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Messages - WhiteyEMSR

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81
Last year was the first year ND took more than 1 or 2 transfer students. I think they took 14. This year I believe they took 16, and you would be surprised at the differences in transfer schools, GPAs, etc. Some tier 4 transfers, some tier 1s. Some were top of their class, some only slightly above 3.0. Many of the transfer students did very well during OCI.

I love ND. The professors are very impressive, the course selection amazing and the campus is spectacular. It also doesn't hurt that so many huge firms recruit heavily from ND. They also have a stong public interest program, so don't think that BigLaw is be all end all. 

82
Choosing the Right Law School / Update
« on: September 27, 2006, 11:28:24 AM »
In response to an earlier post, I would say that the top 25% of a tier 4 has a very good chacne of transferring up in the rankings. How much in the rankings, I don't know.

As an update, after interviewing in the OCI process at Notre Dame, I received many call backs. In Michigan Butzel called me back, Dykema, Dickinson, were the biggest, and I have yet to hear from a couple. Also had luck with Indianapolis. I recently accepted an offer for a summer with a top international law firm. They were my top choice, the people were wonderful, and I am happy with my decision to transfer.

My points-
1. Losing law review when transferring is not be all end all
2. Same with moot court
3. Top of class at tier 4 will still not get you interviews with many top law firms, but this tends to be because top law firms, sometimes, don't come to tier 4 schools. I know, I know, someone will respond saying that Skadden is interviewing at their tier 4 school, but go to that firm's website and do an attorney search by law school. See what you find.

83
First off, I'm just jealous that you get to go to Notre Dame. *sigh*...trying to be happy where I'm at...

Moving on...

You seemed to have made the best decision for you and that's awesome. However, I feel compelled to mention that making law review is a huge accomplishment and people who accomplish this at a lower ranked school should not feel that tranferring is their only option. being a big fish in a small pond can be really helpful



Absolutely. It was a very hard decision to make. Giving up law review was something I was not willing to do at first, even with an acceptacnce from ND. I probably would have stayed had the dean offered me more than 25% scholarship, which I lost when I refused to committ due to the fact I had not heard form any transfer schools. 

84
Hi Guys, just though I'd share my story as it might help some people out who are considering tranferring after thier first year. First and foremost of course, you have to do close to exceptionally well to be a contender at one of the higher ranking schools, but it is possible. I chose a school, the Unversity of Detroit Mercy because I saw a dean who was willing to work for his students. The dean has an advisory board that meets twice a year and is make up of partners from THE law firms. They speak about this and that and are able to get certain things accomplished that help the student body. Plus, I had nowhere else to go. Wayne dinged me, Michigan State dinged me, Ave Maria dinged me, Cooley accepted me, yay. Got a chance for an interview at Ohio Northern, but turned them down.

Like everyonther person in the class I knew my place belonged at the top. I worked hard as midterms and ended up first in the class. I took the finals and ended up 2/163, 3.7, graded onto law review. So now I'm a big fish in a small pond, but why not apply to a bigger pond?

I applied to Michigan, Notre Dame, University of Illinois, Indiana Bloomington, Loyola Chicago, and USF. USF, the lowest ranking school I applied to did not accept me. Indiana Bloomington sent me a letter saying there is no room in the 2nd class and everyone gets their money back. I was also denied at Michigan, my top choice (say they usully take top 3 students, but apparently not this time.

Success, I was accepted into Wayne, a school that I would have loved to go to as a first year. But with my ranking and law review at UDM, I was happy staying at UDM when compared with Wayne, where I would lose those credntial from UDM and not have them at Wayne. As to Univ of Illinois, it is a great school, but it was a bit farther away than I tended to want to drive. I love my girlfriend enough so that I have to see her at least 3 times a week. Loyola Chicago was an option as they accepted me to but it meant kind of a long move. Notre Dame, top 20 school, top notch faculty, football games,etc. told me to go.

So, this fall I am transferring from the University of Detroit Mercy School of Law (Tier 4) to Notre Dame School of Law (Tier 1). It was a hard decicion to make but one I don't think I'll regret. And it is possible.

I also say a girl with a 3.4 get transferred into Loyola Chicago, a girl got into DePaul and John Marshall as a transfer, a girl got into Syracuse but then decided to attend Buffalo Law School. One studet, bastard, supposedly did get into MI, but I have yet to confirm this. Just thought I'd share some personal experiences so you don't have to rely soley on law students that have not attended law school.

EMSR

85
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Dizzy from the mailbox. Help!
« on: June 14, 2006, 12:19:09 PM »
Sorry for the late reply. I hope you all are still around. The JD/LLB program seems to draw quite a crowd. The only time I really saw them this year was during the required moot court competition. Many of them made it into the semi-final rounds. The ones I talk to seem to enjoy it, but I haven't spoken to any in any kind of depth. I am assuming there are not many Americans who do the JD/LLB program. I do not know any personally. You should contact Dean Caprio at the school. Her email is on the site.

Public transportation is virtually nil. You will need a car unless you are planning on living downtown and walking to school or taking the people mover (kind of a cross between a subway, a train and a homeless shelter)...haha

86
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Dizzy from the mailbox. Help!
« on: April 04, 2006, 06:59:44 PM »
Hi guys,

Driving in the winter isn't as bad as one would expect. Many of the Detroit suburbs are located close to major highways, and the highways are virtually always clear. This winter I didn't have any problems at all with icy roads. Just make sure you keep a scraper in your car (for your windows) and buy a heavy coat. California and Michigan are like night and day as far as whether is concerned. Be prepared to be cold for at least 1/3 of the year!

Grosse Point is a very affluent area that borders the city of Detroit. It's strange; you cross an invisible line from dirty streets, rundown buildings and lots of liquor stores to manicured lawns, well posted road signs and huge houses. The Dean of the law school lives there and throws a get together at his house for first years before classes start. I imagine it is expensive to live there, but it is close to the school. Personally, I think you're better of living in a suburb further north. 

I imagine it would be very hard to work your first year if you are full-time or part-time day. Part-time day students time one less class (property) so "part-time" is deceiving. I don't think that it is impossible. I know of at least one full-time student who worked part of first semester and one part-time student who worked full time her first year. Personally, I couldn't do it, not even a few hours. I recommend that you take classes for a couple of weeks and get accuntomed to the work load. All three of the first year sections have classes on fridays. I know that past years have had fridays off, but I don't know what the plans are for the future.

Personally, I get my work for mondays done on the weekends and that's about it. Some people like to get ahead on the weekends and take the week days a bit slower. Like I mentioned before, the first semester I went crazy and worked a lot. My life was studying. This semester I have slowed down a lot. I go to the bar one night a week and spend a lot more time with my girlfriend. There are a lot of little tricks you pick up after attending classes for a while. Virtually everyone uses multiple supplements (case briefs, horn books, etc.).

Hey, just for a little UDM motivation (I know you need it!), one of my 3rd year buddies just got a job offer from Dykema Gossett. First year associates start off from $95,000-$115,000. Yikes.

EMSR

87
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Dizzy from the mailbox. Help!
« on: April 02, 2006, 06:58:34 PM »
Hey guys, sorry for the late reply.

Honestly, I haven't thought much about concentrations yet. One tricky thing about scheduling classes after required courses are out of the way (first year classes and a few others you take after first year) is that students think they have more freedom than they really do. The multi-state bar exam covers a number of subjects that may not be covered in the required courses. For example, I've heard estates and trusts is important for bar purposes, but it is not required. You will hear these classes refered to as "bar courses." Therefore, it is important to strike a balance between bar courses and concentration courses, so if you take all bar courses, you have few electives to chooses from and vice versa. As far as what concentrations UDM offers, I know business law is popular and the school is improving their tax law course offerings as well (basic fed income tax is now required...yuck). While I have not heard of students complain of a lack of concentration areas, I have heard them complain about classes filling up too quickly and becoming unavailable, so I suppose these too different problems lead to the same disadvantages. I have heard that th eDean is working to fix this problem. So far, he has proved to be a lot of talk and and quite a lot of action, so I am hopefull.

As to the housing options, you have nothing to worry about. If you want to live in the city of Detroit, there are many options. Cheap apartments can be found everywhere, but the cheaper they are, the less safe they are. The city of Detroit apartments that most students live in are very expensive (probably an average of around $1000 for a one bedroom). For this price, though, you get great security (front desk concierge, security guards, etc.) and very nice facilities. I would resommend living in one of the sububs of Detroit. You mentioned Dearborn and Royal Oak, but there are many others. I actually went to undergrad not far from UDM and have lived in Rochester Hills and Troy, bith in Oakland County (Detroit is in Wayne) about 20-25 minutes north of the school (assuming traffic is not too bad). Oakland County is a very affluent area, but cheap living can be found in very nice neighborhoods. My girlfriend and I pay about 800 a month, heat/water/trash included, for a two bedroom apartment in Troy. 

All law schools are going to have competitive students. It is a very competitive environment. But, the students in my section are very helpful, not totaly self serving, and I get along with everyone very well. First semester is rough! You have absolutely no way to gauge your performance. It is very stressful adn time consuming. Midterms was one of the hardest times of my life. I seriously thought about dropping out and doing osmething else. I thought I was surely at the bottom of the class and much more confused than everyone else. I ended up doing very well in all of my classes, so this semester has been much better. Some students, though, that don't do well on midterms, are even more stressed for the finals.

If I can be of anymore help, let me know.

EMSR 

88
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Dizzy from the mailbox. Help!
« on: March 28, 2006, 05:05:03 PM »
I'm a 1l at UDM. The school is not surrounded by a chain link fence. There is nothing to worry about during the day. Absolutely nothing. The area that UDM is in is actually the nicest part of the city of Detroit...yeah, I know that doesn't say much. The Renaissance Center in which GM's world headquarters are located is right across the street with a beautiful view of Windsor and the waterfront. Greektown is right around the corner. We go our on friday nights and are out until fairly late and I haven't heard of any incidents.

The school building itself is not that great. While some people like the old archaic look, I wish it were going to be updated while I am a student here. The library, while it has four floors and many materials, is old and very outdated. The computer lab is also fairly sad. On the bright side, there are plans for a new building right on the water which should be great for the school. And yes, like every relatively large metropolitan area, you see the occasional bum, but they are harmless, at least in my experience.

As for the faculty, I am impressed. The Dean is a graduate of Harvard and is working hard for the school. I love my professors and get a lot out of classes.

Of course, UDM has the same problems as other bottom tier schools, but it has a great reputation in Detroit and Michigan. Probably plan to stay in MI though. Noonne I have talked to is unemployed for the summer, and graduates do get hired to the big firms. I am fairly certain that I will be getting a good paying internship this summer. Some students have to vlunteer or do stipend fellowship work. Problem is that you have to do fairly well (top 20%)to get into the best (or best paying, I shoud say) postitions, while students from upper tier schools don't have as many challenges.

I don't think that UDM would be a bad choice, especially seeing as you might see the new building. Of course, if you can get into a tier 1 or 2 and don't mind where you live, you would be unwise to turn them down and take UDM before doing adequate research. In defense of the school, compared to a tier 2 you mentioned (I thought about Denver, have family out there), UDM has a better bar passage rate (well at least comparable when I applied) and average starting salaries are higher as well as employment rates. Of course, these statistics, I have heard, need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Anyway, if you have any questions, let me know. I will try to be unbiased, although I love my school! On the other hand, I would have loved to be accepted to a lot of others first! Oh well.

EMSR 

89
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: University of Detroit Mercy
« on: July 24, 2005, 09:38:27 AM »
Congratulations! That's awesome about the in state tuition. I wish you lots of luck.

90
Canadian Law Students / Re: Windsor/Detroit Mercy Joint Program
« on: July 21, 2005, 04:05:30 PM »
I do understand the importance of USNWR, and surely this ranking system does say a lot about the reputation and prestige of schools, but I don't think that one should make a decision on where to attend based solely on this system. I'm sure that some t3 and t4 schools don't offer great opportunities to their grads, but from the research I have done personally, I have found that prospects are good for UDM students, especially for the type of law that I want to practice and especially in the Detroit area. I was accepted to some higher ranking schools, but when comparing average starting salaries, placement statistics, faculty, and bar passage rates, I decided that in my situation, these higher ranked schools were not worth having to move to a different city. I am confident that UDM will provide me with a good legal education, and I am happy with my decision.   

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