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41
Law Firms / Re: Which law school for Florida Job- FSU vs. Wake Forest
« on: June 25, 2014, 11:34:13 AM »
I believe I responded to a similar post, but you have added Ohio State to this list.

I know nothing about you personally or what is best for you and neither does any other anonymous internet poster on this board or others.

I would however, strongly encourage you to consider the importance of the location you attend law school in. Tallahassee, Florida; Columbus, Ohio; and Winston-Salem, North Carolina are very different places. You will deal with subzero temperatures in Columbus and sweltering heat in Tallahassee as one example. The culture of the Midwest differs significantly from Winston- Salem, North Carolina.

You also should consider whether you have friends or family in any of these cities as having people outside of law school to interact with is very important. You can get lost in the law school bubble if you don't have an outlet so if all your friends live in Columbus, Ohio that is something to consider. If you do not know a soul in Winston-Salem North Carolina that is also something to consider.

It is also important no matter what ABA school you attend you will receive a solid legal education and for all intents and purposes learn the same exact thing. Your first year will consist of (1) Torts; (2) Property; (3) Civil Procedure; and (4) Contracts. Schools then mix-up whether you take Crim Law/Crim Pro/Con Law in 1L or 2L, but you will take those courses. You will also take Evidence; Wills & Trusts; Business Associations/Corporations so on and so on. In these courses you will read Supreme Court Cases and the Supreme Court does not write separate opinions for different law schools and the law is the same whether you attend Cooley or Harvard.

The rankings mean very little and in my opinion nothing particular with the schools you are mentioning as it is very possible Wake Forest will not be ranked lower than Ohio State by the time you graduate. Nobody really cares about the rankings in all honesty, but if there was someone who did these schools are so close in caliber that they alternate here is a list of where these three schools have ranked over the last 5 years.

In 2010 Wake Forest was 44th and Ohio State was 34th. Today both schools are in a five way tie for 31st.

So if you choose Ohio State over Wake Forest based on rankings in 2010 when you graduated in 2014 your choice would have been pointless, because they are now in the same exact spot. Your whole life experience of being in Columbus Ohio or Salem-Winston North Carolina would certainly have mattered, but the rankings at graduation, which honestly in mean nothing in the real world wouldn't even matter if they were important, because they are now in the same exact spot.

Specific Ranking Breakdown below and here is a link to the info for verification. http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html

Wake Forest:
2009: 40th
2010: 4 way tie for 38th
2011: 39th
2012: tied for 44th
2013: tied for 36th
2014: 5 way tie for 31st

Florida State:
2009: 51st
2010: Tied for 54th
2011: Tied for 50th
2012: 3 way tie for 51st
2013: 3 way tie for 48th
2014: 45th.


Ohio State
2009: Three way tie for 35th
2010: Three way tie for 34th
2011: Three way tie for 35th
2012: Tied for 39th
2013: Tied for 36th
2014: Five way tie for 31st with one of the five schools they tied with is your other Candidate Wake Forest (which of the five schools ranked 31st is actually better? Is Wake Forest actually 36th? Who knows more importantly who cares?


Conclusion:
Please do not make a decision on any of these schools based on ranking it is very possible whatever school you choose based on ranking will end up being lower by the time you graduate etc. Florida, North Carolina and Ohio however, will result in very different life experiences so I encourage you to analyze, which of those is best for you and to not listen to a for-profit, unregulated magazine to make a life altering decision. The U.S. News formula is not based on anything it is people filing out a scantron from 1-5 and there is no science behind it, which is why rankings change drastically year by year. U.S. News is not doing anything wrong they are just offering an opinion to make money and if you want to make a life altering decision based on it that is your call.

Good luck whatever you decide.


42
Becoming a doctor or a lawyer is difficult neither is an easy path. There are however, plenty of jobs for lawyers out there, but failed law students are more likely to offer analysis as to why things did not work out for them.

I agree 100% with Newlyminted just take the actual LSAT and see how it goes. Getting a 160 on a practice doesn't actually mean anything, but if you actually study and take the real LSAT and get a solid score law school becomes a reality. You can have an LSAT score and never apply to law school and continue your medical training your out.

If you end up getting a 140 on the LSAT then maybe it really isn't for you, but if you get a 170 then the door is open, but you don't have walk through it.

However, I want to disclose the feeling of getting B's and not A's will occur in law school. Law school is highly competitive and everybody on the first day thinks they will graduate in the top 10% of the class, but obviously 90% don't and half of the students finish in the bottom of the class.  I do not know how med school works, but there in law school only a certain percent of the class can get an A and the difference between an A and B is often subjective based on the professor. So whether you go to law school or med school be prepared to not be the #1 student.

Good luck whatever you decide.

43
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: LLB (Graduate Entry)
« on: June 25, 2014, 10:54:57 AM »
I believe CUSC is right on point.

At my California law school there were a number of LLB's and they were all in the process of completing an LLM to take the bar.

The best place to get an answer however, is directly from the source so I encourage you to contact the California State Bar.

Here is the link to the California Bar future lawyer website, which can probably answer any question you might have. If worse comes to worse call them and ask http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/ .

Although I believe cusc's post is right on you don't want to spend a bunch of time and money then not be able to take the bar for some unknown reason and say well X anonymous internet poster said it would all work out.

Good luck in your pursuit of a American law license.

44
Agreed, but the OP seemed to be very focused on rankings and I wanted to at least make the OP ask why the rankings matter. Maybe OP has done extensive research and really thinks a magazine's opinion is the end all be all in the legal profession, but perhaps the OP has never stopped to think why he/she cares so much about the rankings.

Placing importance is common mistake many 0L's make in my opinion and one I made as a OL. So the purpose of my post was to get the OP asking themselves why the rankings mattered.

As to the actual question as to where OP can get in good sites to look at our lawschoolnumbers.com or just the LSAC chart. Both these sites list whether applicants got in with specific LSAT/GPA scores.


45
First realize that anything you read from anonymous internet posters on this board or others my post included should be taken with a grain of salt. Anybody can post anything they want so do not take anything you read from anonymous internet sources to seriously.

With that said the job market is not that terrible and there are plenty of opportunities for law graduates, but it takes time to build a career particularly in the legal field.

As for the rankings please do not make a life altering decision based on a magazine remember it is a for profit magazine offering an opinion.

I have said times on this board that any law student should consider the following factors when choosing a law school in this order (1) Location; (2) Cost; (3) Personal Feelings about the school; (4) Understanding the reality of legal education; (5) Last and least U.S. News rankings.

Below is an analysis of each factor

1) Location:
You say you do not care where the school is located, but this is something you should consider. Law school does not exist in a vacuum and life goes on if you have friends, family, connections etc in Michigan and want to live in Michigan after graduation then attend law school in Michigan.

If you attend law school in Ann Arbor Michigan or Westwood (UCLA) your experience will be very different L.A and Michigan are very different places and your whole experience will be different.  Do you want to be in a place with beautiful weather, beautiful people, heavy traffic, expensive parties, plastic surgery, laker games, everybody wanting to be an actor etc?  Or do you want be in the Midwest with a simpler lifestyle and bad weather? Nothing is wrong with either one, but you likely have a preference one way or the other.

 Aside from the cultural differences by City you  will make friends, enter into or solidify an existing romantic relationship, get an apartment and just build a life during your three years of law school and most law students do not move far from their law school.

Several reasons for this are if you are California you will likely take the California Bar at graduation, Michigan the Michigan bar at graduation etc. On top of that the professors at UCLA will have connections in L.A. not Michigan conversely professors in Michigan will have connections in Michigan. You will only be able to do not internships in the location you are living in during school so again another factor in favor of location.

So please consider location in your decision it is very important factor.

2) Cost
With your LSAT score and GPA you will likely have access to scholarships at numerous schools and getting out of school debt free is often a lot better than saying you attended the 19th best law school and having $200,000 in debt.

I strongly encourage you to apply to a number of schools in the area you want to live in and see what type of scholarship offers you receive. Also consider the school's location and look up actual costs. The cost of living to attend Columbia in NYC is going to be a hell of a lot more expensive than Ann Arbor Michigan so really analyze costs.

(3) Personal Feelings about Schools:
It is important to realize each school has a culture to it and whether you like that culture or not is a question only you can answer. When I was a 0L I visited a number of schools some I hated others I loved, but you may love the ones I hated and vice versa.

When you have narrowed it down to a few schools I strongly encourage you to visit the contending schools talk to professors, admins, students, walk around the campus, etc and see what feels right. Some schools will give you a good feeling others will not.

4) Reality of Legal Education: 

It is important to understand any ABA school will provide you with a quality education and for all intents and purposes you will learn the same exact thing at any school.

Your first year will consist of Torts, Contracts, Civil Procedure, Property, and Crim Law. In these courses you will read Supreme Court cases and the Supreme Court does not write separate for different ranked schools. Whether you attend the #200 school or Harvard you will read Palsgraf in Torts to learn proximate cause, Pennoyver v. Neff in Civ pro to learn about notice etc.

At the end of three years you will take a BarBri or Kaplan  bar review course with hundreds of other students from various law schools and then after months of intense studying cram into a room with thousands of law students to take a state bar exam. Whether you pass that exam or not will have a lot more to do with you than the school you attend and if you don't pass your not a lawyer if you pass you are.

To sum it up any ABA school will provide you with a quality legal education.

5. U.S. News Rankings:
Your post contains one of the most common mistakes made by 0L's and that is thinking the rankings mean something. Obviously Harvard, Yale, etc are great schools, but so are a number of other schools. In reality if you want to live in Utah the best school to attend is BYU. If you want to live in Montana and Montana Law School. U.S. News is not based on anything and the rankings change year by year based on nothing.

Remember U.S. News Ranks more than just law schools and according to U.S. News Albuquerque, New Mexico is the #1 place to live. http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/slideshows/best-places-to-live . Are you going to move to New Mexico, because U.S. News says it is the #1 place to live?

Use the same logic are you going to attend a law school, because U.S. News says X school is #19.

In the real world whether you make it in the legal profession has a lot more to do with you than the name of your school, but so many students make life altering decisions based on this magazine and it never goes well.

Conclusion:
There is no right answer to what law school to attend, but use common sense and apply the various factors of location, cost and how you feel about a particular school and do not let some magazine tell you what is best for you.

The legal profession can be a great career and it sounds like you are taking steps in the right direction to become a lawyer.

Good luck in your future endeavors.


46
General Board / Re: Donald Sterling Lawsuit ?
« on: June 20, 2014, 07:57:03 PM »
He can get whatever money she has at least and then whatever reality T.V. show she gets on he can garnish her wages etc.

He will mess up her life, but she might benefit from it in the long-run although most likely in a year or two everyone will forget about her and Donald Sterling.

Remember when that Malaysian airliner went missing? Huge news for about two months then everybody forgot something else will happen and V Stiviana and Donald Sterling will be forgotten about.

47
If you want to live in Florida then attend law school in Florida it is that simple.

However, the location where you attend law school is important. Every 0L myself included back at that time assumes law school will be so difficult that they will not have time for anything else and more importantly that once they graduate you can just go wherever you want.

Both are false law school is essentially the prime of your life and where you spend three years of your life is a very important decision. More importantly there is a substantial chance you will end up around the area you attended law school for both personal and professional reasons.

In law school you will make friends, likely enter into a serious relationship or solidify a pre-existing one, you will get an apartment and essentially build a life for three years, which can be difficult to leave. People do it of course, but on my first day of law school many people came from all over the country with a number of ideas that they would return to X place, but for the most part didn't happen. They obtained internships built connections etc near our law school, took the California Bar, and got jobs through their law school connections, or stayed due to a relationship they entered, etc.

There  are exceptions of course, but you should be sure you want to live in Tallahassee Florida for three years, because where you spend that time is important.

There are a number of factors to consider when choosing a law school and one of the least important ones is the rankings. It is a magazine offering an opinion and should not be the basis of a life altering decision.

Here is a good article offering some insight on how to choose a law school.

There is of course no right answer to the question, but use your common sense and do not let a for-profit unregulated magazine make a life altering decision for you.

http://www.legalmatch.com/choose-the-right-law-school.html

Good luck in your pursuit of a legal education.

48
General Board / Re: Donald Sterling Lawsuit ?
« on: June 20, 2014, 12:29:58 PM »
I am sure he will sue her and make her file bankruptcy to destroy her life pretty easy case against her. Invasion of privacy tort with  gigantic damages.

As for the NBA it will just be interesting essentially he is the victim of a crime and being penalized for the crime committed against him. The question I would frame is can you penalize someone for a crime perpetrated against them the answer would seem to be no, but I am very interested to see how it all plays out.




49
General Board / Re: Alito calls USNWR rankings an "abomination"
« on: June 20, 2014, 12:25:17 PM »
No ranking system anywhere is "accurate", which is the whole issue.

It is the opinion of a magazine with no basis in actual facts.

If the rankings were based on something 100% tangible such as the average LSAT score of incoming students as this is the same test nationwide. Or a regional ranking by state bar passage i.e. what California school has the highest bar passage in California you could have a tangible ranking. Otherwise it is all speculation.

They are just opinions who is the greatest quarterback of all time.
(1) Joe Montana
(2) Brett Favre
(3) John Elway
(4) Dan Marino
(5) Johhny Unitas
(6) Jim Kelly
(7) Peyton Manning
(8) Tom Brady
(9) Joe Namath
(10) Frank Tarkenton

The list can go on forever and there is no right answer people would say Dan Marino is the great twenty others would say Tom Brady it is all fun to argue about, but it is essentially meaningless. Same with the rankings U.S. News has their formula, which is fine the formula makes little to no logical sense, but it is their formula and they are entitled to offer their opinion.

If people want to make life altering decisions based on a magazine's opinion let them, but it is not wise to do so.

Our culture loves to rank things, but they are all b.s. here is times list of the top 100 most influential people http://time.com/time100-2014/.  If people are not on this list does it mean they are not influential? Again, it is just a magazine writing an opinion, which is fine let them do it, but hopefully nobody actually makes any life altering decisions based on this magazine opinion.

People just need to use common sense it seems to be more and more of a lost art.

50
General Board / Re: Donald Sterling Lawsuit ?
« on: June 17, 2014, 08:07:56 PM »
My understanding of the NBA constitution was that if an action caused an economic harm to the league, but the team could have sold for a record breaking $2 billion dollars so his comments did not negatively impact the league economically.

My understanding of the rules is that you could kick an owner out for not paying their contracts etc, which makes sense and if there was actually economic damages as a result of his statements maybe under that provision it could apply. However, it seems liek this action for all intents and purposes has had a positive economic impact on the NBA in that people are constantly talking about it and billionaires are trying to get their name in the paper just for a chance to buy it.

Sterling is a pretty good lawyer and I am interested to see how he handles it.

As for the Politics the legal system often wins out over popular opinion. Brown v. Board of education was not exactly a popular decision when it came out and the national guard had to be called in, but it stuck.

Judges typically are not politicians as most are appointed, which allows them the discretion to make the right but often unpopular decisions.

It will be interesting to see.

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