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Messages - northerngirl

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Transferring / Re: Transfer -- Need some advice
« on: June 05, 2005, 06:57:42 AM »
Some schools require a minimum amount and likely won't let you apply. Some one on the yahoo database from last year didn't get in to NYU and Columbia due to lack of credits. However, I believe some schools don't have minimum credits. Also, some schools also transfer into PT,so you would meet the credit standards there. You should make a list of the schools to which you want to apply and inquire about their minimum credits.

Current Law Students / Re: Seton Hall Safety at night
« on: April 07, 2005, 09:17:49 PM »
I go to SH. The parking garage is right next to the school, so you just walk out the front door of the school and are a few steps from the garage. I have always felt safe walking to the garage. There are a lot of students in the night program, so whenever I am leaving at night students are coming or going. Regarding the shuttle to the station, it is reliable. You ask the security guards to call it and a few minutes later it arrives in front of the school and drops you right in front of Penn Station. I have used it a few times. But in general, walking to Penn Station isn't that bad and a lot of people walk there at night instead of taking the shuttle. The good thing is that we are connected to a large office building, so there are many professionals walking there too. Also, all you have to do is walk down Raymond Blvd to Gateway Center and go in there. That has a walkway that connects to Penn Station, and it is a really nice office building filled with law offices. Newark can definitely be kind of scary at night but you really have nothing to worry about right around SH, especially if you are using the garage.

Transferring / Re: Transferring to Seton Hall or Rutger
« on: March 24, 2005, 10:02:18 AM »
Go to the Yahoo Transfer Groups and look in their archives. Some one transferred to SH last year.

Transferring / Re: transfer by tier
« on: March 24, 2005, 10:01:21 AM »
Hey Elo,

Thanks for the feedback. Would you mind if I ask how you became so informed on transferring i.e. schools ranking other schools. I agree with you that the benefit for transferring is that schools no longer have the rigid constraints of USNWR to impress. Schools are getting tons of applications from people at the top of their classes and there has to be something to differentiate them aside from numbers. You're right that you basically just have to give them a reason to choose you. I did apply EA to Gtown and I am hoping that my application stands out because my reasons for wanting to transfer there go beyond wanting to attend a prestigious school. They have one of the best programs in the country for that on which I want to focus (my current school does not), and I made it very clear in my statement some of their specific clinics, classes, etc. in this area have attracted me to the school. We shall see what happens. Are you applying to transfer this year as well?

Current Law Students / Re: Low LSAT, doing well in law school?
« on: March 14, 2005, 02:28:30 PM »
I agree that success on law school exams has a lot to do with keeping up with the work, getting outlines done early and doing tons of practice exams. Most of your classmates will know the material in the end -- it is more about being able to write a good exam. My LSAT was below the median for my law school - I took it more than once and the average was lower. But my GPA was ALOT higher than our median. I am in the top 10% of my law school class after my first semester. I don't think LSAT means anything in regards to law school. What matters is how prepared you are and how well you can articulate everything that you have learned.

Furthermore, exam grading in law school is anonymous at every law school that I am aware of. Thus, the professors cannot look into your file to manipulate your grades to conform to an index number. Once you're there, it doesn't matter if you conform to the index number - they already have the medians they were seeking on their records. Professors have much better things to do than research each student's index number.

oh yea...and if you are thinking of working in NYC, then I definitely say go to Rutgers. SH is slowly increasing placement there, but it is definitely not as good as Rutgers.

Hey Burning Sands -

Are you currently at law school in NJ?

I realize the location of both law schools as I go to SH. My point was that if you are commuting on the train, SH is a nicer commute. SH is only a block from Penn Station and right next to Gateway Center and whatnot so there are many people walking around and I feel much safer there. Alternately, Rutgers is a much farther walk from Penn Station, and from what I have gathered from their students, people go to the Broad Street station. From there they have to walk several blocks to school past slaughterhouses and they do not feel as safe.

I agree that both schools are probably social. My point was that SH has a much younger feel to it. Rutgers is indeed on a campus, but it is on a campus in Newark, and Newark is not the place to be after dark. They both have activities - my point was just that SH has more money. In comparing my experience to my roomie's bf, who attends Rutgers, we've realized that SH activities seem to be a bit more lavish you could say. One of the reasons why I was attracted to SH was its continuously high student satisfaction ranking, which I believe comes from the social school atmosphere. The professors have open door policies and are very friendly and always willing to give time to students. This is not to say Rutgers provides no social life - it is just a different kind of one from my personal experience and comparisons.

Both facilities are very nice. SH is 5 floors of an office-like atmosphere, but many people claim to like that. It makes them feel like they are in a more professional atmosphere. In addition, our school connects through a sky bridge to the adjacent building which houses several attorney's offices and the Newark Club, which further promotes this atmosphere. Sometimes I think it would be really nice to have a campus, but then I realize that it is Newark and I don't want to hang out in Newark regardless. Also, Rutgers is public, so it is open to all. SH is not, so I just feel safer there.

Although there is no campus as you said, there is an apartment building about 2 blocks away wherein many students have chosen to reside this year. I suppose this fosters a collegial environment for those who live there, but probably not the same as Rutgers campus. In the end though, both schools are commuter schools in general, so it really doesnt matter.

Reputation-wise, you are definitely right about Rutgers national reach. I am not so sure I agree with you on the NJ reputation. I think SH has been overly committed to getting its students judicial clerkships in NJ, and places most of its students in NJ. Most people from NJ that I talked to before attending school told me to go to SH because they knew it better than Rutgers. Rutgers definitely has better placement and higher starting salary, but like you said both schools are comparable. I go to SH, so I'd have to say I think it is a better school. I think the professors make it a better school because they are so focused on the students.

That said, I think Rutgers is also an excellent school. True, they used to be Tier One. SH has only been around 50 years, so it has not had that same opportunity. But I don't think either will shift to Tier One any time soon anyway. Like Burning Sands said, you can't go wrong. If you are in-state, consider tuition. If that is not an issue, visit both schools and pick the one at which you feel most comfortable.

Transferring / Re: Transferring DOWN
« on: March 13, 2005, 11:35:29 AM »
I don't think schools care if you are transferring down in terms of giving out money. For most schools (with exceptions like Harvard and Brooklyn and a few more) the entire first year admissions game goes out the window and they look at how well you did your first year. Most schools in the top 100 want you to definitely be top 20% and I believe a lot want you to be top 10%. I am sure there are some distinctions by school, such as if you are applying to a top 20 school and come from a Tier 4, they probably want you in the top 5% of your class, whereas a person from a Tier 1 may only have to be top 10% to transfer, but I don't think schools care if you are at a school ranked 40 and want to come to their school ranked 80. It doesn't help their ranking or numbers in any way to take some one from a higher ranked school. Like I said, they may give you slightly more leniency in making you only be in the top 10-15% rather than 5% but they won't shower money on you because you go to a higher ranked school. Most schools don't give money to transfers and the ones that do probably want you to be top 10% to give money.

That said, this might be completely different if you are talking about transferring to a Tier 4 school because they probably have a lot of people transfer out and want to replenish their school. I don't know anything about that -- perhaps they give money to transfers even if they are in the 50% of their class, but I still think this might be unlikely.

I go to Seton Hall. Here is what I think. Just overall, when I was considering the two schools, Seton Hall's Bar Pass Rate is much better than Rutgers. Rutgers isn't even above the state average and Seton Hall's is way above it. Seton Hall has a more social feel I think than Rutgers does. It is a private school, so it has much more money, which means better programs and events for its students. That doesn't mean Rutgers won't have events, but my roomie's boyfriend goes to Rutgers and our experiences have been much different in that realm. Also, Seton Hall is in a better area than Rutgers because it is only a block from Penn Station and it is right by all of the big law firms in Newark. Rutgers is further away by the Broad Street Station and you have to walk several blocks in the ghetto to get there.

In terms of reputation, I think it depends on where you want to practice. I believe Rutgers has a more national reputation in terms of hte name of the school. It places better nationally than Seton Hall. But Seton Hall I believe has a better reputation in NJ itself. In terms of numbers, I believe Seton Hall's LSAT medians are higher than Rutgers this year, which I think is something US News looks at. Seton Hall raised its median to 160 this past year with the 75% being a 162 and 25% being a 158. That said, I don't think either school is going to make a huge jump and they will probably stay around the same ranking to each other. It really doesn't matter that much where a school is ranked once you get outside of top 25 and especially when you get into a Tier 2. Neither school is going to jump to Tier One any time soon.

As far as my personal experience with SH -- Professor are great. If you are looking for an atmosphere where professors are always available and leave their doors open and know your name, etc. then SH is the place to go. It is very student centered. It isn't perfect of course. Career Services could step it up a notch (although I do have a paid internship this summer as a 1L and they helped). Another thing to think about in terms of aesthetics and personal comfort is that SH is going to redo its cafeteria, bookstore, and student lounge over the summer.

I don't know as much about Rutgers, but there is as much info as I could give. They are both good schools. I don't know that it matters that much which one you go to in the long run. I feel like SH is more of a laid back atmosphere (although still competitive) and that Rutgers has more of an older crowd of students and is much less social.

Hope that helps.

Transferring / transfer by tier
« on: February 20, 2005, 10:06:29 AM »
Hi all. I have been reading a lot about transferring and I was wondering if anyone who has had experience with transferring could tell give me some input:
1. If you are at a Tier 2, are you completely out of the running for a top 20 school like GULC if you are in the top top 9%. I had read some posts stating that Tier 2 and up should be in the top 5%, and I had originally thought top 10% was the goal.

2. Do you think having another person from your current school who is ranked higher than you and who is applying to the same schools affect you? Or do you think some schools look at the whole package separately? I am unsure if they have only a certain number they'll take from a certain school.


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