Law School Discussion

Quote from: psuisback05 on February 15, 2007, 09:52:26 PM

To give you some hope, one of my friends transferred into PSU with either a 2.8 or 2.9 (cant remember which one she said) on B- curve (URM status). So if you're able to get your GPA up to that range, you might have a shot at a transfer friendly T2. Otherwise, just stay put and get the degree.

The OP said that he is at a Tier 3 and PSU was a Tier 3 not long ago and currently a low Tier 2. Unless because of location, I see no reason for OP to transfer to PSU. 

What school did your friend transferred from to PSU? 

She transferred from a T4 with a 2.8/2.9. I wasn't saying the OP should transfer to PSU, but to a transfer friendly school like PSU if he/she really wants to transfer out of his/her current school.

For what it's worth, the Dickinson School of Law was a T3. The PSU Dickinson School of Law is a rising T2 that has gone out of its way to acquire a great faculty, and will begin construction on a $50 million building in University Park soon. Had the 2nd highest bar passage rates in PA last year, and the qualifications of incoming students continues to improve. I'll be shocked if it stayed a low T2 for very long.

I just wanted to write something here because I think it is absolutely ridiculous for ABA students to critize DL students. For one, we ALL take the bar exam. Just because you attend Harvard or Yale doesn't mean you will pass the bar OR even be a good attorney.

Can't argue with you there


 

ABA schools are very expensive because of how much it costs the school to get approval. Again....nothing to do with the teaching methods....so what if you have a bigger library! I would also like to inform everyone that MANY individuals, including Abraham Lincoln, learned law on there own. This is NOT medical school....it can be done through self-study. One can argue that you need moot court....No, you simply go to your local court house and ask to observe. You inform them that you are a law student and that you would like to sit in.

I'd say the law is a little more complex now than when good ol' Abe Lincoln learned it. Back in the day, people became lawyers by apprenticing with other lawyers. Nowadays I'd rather have professors hash through the complexities of the law than try to pick up a book and do it myself. While the third year of law school is completely useless and a way for schools to suck more loan money out of you, I think the first two years teach you a way of thinking that you'd be hard pressed to learn on your own.

And you don't need moot court, or law review, or any of the other extracurricular activities. However, alumni connections and on campus networking activities are things that tend to be very helpful, and things which you won't get from an online law learning process.

Besides, law school teaches you NOTHING about actually practicing the law....why the hell do you think larger, more civilized states like California and New York have law office study programs? Because they KNOW that going to an ABA school is NOT required....Get Real.

By the way, the California Bar Exam is the HARDEST in the United States...actually the BABY BAR is harder than some states actual bar exam. SO if you think DL students are retard or unable to make it in an ABA school than why are we PASSING THE HARDEST BAR IN THE U.S.??

Hmm...then why do you continue to mention later on in your soapbox piece that you're passing "the hardest bar in the US?" Does passing the hardest bar in the US prepare you for being a lawyer?

I cant stand these people who hide behind the ABA accredidation....deep down inside they hate the fact that DL students will graduate with zero debt while they are down 120k without a job.

I think you can't stand the fact that you were never admitted to an ABA accredited school, and are destined to sock it to everyone that is happy with their choice to attend an ABA accredited school. I can relate to you. I didn't get into any of my desired choices b/c of my LSAT, grinded it out at a T4, and I'm now at my initial first choice. I can now say F-you to all the T2's and other T3's that didn't admit me...just like you can say F-you to all the "stupid ABA law schools" that didn't admit you

Please...I have an MBA, CPA and a BA.

Ok...we get it. You've accomplished a lot...You've done other types of graduate work. You'll probably make a fine attorney. Step down from the soapbox.

Doing law school online has allowed me to continue working in my current profession while pursuing my ultimate dream.  My advice is to stop being jealous and congratulate those who made a better choice by choosing a DL school. Get a life....and to those who are current DL students...Keep up the hard work.

No...it seems like you've already congratulated yourself enough that there's no way any of us could possibly fit in any more congrats. Doing law school online has been a choice that has worked out well for you. Going to ABA accredited schools has been a choice that has worked out well for the vast majority of us. Yet you proclaim that getting your degree online is a better choice than going to an ABA accredited school on the basis of time and money alone. What about the students who are receiving full rides at their current schools? What about the part time students who are receiving full rides who are able to continue their employment (like yourself)?

Call me crazy, but I'd bet that the average ABA accredited grad will have not only more employment opportunities coming out of school, but more lucrative ones at that. The $120K  (give or take) in loans could very well be worth every penny once we hit the job market. With a decent salary, there's no reason that all of us will have to live on pork n' beans just to pay for the cost of our education.

At the end of the day, I understand where you're coming from. I think online degrees will be the wave of the future, and I think your program could very well produce some fine lawyers who earn great livings. But if you are so firmly convinced that your decision was the right one to make...do you really (a) need confirmation from internet forum posters, and (b) need to act high and mighty to prove a point?

Not sure if this has been posted already:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-02092007-1296762.html

DA says man tried to steal law school test

By LAURIE MASON
Bucks County Courier Times

An aspiring attorney is in trouble with the law, accused of trying to cheat his way into a better law school.

Kevin Siangchin, 30, of North Plainfield, N.J., was arrested Thursday and charged with trying to bribe an employee of the Law School Admissions Council in Newtown Township to sell him an advance copy of the Law School Admission Test for $5,000.

Siangchin allegedly took the standardized test, which is required to get into law school, twice before and wanted to take it again to improve his score.

The test is so highly guarded that it is insured against theft and fraud for $1 million. When an LSAC employee found a note with $100 taped to her car, asking to talk to her later, she immediately called police.

“This is just about the most stupid thing I have ever seen,” District Attorney Diane Gibbons said. “When we got the call about the note and money, we thought we had a stalker or a wealthy but mentally ill person. We were blown away by how stupid this guy was.”

According to a police report, Siangchin asked the LSAC employee to contact him via e-mail. A detective, posing as the employee, contacted him and he laid out his request.

Siangchin, an engineer, used the name John Galt on the e-mail. John Galt is a character in the Ayn Rand novel “Atlas Shrugged,” about an engineer who designed a revolutionary new motor powered by ambient static electricity with the potential to change the world.

A female detective pretended to be the LSAC employee and met Siangchin on Wednesday at an area McDonald’s. He showed up with the cash, concealed inside a copy of The Economist magazine, and slid it across the table. The detective handed him a copy of the test and Siangchin walked to his car, where he was arrested.
click here

According to police, Siangchin told detectives that he knew he was doing something wrong but that he “really wanted a good score.”

Police said Siangchin added that with 120,000 people across the country taking the exam, “putting himself ahead in such a large group would make no difference.”

After his arrest, Siangchin asked detectives for his money back, police reports said.

Siangchin is charged with potential to change the world.

A female detective pretended to be the LSAC employee and met Siangchin on Wednesday at an area McDonald’s. He showed up with the cash, concealed inside a copy of The Economist magazine, and slid it across the table. The detective handed him a copy of the test and Siangchin walked to his car, where he was arrested.

According to police, Siangchin told detectives that he knew he was doing something wrong but that he “really wanted a good score.”

Police said Siangchin added that with 120,000 people across the country taking the exam, “putting himself ahead in such a large group would make no difference.”

After his arrest, Siangchin asked detectives for his money back, police reports said.

Siangchin is charged with attempted theft, criminal solicitation, criminal use of a communication device, and unlawful use of a computer.

He was released on $100,000 bail. If convicted, Siangchin could be sentenced to up to seven years in prison.

Siangchin did not respond to an e-mail seeking comment.

You can't infer a faulty correlation from a single data point. 

Also, your LSAT score likely placed you at a school where students have similar scores.  Thus, the correlation between scores and grades will be lower than if you were competing with a random sample of students from all law schools.

While your LSAT score places you at a school where students have similar scores, you can still prove the correlation wrong. I'm assuming that the OP with a 143 was probably in the bottom 10% of her entering class at her school...and according to that statistic should have grades in the bottom 10% of her class. Her grades are probably good enough to place her from anywhere in the top third to top 15% of her class.

Things are looking pretty grim.  I'm a P/T evening student who earned a D in Torts.  Oh, by the way, I go to a tier 4 school. 

The worst part is, I know the material.  I just lost track of time on the three hour test, which determined the entire course grade. 

I had thought of a summer abroad program.  That's out.  Transferring to a better school.  That's out.
Working in a relatively large firm right after graduation. OUT.

So, here I sit, debts growing, wondering if I'll lose out on  future exams b/c of bad timing....

My other courses last the full year, so I have no definite grades in them, but my grades on those mid-terms were just above (Contracts) and just below (Civ. Pro) the class average.   

This is a bump in the road, I guess, but I'm really stuck weighing the consequences of it all. 

I'd love to hear from any others who've dug out of this kind of jam, or just have some thoughtful feedback.

Never got a D, but I did receive a C- in criminal law which is the next closest thing. Still managed to transfer to a T2 from a T4. You will need to see improvement from your first to your second semester, which is definitely possible if you get the timing down and bust your hump this semester. Upon getting accepted, I asked the dean out of curiosity whether or not they considered the C-...and he basically said he glanced at it but wrote it off as an anomaly. They will do the same for you.

As mentioned by lawlady...if you know your stuff, the key for you will be to do practice exams. This will not only help you hash over the material, but will allow you to get your timing down.

Stop worrying about the D. You can't change it now. Stop worrying about working at a big firm. Probably wont happen unless your in the top 5% at your school anyway. Stop worrying about an abroad program, which will be little more than an overpriced vacation. Your #1 concern at this point should be "what can I do to improve upon my exam performance and get the f- out of here". Are you considering a transfer for location purposes, prestige, or both?