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Messages - Citylaw
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« on: July 29, 2014, 01:25:47 AM »
Great post Miami.
Silverdoe the rankings are not going to make it or break it for you. Any ABA school will provide you with a quality education and the reality is any educational experience is what you make of it. Honestly, if you attend Harvard, but sit in the back of the class, never interact with anyone, don't study etc you likely won't succeed. If you attend Cooley graduate as Valedictorian, connect with professors, get internships etc you will likely succeed.
As Miami said very few lawyers went to the top schools. There are 200 ABA schools therefore, 95% of practicing lawyers did not attend a top 10 school.
I encourage you not to over think the law school application process it is something many 0L's do, but keep it simple. If you want to be a lawyer in Miami attend law school in Miami and get out with as little debt as possible. If you want to be a lawyer in Eastern Washington attend law school in Eastern Washington and get out with as little debt as possible.
If you will only be happy working for Cravath then probably don't attend law school.
« on: July 27, 2014, 12:33:32 PM »
Columbia, NYU, and Fordham are great schools. However, no school anywhere guarantees you a job.
Whatever law school you choose it will be up to you to graduate, obtain relevant internships, pass the bar, and find the right job for you.
I know you would like there to be some guarantee that choosing X law school will result in success, but there is no way to know. There are plenty of Harvard, Yale, Stanford grads that never passed the bar or found legal employment and plenty of Cooley Grads that passed the bar and went onto successful legal careers. Obviously a degree from Harvard, Yale, and Stanford will open more doors than Cooley, but no school will guarantee you anything it will be up to you as an individual to succeed in the legal profession.
« on: July 25, 2014, 03:15:16 PM »
Very few firms actually post actual rankings they like to say top law school, but actual rankings change drastically year by year.
Remember U.S news is a for profit unregulated magazine offering an opinion. There is no real basis to the ranking at all.
If you went to Harvard, Yale, Stanford then yes doors will open.
If you went to Mcgeorge, LMU, Pepperdine, Santa Clara nobody would really know the difference in fact I don't know what the difference is, but I work with lawyers from each of those schools routinely. Some are great, some are ok, others are awful.
The reality is whether you succeed as a lawyer has a lot more to do with the individual than the school they attended.
« on: July 25, 2014, 01:47:54 AM »
Silverdoe absolutely e-mail plenty of lawyers love their job, but most of them don't anonymously post on the internet, but with my law degree I was also able to get a side job, which allows me to get paid for writing on this board and others.
However, I love my job as a City Attorney I get to do a lot of very exciting things and I am happy to explain all the great things you can do with a J.D.
« on: July 25, 2014, 01:45:52 AM »
There is a lot to think about and one of the most important factors to consider is location.
Why did you choose Ave Maria originally do you have family in Naples?
Miami, Tallahassee, and Naples are different places and odds are you will end up in whatever City you attend law school.
An additional factor to consider when transferring is your personal relationships at the school. If you finished in the top 10% of your class you are doing well and your rank will improve significantly, because many of the people above you will transfer.
I had the option to transfer from a mid-level school to some low-level T1's in the law school bubble I thought law school rankings were everything, but now that I am well out of the law school bubble I realize how irrelevant the rankings are.
If you have a lot of good relationships with professors, friends, etc at Ave Maria you might want to stay. Many of my classmates that transferred regretted it they had to start at a new school after all the 1L relationships are formed etc. Some people are great at adjusting to a new social situation while others are not that is a question only you can answer.
One thing I highly recommend doing is negotiating with Ave Maria for scholarship money to reduce tuition if you can get a significant scholarship and graduate in the top 5% of the class you will be in good shape.
With that said both FIU and FSU offer very cheap in-state tuition.
It is a really tough choice my recommendation is always if it is not broke don't fix it. You are doing extremely well if your in the top 10% of your class and my thought is don't rock the boat, but I am a random guy on the internet so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Congrats on your strong first year performance and good luck whatever you decide.
« on: July 23, 2014, 10:32:17 PM »
Agree with both follow-up posts and particularly. Newlyminted's as I have seen that as well. I literally took the LSAT only, because I a girl I was dating in college had flaked on it four times and I just said I would take it as support. We both went, but she cancelled her score this occurred eight years ago last time I talked with her I was a 2L and she was still studying for the LSAT.
She was a smart girl and probably would have done fine and hopefully she eventually did, but if OP got a 159 why not apply to some law schools and see what happens. If he/she is admitted with scholarships to several schools they can consider it, if everything is a disaster retake.
There are economic realities to delaying as well. The longer you wait to attend law school the less time you have to recoup your investment saving $10,000 on a scholarship is nothing when compared to using two full years of employment as an attorney.
« on: July 23, 2014, 01:27:37 AM »
It may be possible to get a 170+, but as you said it takes a ton of work. So does having 6 pack abs, learning a language, etc all of us are capable of doing all of these things, but we often do not accomplish it. I have known many people in my life that were studying for the LSAT and continually put it off for years waiting for everything to be perfect. Years passed and they never took the LSAT or attended law school. I took the LSAT and did not score a 170, but I was accepted into an ABA law school; passed the bar; and love my job as an attorney.
I guess the main point of my post was to not wait for everything to be perfect I think that is the flaw of many 0L's and practicing lawyers. Odds are nothing will be perfect and you are unlikely to get into Harvard, Yale, etc I hope the OP gets into Harvard, but 90% of practicing lawyers did not attended the top 10% of schools.
I am sure you are a great LSAT instructor and if you find a student motivated enough to get a 170 you could help them get there, but many people love to say they will put in the work and sincerely believe they will, but the majority of people do not get a 170 on the LSAT for a reason and that reason is most people do not actually have the focus to get a 170, have six pack abs, know seven languages, etc although most of us are capable of doing so.
The OP had a 159, which is by no means an awful score having the courage to show up and take the LSAT is something to be commended and a 159 is sufficient to get into over half the ABA schools in the country.
« on: July 22, 2014, 11:27:22 AM »
Practice scores mean very little and a 159 is not a bad score. You can get into a number of law schools with it.
You can keep paying for LSAT courses and putting off law school and perhaps you wil boost your score a few points or do worse. Or you could apply with a 159 then get into an ABA law school pass the bar and become an attorney.
Once you start law school and eventually take the bar the LSAT will seem like a joke and the truth is nobody really cares what law school you went to they care about you getting results. Of course Harvard, Yale etc open doors, but even with a 170, which realistically your probably not going to get your not getting in.
So many OLs myself included years ago when I was in your position over think the LSAT, the admissions process etc and pay these for these courses that pray on your anxiety.
Blue book might help your score it might not and the reality is if you scored 159 you finished in nearly the top 20% of college graduates that were motivated enough to actually show up for the LSAT, which is pretty good, but everybody has their limit.
You will need to learn that once you enter law school as well. 100% of students at any ABA school are smart, hard-working and motivated and believe they are finishing, but 90% will be wrong. When you enter law school you will think the same, but there is 90% chance you won't and a 50% chance you will finish in the bottom half of the class, this is nothing personal against you just the reality and I hope if you retake you get a 180 and become Valedictorian at Harvard, but it is probably not happening.
Bottom line is enroll in law school if that is what you want to do don't keep putting it off and spnding money hoping to add a few points to your LSAT, which be irrelevant to your actual legal career.
Good luck whatever you decide.
« on: July 16, 2014, 10:50:12 AM »
That is an honest and fair assessment excellent post CA Law Dean.
« on: July 15, 2014, 07:49:32 PM »
Good to hear you visited both campuses and one gave you the right gut feeling that is one of the most important things to consider when choosing a school.
I would probably just forget about Michigan at this time and focus on getting ready for FSU and as for whoever is telling you FSU or FU is better for Biglaw they are full of it, the reality is whether you make it into Biglaw has a lot more to do with your connections, personality, etc.
Congrats on your decision and good luck in your pursuit of a J.D.
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