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Messages - prelaw_undergrad

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Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists / Re: anybody wait-listed at hofstra?
« on: February 11, 2004, 12:40:31 PM »
Actually, I wasn't planning on applying to Yale, but now that you mention it, I realize I should.  After all, I have a perfect GPA and will finish college in only 2.5 years while ya'll slowpokes will take at least 4 WHOLE years!!  Also, my practice LSAT average is over 170 and I have had to overcome a 'disability.'  You see, I have not heard of Hofstra because I have been pestered by NYU, a MUCH BETTER school.

I finished high school a few years early, so I will have to wait to attend NYU Law (I must be 18), but if you want, I can give them a good word about you.   ::)

Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists / Re: anybody wait-listed at hofstra?
« on: February 11, 2004, 12:16:45 PM »

Okay, sorry.  I just had to get that out of my system. 

Where is "Hofstra?"  I have never heard of it.  Maybe that's just cause I'm looking at good schools... I mean well-known schools... Oops...  :-X

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: progressive law schools
« on: February 11, 2004, 12:10:51 PM »
who are first and second in health law in the country?

I'm not sure, nor do I care, but I don't know who is second, however, I do know that UNIVERSITY of HOUSTON is #1 in the nation for health law.

I'm not sure about transferring, but I think that you cannot take a state bar if you haven't graduated from an ABA approved school. 

The only "advantages" to attending a non-ABA approved school, that I know of, are location and admission.  If you do not live near an ABA approved law school and cannot move, than that is an "advantage" to attending a local, non-ABA approved school.  Also, if you cannot get admission to an ABA approved school and do not want to wait a year or so to improve, than attending a non-ABA school that will accept you is another "advantage."

As far as the effect on your "later status and career," attending a non-ABA approved school could mean having no career as an attorney.  Some law firms may let you be a legal secretary or a legal file clerk, but most firms ONLY want attorneys who can take/pass the bar.  If you cannot, than your law degree from a non-ABA approved law school could be a complete waste.


I'm not too sure on the stuff I said above, so I recommend asking a college counselor, or reading a book like JD Jungle.

Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students / Re: newbie
« on: February 11, 2004, 06:32:11 AM »
I agree with Marnet.  I think the only major way that not finishing you MSN will affect you will be for employment.  Some law firms will want to verify your dedication to the field of law and might be wary if you were first pursuing a MSN before earning  a JD.  In order to show your dedication to the legal field, I'd recommend you specialize in some sort of Health Law and/or work in legal clinics while in law school.

Don't wates your time getting a degree (MSN) that you don't pan to use.  You should save your money for better things.

Law School Admissions / Re: Critique the LSAT/Law School books you have
« on: February 11, 2004, 06:25:15 AM »
They dont use real test questions and their methods contradict each other.

I think students should just stay away from Kaplan period.

I agree with you Victor.  I joined the pre-law co-ed fraternity (basically a honors club, not something you have to pledge to or do freeky greeky stuff) and we, as a group, studied for the LSAT (usually once a month as a whole group) and at the end of the month we took a practice LSAT. 

We shared the costs of the books and one of the books we purchased was Kaplan's LSAT 180.  I have an average score of 170+ (started out at only 165 but have improved over time) but after trying to study and understand Kaplan's method my score dropped to a 162/161 on the next two tests I took.  Everyone in the group had his/her LSAT score either drop or stay the same after using Kaplan's 180 LSAT methods.  On one page Kaplan had the exact same type of problem (logical reasoning), except one story was about tanks and the other was about people, and Kaplan had two completely different answers!!!  Also, Kaplan had two different reasons for theses answers, and neither reason was logical! 

I think that Kaplan's LSAT 180 is lacking judgment and would be a better bet if Kaplan would stop being cheap and actually buy REAL LSAT questions from LSAC!

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Do rankings really matter?
« on: February 11, 2004, 06:02:10 AM »
In law school, the key is to do well.

I agree that if one were to graduate #1 at University of Houston vs. LAST at Harvard, s/he would probably get the same pay upon graduation, no matter which school s/he attended.  However, many people might attend UH with the hope/plan to graduate as #1.  Not everyone will and that's why I believe a person should attend the school with more prestige.  If one were to graduate in the bottom half of his/her graduating class at Kent/STCL/UMiami or any other school that's not considered to be in te top 10, s/he would have a harder time finding a job than would a person who graduated in the bottom half of Yale/Harvard/Stanford. problem is to decide whether to go to a second tier school where I can get $ vs. a first tier that offers me no $.  Also, the second tier is close to my home and I would not have to move my family - I'm married with kids.  Any advice? ???

My sister was in a similar position as you are, MarieB.  She was offered a full tuition scholarship at a law school in her area and not much money at a few Ivy League law schools.  She chose the law school in her area and is very happy right now.  She has not yet graduated but her last two summer jobs were at law firms, one of which paid her over $1000/week.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Texas schools = low employment rates???
« on: February 11, 2004, 05:40:46 AM »
Actually, most people consider University of Houston a tier one school.  Don't worry so much about the "employment-upon-graduation rates."  I am friends with a woman who, upon graduation at UH, had a job with an energy company starting at 98,000/year and had free health insurence, pension plan, etc. 

The University of Houston Law Center is well-known for its Health Law and Intellectual Property Law programs.  UH is number one in the nation for Health Law and in the top ten in the nation for IP Law.  UH, also, has a Texas Innocence Network which allows students to invesigate the case(s) of "inmates who have persuasive claims of actual innocence."  [I got the quote from the UH Law Center website]

The "employment-upon-graduation rates" are affected at many Texas schools because it is, generally, expected that the student will not just rely on school sources and search for jobs in his/her own time.


I also know a man who attended STCL while clerking for a judge.  Many law firms will pay a new associate more if s/he has clerked for a judge.

Law School Admissions / Re: Which job would be better?
« on: February 06, 2004, 07:24:41 AM »
I think that was a good decision (taking the management position) because it will show law schools that you have leadership skills. I wouldn't worry about you GPA, since your worked full time and have a pretty good LSAT score.

As far as your need to find "ways to demonstrate interest in law," I wouldn't worry about it.  Almost every 'typical' law school applicant tries to prove that s/he has a profound desire to work in the legal field, even though law school admissions committees prefer to have a diverse student body.  You just need to mention in your essay/personal statement to law schools why you want to attend law school.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Do rankings really matter?
« on: February 06, 2004, 07:00:12 AM »
You can go over $100,000 in debt for the so called "Tier 1" degree or you can graduate debt free and still have wonderful opportunities- maybe better ones than the "Tier 1" grad pending on your class ranking.  The real key is to do well, whether you're at Harvard or Cooley.  Don't let an arbitrary ranking control where you will spend that next 3 years of your life. 

Harvard, Yale and Stanford are "so called 'Tier 1'" schools?!?! HAHA!  ;D

Not to start a 'fight,' dnw2007, but you must not have been accepted to one of those prestigious "so called 'Tier 1'" schools, otherwise you would not be combating  the "arbitrary ranking" system so passionately.

I do not rely on the ranking system; I rely on the statistics, especially the ones concerning employment.  Tier 1 law school graduates generally have a higher employment rate, are more likely to get an impressive judicial clerkship, and have a higher bar pass rate.

If someone was accepted to Harvard, s/he would be a complete dumbass for choosing Cooley, unless s/he had emergency family obligations (a close relative who lives with him/her is dying; NOT just spouse and kids to care for because one can move a healthy family to the Boston area) and lived within driving distance of Cooley.

Some information concerning a career after attending Thomas M. Cooley Law School:

Pass rate for first time Bar Exam takers: 63%
Students employed upon graduation: 31%
Students employed in 3 months: 88%
Average starting salary: $41,895

Here is the same information, only it is concerning a career after attending Harvard Law School:

Pass rate for first time Bar Exam takers: 95% 
Students employed upon graduation: 99%
Students employed in 3 months: 98%

Granted, I wouldn't choose Harvard over any of the UC law schools, most of the other tier 1 schools, or University of Houston (because I cannot stand the cold and I hate the Red Sox), but I DEFINITELY would choose HLS over Cooley!!  I don't hold anything against Cooley except the school's stats.

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