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Messages - bobwil50

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11
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: NYLS
« on: May 08, 2006, 06:21:57 PM »
New York Law School sounds a hell of a lot more official than Columbia.

No kidding, who wants to learn the law at a school named after a third world country?

12
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: NYLS
« on: May 08, 2006, 06:17:47 PM »

Okay, this has got to be a flame. 


You're quick.

13
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: NYLS
« on: May 08, 2006, 06:10:38 PM »
Apparently all the Columbia trolls are pouncing on NYLS, what do they have to gain from this?  If NYLS is so insignificant, why are you prestige-whores so intent on bashing it?  Perhaps you are insecure about something.  Perhaps it is the fact that outgoing and extroverted NYLS grads will be pwning all the socially inept geeks that managed to score well on some insignificant test!  Do you really have to keep reminding yourselves that you are superior?  The law schools students who aren't obsessed with the number associated with their school will lead happier, healthy lives.  And they may be just as smart as you, but chose to attend a school for a myriad of different reasons.  Someone that turns down NYLS for Columbia simply because of a number is too dense to be truly happy with his life. 

I hate to chime in now that this conversation has degenerated, but I feel I must. There are so many factors that will determine the success of a person's career it is impossible to factor them all in. Does it help to go to a better school? Yes. However, the number one factor in gaining successful employment is personal and networking skills.

Therefore, if you don't have those kinds of skills going to a better school is all the more important. If you are gregarious, outgoing and have a good social network established, then the school is almost irrelevant.

The only time a school name will come in handy is if you intend to teach. If so, the big names become valuable because so many high-scoring LSN/D applicants mistake Tier 25 degrees for excellence. In order to lure those applicants they load their faculty with big names.


Right on!  These overachievers are missing out on great opportuinities at lower-ranked schools.  For example, a SMU grad nearly got onto the Supreme Court, and she didn't go to a precious T14 school.  Everyone has his own version of success, and those of us whose version does not include where our firm falls in the V100 (or if it's in the V100 period!) will be much better off in the long run.

What is this nonsense?  The only person pouncing on NYLS is going to Fordham. 

Um, both you and Stevejd are going to Columbia.

And I "pounced" on NYLS where, exactly?

You and Steve are both being incredibly elitist.  That attitude will get you nowhere in the field of law.

You're going to have to back up that assertion. 

Haven't you every read a John Grisham book?  The scrappy, hard-working, everyman's lawyer usually defeats the elitists.

14
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: NYLS
« on: May 08, 2006, 06:04:44 PM »
Apparently all the Columbia trolls are pouncing on NYLS, what do they have to gain from this?  If NYLS is so insignificant, why are you prestige-whores so intent on bashing it?  Perhaps you are insecure about something.  Perhaps it is the fact that outgoing and extroverted NYLS grads will be pwning all the socially inept geeks that managed to score well on some insignificant test!  Do you really have to keep reminding yourselves that you are superior?  The law schools students who aren't obsessed with the number associated with their school will lead happier, healthy lives.  And they may be just as smart as you, but chose to attend a school for a myriad of different reasons.  Someone that turns down NYLS for Columbia simply because of a number is too dense to be truly happy with his life. 

I hate to chime in now that this conversation has degenerated, but I feel I must. There are so many factors that will determine the success of a person's career it is impossible to factor them all in. Does it help to go to a better school? Yes. However, the number one factor in gaining successful employment is personal and networking skills.

Therefore, if you don't have those kinds of skills going to a better school is all the more important. If you are gregarious, outgoing and have a good social network established, then the school is almost irrelevant.

The only time a school name will come in handy is if you intend to teach. If so, the big names become valuable because so many high-scoring LSN/D applicants mistake Tier 25 degrees for excellence. In order to lure those applicants they load their faculty with big names.


Right on!  These overachievers are missing out on great opportuinities at lower-ranked schools.  For example, a SMU grad nearly got onto the Supreme Court, and she didn't go to a precious T14 school.  Everyone has his own version of success, and those of us whose version does not include where our firm falls in the V100 (or if it's in the V100 period!) will be much better off in the long run.

What is this nonsense?  The only person pouncing on NYLS is going to Fordham. 

Um, both you and Stevejd are going to Columbia.

And I "pounced" on NYLS where, exactly?

You and Steve are both being incredibly elitist.  That attitude will get you nowhere in the field of law.

15
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: NYLS
« on: May 08, 2006, 05:55:32 PM »
Apparently all the Columbia trolls are pouncing on NYLS, what do they have to gain from this?  If NYLS is so insignificant, why are you prestige-whores so intent on bashing it?  Perhaps you are insecure about something.  Perhaps it is the fact that outgoing and extroverted NYLS grads will be pwning all the socially inept geeks that managed to score well on some insignificant test!  Do you really have to keep reminding yourselves that you are superior?  The law schools students who aren't obsessed with the number associated with their school will lead happier, healthy lives.  And they may be just as smart as you, but chose to attend a school for a myriad of different reasons.  Someone that turns down NYLS for Columbia simply because of a number is too dense to be truly happy with his life. 

I hate to chime in now that this conversation has degenerated, but I feel I must. There are so many factors that will determine the success of a person's career it is impossible to factor them all in. Does it help to go to a better school? Yes. However, the number one factor in gaining successful employment is personal and networking skills.

Therefore, if you don't have those kinds of skills going to a better school is all the more important. If you are gregarious, outgoing and have a good social network established, then the school is almost irrelevant.

The only time a school name will come in handy is if you intend to teach. If so, the big names become valuable because so many high-scoring LSN/D applicants mistake Tier 25 degrees for excellence. In order to lure those applicants they load their faculty with big names.


Right on!  These overachievers are missing out on great opportuinities at lower-ranked schools.  For example, a SMU grad nearly got onto the Supreme Court, and she didn't go to a precious T14 school.  Everyone has his own version of success, and those of us whose version does not include where our firm falls in the V100 (or if it's in the V100 period!) will be much better off in the long run.

What is this nonsense?  The only person pouncing on NYLS is going to Fordham. 

Um, both you and Stevejd are going to Columbia.

16
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: NYLS
« on: May 08, 2006, 05:49:56 PM »
Apparently all the Columbia trolls are pouncing on NYLS, what do they have to gain from this?  If NYLS is so insignificant, why are you prestige-whores so intent on bashing it?  Perhaps you are insecure about something.  Perhaps it is the fact that outgoing and extroverted NYLS grads will be pwning all the socially inept geeks that managed to score well on some insignificant test!  Do you really have to keep reminding yourselves that you are superior?  The law schools students who aren't obsessed with the number associated with their school will lead happier, healthy lives.  And they may be just as smart as you, but chose to attend a school for a myriad of different reasons.  Someone that turns down NYLS for Columbia simply because of a number is too dense to be truly happy with his life.  

I hate to chime in now that this conversation has degenerated, but I feel I must. There are so many factors that will determine the success of a person's career it is impossible to factor them all in. Does it help to go to a better school? Yes. However, the number one factor in gaining successful employment is personal and networking skills.

Therefore, if you don't have those kinds of skills going to a better school is all the more important. If you are gregarious, outgoing and have a good social network established, then the school is almost irrelevant.

The only time a school name will come in handy is if you intend to teach. If so, the big names become valuable because so many high-scoring LSN/D applicants mistake Tier 25 degrees for excellence. In order to lure those applicants they load their faculty with big names.


Right on!  These overachievers are missing out on great opportuinities at lower-ranked schools.  For example, a SMU grad nearly got onto the Supreme Court, and she didn't go to a precious T14 school.  Everyone has his own version of success, and those of us whose version does not include where our firm falls in the V100 (or if it's in the V100 period!) will be much better off in the long run.

17
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: NYLS
« on: May 07, 2006, 12:28:42 AM »

Actually, although the black letter law is the same everywhere, in general the higher up you go in the rankings the more theoretical classes start to become. 

You think this is some sort of an advantage?  The students at T3 and T4 should thank their lucky stars that they don't have to listen to some liberal egghead lecture to them with their "theories."  I would rather learn how to actually practice law than to be bored to death over competing ideas of what reasonableness means.


I guess it depends on what you find "boring."  Personally I'm much more interested in various competing interpretations of first ammendment doctrines, or how tax/securities law can be used to mold public policy and placate competing interests from some "liberal egghead lecturer," rather than pure black letter law to pass the bar which I can learn from a week long BarBri course.


Well then maybe you can become one of those egghead professors yourself!

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Forget about that though, if I had to venture a guess on why employers value one school over another I'd say its predominantly two reasons:

1) They think that the students at a school like Fordham are in general "better" than NYLS, and recruit based on that assumption.
2) There is prejudice.  In other words if you are a hiring partner, or just a partner, or hell even just a senior associate who went to lets say, UVA, and you are interviewing people, won't you naturally give preference to people from UVA?  Well guess what there are a lot more people with influence at firms and other organizations from UVA than NYLS....

Those reasons could be wrong, but regardless of the reasons its pretty well established fact that your career prospects from this school are not at the level of say Fordham.


And those UVA students who are swimming in debt and thoroughly confused by all this "theory" will be significantly outperformed by the students that can't coast because they think they went to a "name" school.

Swimming in debt?  UVA is no more expensive than NYLS - in fact it is likely cheaper once COL is accounted for.

UVA students will be outperformed in what way exactly?  Maybe you can find a study that shows that NYLS grads with their own practice do better than UVA grads with their own practice?  Even if such a study exists, and even if it shows NYLS grads doing better, the fact is that the vast majority of UVA grads will be working at jobs that NYLS grads can't even interview for.  Is this fair?  That isn't my place to judge.  Does this make sense?  Again not my place.  I'm just stating facts...do you honestly think that NYLS places on a comparable level with UVA?

Well they certainly place on a comparable level in public defender offices, state goverments jobs, and personal injury firms.  I think those numbers speak for themselves.  And before you start whining about how unpresigious those jobs are, maybe you should reevaluate your life.  Those folks will be standing up for the little guy while you are whoring yourself to corporate interests.  And even if they do seek firm jobs, I think that anyone who works hard enough and makes the right connections can get them.  After you get your first job, no one cares what your degree says.  I think you need to stop placing so much value on all these external indicators and take a good look at yourself.  Columbia, indeed...

18
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: NYLS
« on: May 07, 2006, 12:01:09 AM »

Actually, although the black letter law is the same everywhere, in general the higher up you go in the rankings the more theoretical classes start to become. 

You think this is some sort of an advantage?  The students at T3 and T4 should thank their lucky stars that they don't have to listen to some liberal egghead lecture to them with their "theories."  I would rather learn how to actually practice law than to be bored to death over competing ideas of what reasonableness means.

Quote

Forget about that though, if I had to venture a guess on why employers value one school over another I'd say its predominantly two reasons:

1) They think that the students at a school like Fordham are in general "better" than NYLS, and recruit based on that assumption.
2) There is prejudice.  In other words if you are a hiring partner, or just a partner, or hell even just a senior associate who went to lets say, UVA, and you are interviewing people, won't you naturally give preference to people from UVA?  Well guess what there are a lot more people with influence at firms and other organizations from UVA than NYLS....

Those reasons could be wrong, but regardless of the reasons its pretty well established fact that your career prospects from this school are not at the level of say Fordham.


And those UVA students who are swimming in debt and thoroughly confused by all this "theory" will be significantly outperformed by the students that can't coast because they think they went to a "name" school.

19
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: NYLS
« on: May 06, 2006, 11:40:12 PM »
I think that most of the posters on here are being overwhelmingly negative.  I hope this is not indicative of their general demeanor, because a positive attitude will take you much farther than a high LSAT score.  The OP worked hard enough to get accepted to law school, but apparently that isnít sufficient for some of the prestige-whores that troll this site.  Perhaps someone can convince me otherwise, but I believe that students at NYLS are taught the same law as those at HYS, no?  If that is the case, then I fail to understand why employers would value a degree from one school over another simply because it is ranked higher by some unscrupulous magazine trying to turn a profit.

Btw, my cousinís boyfriend goes to NYLS and he told me that he has excellent career prospects.  He just got an offer from one of the most prestigious firms in Manhattan, so the snobs on this board can put that in their pipe and smoke it.  Granted, my cousinís father is the hiring partner, but I doubt that really had anything to do with it.

20
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Need help re: GULC vs. GW
« on: April 28, 2006, 01:18:55 PM »
Even given that, I'd go to GULC in a heart-beat. Georgetown Law, outside of those in the know, is thought to be one of the best law schools in the country. And for those IN the know, it still is! (although not as highly ranked as other top schools, obviously).

I got into both those schools and visited both and I would have taken Georgetown even over a full ride to GW. At GULC you know, unless you totally mess up, you can get a great job at anywhere. At GW if you aren't at the very top of your class its hard to get a job outside of DC and you have to finish higher up in your class to get jobs generally offered to GULC grads.

The very top of your class?  Top 1/3 at GW will do better than bottom half at GULC.

While I agree that GW is not as well regarded as GULC, to go to GULC over GW with a full ride is flat out stupid and means daddy is likely paying for your legal education, or, you have no idea how much it will suck making $1000/month loan payments for ten years.

But what about my specific situation of 15k a year?

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