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Messages - Lawprofessor

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3081
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: 1L's
« on: April 20, 2005, 04:58:41 PM »
Faith, your post is very much on point. Although a degree is just a piece of paper, it does open a lot of doors in our society and get folks to listen to what you have to say. My question is how can you help someone when your own business is not on point? In my eyes, you might end up dragging the person down instead of lifting them you know?

But if you take that mentality, when do you ever try to help because you are going to always be trying to get your business on point.

3082
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: 1L's
« on: April 20, 2005, 04:56:41 PM »
this is an interesting discussion and i agree that we need to continue to reach back and help others, thats how i was raised. i wanted to respond to sands perception of black people "caught in the numbers game" becoming apart of the "me, myself and i" mentality. i know i'm sensitive about this kind of stuff, but i disagree with that assessment of black folks who go to those "ranked" schools. one thing i will say for my education and my experience with black folks, the "me myself and i" mentality is everywhere, and i experienced it more from students i met from hbcu's and other "so-called" lower ranked schools than at my undergrad and some others who were similarly ranked. i don't know why i have those perceptions, but it comes from my personal experience. i have met dr. akbar, and i have heard him speak more than once. he has always said, go to the centers of knowledge here and take what they have, go to the centers of knowledge in the african world and learn that, then you will be empowered to help your people. i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me. i've been in many situations where white men/women have ignored what i said until i said i graduated from ... then the whole tone of the conversation changed. my hope is to use that for my community. and i know many more people who went to school with me who feel the same way. of course i have good friends who think like regal too, and its all good, do what you do. i just know that everything i have/will attain is built on the backs of the ancestors, so if one individual doesn't necessarily "want to improve themselves" (although i don't agree with that terminology), thats fine, i did my part, and i'll just reach out to the next person. sorry i wrote so much, i just think that there are plenty of people who play the #s game in order to help folks in the future as well. obama is only one very prominent example.

Don't apologize for the length, unless your talking nonsense  ;). But I feel where you're coming from, some black people have the me, myself, and I attitude no matter where they go to school. I see *some* (only a few) of it at my LS and I'm like, wtf?? What's that all about? But you best believe, when BLSA is having a party, or having outlining sessions and other similar things, they they first ones in line..... ::) I'm sure other people have seen this on a smaller scale in UG. Hell, look at Michael Jackson, he tried to literally become white, but as soon as all this legal trouble started it's because he's a black man, he's being persecuted like Nelson Mandela (still can't believe he said that  :() It's a mess girl. And of course, I say go to the best school for YOU. For the most part, I don't believe that anyone is discounting the seriousness of the system re: "prestigiousness" as it is today, my only issue comes in when black students don't want to give back, don't they realize that they are able to attend the "prestigious" institutions that they are b/c black people before them did just that! To me, it's shitting on that legacy........

Ladyday, you have said it all.  I dont have anything else to say.  Now watch, I am going to go and say something anyway.  That is me, you will get used to it.  I am not saying that you should go to a lesser school or a HBCU.  I am saying go to the school that you want to go to for whatever reasons you want.  Whether it is that is the only school you got in to, it is the highest ranked school you got in to, it is on the west/east coast.  What I am saying is that everyone makes their own decisions for them what school they want to go to and there is nothing wrong with that.  My problem is that you have people who are selfish, keep their outlines to themselves, study techniques kept to themselves, keeping things that are helpful to themselves, but the first time anyone else has anything they are the first in line to try to get it.  The problem with the "I" mentality is that while it might help you or at least you think it is helping you, it is really not.  Because think about it like this....if we never progress as a people, ultimately, you are the one that is hurt.  I just think we have to think in a broader way with more vision toward the future.  If you are only always thinking about yourself, how do you get the strength to ask for help when you are never willing to give help.  

3083
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: 1L's
« on: April 20, 2005, 03:40:18 PM »
I'm all about the "I" because "I" own you.  ::) 

Ahhhh, a comedian.  Well we will see how funny you are after your first semester of law school!!!   ;D

3084
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: 1L's
« on: April 20, 2005, 03:38:52 PM »
I think that this discussion board is a great assistance.  You are allowing 1Ls and pre law students to come and gain some knowledge from  your experience.  Keep reaching back and giving and it will soon catch on.  Here is an example of walking the walk and not just talking the talk.  When I was attending UF they had a trial team (and still do as far as I know).  I had many people of color come to me to assist them in making it on the team.  For some reason when I tried out, I didnt make it (2 times), yet at the same time I was able to assist two women get on.  They told others and one came to me the next semester and asked me to help her and I did and she made it on and then next thing I know, I had my hands full helping people.  One semester alone I had 10 students that were seeking help.  I helped each and every one of those students.  I could have done the easy thing and said, sorry, I have my own studies to worry about.  But I did not do that.  I took time away from my busy schedule and assisted those students every night they were trying out.  By the time I graduated, I had assisted somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-15 people of color on the trial team.  Prior to my attending UF there had only been 3 people of color in the history of the trial team.  Now the point of that story is to show that if one person can do that, imagine what 10, 100 or 1000 law students of color can do.  Pass the word and roll your sleeves up and start working because we have a LONG way to go.

3085
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: 1L's
« on: April 20, 2005, 02:59:51 PM »
Ahhh, but the problem is that too many of us dont feel the obligation to reach back and assist those coming behind us.  We live in the "I" world.  You know, what's good for me, is good for me.  I am not concerned about those around me and those that come after me.  My theory on that is, what is meant for me is meant for me, and it does not matter what you want to happen.  I can't be harmed by assisting you or someone else.  If I was meant to get the job at BigLaw, I will get it, and if I was not, I am not.  Remember, we are all going to take our own route to get to our ultimate destination and no one knows (no matter how much they think they know) what that route is going to be.  Hey, since we are quoting Spike......ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

I see that you're speaking both figuratively and personally, so are you condoning the "I" mentality or merely commenting on it here?

I condemn the "I" mentality.  Imagine if all the brothers and sisters that came before us had the "I got mines" mentatlity.  Neither you nor I would be where we are today. 

3086
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: 1L's
« on: April 20, 2005, 02:14:19 PM »
Ahhh, but the problem is that too many of us dont feel the obligation to reach back and assist those coming behind us.  We live in the "I" world.  You know, what's good for me, is good for me.  I am not concerned about those around me and those that come after me.  My theory on that is, what is meant for me is meant for me, and it does not matter what you want to happen.  I can't be harmed by assisting you or someone else.  If I was meant to get the job at BigLaw, I will get it, and if I was not, I am not.  Remember, we are all going to take our own route to get to our ultimate destination and no one knows (no matter how much they think they know) what that route is going to be.  Hey, since we are quoting Spike......ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

3087
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: 1L's
« on: April 20, 2005, 01:22:24 PM »


I'm sure H was paying back his loans though.

Maybe not, perhaps he deferred them. 

3088
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: 1L's
« on: April 20, 2005, 12:39:24 PM »
thanks Law Professor :).. and welcome to the boards.. what law school did u attend if you don't mind me asking?


Look at Obama Baraka ..he got offered big law jobs left and right.. turned them down for a 15K position in Chicago after finishing @ Harvard.. look @ him now!


Thank you.  Looks like lots of interesting discussions go on here.  I don't mind you asking and I attended the University of Florida.  You are right Obama could have accepted big law jobs but for his own reasons he determined that was not the path for him. 

3089
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: 1L's
« on: April 20, 2005, 12:05:31 PM »
I'm bored and it's early so I'll entertain the rankings debate for a second...

I have to say that I stand beside the National Association for Law School Placement (NALP) with their stance on law school rankings/ratings...


NALP does not rank law schools and discourages the use of rating systems or rank-ordered lists in evaluating law schools and their graduates for employment. Law schools are defined by many different, yet often interrelated, characteristics whose significance and relationship at a particular school may vary from year to year. No rigid ranking of law schools can quantify the subjective value of the education available at each school.


Now according to US News & World report.. rankings aren't solely determined by the Big Law partners (I was asked this question last night and couldn't provide a definitive answer before researching it)

For the five graduate program areas with the largest enrollments–business, education, engineering, law, and medicine–we use a combination of statistical data and expert assessment data. The statistical data we collect include both input and output measures. Input measures reflect the quality of students, faculty, and other resources brought to the education process. Output measures signal an institution's success in managing that process so graduates achieve desired results, such as passing the bar exam or getting a high-paying job offer.

The expert assessment data for these areas come from surveys of knowledgeable individuals in academia and practitioners in each profession. Survey respondents are asked to rate the programs with which they are familiar on a scale of "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5).

Statistical and assessment data are standardized about their means, and standardized scores are weighted, totaled, and rescaled so that the top score is 100 and other scores are expressed as whole percentages of the top score. Schools are then ranked by their rescaled score.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/faq_meth_brief.php#six


taken from prelaw handbook..

CRITERIA USED TO DETERMINE
THE RANKING OF THE
TOP PRESTIGIOUS LAW SCHOOLS


-Peer Assessment                   10%
-Lawyer and Judges Assessment      10%
-Assessment of University          20%
-UGPA Twenty-fifth Percentile       5%
-UGPA Seventy-fifth Percentile     10%
-LSAT Twenty-fifth Percentile    8.33%
-LSAT Seventy-fifth Percentile  16.67%
-EQR Faculty Quality Rankings      20%

so.. i guess the only question for me Sands  is.. where does it say that US' methodology grants 40% of a law school's rank to subjectivity from lawyers whom it selects to ask? was this assessment limited to the realm of IP law?

At the end of the day I think that the whole ratings game is what causes the most stress amongst law school applicants.. Just embrace the experience.. and go to the law school that YOU want to go to.. factor in the variables that are important to you.. it's your decision and you're the one that has to live with the path that you've chosen..

i've elaborated more on my personal experience here. http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,25605.0.html


Blk_reign_esq I agree with you about making the decision on what school that you want to attend.  Ultimately, the person is going to dictate their own success both in law school and after.  Everyone needs to make the decision about what is in their own best interest.  Going to the highest ranked law school is not what is always in everyone's best interest.  I know a state circuit court in Maryland who got accepted to Harvard many years ago and turned them down to attend the U of Maryland.  Harvard threw a bucket of money at him and he still turned them down.  He made the decision that he did not want to move his family.  Rightly or wrongly for everyone else, it was the right decision for him.  And at the end, everyone has to make their own decisions because they have to live with the consequences.

3090
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: 1L's
« on: April 19, 2005, 07:26:01 PM »
Yeah put the casebook away. Some of us are not in law school yet so we wouldn't have ANY idea what you are trying to convey.


Edit: Sands I think you logic is off to assume that certain schools are ranked so high because of the whole "big law factory" theory. Alumni, facilities, facility, and bar passage rates are also things to consider regardless if you follow the US New Reports or not.

OH yeah BTW SANDS...I'm interested in INTERNATIONAL LAW...and Columbia is one of the top two schools in the country for preparing their students for a career in that field. Not everyone desires to go the big law route. Being a successful attorney isn't all about making bank and shuffling papers in some corner office. If that is what people are looking forward too, then I feel really bad for them b/c they are going to be miserable.

FYI: Boalt, Stanford, and George Washington have the premiere IP programs in the country.


I have been in law school and I dont understand what he was trying to convey.
Nah, just kidding.

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