Cannotpick:

I've been reading your messages from the last year or so with some interest. I must admit, as a Bklyn Law grad, I'm impressed, you portray the school very well. Reading some of your posts, its like I am reading my own pists from many years ago (I graduated in 2001, and like you, interned for a federal magistrate judge in SDNY my 1L summer).

I also would be happy to answer any questions from any students interested in hearing about BLS, the good the bad and the ugly (bar failure, the fact that average BLS salary is really around mid 50s to mid 70s, regardless of career center staff puffery, and Bklyn's rep in NYC legal community (which is solid, but we are not in the same league as the big boys aka "T-14").
My email is listed on my profile.

Best of luck!

New blog for those students and graduates of Brooklyn Law in NYC:

http://www.brooklawtalk.com/

If you look at my original post, I DID list Fordham as a level above BLS and Cardozo. I never put Fordham in the same category as BLS and Cardozo because I know about 40% of the class go to top firms and that it ranks 30 spots higher (although there were two years where Fordham ranked # 35 and 40 respectively, its always been a school ranked in the 30-40 range). I'm not arguing that, Fordham has always had a stronger student body (admission-wise) than BLS/Cardozo and has greater geographic diversity represented in its incoming class.


As such, it would T1 - NYU/Col/Cornell, T1.5 - Fordham, T2 - BLS/Cardozo/SJU/Hofstra, etc.

Thats what the
=====>
 was for.

However, being bottom half at Fordham: you might as well just have saved the $$ and gone to BLS/Cardozo. If your grades at Fordham are good, you have great options. If they aren't, you aren't going to get a job at Skadden or Davis Polk, simple as that.

Now can we move on from this discussion already?

From personal experience, I've only met about 8 Touro grads in my internships during law school and at my current firm. I met none when I worked in the federal courthouse in Brooklyn & Manhattan. I did have one case last week where my opposing counsel was a 2000 Touro grad, he was much older (early 40's) but very well regarded in his firm. I liked dealing with him, he was very peresonable.

I don't have much exposure to Touro grads though, as my understanding is that the majority of private firms that hire and retain Touro grads practice in the area of personal injury or local insurance defense.

You might want to speak to current Touro students to get a better sense of career prospects. The law firms around Suffolk County are pretty receptive to Touro grads getting hired as interns or entry level attorneys.

If you are interested in firm placement, you might want to check out Martindale Hubbell

www.martindale.com

Plug in the name of a law firm and type "Touro" in the School Name field.

For Wilson Elser (600 attorney insurance defense law firm with offices throughout Northeast), I only found 5 Touro grads.

http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_Locator/search_result.xml?PG=0&STYPE=N&LNAME=&FNAME=&FN=Wilson+Elser&CN=&CTY=&STS=&CRY=1&LSCH=Touro

For Wilson Elser, I plugged in Hofstra and received 19 listings:

http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_Locator/search_result.xml?PG=0&STYPE=N&LNAME=&FNAME=&FN=Wilson+Elser&CN=&CTY=&STS=&CRY=1&LSCH=Hofstra


I did a search for the # of Brooklyn grads at Wilson Elser and received 36 gradautes:

http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_Locator/search_result.xml?PG=0&STYPE=N&LNAME=&FNAME=&FN=Wilson+Elser&CN=&CTY=&STS=&CRY=1&LSCH=Brooklyn

More startling, I also put in St. John's Law in the field for Wilson Elser and found 56 graduates:


http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_Locator/search_result.xml?PG=0&STYPE=N&LNAME=&FNAME=&FN=Wilson+Elser&CN=&CTY=&STS=&CRY=1&LSCH=St.+John%27s

So as a tally:

56 = St. Johns

36= Brooklyn

19 = Hofstra

5 = Touro

You start to see a pattern..right?

>>>Fordham Law is ranked #27 in the nation- its a Tier 1 school. It doesn't have the same prestige as NYU, Cornell or Columbia- but its certainly more than just a "decent regional school" in my opinion.

Brooklyn and Cardozo are ranked #58, Fordham is #27 (which is firmly within Tier 1)- and if you look at the stats for the entering classes, you'll see that Fordham's is several cuts above Brooklyn and Cardozo- which are both still great schools that both have the top quarter of their classes getting into BigLaw after graduation. Sure NYU grads can all get into BigLaw, but half of Fordham's class can, which is still pretty damn impressive.

Both Brooklyn and Cardozo are significantly better than Hofstra and St. John's. It and Hofstra are still not on the same level as Brooklyn or Cardozo. Only about the top 10% of Hofstra and St. John's could get into BigLaw, instead of the top 25% from Brooklyn and Cardozo.

SUNY Buffalo is a Tier 2 school- NYLS is either a Tier 3 or a Tier 4 school, I don't remember which, but I do remember that Buffalo is Tier 2.

Okay you are correct if you were to blindly rely only on the US News Rankings.

The way I wrote it is the way law firms and the NYC legal community overall views all schools based on an average of the school's quality from about 1996 to the Present.

Fordham is a solid regional school, and it is indeed Tier 1, however bottom of the class (50% and below) end up working at the SAME law firms as BLS and Cardozo grads. I should know because I had friends in that same boat (and guess what, they received interviews at small firms just like the rest of BLS/Cardozo people).

another misconception is the diference between Hofstra/SJU and BLS/Cardozo. I went to BLS and while I always thought BLS and Cardozo were leagues above Hofstra/SJU in terms of admissions, their local rep is still pretty solid. My law firm makes NO DISTINCTION between a Brooklyn grad and a Hofstra grad. Sad but true. You still need to be top 20% from all 4 schools to get a BIGLAW job.

The reason a BLS student ranked top 32% may end up at a big law firm whereas a Hofstra 2L ranked in the same 32% may not is due ot intangibles, like undergrad attended (BLS student may have gone to Williams College and written a paper about corporate governance or something). Also, BLS offers competitive clinics that are attractive to employers when listed on a resume. Hofstra has bad clinics in my opinion, esp for students who have no interest in civil litigation or public sector/criminal law work.

For ex: Brooklyn offers the Securities Arb clinic which gives students an advantage over similarly situated students at other local schools like Hofstra/SJU/NYLS and grades being EQUAL, an employer who handles Securities cases will prefer the Brooklyn student who participated in that clinic over a NYLS/Hof/SJU student who didn't have that opportunity because the school does not offer that particular clinic.

In that sense, then YES students at Brooklyn and Cardozo edge out the rest by a SMALL margin.

But when it comes to standard small and mid-sized firms that practice general commercial litigation, there IS NO difference. Ask any attorney at the Nassau County Supreme courthouse, Queens County or in Brooklyn, and they will all tell you,"I think NYU, Col and Fordham are top schools, but once you get into T2,T3 it doesnt matter *&^%."

HTH.