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Messages - Citylaw

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Studying for the LSAT / Re: SEPT 27 LSAT
« on: September 29, 2014, 04:06:37 PM »
Excellent to hear you took it as Woody Allan said 90% of life is just showing up and whether you get a 120 or 180 you took the LSAT. I cannot tell you how many people put it off, but you can literally start applying to law schools in three weeks, and there is no harm in signign up to take the December LSAT now.

As for the application fees one way to save a lot of money on that is attending an LSAC forum or just registering. Here is a link to the LSAC page for the forums .

I registered and attended one of these and got more fee waiver's than I knew what to do with. Literally go up to every school's booth you even though of applying to write down your LSAC number and most will come back with a fee waiver, and in your application you can say you stopped by the admissions officer's booth. This can give you a slight bump on your application and at the end of the day it is a numbers game, but it never hurts to talk to school's directly and save hundreds if not thousands of dollars on applications.

Again, congrats on taking the LSAT it is a big accomplishment to put yourself out there and even if you did terribly at least you put yourself out there.

When I was going through law school, LSAT, etc this quote got me through all of it.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. "

You put yourself out there and whether you failed or succeed on this small test, you put yourself out there, which is something very few people do, and it is why I love the quote so much.

Good luck in

Studying for the LSAT / Re: SEPT 27 LSAT
« on: September 27, 2014, 11:35:57 AM »
As Freshlyminted said ramble on, but after reading your post I think there are several things to consider.

One thing is that a lot of curveballs can be thrown your way. It sounds like you lost your job, and are a little confused right now, but what is to say you will not lose another job in 2015, or obtain a job that requires you to put in 80 hours a week by June 2015, or your best friend will get married on the same ay day as the June LSAT etc.  The longer you put these tests off the less likely you are to actually take the test. Plenty of people put it off, and eventually take it, but most don't.

In June 2015, I guarantee you will feel unprepared as well. There is always more you can do or think you should do. Once your in law school however, when finals come around you will say "oh sh*t" I should have done X, Y, Z, but the final will happen. Same is true with the Bar so on and so on.

Additionally, the fact that the LSAT costs $100-200 bucks really should not be a huge concern. If you go to law school your making a $100,000+ commitment, if $100-$200 is causing you stress, then really think about the reality of the expense of law school.

Finally, again 160-165 is a pretty solid score, and I hope you get hell I hope you get a 180, but scoring a 160 puts you in the top 20% of LSAT test takers, and people that take the LSAT are smart are college graduates, motivated enough to attend law school, and possess the fortitude to actually take the LSAT. There is 80% chance you will not score in the top 20%. 

This reality is something you also need to consider if you go to law school. At any ABA law school even ones that accept 3.0 and 145 GPA's as you refer to them as contain smart, hard-working, and motivated individuals that all think they are special and are certain they will finish in the top 10% of the class. However, 90% of these students end up disappointed.

Again, I really urge you to take the LSAT this Saturday, and if you feel like you terrible cancel the score. However, odds are you will probably score in the 150-155 range, and you can start applying for law school Fall 2015 instead of Fall 2016, which will give you one more year to work as an attorney and start your career. Additionally, almost every school simply takes your highest score so even if you score a 120 every question wrong, which is unlikely you can retake in 2015 and they will take the highest score.

The biggest thing standing in most people's way is themselves. I can see you are putting a lot of thought, and stress into this, but it is really not that complicated. All you need to do is take the test this Saturday. If you absolutely hate the experience you are out $100-$200 and a Saturday afternoon. Odds are however, you will get a decent score and be able to start applying to law schools right now.

Or you can wait around for your another year and in June 2015 you will have this same feeling, and then either take the test or put it off for more time.

I am just a random internet poster so take my advice with a grain of salt, but one of the most important things you learn in law school is how to not over complicate things.  In your first year of law school I guarantee you all your textbooks will be highlighted to no end you will read case after case and be freaking out, but by the time third year rolls around you will skim a case and know the important things to look for, and think to yourself what an idiot you were 1L spending so much time on something that really was not that hard.

Once you take the LSAT whether it be this Saturday or next year, I am sure you will feel great once it is done. However, if putting it off the stress and frustration can be overwhelming, and there is no worse feeling than knowing you didn't try for something you wanted.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: SEPT 27 LSAT
« on: September 23, 2014, 07:53:05 PM »
Excellent additional point, yes almost every school takes the highest score so you really have everything to gain and nothing to lose by taking the LSAT.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: SEPT 27 LSAT
« on: September 23, 2014, 10:42:03 AM »
I see many people do this and continually put off the LSAT, which puts their whole life on hold. It sounds like you have put in a lot of effort for the LSAT. If you really think you put in a good faith effort on the LSAT then take it this Saturday.

Or you can put it off until 2016 and you will likely have the same pre-test jitters and put law school off until 2018. So many people I went to undergrad with put off the LSAT for years and I graduated and pass the bar while they were still putting their life on hold waiting to take the LSAT.

If you do not perform well then maybe law school is not for you, and there is no shame in that. If you get a 150 you will have a few options. With a 3.0 150 there are between 10-20 ABA law schools you can get into. Harvard is not an option, but 99% of lawyers did not go to Harvard.

Basically, just ask yourself will you really put in your more effort next time you take the LSAT or will this situation be the same? If your parents divorced, your girlfriend/boyfriend broke up with you, and were getting evicted from your apartment then you might have enough distractions to put the LSAT off, but from your post it sounds like none of those factors are present.

That is the other thing to consider life throws a lot of curveballs your way, and all those things may come in 2016 even if your really prepared, and put the test off longer.


Don''t make life complicated take the LSAT and get a score. Once yo have a score you can know whether law school is an option or not, and more importantly you will feel relief taking the test. Even if you do poorly it takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there, and actually take the LSAT. Many people spend years talking about it, but never get score, which is really sad in my opinion.

Good luck whatever you decide.

L.L.M. Board / Re: Applying to an LLM with a Misdemeanor
« on: September 20, 2014, 07:48:55 PM »
True law schools have a lot of regulations for J.D.'s, but almost none for LLM's so if your goal is to get a LLM you could probably have a felony, but if you are using the LLM to get into a state bar those regulations will not matter.

Law School Applications / Re: W's on transcript
« on: September 18, 2014, 08:36:11 PM »
Miami is right on point.

I had three W's nobody really cared.

Believe it or not admissions committees do not look at every detail of an application. They are human beings and when a few people have to review between 3,000 and 10,000 applications in a few month period they don't review the transcript, personal statement etc in great detail.

For the most part you will either you go in the reject or accept pile based on your numbers, and a 3.7 GPA and 168 LSAT are pretty solid.

If you are really on the fence they might actually read your personal statement and decide to accept or reject you based on that. If after the personal statement your still on the fence they may actually read your letter's of recommendation and make a decision based on that. If your still on the fence they might review your major and the difficult of courses you took to obtain a 3.7 GPA. If your still on the fence after that they might look for W's and an upward or downward trend.

So basically what I am trying to say is more likely than not no admissions officer will even notice the W's.

Good post by Robert and many undergraduate universities have a pre-law advisor so you may want to see if your undergrad has one and see if they can put you in touch with someone studying for the LSAT. Or contact local universities i.e. Santa Clara, San Jose State, University of San Francisco, San Francisco State, Cal State Monterey etc and see if they have pre-law advisors.

The Dean of Monterey College of Law is also a frequent poster on this site and may be aware of LSAT study groups in the Bay Area.

Good luck with the LSAT.

General Board / Re: Applying to an LLM with a Misdemeanor
« on: September 18, 2014, 11:06:49 AM »
Probably not as long as you disclose what happened.

Plenty of people make mistakes I had friends in law school that had DUI's and one guy had a misdemeanor battery charge before law school. They were up front and honest about it, and had nothing to worry about.

If you don't disclose and they find out you lied about it then you will have a problem, but I think if you are honest it should be fine. It won't help obviously, but I expect it would have minimal impact.

However, the best source of information is the admissions offices they are the ones making the decision. Columbia may have a policy that they do not allow anyone with misdemeanors and if that is the case don't apply there.

You should also check with the State Bar you are interested in taking if any. The New York State Bar may have different rules for criminal charges than the California Bar etc, but go directly to the sources anyone here is nothing more than anonymous internet poster, but there are people that are literally paid to make polices for this kind of thing and they are the best point of contact.

Good luck in your pursuit of a legal education.

Join the club of law school applicants that partied to much and didn't take undergrad to seriously. You did not list your GPA so I don't know what your GPA was, but I imagine like 95% of undergrad students you don't have a 4.0.

If you have a 3.0 or above you can get into a number of law schools.

Your post seems to indicate you will only accept a T14 school, but I don't know how many incoming law students erroneously think this matters or is commonplace. If you can get into Harvard go for it, but 99% of practicing lawyers did not go to Harvard or Yale. Additionally, going to Harvard or Yale does not mean you will succeed in teh legal profession. One of my really good friends went to Yale Law School, but he hated being a lawyer and is now a salesman. He completely regrets having ever gone to law school, because it wasn't for him. Many of law school classmates are obviously doing quite well, but the point is going to X school does not mean success.

If you get a 170 on the LSAT awesome more power to you, but again there is 95% chance you will not score a 170 on the LSAT nothing against you, but odds are you not going to score in the top 5% of test takers.

Take the LSAT see what you get and assess your options. Don't go to the PeaceCorps or any of the other numerous things for the purpose of getting into a "better" law school. Just take the LSAT and see where you stand and decide whether to attend law school or not.

Also remember that the T14 schools are based on U.S. News, which is nothing more than a for-profit unregulated magazine offering an opinion and the "T14" schools changed every year. There are certain schools Harvard, Yale, Stanford, that people know across the country, but Notre Dame is a great school in the Midwest, Texas is the best school for Texas, Nebraska is best for Nebraska, on and on location matters far more than what U.S. News says.

Here is an excellent article explaining the things to consider when choosing a law school.

Good luck in your pursuit of a legal education.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Considering Law School
« on: September 11, 2014, 05:09:44 PM »
If you want to end up in Chicago go to law school in Chicago.

University of Chicago is obviously the best, but that is tough. Then Northwestern or Notre Dame will open more doors in Chicago than Stanford would, even though Stanford is number 3.

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of location over the rankings. The rankings change drastically year by year and in the Bay Area you will find Stanford/Boalt grads they are connected in the Bay Area. You can find Stanford alum in Chicago, but University of Chicago or Northwestern grads will predominate in Chicago.

Realize wherever you attend law school will be three years of the prime of your life, and will likely where you end up residing long term. Also campuses are different Notre Dame is a college town and if you love Football, Frat, Parties, etc then Notre Dame is great, but if you hate small college towns don't move to South Bend.

Really consider location when you choose your law school I cannot emphasize it enough.

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