Law School Discussion

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Esq

Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13
101
I have many friends who graduated from Tier 1 schools. I happen to know that most of my friends are not making more than $100K a year. I have a few friends who do make those salaries. Some of the reasons that some are not making more than $100K a year is because they chose not to pursue jobs with those salaries. But does that make their legal education any less valuable?  They are not making huge salaries, but they received a great education.  There were professors they enjoyed and learned from, just as there were other professors they did not care for. Simply put, they got a lot out of law school. I know of others from Tier 1 schools who decided to live in areas where jobs paying those salaries are scarce indeed. There is no guarantee that someone who wants to make that salary will get it in those areas. They are not making huge salaries, but they don't walk around saying: "I graduated from a First Tier Toliet and I'm proud." My objection is to term "Third Tier Toliet." If it means that Tier 1 graduates are guaranteed jobs paying $100K a year and other schools are not, the term is a load of ****.

Employment statistics for all law schools are affected by the job market. Before the downturn, many firms were paying large salaries to first-year associates. After the downturn, that story changed dramatically. If the economy takes a nose dive, even those in the upper half of their classes feel it.  What's more, most law schools (even most of the Tier 1 law schools) exist within their geographical regions and they rely on local contacts for job placement. If you are at Harvard, yes, you will have many opportunities. I am not arguing that some schools do better nationally. However, any blanket statement asserting that all students in Tier 1 schools land $100K jobs right out of law school does not hold up. 


Here are some 2004 figures for 23 of the 25 largest law firms in Texas (read: likely to pay close to $100K a year or better) and the law school affiliations (with most of the tiers represented) of their 2004 associates. Note that in all cases the graduating class was considerably larger than the number of class representatives working in large law firms in Texas.

University of Houston Law Center 49

Baylor University School of Law 15

South Texas School of Law 12

SMU 42

Texas Tech University School of Law 8

102
Here are some 2004 figures for 23 of the 25 largest law firms in Texas and the law school affiliations of their 2004 associates...

University of Texas Law School 102
University of Houston Law Center 49
SMU Dedman School of Law 42
Baylor University School of Law 15
South Texas School of Law 12
University of Virginia School of Law 12
Harvard Law School 11
Georgetown University Law Center 10
Vanderbilt University Law School 10
Tulane Law School 9
Duke University School of Law 8
St. Mary's University School of Law 8
Texas Tech University School of Law 8
University of Michigan Law School 7
University of Chicago Law School 6
Columbia Law School 5
Notre Dame Law School 4
Stanford Law School 4
 

103
Law School Admissions / Re: Associates at Law Firms
« on: January 22, 2005, 08:57:57 AM »
Although this does not answer the question above, here are some 2004 figures for 23 of the 25 largest law firms in Texas, and the law school affiliations of their 2004 associates....


University of Texas Law School 102
University of Houston Law Center 49
SMU Dedman School of Law 42
Baylor University School of Law 15
South Texas School of Law 12
University of Virginia School of Law 12
Harvard Law School 11
Georgetown University Law Center 10
Vanderbilt University Law School 10
Tulane Law School 9
Duke University School of Law 8
St. Mary's University School of Law 8
Texas Tech University School of Law 8
University of Michigan Law School 7
University of Chicago Law School 6
Columbia Law School 5
Notre Dame Law School 4
Stanford Law School 4

104
Do people still wear Jordache?  I can't remember the last time I saw one of their commercials.

105
USNWR's rankings were first published in 1987.  The rankings became important only recently in the 1990s. One reason for the rise in the importance of the magazine's rankings had to do with litigation that had been pending against the American Bar Association (ABA).  Historically, the ABA accredited law schools. The ABA-accreditation gave the schools a "brand name". Of course, other schools such as Harvard had reputations due to their histories, but when a law school received ABA-accreditation, it was also conferred a certain status. However, there were charges that the ABA was violating the Sherman Act (antitrust) and withholding ABA-accreditation to control the available supply. In 1995, the ABA settled with the Justice Department. The settlement weakened the ABA's control over the number of schools that could be accredited. More ABA-accredited schools came on line. USNWR became important because it treated prospective law students as consumers. The USNWR's rankings rely on objective data such as LSAT scores and admissions data. Unfortunately, this methodology ignores other factors about law schools. In addition, there have been charges that some schools manipulate their data to "improve" their rankings. The USNWR's rankings are important because prospective students give them importance. The rankings appear to influence decisions about where the students will go to school. The Law schools have to pay attention to this in order to survive.

Unfortunately, the magazine's rankings system has a tendency to turn an intellectual pursuit into just another product on the shelf. On this Board, many people use the term "third tier toliet."  What is the difference between a third tier toliet and a first tier toliet? I am glad they did not call the movie, The Toliet Paper Chase. It just doesn't have the same ring.

106
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Ave Maria????
« on: January 15, 2005, 12:32:35 PM »
Ave Maria School of Law was created around 1999 through a $50 million grant by Tom Monaghan, the former owner of Domino's Pizza.


107
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Experience vs. LSAT and GPA
« on: January 15, 2005, 06:58:06 AM »
It is interesting how USNWR took such a strong hold in a relatively short amount of time. They first started ranking schools in 1987, but the rankings really took hold in the 1990s. The ABA was critical of the ranking system. In 1991, USNWR ranked the top twenty-five schools and then five "up and coming" schools. In 1994, USNWR reported that one in four law schools gave different admissions data to the magazine than what they gave to the ABA. It was reported by a law school dean that some schools were spending over $100,000 trying to "improve" their USNWR rankings. In 1998, a coalition of law school deans held a press conference asking USNWR to stop the rankings. The rankings had expanded a great deal by that point, into the "tier system." By far the most important factor in a school's ranking is its "selectivity ratio."  This ratio is most heavily affected by the school's LSAT for its entering class. In short, the higher a school makes its LSAT, the better chance it has of increasing its rankings. However, the top 15 or so of the law schools in the USNWR rankings does not change that much year to year.

 

108
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Calling all Texans...
« on: January 15, 2005, 06:10:46 AM »
Sorry about the "wavy table" above.  I tried to enter it just as it appears in the Texas Bar Journal, even in the order that they listed the schools.  All the numbers are accurate.

109
Incoming 1Ls / Re: Pre-LS books
« on: January 15, 2005, 06:05:07 AM »
I recommend One-L. Yes, it is a little dated; however, for twenty-eight years it has been the primer for entering law school students. So many students, lawyers, and professors have read it, One-L is the book most people in the legal profession can discuss.  The big picture concepts in the book still ring true. Almost everyone remembers his description of the night before his first exam--Torts.

"At one-thirty, wild now with drugs and frustration, I rolled out and began to flail at the mattress: I was trying to destoy myself, I shouted; I was insuring failure... . At around six-thirty Annette came in to dress for school and I woke to her stirrings.  She kissed me good-bye and wished me good luck and then I got up.  I felt horrible.  I'd had about three hours' sleep and now the sedatives had taken hold. I was cloudy and numb. My eyes ached and itched as if I'd tucked brambles under each lid. I poured five or six cups of coffee into myself, then, at eight, set off for school... I thought vaguely that I was doomed."  Scott Turow, One-L, 174-75 (Warner Books 1988)(1977).

110
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Calling all Texans...
« on: January 14, 2005, 07:29:53 PM »
This month's January Texas Bar Journal has an article about the July 2004 Texas Bar Exam pass rates.  On page 70, they show a chart that presents the following data:

Law School                Tested           Passed                  Pass Rate
Baylor                    99                   91                        92%
St. Mary's                149                  119                       80%
South Texas               273                  190                       70%
S.M.U.                    222                  195                       88%
Texas Tech                162                  136                       84%
Texas Southern            103                   54                       52%
Texas Wesleyan            123                   77                       63%
U. of Houston             223                   191                      86%
U of Texas                339                   312                      92 %

The individual who got the highest score in the state graduated from Duke law school.

Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13