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Messages - nate

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i love outlining. it sounds lame, but i really do; it's one of the miniscule things that li love about law school.

what i really want to know is what everyone does AFTER their outlining is done. when you have your outline ready to go, what do you do? do you narrow it down? do you make flashcards? do you leave it as is and start applying it to *EDIT: hypos/practice exams?

basically, i think outlining is good. it's something i won't stop doing. but what steps do you, personally, take beyond it?

i'm a 1L, and i just wanted to say that i considered doing the same thing you're considering during the application process. the problem is, which i've really started to realize, is that law school admissions is arguably more number-based than any other type of grad school admissions. you might write the VERY best PS statement they've ever read, or have the VERY best recs ever, or have absolutely AMAZING work experience, all of which might just get you in to your law school of choice. but chances are, if you're like 99.9% of applicants, you're going to be all numbers based- it's really all about your LSAT and GPA.

that being said, all law schools basically realize that you could get in to a lower ranked school, whether or not you could get in to theirs. you might get rejected from most tier 1's (as was the case with me), and get almost full rides at tier 2's (as was also the case with me). the point is, law school "abracadabra" knows that if you basically have the numbers to get in to their school, and the school isn't tier 3 or 4, you could very easily get in to a lower-ranked school. they care about one thing, which is their own status. so they won't really be playing the jealousy game with their applicants, especially considering how many people apply to each law school.

Current Law Students / Re: Rankings/Transfer...
« on: January 15, 2006, 03:22:42 PM »
T14 huh? Maybe what I just did really hasn't sunk in that really within grasp? B/c if so I'm definitely going to start going to church more.

well, sign up at and check out the database. it looks like people from tier 3's were transferring to T14, and their rankings were somewhat lower than yours. if you don't have a chance at T14, you almost certainly do at a T25. send out a ton of apps if you need to, it's worth it and you'll definitely get in somewhere.

EDIT: one more thing...just be careful that it doesn't go to your head for next semester- i don't mean cockiness, but overconfidence. i hear some people get so confident that they'll do well again that they don't end up as high after second semester. of course, you could just as easily be one of those people who "gets" law school exams. that's probably the case seeing how very well you did, so that's probably another reason to transfer up. why not be near the top of your class at a top ranked school?

Current Law Students / Re: Rankings/Transfer...
« on: January 15, 2006, 01:41:55 PM »
looking at transferapps, i think you might want to consider aiming a lot higher than tier 3 or georgia state.

i would apply to georgetown early action ASAP. you have a VERY good shot. though, i have to admit the fact that your school was so recently certified might hurt. still, top 2% is amazing and should give you a very good chance, especially if you apply sooner rather than later. you might also want to apply to any other T14's that have early action, and especially some schools ranked around 20.

if your ranking stays as high after next semester, i would probably then send a transfer application to every T14 school. that's just me though.

either way, congrats on the major accomplishment. as much as i hate the prestige whoring, your hard work has really paid off. should you transfer, you're looking at guaranteed employment (something which is, unfortunately, often lacking in lower tiered schools) and at least double the salary you might have otherwise made. even if money isn't your game, it will give you a lot more career flexibility.

Current Law Students / Re: 2 & 3Ls...every bomb 1st semester...
« on: December 15, 2005, 09:19:30 PM »
yes it did, it makes perfect sense.

thank you for the advice. having that sort of attitude is basically my plan for next semester. and if i could finish top third, i would feel great.

Current Law Students / 2 & 3Ls...ever bomb 1st semester...
« on: December 15, 2005, 10:35:45 AM »
...and then do really well during spring semester?

If so, how did you change things?

Current Law Students / issue spotting on exam
« on: December 09, 2005, 04:41:18 PM »
Let's say the professor puts about 10-12 major issues in a contracts exam. He's said that the person who finds all 12 gets an A+, which has only ever happened once in his teaching career. About where might one expect the median to be in terms of issue spotting?

(I realize it all depends on the class, the professor and the school's grading system...but I'm just curious to hear some random thoughts from those who've taken exams).

Current Law Students / Re: Advice needed about where to attend
« on: November 30, 2005, 11:27:12 AM »
"I think you're painting an overly rosy picture of the T14.  And I disagree that clients care about rankings.  Clients care about their case and getting it resolved with minimal time and expense.  Maybe sophisticated organizational BigLaw clients know about rankings, but firms care about the rankings, not the clients."

i think the rosy picture she's painting of the top 14 is pretty well deserved. those are the only truly national schools. any firm in denver is going to take someone from any top 14 before they do from CU, unless the CU grad is at the very top of their class.

now if the OP isn't interested in big law, and wants to do public interest, work for the state government, or start their own practice then, yes, CU is probably the way to go. you're right that clients don't care. unfortunately, employers really do.

Current Law Students / Re: Advice needed about where to attend
« on: November 30, 2005, 11:22:33 AM »
If you get into a top 14, go there!! The debt will seem terrible but you'll pay it off quickly, unless you're interested in public interest law or becoming a D.A. The reason Mich would be a better option is that large firm employers presume that any Mich or Gtown student is a walking money maker. Plus, T14 schools hand out high B's like they're included in the tuition. Thus, all you need to do is pass, which isn't hard to do. However, if you decide to attend CU, the large firms may only look at you if you are on law review, highly ranked, etc. While you may be confident that you can be in the top of your class at CU, so does everyone...but obviously not every does.

You can get any job you want in Denver if you go to Mich, whereas I can't say the same if you were to attend CU. It's not that CU is a bad school, but rankings matter to firms b/c they matter to clients. That's all I'm saying.

i'm glad to see someone else thinks the top 14 is the way to go, no matter where you want to work (that is, of course, IF you have the opportunity).

but what would you say to the OP about the other schools s/he applied to? besides michigan they're not top 14, but are all top 20 or 25, i believe. in fact, the OP already got in to minnesota. what do you think about those options? i think that's a tough choice.

Current Law Students / Re: Advice needed about where to attend
« on: November 29, 2005, 07:31:15 PM »
so texas that is number 15 wouldn't be "ok"?  maybe i should go to a psychic to tell me what to do.  nah, your advice has been very helpful.  looks like i'm probably colorado bound. :)

texas would be a great school to attend...i would love to go there myself. however, when it comes to working in colorado, your best bet is clearly top 14 or CU. though if you do get in to texas, i would weigh that option much more heavily against CU than i would the other schools you applied to. if it comes down to texas or CU, maybe you should look in to their employment record in CO, or do a search to see how many attorneys in CO have texas degrees.

but again, that's only texas. if it's any of those other schools aside from michigan, i would say go to CU for sure, especially if they give you $$, which they probably will.

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