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Messages - nate

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Current Law Students / Re: Advanced Law Degrees
« on: March 16, 2006, 02:32:30 PM »
"I'm pretty sure that with the hundreds of law schools out there and the thousands of law professors teaching that not most of them come from the most prestigious schools."

it really depends what you consider "most prestigious". leiter has done a lot of reporting on this and he reports that 1/3 of law professors come from YHS alone. It's even higher than that if you count those that got LLM's from those three schools. (you can read leiter's report here- i would be willing to bet that another third (probably much more than that) come from the top 10, if not the T14. most others who write about employment in legal academia (ex. volokh) will tell you that all 192 ABA accredited schools are mostly dominated profs who graduated from the most prestigious schools; there are very few spots for the well-accomplished grad of a lower-ranked school.

it's probably one of the most difficult employment fields to get in to. the process generally requires as many of the following accomplishments as possible: prestigous school, near-perfect grades (top 5-10%), law review, multiple publications, extra degree (LLM or preferably PhD). the more you have and the better they are, the greater your chances will be. so, you can certainly "overcome" graduating from a lower ranked school, but it wouldn't be easy for anyone. just finishing in the top 10% of your class is hard enough.

and if you're graduating from a tier 4, your possible places of employment are going to be further limited, because almost no one teaches at a school higher-ranked than the school they attended. the best option in that case might be to transfer, which you should have the grades to do if you hope to enter legal academia.

Current Law Students / Re: Abortion
« on: March 16, 2006, 11:58:56 AM »
i have always argued the very same thing- you cannot say that abortion is murder and also say that it is acceptable for a mother to then kill her child when it endangers her life.

however, i just read an article that analogized it to self-defense. just as someone has the right to kill someone that is posing a legitimite threat to their own life, a mother may do so when the baby threatens her own life. really, it's up to her to decide which life she believes to be more valuable.

i thought it might be a decent point.

(and let me also make clear that my point is not to prove anything or any side here. i'm just interested in different thoughts on the issue; i don't take one side entirely)

Job Search / Re: Options for Georgetown 1L's
« on: March 05, 2006, 09:57:39 PM »
going abroad is always going to mean more money. i don't even think having a scholarship or financial aid would help you when it comes to those credits.

still, your options as a GULC 1L are going to be pretty open, even if you're not at the top of your class. you might be able to find some firm work (though it wouldn't be easy, unless you're at the top of your class), easily find some government work, non-profit work, etc. i'm also sure you could find a position with a federal judge in the DC area, which is always a good option no matter what you want to do.

maybe the question to ask is, what exactly is it you plan to do with your law degree?

Current Law Students / Re: Finding a job OVERSEAS!
« on: March 04, 2006, 05:48:11 PM »
i think a good way is to get a job with a firm that has overseas offices (usually meaning a biglaw firm) and then transferring. some firms even interview directly for these offices at OCI.

but this is a subject that i would also like to know more about.

Current Law Students / Re: Night School
« on: March 02, 2006, 10:28:52 AM »
i liked the classes but hated the schedule. now i have a day class too, so things are much better.

would you be working during the day? taking care of a child? not doing anything? i know of people who do all kinds of things during the day- some like how it works out, others don't.

Job Search / study abroad- european union??
« on: February 27, 2006, 10:40:21 PM »
i was wondering if anyone knows of any study abroad programs- at your school or any other you may know of- that focus on comparative european law and/or european union law. my own school has an exchange program in this area but it only takes 4 people, drawn in a random lottery.

cool. good luck with that.

if you don't mind (it's up to you), would you mind telling me what they say? i have a friend in a similar situation who might be interested in trying this.


i think there's a good chance they would. if you think it would help (which i think it might) you could always stretch the truth and say that you have a possibility for a job this fall, and that you would like to be considered as waitlist for the PT program. if they allowed that, you would probably get in without a problem. and it wouldn't hurt to try- worst case scenario you stay where you are on the FT waitlist.

i entered GW PT and transferred to FT this semester. out of the 120 people who started PT, about half switched to FT after the first semester. a lot of people decide they can't take working and going to school for 4 years, and others enter with no job at all, intending to switch from the beginning.

as far as it being "good", i can't entirely say. as far as i can honestly tell (from talking to upper-level students, guidance counsellers, professors, etc.), it doesn't have as much as a negative effect as most people would think. people who started PT and switched to FT still get plenty of jobs at OCI, clerkships, good summer internships, etc. i was in a position similar to yours- my choice was between GW PT and a school ranked somewhere around where OU is. at first i was hesitant to go PT, but now i'm happy i did. even though some people on these law school message boards might give you crap for using the "backdoor" in to a T20 school, that's about as bad as it gets. you'll still have your own section (with other people who switch to FT) with whom you'll graduate in 3 years, just like those who start FT do with their sections; the only difference is that you'll be 2 classes behind after first semester and will have to take some credits over the summer (which is very easy and can be done in a variety of ways). and of course, when taking in to account the opportunities GW will offer you that a place like OU might not, i honestly think that alone is worth it.

but if you were waitlisted at GW, i'm assuming your numbers are fairly competetive. have you considered applying to GULC PT? i think they're still taking applications online until March 1, so you'd have to rush. still, their PT admit stats aren't much different from GW's, and while you can't switch until second year, it's also very easy to do and you'd be in an even better position than you would at GW.

let me know if you have any other questions.

call them and ask if you can enter PT. they will probably let you.

unless you got in to another top 30 school, then go there instead.

Current Law Students / Re: salary and advancement
« on: February 15, 2006, 11:29:00 PM »
biglaw (125K) has yearly raises and bonuses, so you escalate very quickly. i believe it's the same for midlaw (starting at 80-110K or so), though of course not on the same level. the government also has yearly raises. i have no idea for public interest.

the one area i assume is different is in starting your own practice or joining a very small one, which seems to be more typical among students from lower-ranked and more local schools. i know someone who joined a small, local firm  and his salary bas basically been stuck where he started (around 55K) and will be until the firm grows and picks up business, which could never happen for all he knows. but then again, his father was in the same position that he is and ended up making than many do in their gigs at biglaw- and of course he likes his work a lot more.

but overall, the salary bump seems pretty normal- if not guaranteed- in most pratice areas even after the first year. if you're working for someone that isn't giving you raises regularly, and you don't stand to find yourself better off if something good happens (when the firm grows, for example), that's probably a good sign that you should find another job.

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