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Messages - Maclock

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A lot of Yankees go down to Miami for school so it is only natural that quite a few of them find their way back up north.

Actually, I looked at TX and CA as I want warmth and a chance to practice oil and gas law, if I can get it.  I also checked AK and CO, but that was because of the opportunity to practice oil and gas law and not for warmth, obviously!

As I said, I just did a Martindale-Hubbell search and was surprised to see that a Miami degree seemed to travel further and to better firms.  (Not that many Miami grads are working in oil and gas, mind you.)  I may be deluding myself here, as perhaps Rutgers-Newark and Kansas simply attract more local boys and girls who don't want to move too far from home.

Thanks for your reply,


It might appear on the surface that the Rutgers degree does not travel very well. But I think in reality, the graduates are not interested in traveling outside of the NYC, NJ,Philly, DC area. If you are in close proximity to some of the largest legal markets, why try to transport your degree cross coast to the Midwest or the west coast? I think the locality of Rutgers graduates may be a reflection of personal choice and not a reflection of a lack of name recognition.

I had, of course, thought about that, too, and further thought that the dispersion of Miami grads across the country might have more to do with large classes of graduates being pumped out of Miami and a soft/saturated local legal market not being able to handle all of the grads from the University of Miami than with a Miami degree travelling better.  After all, people need to work!  All these suppositions, however, may not be vaild at all, and so I come in search of the truth.  Does anyone know how well these degrees will travel?

And I know that there are some wonderful legal markets in the North-east, but having grown up in a snowy wasteland, I would like to take my J.D. somewhere sunny, warm, safe and prosperous!   ;)

Many thanks for your reply, though!  As noted, I had thought something similar, but would like to know how a J.D. from Rutgers is actually received outside of the North-east (as opposed to reasons why Rutgers grads are not well-represented on the West Coast, for example).  Please excuse me if this sounds "chippy"; that's not my intention at all.  The Internet is a lousy means of communicating subtlety, nuance, etc.

Anecdotal evidence seemed to indicate that Miami grads end up working in better firms in large markets far removed from Miami. This may have more to do with the fact that Rutgers grads, to the extent that they want to work in fancy firms, stay in their own backyard, though.

All the best,

Unfortunately, none of the schools you have listed really travel all that well nationally.  Of the three you listed, Miami and Rutgers may carry the best, but to expect anything outside of the usual catchment area is wishful thinking

I agree with the poster above.  One difference that might be beneficial to you though as a foreign student is the proximity of Rutgers to NYC.  NYC firms do recruit at Rutgers, and that type of work experience might help your degree travel a bit farther a few years down the road.

Of course, you probably need to be top 20% at Rutgers to get a good NYC gig.


Thanks for your thoughts.

Top 20% at Rutgers-Newark for NYC, huh?  Wow.  Based on my own experience in law school abroad, I can tell ya that this can be quite difficult.


Unfortunately, none of the schools you have listed really travel all that well nationally.  Of the three you listed, Miami and Rutgers may carry the best, but to expect anything outside of the usual catchment area is wishful thinking

Many thanks for your reply. 

I looked into the matter myself using Martindale-Hubbell and was somewhat surprised to see that a degree from Miami seems to travel better than a degree from either Rutgers or Kansas.  I was of the impression that both Rutgers and Kansas were, historically speaking, thought to be better schools.  [The plunge of Kansas in the USN&WR rankings has more to do with incomplete data regarding placement rates, salaries, etc., than anything to do with the quality of the school itself.  It was, until recently, somewhere in the mid-60s (or maybe the mid-70s), I believe, and has now plunged overnight to 100.  Nothing short of a data screw-up can explain such a precipitous drop.]

I fear that you may be right, however; making any of these degrees fly outside of the catchment areas for these schools could well be a difficult task.


Having pretty much been told that I will not be getting in off the waitlist at Northwestern, I must now try to decide amongst Kansas, the University of Miami and Rutgers-Newark. I have been accepted at Kansas and am trying to get in off the waitlists at Miami and Rutgers-Newark. (I have also been accepted at Southwestern, but the universally negative things that I have heard about that place have put me off attending.)

I am a graduate of a foreign law school and deliberately focused my applications on places that will give me one year of advance standing for my LL.B. This is why the collection of schools mentioned in this posting is, well, eclectic, to say the least.

While I would have had no worries about how well a degree from Northwestern would travel, I know that I will have to rock it out from the other schools that I am now forced to contemplate to assure that my J.D. will be well-received across the States. Having already completed one law degree, I can assure you that finishing in the top 10-20% of one's class is no simple feat! All things being equal, assuming that I finish in the top-third to top-half of my class at any of these schools, which degree will travel best?

Many thanks for your replies!


Wait List / Re: Northwestern Waitlist
« on: June 25, 2005, 11:41:22 PM »
Anyone else?


Wait List / Re: Northwestern Waitlist
« on: June 24, 2005, 04:45:44 PM »
I just got an e-mail and I got in! I am like shaking right now, I can not believe it. No matter what anyone says, writing in does help! OMG, I was stressing so much about going to NY and wondering whether I could get a job in California, but this is like a dream come true. Thank you, law school admission gods! :)


Congrats!  That's wonderful news!  While I have yet to receive a letter informing me of the disposition of my application, I have been informed that the waitlist is to close in the very near future.    When pressed to clarify whether that means that no more people will be getting in off the waitlist, I was told that is decidedly the case.

Best of luck,

Wait List / Re: Northwestern Waitlist
« on: June 24, 2005, 11:32:41 AM »
The due date for all of the waitlist confirmations was June 30. Plus, I know that some people just retook the LSAT hoping to better their chances. My guess is that there won't be any movement until July.

Thanks for your reply!


Let everyone know that they are your first choice and you will attend if taken off the wait-list. If you go to Kansas, I highly doubt lawyers from NYC will come out to interview the best candidates. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it happening. The closer you are to where you want to work, the better. Best of luck!

Right you are, Faure!  I don't think that any more than a few large firms from major markets will turn up for on-campus interviews at Kansas, but with a good transcript, some networking and a few plane tickets, I suspect that the very best graduates from Kansas can expect to have a crack at major markets like NYC.

We are agreed, however, that once a law school is perceived to be regional, it may be easier simply to attend a law school in the region where one wants to work.  To pretend otherwise is fiction.

Kind regards,

I think you need to think more about regional preference here.  Most of these schools are regional, and will place best in their specfic areas.

The first thing to do is lobby NU and Miami to get in off their waitlists.  Make clear that they're (both) your first-choice school, and that you'll attend if admitted. (Yes, a little disingenuous, but good strategy.) 

Unless you want to work in L.A., I'd focus on Miami.  It's a cool, international city, and is probably close to home for you, relatively speaking.  The school itself has a strong rep in the area.

Otherwise, I'd go with SW, as I think both Kansas and SW will keep you in the region, and I'm assuming you'd prefer to work in L.A. than Kansas.  However, this is obviously a personal preference.

Many thanks for your reply, Blogger!

The University of Miami does seem to be a rather nice place to study, but what is the greater Miami area like?  From what I have seen of crime stats for the Miami area, I have a hard time believing that the vast majority of violent crime is contained in a few neighbourhoods.  I cannot stress enough how much I loathe such crime....

Is Miami any less a regional school than Rutgers-Newark?  I get the impression that both Miami and Rutgers-Newark might open a few doors in NYC for grads in, say, the top 10% of their class at either school, but after that, I think that the appeal of such candidates would be purely regional.  No offence to the people of Florida, but Miami would have to be one cool city to inspire me to live there; I have friends and family in the Tampa Bay area, and I find that, Florida's second metropolitan area, to be simply awful.  And don't even get me started on the Panhandle and those parts of Florida given over to the religious right.  I don't generally feel comfortable around "true believers."

Kind regards,

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