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Messages - HippieLawChick

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Wisconsin vs. Lewis & Clark
« on: May 05, 2008, 05:29:01 PM »
El_Che: In doing all these comparisons, you are forgetting one big element in the analysis - your personality and ability to sell yourself.  The top 20% of students at most schools can generally find good jobs. For everyone else, their ability to speak and convince employers that they are "it" is the most important thing ever.  A lot of what we red on this site and all over the net tends to focus on things that can be measured, like placement numbers, but there isn't much discussion of how much just being able to express yourself verbally can do for your prospects.    My experience with you here at LSD is that you are very straightforward and likable.  That goes a long way.

Forget the numbers and stats and think about how good you are at selling and marketing your biggest asset - yourself.   

Personally, I have 100% confidence in my own ability to find the perfect job, no matter what my grades or school.  That confidence has translated into opportunities.  I applied to very few jobs this past year, and got interviewed at 90% of the places, and each organization I interviewed with made me an offer.  Even the one that wanted a student with a ranking far better than my own. 

Pick a school that can do the most for you, and where you feel you can excel.  Jobs and money will work themselves out, I promise. 

Incoming 1Ls / Re: Summer jobs?
« on: April 09, 2008, 01:51:05 PM »
Contact a paralegal temp agency.  There are plenty of legal secretary and paralegal jobs that are on a limited basis b/c of vacations, family and medical leave act, etc.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: University of Wisconsin, Class of '11
« on: April 08, 2008, 08:22:51 AM »
Is anyone else concerned about the recent campus area killings in Madison?  My husband is saying there is no way I should attend Wisconsin now...but ultimately are Seattle or Minneapolis (my other choices) any safer??

Here's the CNN link for the news story:

Seriously?  Madison is one of the safest cities in the country.  I have never ever been afraid here.

Murder rate statistics I found online:

Minneapolis: Ranked 69
Seattle:     Ranked 192
Madison:     Ranked 291

These are isolated incidents.  Seriously.  In any city, you should lock your doors and use common sense when out late at night, but I have never felt unsafe in Madison.

Please look at the information on the Equal  Justice Works website on the College Cost Reduction and Access Act.  It was made law in September and provides two things:
1) Income Based Repayment for all college/grad school graduates, which make your payments on loans affordable
2) Loan forgiveness after 10 years of public interest, prosecutor or PD work.

This is only for federal loans though, and you have to do the Income based Repayment to get the most out out of the loan forgiveness.  People no longer need to go to top schools with cadillac LRAP's to get a decent deal on loan repayment.  Check out this info now - before you pick a school based on advice from people here.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: University of Wisconsin, Class of '11
« on: March 17, 2008, 07:59:41 AM »
No!  I was disappointed that Marquette got so much love from people there, compared to UW, which ranks much higher and is so well-respected comparatively everywhere else in the country.  I was hoping to hear "Wow - UW Law School!"

Instead, I heard, "Great, UW Law is a good school.  So is Marquette"

As for the in-state tuition thing: I have a friend who has been fighting for in-state tuition for 2 years.  She moved to WI 2 years before law school and had 2 children in the state, but they kept telling her she wasn't eligible.

Don't count on getting in state unless you had connections with Wisconsin before you applied for law school.  They can be really tough with this.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: University of Wisconsin, Class of '11
« on: March 13, 2008, 04:55:43 PM »
MILWAUKEE has tons and tons of alums from Marquette, and they don't consider those students to be less than UW's at all.  I am sure your 6 months of law school have taught you a lot, but they haven't informed you about how to NOT run your mouth off without some facts to back you up.  Consult a hiring partner who went to Marquette at any medium sized firm in Milwaukee, and you will find that there is no hesitation to hire Marquette grads.

My father is a partner for a mid law firm in Milwaukee (UW grad), my uncle is a partner (involved in hiring) for one of the few big law firms in Milwaukee (Marquette grad), my grandfather was a partner at a big law firm in Milwaukee for 25 years (Marquette grad).  My mother, while not a lawyer, works in placement for a major midwest law school.  My Aunt is a senior associate at mid law firm in Milwaukee (Marquette grad).

The one thing they ALL say:  UW students are much more highly recruited.  Period.  It's actually not that easy to get UW students to move to Milwaukee.  Most want to stay in Madison or move away.  I grew up in Milwaukee and completely understand why.  Hiring partners aren't stupid and their egos aren't big enough to want a less intelligent Marquette grad over a UW grad (no, that's not a blanket statement that all Marquette grads are stupid).  No one is offended by it, it's just a reality.  Are there more positions held by Marquette students in Milwaukee?  Probably... in the same way there are more positions held by Cooley students in Lansing. 

Marquette grads recognize the huge difference in the incoming class.  It's not like the GPA/LSAT profiles are similar or the schools are closely ranked.  If Marquette was ranked #60 or something (thus having higher scores), they probably would be close to equal in terms of recruiting in Milwaukee.  But again, it's not even close.  Firms see this and want the best students they can get.  A near T3 school graduate can't compete with a mid T1 school graduate (1.5 hours away) of the same class ranking in the T3's home town.

I actually know many partners in firms in and around Milwaukee (many are Marquette grads).  Marquette is certainly considered a good school by them and they'd prefer hiring them over some other higher ranked, but non-local schools.  But everyone is in agreement that Marquette doesn't compete with UW.  It's common sense.  You act like someone intelligent enough to make partner is so blinded by law school loyalty that he wouldn't take a better applicant from a nearby school.  I know that when I get my UW degree, if I stay in Madison, I wouldn't think twice about hiring a Northwestern or U of C student over a UW student with a similar class rank (outside of the top 10% or so).  It's a better school with smarter students.

EDIT:  and I apologize about the football comment.



Well, as far as I am concerned, I can tell you that my mileage varies here.  I have been disappointed many times when doing informational interviews all over Milwaukee. However, I can tell you that I concentrated on public interest, gov't and smaller employers.  I can also say that if you go to Marquette, I highly recommend you stay in Milwaukee.  The word on the street is that you have a better chance there.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: University of Wisconsin, Class of '11
« on: March 09, 2008, 10:20:14 PM »
Vietnow, I think you will do well, no matter what school you go to!


Have a great night!

Incoming 1Ls / Re: University of Wisconsin, Class of '11
« on: March 09, 2008, 10:08:47 PM »
I figured I'd chime in...

The post about Marquette and UW being in the same league is way off... I'm quite familiar with many of the mid/large-sized firms in Milwaukee and know it's not true.  Certainly Marquette is respected more than in other places in the country, but as someone else stated, firms go much deeper into the UW class.  There's no question that students from UW tend to be "smarter" than those from Marquette (evidenced by higher LSAT scores and GPA's).  The quality of education is likely similar (I'd be willing to say many T4 schools have and excellent QOE's too), but the difference in students is large enough that almost no one considers the schools "equals".  The same could be said about students at UW Law (me) compared to those at the University of Chicago or Northwestern - we aren't as smart as them (and less likely to be recruited, even in Madison).  I'm certainly not dumb, but have the humility to realize there are a ton of people who are much more intelligent than I.

About football tickets - don't worry, it's a lottery and it doesn't matter when you sign up as long as you meet the deadline.  That's why I really don't believe "HippieLawChick" knows what she's talking about with respect to UW.  You'll likely get some as a grad student, if not, you can buy them for about $250 (well worth it).  I went to every game last fall and it was a blast... I mean, unlike any other Big 10 school.  The students are crazy fun.  Nothing like doing a 30 foot beer bong at 9:30 in the morning off a second floor patio for $1.

Um, what are you talking about?

1) I didn't post a word about football.  Someone else did.
2) I used to HIRE LAWYERS in my previous position.  I can tell you that OCI related crap notwithstanding, MILWAUKEE has tons and tons of alums from Marquette, and they don't consider those students to be less than UW's at all.  I am sure your 6 months of law school have taught you a lot, but they haven't informed you about how to NOT run your mouth off without some facts to back you up.  Consult a hiring partner who went to Marquette at any medium sized firm in Milwaukee, and you will find that there is no hesitation to hire Marquette grads. 

Yes, Wisconsin is a higher ranked school.  Yes, in most of the country, it's grads would get more interviews based on the school's rep (with all other candidate qualities being equal).  HOWEVER, that is not necessarily true in Milwaukee. 

Bucky1L needs to be a more careful reader, or he will end up having to transfer over to Marquette. 

Wisconsin likes people who apply early.  A little too much, if you ask me.

They also love: high LSATs, grade acceleration (recent upward trend in grades) and real experiences (not just being Secretary of your college science club)

Incoming 1Ls / Re: University of Wisconsin, Class of '11
« on: March 07, 2008, 12:54:48 PM »
The campus: Madison's campus can be extremely daunting if you haven't been to it before. It is one of these places that can have 5-8 blocks between different campus buildings, kind of sprawled through the downtown Madison area. That said, all of the Law classes are in the same building, and that buiding is very easy to find (It is on the top of Bascom Hill, and is a pretty large glass structure. Very hard to miss.)

As for the top Milwaukee jobs only being for the top third of Madison's class: You need to consider that a very large portion of the people who go to UW Madison are interested in PI jobs and Clerkships (the fact that Madison is the state capitol gives people a lot of clerkship options that the school's rating may not indicate, otherwise. Madison has actually produced 2 or 3 SCOTUS clerks in the past 10 years.)

I am under the impression that many of the Milwaukee firms look to Madison first, even before the bottom halves of the Chicago/Northwestern classes that consider coming up to Milwaukee. However, there aren't that many biglaw jobs to be had in Milwaukee; I think 3 firms? Could be wrong on that number. Since the top 20% or so have honestly legit shots at Chicago, Milwaukee goes deeper in to Madison's class than you might expect otherwise.

Also, you would think that Marquette would dillute the market a bit, but it really doesn't. Marquette and Madison aren't in the same league, everyone knows it, and I have heard that a few of the bigger Wisconsin firms don't even do OCI at Marquette. I've never known a single person who got accepted at Madison who didn't immediatly withdraw their Marquette applications... you're looking at a 60 spot ranking difference, and Madison is more than $20k a year cheaper.

Edit: Odd thing to keep in mind about Madison that I just found out: grades don't affect who gets on Law Review or Moot Court at all. The top 10 people in the class for 1L(not 10%, top 10) do get preferance for Law Review, in that if their writing samples land in the top 1/3 of those submitted, they get on. I assume, in most schools, the top 10 people would basically automatically be on Law Review if they wanted to be.

Some of this information is inaccurate.  Wisconsin has produced 1 SCOTUS clerk (Cecilia Klingle) that I have found.  If you know of more, please post their names. 

In Milwaukee, Marquette and Wisconsin ARE considered in the same league by many.  This is because there are literally thousands of Marquette alumni in the area, and many are in positions of power.  It is strange, but those who went to Marquette still hold their grads in high regard, though Wisconsin is much more competitive.  As for your contention that "a very large" portion of students here are interested in Public Interest (PI is NOT used as an acronym for public interest in the legal field, it is usually reserved for Personal Injury lawyers by the way):  while many wanna be law students list that they want to do pubic interest law on their applications, most don't go into it after graduation, or even pursue this part of the profession much in law school.  NALP and LSAC both have good statistics on this. 

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