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Messages - nycesq2005

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Brooklyn PT vs. Rutgers-Newark?
« on: May 27, 2007, 06:47:59 PM »

I remember your old posts about transferring out of Bklyn to Columbia Law last summer. What happened? Did you change your mind and decide to stay at Bklyn? I'm just curious because I'm a BLS alum and remember reading some of your old posts about transferring.

Thank you for thes rather informative posts. I feel more confident about my application to BLS (it's still my second choice, after Fordham, but I don't know if I could attend Fordham even if I was accepted, due to logistical concerns). I have one question though... how is parking at/near BLS? I will be applying as a part-time evening student and driving in each evening. Does the school have parking? Is there on-the-street parking available? Am I stuck with paying for a garage space?

Parking is expensive around Bklyn Law. You have students and faculty to deal with, as well as the local court staff and lawyers who are in the area to make appearances in Kings Supreme (state), Eastern District (federal), the Bankruptcy Court, and Bklyn DA's office. I never drove to school even though I lived within 20 miles.

Part time evening students usually pay for a garage, which I think is anywhere from $150 to $300 a month or so (dont quote me, its been several years since I graduated!). Forget about driving into Court Street on a Tuesday night around 7:30 pm. There really is no parking unless you want to walk all the way from the Pier to Court St.

Parking is just a nightmare around Court Street Monday to Friday between 9 and 6 pm. The only time I drove in was on weekends(plentyspots in front of Packer Collegiate School on Joralemon) and by the Promenade.

>>> Second question is for nycesq2005, if he's browsing the thread.  If I am not like CP, and don't get the opportunity or don't desire to transfer, are there some classes or teachers 2L and 3L at BLS that you can't miss?  I already know about the clinical opportunities, including a couple of the people who head them up, but any additions would be very informative.<<

Well first off, congrats on your decision in choosing Bklyn. I think you will definitely enjoy your 3 years here.

To answer your query: I don't believe many BLS professors in 2L/3L require class attendance, save for perhaps Prof. Janger (his exams test material directly from class discussion).

I will be honest with you, I skipped MANY classes in 2L and 3L because I worked part time. I wanted to pay off my student loans as quickly as possible, and every extra dollar helped (I was earning $15/hr at a mid sized firm when I worked part time for about 20-25 hrs per week).

There is also a lot of lee-way given to 2Ls in the Fall because of on campus interviewing, As "cannotpick" will soon find out, many big firms interview students in August and schedule callbacks between September and November. Some students may have to fly out of NYC to interview with satellite offices (esp true for some clerkships where judges take 1-2 years to hire a clerk). As long as you do the work, and do well on the exam - class attendance is NOT going to be a big issue. Bklyn Law isn't a stickler about it and that is something I really like. As the saying goes: "in 1L they SCARE you to death, in 2L they WORK you to death, and in 3L they BORE you to death."

The clinics are considered part of your work experience on a resume, so I do not think you can miss any of the clinical courses. I did 3 clinics at Bklyn: the Securities Arb clinic (just the seminar because the professor limited the clinic to only 5 students per semester, the Judicial Clerkship Clinic (1L summer) and the Bankruptcy Clinic (2L Spring semester). The seminars that accompany each clinic meet about once a week for 2 hours, so you should have no reason to miss class.

Any other questions, feel free to post or email me off the board. I'll be happy to answer.

Best of luck and have a great summer!

Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists / Re: Tulane or Brooklyn? Advice?
« on: July 06, 2006, 01:47:31 PM »
Tulane has much more clout in LA than Brooklyn School of Law. A good number of agents and film industry people actually went to Tulane. I wouldn't go to Brooklyn unless you knew that you wanted to practice in Brooklyn.

Wow I would not rely on this person's advice. First of all, its called Brooklyn Law School, not "Brooklyn School of Law" (WTF is that?!).

Secondly, NYC is one of the top entertainment capitals of the world, next to CA. NYC is where the connections are. Tulane, well, yeah ok after Katrina I am sure its not going to attract many new students, but let's face it, 3 years in hick Louisiana isn't going to get you hob-nobbing with top entertainment lawyers as it would be if you were in SoHo in NYC.

Thirdly, Brooklyn places very well in NYC (per an AmLaw, it wa ranked 4th right behind Fordham).

Call me biased, but Tulane is no match for Bklyn if entertainment is what you want to do.
Its all about connections and NYC is where its at. I'd pick Bklyn in a heartbeat.

Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists / Re: Brooklyn
« on: July 06, 2006, 01:29:46 PM »
Bklyn used to have 2 wait lists a few years ago: a primary and a secondary. Look at the date of the WL letter, if its mid Feb to mid March, chances are youre on the Primary List. People on that list usually fall right under the acceptance numbers but for some reason or another, the application itself wasn't strong enough to merit an Acceptance.
The people on the Secondary List (those placed around mid-Maythrough the summer) tend to never get called.

Bklyn has heavy waitlist acticity in the summer. The year I enrolled they made calls up until the FIRST day of class (in fact, half my section of PT Day was admitted 3rd week in August). This happens when higher ranked schools open up extra seats or have waitlists opening up, then Bklyn Law admits w/ scholarships withdraw in early August leaving empty seats for BLS waitlisted folks.

It is also a strategy for Bklyn/cardozo to waitlist a certain percentage of students who they are sure will attend (thus lowering their yield, because waitlists aren't reported to USNews, which un turn affect their "Selectivity" numbers).

In my honest opinion, you have a competitive LSAT and GPA for Bklyn and Cardozo. I am just as lost as you re: the waitlists.

If I were you, I'd write an extra letter to Bklyn explaining why they are your first choice (assuming it is, unless you are already happy going to Villanova). Those letters DO get read and the applicants who exptress an interest in getting off a WL tend to move up on that list.

Good luck !

Apology accepted.

Good luck with the Columbia transfer app. Each year BLS loses the top 5% of students to NYU/Col or other schools outside NY (Chicago, N'western, etc). You should def hear by mid August, and CLS will let you participate in their OCI as soon as you get the acceptance.

hey nyceq..i cant find the american lawyer survey anywhere online.. could you tell me how Michigan does for new york placement?  thanks.

I scanned them onto my web site a long time ago but I think I took down the site. The Survey isnt really available online, it came out in 1998 and I remember seeing NYU, Columbia and other T14s on the list. Fordham was somewhere on the list (# 17?) and then Brooklyn came under Fordham at around # 42 or so, then Cardozo at 50 or 60 something. The AmLaw Survey was then updated in 2002 but the rankings in the hard copy version of the magazine. (the new rankings are focusing solely Big Firm Placement).

If I can locate a hard copy at home, I will update this post.

That intersting, very good information thanks to both of you. As far as job offers, are BK and Cardozo about the same?[/i]

Yes they are. Far as I know, both are ranked equally. I chose Bklyn over Cardozo for its

(1) reputation and alumni network(BLS around since 1901, Cardozo only since 1976)
(2) clinics (Cardozo didnt have as many as BLS when I applied
(3) facilities ('dozo didnt have a nice library or classrooms)
(4) location (Bklyn is next to all state/fed courts, steps away from the DA's Office and other agencies, Cardozo is somewhere near the Village, steps from Washington Sq Park)
(5) general vibe (I am not Jewish and didnt like Cardozo's library closing for sabbath and as a non-Jew felt I would not be welcome there)
(6) per an AMLAW survey, Bklyn beat out Cardozo in terms of NYC firm placement

As far as Cardozo's "top notch" faculty, I don't deny that they have a good list of professors that focus on the theoretical aspects of the law and curriculum. But my goal as a 1L was to (1)learn the law I needed to know to be a competent attorney/pass the bar exam, and (2) find a good job at a respectable firm. If you check out CUNY Law school, they also have professors with impressive credentials (Harvard, Yale JD's, publications galore, etc) but do these credentials make for better teaching or just mere puffery for a law school's  "Faculty Bio" Web Site? In my experience, the best professors I had at Bklyn were Rosato, Janger and Gerber - and it has nothing to do with their credentials, but because they taught the law in a way that made the most sense to me.

Hence why all of Cardozo's claim about having a "great" faculty really didn't matter that much to me (but I'm sure its an important factor to some other applicants).

>>> I want to do corporate law and I guess I was under the mistaken assumption that if you do well and intern during the summer, you will most likely be offered a job making between $125K and $145K as soon as you graduate. Some people make it seem like you won't even have to go job hunting, the jobs will come to you. Is this only at top schools, and how hard is it to get summer internships?<<<

Yes and yes. If you are ranked top 15-20% at BLS, have a decent resume, have a pulse, its going to be hard NOT to get a job offer from a big firm paying $145K. If you walk into the BLS Career Center, you can pick up the Employment Manual and see for yourself what the criteria are for certain firms (Allen & Overy requires top 20% and prefers Law Review/Journal/Moot Court membership). There are about 300-400 employers who visit BLS each fall for On Campus Recruiting, and even a lowly 1L like myself (who was ranked bottom X percent of my class) scored 3 interviews during OCI with firms like Anderson Kill & Olick, Whitman Breed and Fragomen Del Rey (large immigration firm). I did not get callbacks because my GPA was low compared to other BLS students who had similar resumes as myself (language fluency, a certain fave feeder undergrad, 1L summer with a magistrate judge). Of course, if you lack this criteria (class rank), then you are sh*t out of luck. Your job search will entail targeted cover letter/resume mailings to certain firms off Emplawyernet, Craigslist classifieds, the NY Law Journal Classifieds, and Martindale-Hubbell directories, mass mailers (I never did one but considered it), and chatting up networks/contacts as graduation time approaches (mind you, I landed my first legal job about 1 month AFTER graduating from Bklyn and from an Emplawyernet job ad no less).

If you have a BA/BS or Masters degree in engineering or a hard science, and plan to do intellectual property (patent prosecution, etc) and have passed the Patent Bar Exam (or plan to take it), then disregard everthing what I've written above re: class rank. You will be desirable pretty much anywhere given the demand for IP attorneys right now.

Re: Summer Internships
: they are plentiful. I actually did 2 in my 1L summer (one with the judge and also a part time evening internship with a local Bar Association as a Committee Member that qualfied for independent study). I secured ALL my part time and summer internships via the clinics and the Emplawyernet database. The opportunities for Brooklyn Law students are DEFINITELY there, if you make the effort to seek them out.

Any other q's, feel free to post.

Wow, that's a great answer thanks. I guess I just wanted to know if, because it's all in one building, it feels a little close. Just wondering about the layout. How bad was your first year in terms of taking in all the information and dealing with the socratic method?

FYI: I had the following professors my first year:

Gora (Con Law)
Cary (Legal Writing/Crim Law)
Rosato (Civ Pro)
Habl (Contracts, he has since passed away)
Kuklin (Torts)

All of them exercise the Socratic method to certain degreees (Gora being the most eager). My fave prof out of the above list is Rosato. She wont put you on the spot if you aren't prepared or don't know the answer, and there is no way you can possibly fall asleep in class because she can be downright funny and comical sometimes.

Kuklin might mock you a little bit and be a bit of a wise-ass if you try to BS your way through an answer, and Cary - well she's as sweet as pie and since her section is small, she might cut you some slack the first time but if you don't get your act together the 2nd time, she will keep pounding at you the remainder of the semester.

I didn't say that you created it. You are the cranky alumnus who posts about how it's damn near impossible for Brooklyn grads to pay off of their loans & how all of the career center stats are lies. You say you are happy, but you troll a message board for your old law school & post constant negativity. Don't act like you have no idea what you are talking about b/c I've read threads of 20+ posts where everyone and their mom is arguing with you and commenting on your cynicism.

Listen, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over who posted what and when, but suffice to say that on Brooklawtalk's Forum there is another poster that goes by "nyc78####" who seems to post negative messages about loans, career stats,etc. I want to make it clear that THAT PERSON IS NOT ME. My user name on Brooklaw talk (created only yesterday) is the same one as this one and I wasn't even aware of the Brooklaw talk "forums" until you mentioned it. ::)

Now as to the substance of the remaining comments, I really have nothing else to add except that as much as I like BLS and have no loan debt (I lived at home and received generous fin aid/scholarships in 2L and 3L), I dont know any Bklyn Law classmates who are struggling to pay their loans. However, just because I personally lack knowledge of BLS grads who are in default or have defaulted on loans does not mean there aren't any grads at all who are struggling right now. For that type of info, I defer to the BLS administration if they care to ever reveal that data (should they actually tabulate it).

As to the career stats, I think its common knowledge that all law schools inflate their numbers to portray their school better than it is. That much is clear when the career site boats an average $115K starting salary in the private sector when only 20-25% of the graduating class actually are employed as 1st year associates at big firms (not only that, but some schools take salaries reported by "Temps" who earn $35/hour doing doc review as 6 figure salaries, a nice exercise in mathematical creativity). In fact, I defer to Todd Bank, the plaintiff who filed a RICO action against Bklyn Law several years ago precisely on this issue (you can read that thread here:,238005). (NB I am not Todd Bank so don't even try to claim I am just his sock puppet on this board).

Whether Bklyn does this on a minor scale is unknown but I think its important for prospective Brooklyn Law students to know that getting an offer of $125-145K/year to fall on your lap right after law school is really a pipe dream for most. When the legal job market is as bad as it was right after 9/11 (2002, 2003, 2004), it goes without saying that the # of firms recruiting at Bklyn went down and the # of offers given to all law students in general, declined. When the legal job market tanks, the students hit hardest are those at the bottom. Its common sense and it is reality.

You should check first before assuming every "negative" message about Bklyn or the legal profession was actually written by me before you jump down other people's throats.


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