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Messages - jomolungma

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Current Law Students / Re: Who here actually likes the law?
« on: April 06, 2005, 11:18:01 AM »
I haven't started law school yet, so I know I'm not the best to answer this, but as someone who is 29 and is choosing to go into law school after a successful career in the military and private sector, I can say that I'm not going to school for money, prestige, grades, etc.  I'm going to law school because I enjoy what in my not-so-informed mind is the law.  I've worked with JAG attorneys and currently work everyday with L&T attorneys in NYC.  While I don't want to be an L&T attorney, and JAG is no longer an option, I like what I've seen and learned about their daily work and the issues that they work on.  My own personal reading into things like criminal prosecution and civil litigation has further enhanced my appreciation for lawyers and the work they do, and has influenced my decision to pursue a law career.

All this may, and probably will, change when I'm in law school.  I fully expect to hate it at times, question my life choices and daily decision-making, and generally feel miserable.  But I'm open to that and I think I want a law career bad enough to fight through it.  If not, I'll move in a different direction.  I think that knowing is half the battle, so we'll see.

Just so everyone doesn't think I'm a fuddy duddy, my anniversary is coming up this July and I will be doing lots of relaxing and partying with my wife.  I won't have a single law-related book with me.  But since I've known I was going to law school for the last year or so I had to do something with that time, right?  I didn't have my senior year of undergrad to distract me.

I've read PLS II and was planning to get a couple of the others you mentioned.

What I was actually asking was what texts/supplementals would people recommend for all the 1L courses? e.g., Torts, Property, etc.

There is a list in Law School Confidential that's pretty good.  I've found the Examples and Explanations for CivPro and Torts helpful, easy to read, but they aren't all by the same author so they differ...

Different things work for different people. I have done very well so far in law school, and did nothing to prep for it. If your goal is to get great grades and parlay that into a good attorney position, then I strongly feel reading excessive amounts of material before starting law school is superfluous. All law schools operate differently and all Profs teach different material in different ways and expect different things from exams. The best way to achieve this is simply doing the work while in law school. Many people I know suffered greatly because they relied too heavily on commercial outlines which generalize the law into black letter rules. 

I agree with what you're saying, which is why I tried to make a point of stating that I wasn't studying, just reading.  I read West Nutshell's on the subway.  I've read an E&E or two and a couple of Law School Confidential type books.  All of this reading was spread out over the course of 15 months.  In addition, I work in NYC housing court everyday, with three law students and a group of experienced L&T attorneys.  We talk, I learn.  I'm not tied to any assumptions or principles of learning, and I'm completely open to the uniqueness of my professor's teaching.  However, I know some of the issues involved with jurisdiction, and I can spell collateral estoppel.  I know what the letter K refers to, what the MPC is, and the names of a bunch of different crimes.  As a former English teacher and Internet developer that's more than I knew when I started and it can't hurt to know when I get to school.

ur burnout argument is baseless. obviously u have no idea what ur talking about. ur argument rests on the false assumption that law school is like the practice of law. the reason burnout happens is because law school is A LOT MORE INTENSIVE THAN THE PRACICE OF LAW. in law school, u have memos, outlining, oral arguments to prepare for, all while still preparing for class which takes 4 -5 hours a night. i could go on, but im just f'n beat from all the work law school is throwin at me.

dude, get over it... if it's that tough, leave... dropout... cry... do something other than be another one of the many whiners and complainers... i happen to work with lawyers everyday... i also have several in my family who come home late at night and are barely seen on weekends... but they do it because they accept the tradeoffs... you want a law degree, accept the tradeoffs...

i don't think how much someone studies has a direct correlation to how well they do... different strokes for different folks... i know quite a few students who studied themselves sick and then bombed due to test anxiety... i know others that took three-day weekends throughout 1L and made law review... i personally have no idea what will work for me, i'll figure it out... my previous post was simply stating that there are other options to blowing off your summer before school, and if you take what you are doing seriously, i would think you'd want to crack a book or two before day one

I honestly would be wary about heeding the advice of posters who say 'relax and have a good time'.  It just goes to show where their priorities are.  My guess is that these individuals went straight from undergrad to law school, but i can only speculate.

I have to agree with this.  I've been out of school for 9 years and have been reading lots of law-related books this whole year.  I'm not studying the law, I'm reading.  I'm reading about the subjects, and the law in general, in hopes that I'll retain about 5-10% of the language and main ideas, something to help me up the learning curve when the ball drops.  My uncle, a succesful lawyer in his own right, told me the biggest things for a 1L are learning to think like a lawyer and the language barrier.  If I can tackle one of those even sllightly it's gotta help.

The main argument folks throw at me against what I am doing is burnout.  Look, if you've spent the last 8-10 years of your life working and going to war like me, burnout is not gonna happen.  I CHOSE TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL.  If I get burned out it's my own fault and means I made a major mistake.  I plan on doing this law thing for the rest of my life, wouldn't it suck to get burned out in one year?  Give me a break.  Suck it up.  I'll tell ya this, while some of you bask your summer away on the beach others are reading and learning.  When the first class starts, you'll know who is who.  I'm not saying their grades will be different, but my guess is they will be.  There are those that go to law school because they want to be lawyers and those who go because they can't decide what they want to be.  Lawyers prepare.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: ibm laptops-special feature that i need..
« on: June 01, 2005, 06:51:21 PM »
no offense...but it blows my mind that someone could need a $2,500+ computer....overkill?

you're absolutely right if you have a very narrow use for the laptop... this will be more than just a note-taking machine for me.  additionally, it will be the only laptop i intend to purchase for at least the next three years, which means i wanted something towards cutting-edge right now.  if i needed a laptop to just take notes with, and only needed it for a year, i definitely would have made a different purchase.

also, not that i want to split hairs, but the computer itself cost $2K.  add shipping, tax and additional warranty coverage and you have $2600.  there are ways to save on all three of those items, but i made specific choices.  if i had the thing sent slow-shipping to new jersey for example, i could have saved ~$200.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: ibm laptops-special feature that i need..
« on: June 01, 2005, 01:42:26 PM »
Did you PAY $2650 or was it $1350 (You said you paid about $1300 less than if it were retail price). 

Even $2,650 seems ridiculous to me, didn't you look at the $750 off Dell coupon?  The i9300 has really good reviews from CNET and PCMAGAZINE. 

I do agree though, an IBM thinkpad is a top-top machine.  I would have gotten one if it weren't cost-prohibitive for me for all the specs I want (basically what you got, but without bluetooth).

I paid $2650.  The normal price of this machine, without education discount, is close to $4K.  ThinkPads are expensive.  In my mind, they are over priced.  However, I had two things to consider.

First thing is that my school will increase my student budget by the cost of a computer up to $3K.  This means that my laptop cost will be bundled into my student loan.  Since that thing is so freakin huge anyway, what's another few hundred bucks?  Second, while I did look at all Dell models, and price configurations, they just don't make 'em like a ThinkPad.  It's kinda hard to describe unless you've got both side by side. 

The ThinkPad is built like a truck.  The LCD has zero flex, the keyboard is the best out there, and the security and recovery tools that come built into the thing are amazing.  It's made out of stronger and lighter materials than my bike for pete's sake!  I just didn't get a warm and fuzzy when using the Dell.  I didn't like the keyboard, I felt the designs were clunky and not as solid, etc.  While I did like the screens on the Dell, I'm very happy with my SXGA on the T43. 

In the end I think buying a computer is a personal thing.  I've been buying them for 20 years and every time I do it's a several month process to find the right one.  And the reasons I end up buying one will always be slightly different then the next guy.  I can't say you should buy a ThinkPad or a Dell.  All I can do is tell ya what I did and let that factor in to your decision process.  The extra $$$$ on the ThinkPad, in the end, was worth it to me.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: ibm laptops-special feature that i need..
« on: June 01, 2005, 05:35:02 AM »
Dont buy a computer that costs more than $1500 unless you just have money to burn, all you need it for is to run mircosoft word. Don't pay for companies to sell you overpriced RAM. You can buy it yourself at half the price, its not hard to install you just snap it in. Also keep in mind computer manufacturers love extended warranties almost as much as used car dealerships.

here's a hypo for ya - say you run a business out of your house that requires you to drive your own automobile 2000 miles per week.  If you don't do the driving, you don't get paid and you don't have money to pay bills, etc.  wouldn't you get a warranty on that car?  isn't it mission-critical enough to have some piece of mind that if the thing breaks someone will fix it?  and wouldn't you buy the most reliable car you could find in the first place?  one that has the least likely chance to break down on you?

well, if you plan on taking notes in class on a laptop, your little computer is just as critical to your livelihood.  maybe i'm strange, but i'd buy the most reliable and best i could afford, and then warranty it up the wazzoo.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: OneNote Program Question
« on: May 31, 2005, 02:30:00 PM »
So, then, getting back to the topi ;) I can get any little microphone plug in and it will work? As is, they are universal?

any mic will do, however, buyer beware.  not all mics will function well in large classroom settings.  mics designed for dictation won't pick up the professor even a few rows away, and some mics designed for large rooms pick up excessive noise.  that's why i recommend reading some reviews on amazon or epionion or something like that before you buy one.

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