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Messages - tacojohn

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General Board / Re: Number of Hours Devoted to Law School
« on: October 29, 2006, 04:20:00 PM »
Yeah, my heart bleeds for you. You thought this was stressful? How about working a full time job 8-5, then attending classes at night 3-4 nights a week, eating a sandwich for dinner in class, not getting home til after 10 pm. Then spending 10-12 hours a day each weekend day studying. And studying at lunch on weekdays, and on public transportation to and from class. All while doing 2/3 the units of day students who do nothing but go to school, some of whom end up taking night classes after 1st year, so you are competing with people that have way more time on their hands. Some of us night students do actually work full time. And we are very easily irritated when day students with cush schedules complain about how stressed they are. Please.
We can play this game forever until we get to people getting limbs blown off in Iraq or starving in Africa.  Everyone has their own problems and everyone's own problems are more important to them than everyone else's.  If you're older, wiser, more experienced and overall better equipped to deal with the demands of law school, especially part-time law school, good for you.  That's no reason to discount how stressed other people are, or to rub it in their face.  And if you're sick of listening to full-time students complain about their schedules, then stop.

General Board / Re: Just Passing?
« on: October 29, 2006, 04:14:02 PM »
Why do students behave that way? I have no problem sharing my outlines etc.... with gunners. The psychopaths that burn books (and we do have those) don't realize the limits of competition. They will find any reason to bring down a student. They are the ones that end up giving lawyers a bad name.
Because they've bought into an idea that the only job worth having is the one that pays a lot and has a lot of prestige attached to it.  Your ability to get these jobs is largely based on grades.  It's very likely that anyone in law school puts more than an average amount of emphasis on grades in determining self-worth.  Some healthy, some not.  Put it all together and throw in the random rumor about almost every teacher that they grade really tough, and the random story about the kid with a 3.8 who didn't get such and such job because he need a 3.9, and you get some psychos.

General Board / Re: Just Passing?
« on: October 28, 2006, 10:20:49 AM »
"don't be a gunner feminine hygiene product in class"

how does this relate to doing well or not?
It could be the difference between someone sharing an outline with you and someone setting fire to one of your books.  Or maybe it's a commentary on the prices people pay for success.

General Board / Re: Number of Hours Devoted to Law School
« on: October 28, 2006, 10:19:31 AM »
1-3, but I've backloaded a lot of work.  So that'll be going up quickly and dramatically.

General Board / Re: TRANSFER WET DREAM
« on: October 28, 2006, 10:14:59 AM »
We're not dickheads, that information is readily available if you search.  You've also posted about outlines and old tests repeatedly, and everyone has given you the same answer.  Go to the library reference desk at your school and ask where you can find old exams.  Ask around at school and see if a 2L or 3L will give you old outlines, although you should really make your own (but old outlines are helpful in that too).  Do a search here for things like "civ pro study aid" or "crim law commercial outline."  You'll find a ton of discussions on what good study aids are.

There's plenty of help here, but if you're just going to come to a forum and ask for the cheap and easy way to guarantee success in law school, I'm sorry, we don't have that here.

General Board / Re: outlining pointless for open notes take home exams?
« on: October 24, 2006, 05:16:11 PM »
Outlining is not mindlessly condensing your notes, and if someone told you that, they're wrong.  First rule of outlining is that there is no such thing as the "right" way to outline.  For law school purposes, define an outline as a collection of knowledge that will be useful on the exam arrived at by reviewing course materials.  You're not just slimming down case briefs and adding roman numerals or bullets.  Do not let anyone tell you that an outline has to look like this or that, or have less than X pages or more than X pages.

Like Jacy said, the process is much more important than the product that was created by the process.  Outlining simply is a way to drive the reviewing of your materials.  I will say this: most good outlines include stuff outside of your notes.

And I'm willing to bet that a 24-hour exam is not the leisurely writing experience it seems like.  Typically take-homes have fairly strict word limits, and it becomes even more important to easily and quickly determine what is important and how to address it.

I might jettison the practice exams for right now.  It's pretty early for those.  Maybe some short answers or MC questions for a commercial aid, but most old exam questions (the best kind) take 3-4 hours to write, and cover basically the entire class.  If they're helping, that's cool, and I'm not saying that briefing is better or that you should switch, but it seems very early for practice exams (although my Secured Transactions teacher mentioned the old exams were in the library today).

General Board / Re: Professors - mine are not monsters
« on: October 24, 2006, 01:14:33 PM »
It's not really the curve.  If you eliminated the curve, employers would respond by focusing on class rank even more.  The top 10% will still get the best jobs and all the opportunities, just you'll be competing to get a 3.8 or 3.9 instead of a 3.3 or even a 3.0.

As far as professors being nicer, most are much nicer than professors were in the 1970's.  If you read Turow's book, young progressive teachers like Nicky Morris are 30+ year veterans now.  Education in general is not thought to be about whipping people into shape anymore.  It's now thought of more as a cooperative means to achieve understanding.

And because the law school experience is so well-publicized, through sites like this, the occasional news article, Princeton Review, etc., it's hard for many schools to look for a market niche of being uber-competitive, with hard-nosed professors who aren't approachable or accessible.  A couple of schools do take this approach, but they pretty much have the market cornered because the majority of students don't want that type of education.

General Board / Re: Civil Procedure Flow Chart
« on: September 24, 2006, 11:37:14 AM »
I guess I want to ask why you want to do a flow chart?  If you're having a hard time conceptualizing it, you might just not think visually like that.  Don't let anyone tell you that a flow chart is great for anything and everyone if that's not how you think.  An outline does not have to include anything or look any certain way that doesn't help you.

General Board / Re: Another insecure 1L post
« on: September 24, 2006, 09:36:23 AM »
If you can get your hands on a good outline from last year, made by a student who did rather well in the class, that would be a big help.  Either by cunning or sheer luck, that person figured out what the prof's endgame is.  By looking at the outline, you can get a good idea of what you're supposed to be searching for in cases.  I think this is a lot better than looking for what's in a commercial outline, because a lot of professors take a very different approach than Gilbert's does.  Although both would be best.

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