T's etc...  However, there is a wide spectrum and some people dress up because they like to, so wear what you want and I'm sure you'll blend in.

-Jen

14
Studying and Exam Taking / Re: Study Aids
« on: August 16, 2005, 11:37:07 PM »
Study aids help but it depends on the prof and the class.  For example, my Civ Pro prof was the most confusing person you could ever meet.  If I hadn't purchased E&E Glannon for Civ Pro and High Courts keyed to Yeazell I wouldn't have had any idea what was going on in there.  On the other hand my Contracts professor was great and I didn't really feel the need to go overboard with the supplements, the Black Letter Outline was all I needed. 

So you might want to wait a week or two to figure out which classes you need help in and which classes you feel like you have a grip on. Also a lot of people didn't buy books or flashcards until right before exams in a sort of panic.  I'd recomend ebay right now if you wanted to go ahead and buy some cheap study aids.  The number of books in the Law and Government section of textbooks has doubled over the past week on ebay.

As far as edition, as long as the book was published within the last 3 or 4 years I would imagine that the law as we know it has not changed dramatically.  My Glannons book was published in 2001 and that was fine.  If there has been some new decision from the supreme court which requires a complete overhaul of the textbooks and supplements then I would get the most current.

I like E&E, especially for Civ Pro, but also excellent for other things.  I also really liked the Black Letter Outline series, different from the Black Letter series.  I have never looked at or used Legalines or Casenotes but I have used High Courts and their great in a pinch.  As far as picking a particular outline, canned brief etc, go to the bookstore and flip through a few of them and find a format that you like.  Also ask the 2Ls and 3Ls at your school for their recomendations, some profs teach more toward one book than another and my Con Law prof actually recomended Emanuels over Gilberts because it turned out that he used exam questions directly out of Gilberts so of course we all went out and purchased Gilberts.  So there may be reasons to buy a particular study aid over another other than someone on LSD says they liked it, although their opinions are useful.

In summation, study guides are not useless, wait to figure out which classes you need help in, ask upperclassmen about recomendations, browse through the book store and Most importantly:

If you buy a study aid try to read it throughout the semester or you might find yourself reading a Gilberts one week before exams thinking "why oh why didn't I read this sooner."

Good luck with school and congrats on your scholarship.

Jen

15
General Board / Re: President of my Law School student senate?
« on: August 16, 2005, 01:29:45 AM »
The OP isn't crazy, what's crazy is that a simple question about the SBA has gone on and on for 3 pages and almost a month.  I don't think it's necessary for one more person to tell her, Law Review and Moot Court is more prestigious than SBA, she gets it, she still wants to do it.  Let this thread die already.


16
General Board / Re: Professional Conduct, Responsibility & Ethics
« on: August 14, 2005, 07:48:49 PM »
Wild Jack:

First I'm going to assume that you are a law student or law school graduate as you are in the students and graduates forum.  

As far as working for clients.  It is a lawyer's job to represent his client to the best of his abilities.  As long as the client is not demanding that the lawyer break the law then the lawyer should be a zeolous advocate.  It sounds like you might have more of an issue with the questionable ethics of clients and the professional requirements that lawyers have to represent their client's wishes.

Do you think that the "extremes" you witnessed represented a reufsal to abide by the Rules of Conduct and Responsibility of that state?

Jen


Jen, the 'you should have known better' theory is actually what I am talking about. Lawyers' clients don't only include bank robbers and embezzlers who might be only too happy about receiving advice about how to commit a crime. Lawyers' clients also include people of limited capacity who wouldn't know if a crime was being perpetrated against them.

And yes, a lawyer should know better simply because of the law education and position of fiduciary.


No, that is not what I said, I meant that if a lawyer commits a crime then they should not be held to different standards than any other criminal, not that their clients are embezzelers and bank robbers and that they are helping them commit crimes.  Simply existing as a member of society should teach us proper ethical standards and social mores.  Someone who attended law school for three years should not be treated differently than someone who didn't.  Law school or not a crime's a crime and I didn't need a semester of Criminal law to learn how to behave. 

I don't know what you were doing recently or where you were but if you think that you witnessed attorneys giving "advice about how to commit a crime" and "taking advantage of people of limited capacity" and "perpetrating [a crime] against them." I would report that to the state bar.  Lawyers need to keep the best interest of their clients needs in mind and aiding them in the commital of criminal acts or actually commiting crimes against their clients is obviously not acting in the best interest of their clients or their job. 

It sounds like you have had a terrible experience in dealing with attorneys and I am sure that there are bad apples in every profession.  I don't think that you have spent any meaningful time with honest and hardworking attorneys or you wouldn't have such a terrible opinion of the profession as a whole.

Jen




17
General Board / Re: Question about purchase of new home
« on: August 14, 2005, 03:47:34 AM »
Maybe I'm trying to oversimplify this but if you are so worried about the contract don't wait until after you sign it to find an attorny find one before, let them know what is going on, get their opinion on what the builder is doing and then have them review the contract when it is ready.  You've known for a month that you were going to get a contract.  But as to this transaction, even if you only have three days that should be three business days(I'm assuming) so you have until Wednesday and I don't know what kind of a town you live in but I imagine there are a number of law firms and lawyers and if you call enough of them on Monday then I'm sure you can find one who will meet with you on Tuesday. 

I worked for a solo practitioner this summer and he would get calls from people who wanted to sit for a consulation all the time.  He was often able to set a meeting for the next day.  It's not a lot of time but I think you'll be able to find someone.

This is a purchase contract.  I've never bought a house, but I have sold one and most stuff is boiler plate/ non-negotiable, aside from the price.  Unless they are going to build you your dream home and draw up architectural plans to your specifications down to the Redding Pipes, I imagine this is a pretty stock contract.  You'll go through picking plan A for the floor plan, package A for the lighting fixtures, package C for the cabinetry and package B for the Appliances.  You'll upgrade the carpet and pick out your exterior paint colors and then they'll add up the price.  (You may not get to pick all of those things but you get the idea.)

I too have had one year of contracts and in my internship I often "found" things that didn't seem right all summer and my boss would explain things to me and then I'd see they weren't as shady as I thought they were.  Law school has taught us to be skeptical and suspicios and maybe that is helpful in practice but it doesn't seem to be helping out in your life right now.

Go to the signing and check it out and let us know how it turned out.  Good luck with the house purchase anyway.  I wish I could afford a house now.  Ahhh to dream...

Jen

 

18
General Board / Re: Professional Conduct, Responsibility & Ethics
« on: August 14, 2005, 03:30:14 AM »
Wild Jack:

First I'm going to assume that you are a law student or law school graduate as you are in the students and graduates forum.  In which case I'd like to remind you that regardless of your idea of the professional ethics of lawyers you will have to take or will have already taken The Multistate Professional Responsibility Examination (MPRE) which is required for admission to the bars of all but three US jurisdictions.  This is an exam which tests the taker's knowledge of the proffesional ethical standards to which lawyers are held. 

As the allmighty keepers of the law and all things related to law, lawyers are unfairly held to higher standards than other professions, because of some sort of "you should have known better, you know the law" reasoning.  This is ridiculous as it implies tht the embezzeling businessman or armed robber might not have known better simply because they didn't spend three years in law school.  Lawyers are as fallable as the guy in the next profession but it is unfair to characterize all lawyers or future lawyers as unethical or uncaring. 

As far as working for clients.  It is a lawyer's job to represent his client to the best of his abilities.  As long as the client is not demanding that the lawyer break the law then the lawyer should be a zeolous advocate.  It sounds like you might have more of an issue with the questionable ethics of clients and the professional requirements that lawyers have to represent their client's wishes. 

Do you think that the "extremes" you witnessed represented a reufsal to abide by the Rules of Conduct and Responsibility of that state?

Jen



19
MikeinSF

The last poster was talking about a Tort liability case.  Did you just want an arguable case or, since you are a government teacher, did you want a case that dealt with constitutional issues?  Just trying to narrow down the hundreds of cases I've read.

Jen

20
General Board / Re: law school environments
« on: August 14, 2005, 02:41:48 AM »
Wow, I've only gotten through my first year about to enter second and I was about to post that I attend Wake Forest and it is not cutthroat at all.  Everyone seems to genuinely care about one another for the most part.  Everyone pretty much shares study info etc and the upperclassman even give us their outlines for our classes.  But maybe lincoln is right.  Maybe that is all section comradery and maybe the upperclasses are more cutthroat.  As far as year one and the upperclassman being nice to first years Wake is great as far as being an upperclassman, I might have to get back to you on that.  It seems pretty collegial.  I've never heard any horror stories.

Jen

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