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Messages - Citylaw

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General Board / Re: Changing from a medical career?
« on: August 19, 2014, 11:12:45 AM »
As other posters suggested a 170-175 is not easy, and places you in the top 5% of college graduates that were motivated enough to go to law school, study for the LSAT, and had the fortitude to actually take the LSAT. There is a 95% chance you will not score that high. I imagine with your background you can score sufficiently high enough to attend an ABA school, and there is a 5% chance you will score a 170-175.

With that said, I think your best bet is to study for the LSAT and take the test. If you enjoy studying for the LSAT you will probably enjoy law school, and if you get a great score awesome the world is your oyster. If you hate studying for the LSAT and get a terrible score then law school was not for you. I know many people in your situation with an active career, which is where I was when I applied start thinking of the countless possibilities that could happen and put the carriage in front of the horse.

For now give up a few weeks to study for the LSAT and one or two hundred dollars for the test fee. If the score and studying goes well then really consider the pros and cons of law school.  If the score and studying goes poorly then law school is not in the cards, and no need to stress about it.

 Good luck.

If you scored a 165 on the LSAT you will have options at a number of schools. Check out

In addition the location you want to attend school will make a difference. ABA schools in California are often more difficult to get into, because more people are seeking to live in California. If you want to attend North Dakota the admission standards are lower.

If your still in undergrad you may want to sign up for any easy elective classes you have to boost your GPA a bit. Maybe a P.E. class or Sports in film etc just to knock it up a few points. 

Can you get into an ABA law school with your numbers? Yes.

I encourage you to checkout and look at the schools you are interested in to see what your options are.

Good luck.

Job Search / Re: For all those who cry about our jobs stats......
« on: August 13, 2014, 11:08:32 AM »

There are thousands of attorney jobs or other employment opportunities. If you are fortunate enough to graduate from an ABA accredited law school you have had more opportunity than 99% of the world, and if your complaining that it is still not fair then the issues you are facing are self-created.

Law School Applications / Re: Baylor Law Prospective Student!
« on: August 11, 2014, 07:51:28 PM »
161 LSAT and 3.99 GPA are solid.

Remember 161 LSAT puts you in the top 20% of LSAT Test takers, which is not a stupid group. Anyone taking the LSAT is a college graduate that is motivated enough to attend law school and has the fortitude to actually take the test.

As you go down the law school path realize there is a 90% chance you will not be in the top 10% of your class and a 99% chance you will not be in the top 1%. Everyone in law school is smart, hard-working, motivated, with solid backgrounds similar to yours. Everyone on the first day really believes they will be number one just as everyone thinks they can do better on the LSAT. However, if everyone could score 175-180 on the LSAT getting into Harvard would not be much of an accomplishment.

Again, you have some impressive credentials and there is a strong likelihood you  can get into Baylor. If your goal is to go into JAG you can certainly accomplish that from any school with your prior military experience and a J.D.

Good luck as you pursue a legal education.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Thoughts on Touro Law School?
« on: August 11, 2014, 01:49:58 PM »
Any ABA school will provide you with a quality education and if you want to work in Long Island attend law school in Long Island.

With that said I believe any incoming law student should consider the following five factors in this order. (1) Location; (2) Cost; (3) Personal Feelings about School; (4) Understanding the reality of legal education; (5) Last and least U.S. News ranking. I will apply each of these factors to your situation.

1. Location:
You are looking at NY schools, which is a good sign. Many students myself included as a idiotic 0L apply all over the country and think the City you attend law school does not matter, but it is for all intents and purposes the most important factor.

From your post it appears like Long Island is where you want to be so Touro or Hofstra are your best options, and if you can live with your parents and not pay rent for three years that is a significant savings. Additionally, your parents can probably be a source of comfort and take care of a lot of the little random things that will allow you to focus during 1L when it is extremely stressful.

I think Touro or Hofstra would work for location.

2) Cost
Congrats on the scholarship that is great, but one thing to ask is what are the conditions. Most law schools require you to maintain a 3.0 GPA or maintain some standing in the class. As an incoming law student you know your going to work hard and will certainly obtain a 3.0 GPA, but that is what 100% of your class thinks as every law student is smart, hard-working, and motivated. Additionally, law schools is not graded like undergrad and typically only 35% of the class can maintain a 3.0 GPA, which means there is a 65% chance you will lose your scholarship years 2 and 3. I don't know what the conditions of your scholarship are, but I strongly encourage you to ask. This NY Times Article does a great job summing up what happens when law students don't ask.

I also encourage you to negotiate for more scholarship money and better conditions.

You may also want to consider City University of New York since it only $13,000 per year for an in-state resident. In-State ABA schools are the best deal out there if you happen to be a resident of the state, which I assume you are in New York.

(3) Personal Feelings about the school
Another very important factor to consider is your personal feelings about the school. The only person that can really know whether a school fits you is you. Therefore, I strongly encourage you to visit any school you are interested in talk to professors, admins, students, walk around the campus, the neighborhood, and see what school feels right. I visited a number of schools as a OL and there were some that rubbed me the wrong way and others I loved. What is best for you can only be answered by a visit and your gut will have a reaction, which is something you should listen to.

(4) Understanding the Reality of Legal Education:

Whether you attend Touro, Hofstra, St. John's etc you will obtain a quality education. All ABA schools are highly regulated and for all intents and purposes you learn the same thing. During law school you read supreme court cases and the Supreme Court does not write seperate opinions for different schools nor does the law change if you attend a different school.

Many people get all wrapped up in this, but all schools will teach you the law and it will then be up to you pass the bar exam.

(5) U.S. News:
Remember this is nothing more than a for-profit unregulated magazine offering an opinion. Do not let it be the basis of a life altering decision.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Law School Applications / Re: Student discipline problems
« on: August 09, 2014, 12:15:29 AM »
Probably not that big of deal. Stupid yes, but plenty of lawyers got DUI's or arrested etc.

Don't do it again and you will have to disclose the incident in applications and to the bar when you apply, but as long as you don't try to hide it you should be fine. Plenty of my law school classmates who are now practicing lawyers did a lot worse things and our licensed, but use better judgment moving forward.

Really the only way this is likely to hurt you is if when asked you fail to disclose.

Sorry to hear about the incident and hopefully you learned from your mistake.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Newest of the n00bs
« on: August 07, 2014, 07:53:22 PM »
To keep it simple I think you are really well served to just take the LSAT and see how you do. Many people in your situation put their carriage in front of the horse and before committing all this thought into whether and where you should attend spend a few months studying and get an LSAT score then you can know your options.

Honestly, if you enjoy studying for the LSAT then you will probably enjoy law school if you hate studying for the LSAT you will probably not enjoy law school. With that I would recommend setting a goal to take the December LSAT that will give you months to prepare and study and will cost you about $100.00 and a Saturday afternoon.

Once you have the LSAT score you will know if you even have the option to attend law school. Once the option is there then start really considering your options and you will likely do better on the LSAT if you put less pressure on it.

Good luck.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: USD vs. Pepperdine
« on: August 05, 2014, 10:42:11 AM »
Groundhog makes a good point L.A. is a much more competitive city than San Diego. However, L.A. does have more opportunities, but with that comes stiffer competition.

Both are good solid options and you should be proud of your acceptances getting into any ABA school is very difficult. I think after you visit both schools you will have your answer one of them will give you a gut feeling and that is what you should listen to. You can look at endless stats, internet posts, etc, but they are all b.s. at the end of the day what matters is your educational experience and you are the only that knows what will work best for you so listen to your gut and visit the schools.

Law School Applications / Re: Law School Admission Options
« on: August 04, 2014, 11:09:56 AM »
Excellent advice from Miami above.

One thing to realize is that the odds of you scoring a 160-170 are very low particularly if you have a 2.72 GPA. It is certainly possible to score in the 160-170, but that puts you in the top 10-20% of college graduates, that are motivated enough to want to attend law school, and have the fortitude to actually take the test.  There is a 80-90% chance you will not score in the top 10-20% of test takers.

With that said scoring below a 160 does not mean you cannot have a successful legal career and there are a number of ABA schools that you can be admitted to with less than a 160 LSAT.

I recommend getting the best grades possible to finish out your undergrad career as a 2.72 is on the very low end of acceptable for admission standards to any ABA school. One way to boost your GPA is take some easy classes to get an A. Law school admissions do not really review all your courses just the number so if you can get an A or two in Frisbee Golf to boost your GPA then I recommend going for it.

Also take the LSAT when your ready and once you have a final GPA/LSAT you will realistically know what your options are.

Good luck in your pursuit of a J.D.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Mediocre diagnostic what?
« on: August 04, 2014, 10:58:48 AM »
If you got a diagnostic of 141 odds are if you do all the prep right you are probably capable of getting a 155-160, which will get you into a number of ABA schools. Something I see many incoming law students and incoming med students do is flip out about the LSAT/MCAT and expect to obtain near perfect scores. This however, is very unlikely and odds are you will not go to Harvard, Yale, Stanford law school. That does not mean you cannot have a successful legal career attending a law school that 98% of other practicing lawyers attended.

As for prep you can obtain materials from LSAC and order the old tests.  Do as many practice questions as possible under strict time conditions. Practice makes perfect, but it will take a lot of time and effort to do 20-30 full length practice tests, but it is certainly doable.

As an additional FYI I do not believe any schools average the LSAT anymore so you can retake the LSAT if you do not do well without any consequence. Schools only have to report their highest LSAT so that is typically what they will do. A few schools might have exceptions, but I believe the vast majority of schools do not average the LSAT.

Continue doing well in undergrad and maybe get a few filler classes to get some free A's to boost your GPA, take the LSAT, then attend an LSAC forum to get admission waivers and talk to school representatives. Then start applying once your acceptances come in start reviewing this is a good article explaining how to choose a law school.

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