Law School Discussion

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Messages - Maclock

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71
What was your game plan for applying to these schools? Waitlisted at Northwestern and accepted at Southwestern? You must write an awesome personal statement. You should go to Southwestern if you want to practice in California, and Kansas if you want to practice anywhere else. Another thing to think about, if you do well at SW you can probably transfer to USC. A friend of mine transferred to SC after kicking ass at SW for a year. Best of luck either way!

Many thanks for your reply. 

To answer your question, I am a graduate of a foreign law school and am interested in securing a J.D. to practice in the States.  To that end, I deliberately restricted my applications to schools that have two-year accelerated programs for graduates of foreign law schools (among which Kansas and Northwestern are included) and to schools that would otherwise allow me to complete the full J.D. curriculum in two years (which the SCALE program at Southwestern allows me to do).  To be perfectly blunt about it, I have neither the finances nor the appetite to withstand a full three years of study at an American law school.

Apparently, to be attractive to big firms from coast-to-coast in the States, one needs to graduate from Kansas in the top 10% of his or her class.  Having already graduated from one law school, I can assure people on this message board that such an achievement is easier said than done!

C'mon Northwestern!

Rgds.,
M.

72
Wait List / Northwestern Waitlist
« on: June 24, 2005, 12:14:48 AM »
Is anyone reading this message aware of recent movement on the Northwestern waitlist?  The wait is killing me....

M.

73
Anyone else?

M.

74
I would be surprised if the powers that be at Harvard change their minds regarding the disposition of your application.  That being said, if you're desperate to go there, you may not have a whole lot to lose.  I fear that you may appear to be obviously desperate to them, however, and that may do nothing at all to advance your cause. 

Is this a power-thing?  If your avatar is generally representative of your form, you are likely a very attractive woman and may be used to getting your way.  You would do well to note that this matter may be beyond your control.

And I must say that I agree with others on this board that you have been accepted to some very fine law schools and that you might not be well-advised to sit out a year in the hope of getting into Harvard next year.

Is this flame?  ;-)  Too much Legally Blonde, anyone?

M.

Lol, I only harassed them once since I received their rejection letter.  I wrote a letter telling them they're making a BIG mistake rejecting me and about a hundred reasons why I want to go there.



I think that you should not send anymore letters to them. They have rejected you for this cycle, there is a point at which you become psycho/obsessed and it seems like you are at that point.
 See if they send you anything else, if not start to make plans for your future. I would not harrass them anymore this year!!

75
Many thanks for your reply!

Reputation and the desirability of my degree are of primary importance to me, so that's why I'm PRAYING for Northwestern.  Lawrence looks like a pretty cool little college town, and the faculty and staff seem to be extremely friendly, but I know that these things shouldn't be the primary factors informing my choice.

Thanks again!

M.

76
Where should I go next fall? / University of Kansas vs. Southwestern
« on: June 15, 2005, 09:04:12 PM »
Ideas on where I should go, people?  I had thought that Kansas was a whole lot more prestigious that it appears to be, so I am unsure whether it will serve me any better when looking for work than attending Southwestern.  If the buzz is to be believed, however, the jobs (if offered) coming out of Southwestern are decidedly sub-par.

I am also on the waitlists at Rutgers-Newark, Northwestern and the University of Miami.  If I get into Northwestern, I'm off like a shot.

(The collection of schools is decidedly mixed because I deliberately restricted my applications to law schools that would give me advance standing for my LL.B., or, in the case of Southwestern, would grant me admission to the SCALE program, so that I could finish a J.D. in two years.)

So, Kansas vs. Southwestern.  What are your thoughts?

Many thanks for your replies,
M.

77
Where should I go next fall? / University of Kansas
« on: June 02, 2005, 02:28:25 PM »
Anyone, anyone?  For a lawyer interested in practicing oil and gas law, would the University of Kansas be a terrible choice?  I get the impression that it is an under-rated school (for instance, Brian Leiter would seem to suggest that it is well-regarded by other law schools; see http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2005/04/top_producers_o.html for more information), but I also think that getting any kind of Biglaw job out of there may be next to impossible unless you are in the top 5-10% of the class.  (Hiring partners likely do not have it on their radar.)

Lawrence also looks like such a livable city....

For the moment, all Texas and Louisiana schools are out of the question for me.

Thoughts, anyone?

Thanks,
M.

78
Oh Canada! / Re: small school vs large school?
« on: May 31, 2005, 12:31:15 PM »
Maclock ... please learn to be more concise.

"Canada is not as egaltarian as the lefties that run this country would have you believe."

-lol.
 

I am glad that I could make you chuckle, Cheeks!  If you think that I am a circumlocutionist, wait until you see the ways in which your soon-to-be peers at the bar mangle, twist and manipulate the English language into all kinds of unnatural shapes; shapes that you will not be able to recognize.  Whooo-wheee, son, now THAT'S funny!

M.

79
Oh Canada! / Re: small school vs large school?
« on: May 30, 2005, 01:16:57 PM »
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.  I guess my problem is that I'm not looking for big money in TO..I'm not looking to go to a school where the competition is unreal and the tuition is 25000$ a year with no guarantee of future employment of the calibre that such a loan is paid back in a reasonable amount of time.  Ideally, for right now, I would like to go into family law.. eventually become a family law judge if all goes wonderfully (which of course, it may not)  Do you think that one of the larger schools is still more appropriorate for my goals?  Any help would be great. :)

O.K., at the expense of sounding like an old coot, I must advise you to be realistic about your goals.  Becoming a judge has more to do with being in the good books of a political party that assumes power in whatever jurisdiction in which you practice than with whether you are, for instance, a family law guru.  It's a sad, but true, fact of life.  That being said, there are some excellent judges out there appointed by their political buddies, but there are some slugs, too.

Even for family law, I think that the perceived prestige of a lawyer's alma mater can be of vital importance.  Remember, seriously wealthy people get divorced, too, and they will pay for quality counsel from what they perceive to the best law firm around.  Sometimes, this will be the law firm that handles other legal matters for a given person's company.  Most big shops keep on staff a few lawyers interested in criminal law and family law for this purpose.  These same firms may not be particularly interested in such areas of the law, but they certainly are interested in keeping as much business in the firm as they can and they are interested in pleasing the client.  The trick is, however, that it is likely going to be much easier to be hired by a prestigious firm to do such work if you have attended what has traditionally been considered to be a prestigious law school.

And as for not being interested in the money that Bay Street has to offer, well, I used to think that way, too, but believe me, when you get out in the rough and tumble reality of practice, having the money and whatnot offered by the big Bay Street firms at your disposal makes a HUGE difference.  Money is a good thing, whatever others might try to tell you.

You are rightly concerned about high tuition fees, but I wish to add that you should really consider this an investment in your future, an investment that will pay dividends for decades to come.

On the subject of competition, I would imagine that every law school has its share of hyper-competitive gimps; that's just the nature of the beast.  People are going to be like that anywhere they've got on their "A game".

I wish to caution that as I never practiced family law and have never had any interest in doing so, I may be inadvertantly feeding you some falsehoods.  Caveat emptor, etc.  Should you have any other questions that you would like answered, please feel free to ask away.

M.

80
Oh Canada! / Re: small school vs large school?
« on: May 30, 2005, 12:20:21 PM »
law firms prefer good schools...

A tad harsh, I am afraid.  Other than U of T, Osgoode and McGill, Canadian law schools are, more than likely, relatively comparable to one another in quality.  However, I think that these same schools are more likely to place better in local markets than they would clear across the country.  Does that mean that these schools are, by necessary implication, "bad"?  No, it does not; it simply means that law firms only recognize a handful of Canadian law schools as being nationally prestigious and placement rates in, for instance, the big shops on Bay Street reflect that fact.

Admittedly, some schools that are coasting on their names, like Dal, still place reasonably well on Bay Street, but that has more to do with the fact that more than a few senior partners went to Dal (or whichever school) back in the day when it was considered every bit the equal of Osgoode, McGill and U of T, than it does with Dal (or whichever school) being considered one of Canada's top schools.  (For that matter, some might argue that Osgoode is also coasting undeservedly on its past glory.)

I had a couple of friends at UNB study on exchange at Ontario law schools, one at Western and the other at Osgoode, and they both seemed to think that UNB compared well with these Ontario schools, for instance.  However, UNB's name power does, no doubt, pale in comparision with any of Western, Osgoode or U of T when competing for the Holy Grail of many Canadian law school students' lives: articles with a big Bay Street firm.  It's depressing how provincial the Canadian mindset can be from time-to-time.

So, a small school that places primarily in its region will have a smaller network upon which to draw when seeking to place its students.  If that network is smaller, in absolute terms, and is in an area that is not filthy, stinking rich, then students may stuggle to find decent articling positions.  Unless they are near the top of their class, these same students are more than likely going to find it tough to crack Bay Street unless they have some highly prized pre-law school work experience and/or good contacts on Bay Street.  (Perhaps a small school like Calgary, which is often not accorded the highest degree of respect and is certainly not considered the equal of McGill, U of T or Osgoode, might fare better than places like UVic, UNB, USask and the University of Manitoba at placing its grads in decent articling jobs if only because it is the only law school in Calgary, Canada's hottest legal market right now.  Similarly, the proximity of Western to Toronto, and the fact that it is known to the denizens of Bay Street as a decent law school, likely helps Western quite a bit when placing its grads in T.O.)

So, to that end, I would think that prospective Canadian law students might best be advised to go to the most prestigious law school to which they are admitted.  Sadly, many good Canadian law schools are not considered prestigious, and placement rates in the highest paid articling jobs in Canada (which jobs, in turn, dictate how many doors will be open to you later on in life) reflect that fact.  Canada is not as egaltarian as the lefties that run this country would have you believe.

M.

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