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Roger Williams / Re: Anyone recently attended?
« on: September 09, 2014, 11:30:20 AM »
Roger Williams should certainly open doors for the career you want then.

If you said you wanted to make partner at Cravath by 30 then it would not, but that is why you should take anonymous internet posts with a grain of salt everybody wants much different things.

I personally have no desire to do family/juvenile law, but many people are passionate about it. If this was the path you wanted to pursue then going to Harvard wouldn't even make sense.

One of the most important lessons to learn in the legal profession is to not over complicate things, and selecting a law school is one of the first lessons in that.

It sounds like you want to be a lawyer in Rhode Island. 

There is no better way to accomplish that goal than attending law school in Rhode Island.

Don't start looking at magazine, internet posts, random statistics, etc if you like the school and want to be in Rhode Island it should work out.

Good luck as you pursue a legal career.

Roger Williams / Re: Anyone recently attended?
« on: September 08, 2014, 11:05:13 AM »
First and foremost do not let anonymous internet posters, which include those writing on this board or others myself included to make the life altering commitment of where to attend law school. There is no qualification to write on this board and it is not uncommon for individuals who have 0 experience with law school or the legal profession to loudly announce their opinions anonymously on internet forums such as this. The same applies to my post for all you know I am a crackhead in a public library writing this post.

With that said I believe any incoming law student should consider the following factors in this order when choosing a law school. (1) Location; (2) Cost; (3) Personal Feelings about the school; (4) Understanding the reality of legal education; (5) Last and not least U.S. News Ranking. Here is an article analyzing these factors in detail  below I will analyze them to your situation.

This is the most important consideration when choosing a law school particularly in a state with one law school, such as Rhode Island. I have never been to Rhode Island, but I am sure most judges, lawyers, etc in Rhode Island went to Roger Williams. The law school will have connection in Rhode Island and they will teach for the Rhode Island Bar.

If you want to live in Rhode Island after graduation then go to Roger Williams. Also realize that law school does not exist in a vacuum and the culture, neighborhood, and connections you have or do not have nearby Rhode Island will make a difference in your life. You will in Rhode Island for three years if you attend Roger Williams, I have never met you and know nothing about you maybe Rhode Island is where you want to be if so attend Roger Williams, maybe you despite the State and if that is the case don't go.


Roger Williams Tuition is $40,000 per year and offers on campus living for 21k per year. So you are looking at 61k per year, which is not outrageous as far as law school goes, but without a scholarship you will be $183,000 in debt at graduation. You can make this up as the legal profession can be very rewarding financially if you last the first few years. 

I would encourage you to ask about scholarship options, you have nothing to lose by asking.

Personal Feelings about the School:
How you personally feel about the school is a huge consideration, and it sounds like you did the right thing and visited the school already. During the visit you had a positive experience, which is something to consider. When I was a 0L I visited many schools and some I hated while others I loved. If you liked your experience visiting Roger Williams that is something to consider.

Reality of Legal Education:
At any ABA law school you will learn the exact same thing with a few state law exceptions, but during your first year you will have the following classes whether you attend Harvard or Roger Williams  (1) Torts; (2) Contracts; (3) Property; (4) Civil Procedure; (5) Crim Law/Crim Pro/or Con Law schools typically offer one of these three first year and require you to take the other two during 2L. In those courses you will read Supreme Court Cases and the Supreme Court does not write separate opinions for different law schools, more importantly the law is the law no matter what law school you attend. For example in Civil Procedure you will read Pennoyver v. Neff to learn about Notice, Contracts Hadley v. Baxendale to learn contract remedies; and Torts Palsgraff to learn proximate cause.

At the end of your three years at the ABA law school you attend you will then have to take the bar exam. While facing the stress of the bar exam you will either sign up with Barbri or Kaplan and take a bar review class. At the end of three years and the bar exam course you will be packed into a room with hundreds of other law students from law schools across the country to take the state bar exam. If you pass your a lawyer if you don't your not and it does not matter what law school you attended.

U.S. News Ranking:
Realize that U.S. News is nothing more than a for-profit and unregulated magazine offering an opinion. They rank more than law schools and have determined Albuquerque, New Mexico is the best place to live.

Will you be attend New Mexico Law School for a chance to live in the #1 City? Probably not, making New Mexico is cooler than I thought it was, but I will not make the life altering decision of choosing to move there, because U.S. News said it was #1. Use the same logic when choosing a law school and remember it is a magazine.

If you want to be a lawyer in Rhode Island then there is probably no better place to attend law school than Roger Williams. If your goal is to end up in Oregon then do not attend Roger Williams. Be mindful of costs during law school and be sure the legal profession is something you want to get into.

I have never met you and know nothing about you so I could possibly tell you what the right answer is, but I encourage you to analyze the factors above to your own life and make a decision. I would also encourage to stop listening to anonymous internet posters I realize it is the easiest way to access information, but it is the most unreliable. You should reach out to alumni from Roger Williams and talk to them about their experience. If you talk to people in person you can really gauge their credibility.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Socratic Method / Re: Accidentally Slurred in Class
« on: August 25, 2014, 10:37:50 AM »
I had professors cuss in class a little strange the professor took it up to the Dean. Perhaps it was a student that said something, which is why the Dean is involved, but odds are once he/she hears all you said was bulls**t in class they will say it is unprofessional to use profanity in class you need to use your words carefully as a lawyer, etc .

In the real world people cuss all the time it is not good, but it happens.

I am sure you will be fine bulls**t is not even that bad of word, basically you should be fine if you just apologize and say it won't happen again.

I see this is an old post, but really what all you should do for know is get an LSAT score. Once you have that you will know your options and can consider all the different options etc. Take it one step at a time and you will get there good luck and thank you for your service.

General Board / Re: Changing from a medical career?
« on: August 20, 2014, 10:47:51 AM »
Agreed being a med student etc does not necessarily mean you will do well in law school or the LSAT. I know plenty of people that are geniuses in one thing that could not score 140 on the LSAT, and I could not do the things those people are capable of doing.

Case in point I saw a refrigerator repairman fixing giant freezers yesterday while walking home. I don't know if I could ever begin to figure out how to repair a fridge, and I am guessing that guy could stand studying for an LSAT logic game.

There are different kinds of intelligence and the only way to know if the OP can get a 175 is by actually taking the LSAT.  Anyone that did not bet against any potential LSAT taker scoring a 175 is going to come away broke,  the odds of anyone getting a 175+ on the LSAT are extremely low. It happens, but I would bet significant amounts of money the OP will score a 175+ although I hope he/she does.

General Board / Re: Changing from a medical career?
« on: August 19, 2014, 11:12:45 AM »
As other posters suggested a 170-175 is not easy, and places you in the top 5% of college graduates that were motivated enough to go to law school, study for the LSAT, and had the fortitude to actually take the LSAT. There is a 95% chance you will not score that high. I imagine with your background you can score sufficiently high enough to attend an ABA school, and there is a 5% chance you will score a 170-175.

With that said, I think your best bet is to study for the LSAT and take the test. If you enjoy studying for the LSAT you will probably enjoy law school, and if you get a great score awesome the world is your oyster. If you hate studying for the LSAT and get a terrible score then law school was not for you. I know many people in your situation with an active career, which is where I was when I applied start thinking of the countless possibilities that could happen and put the carriage in front of the horse.

For now give up a few weeks to study for the LSAT and one or two hundred dollars for the test fee. If the score and studying goes well then really consider the pros and cons of law school.  If the score and studying goes poorly then law school is not in the cards, and no need to stress about it.

 Good luck.

If you scored a 165 on the LSAT you will have options at a number of schools. Check out

In addition the location you want to attend school will make a difference. ABA schools in California are often more difficult to get into, because more people are seeking to live in California. If you want to attend North Dakota the admission standards are lower.

If your still in undergrad you may want to sign up for any easy elective classes you have to boost your GPA a bit. Maybe a P.E. class or Sports in film etc just to knock it up a few points. 

Can you get into an ABA law school with your numbers? Yes.

I encourage you to checkout and look at the schools you are interested in to see what your options are.

Good luck.

Job Search / Re: For all those who cry about our jobs stats......
« on: August 13, 2014, 11:08:32 AM »

There are thousands of attorney jobs or other employment opportunities. If you are fortunate enough to graduate from an ABA accredited law school you have had more opportunity than 99% of the world, and if your complaining that it is still not fair then the issues you are facing are self-created.

Law School Applications / Re: Baylor Law Prospective Student!
« on: August 11, 2014, 07:51:28 PM »
161 LSAT and 3.99 GPA are solid.

Remember 161 LSAT puts you in the top 20% of LSAT Test takers, which is not a stupid group. Anyone taking the LSAT is a college graduate that is motivated enough to attend law school and has the fortitude to actually take the test.

As you go down the law school path realize there is a 90% chance you will not be in the top 10% of your class and a 99% chance you will not be in the top 1%. Everyone in law school is smart, hard-working, motivated, with solid backgrounds similar to yours. Everyone on the first day really believes they will be number one just as everyone thinks they can do better on the LSAT. However, if everyone could score 175-180 on the LSAT getting into Harvard would not be much of an accomplishment.

Again, you have some impressive credentials and there is a strong likelihood you  can get into Baylor. If your goal is to go into JAG you can certainly accomplish that from any school with your prior military experience and a J.D.

Good luck as you pursue a legal education.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Thoughts on Touro Law School?
« on: August 11, 2014, 01:49:58 PM »
Any ABA school will provide you with a quality education and if you want to work in Long Island attend law school in Long Island.

With that said I believe any incoming law student should consider the following five factors in this order. (1) Location; (2) Cost; (3) Personal Feelings about School; (4) Understanding the reality of legal education; (5) Last and least U.S. News ranking. I will apply each of these factors to your situation.

1. Location:
You are looking at NY schools, which is a good sign. Many students myself included as a idiotic 0L apply all over the country and think the City you attend law school does not matter, but it is for all intents and purposes the most important factor.

From your post it appears like Long Island is where you want to be so Touro or Hofstra are your best options, and if you can live with your parents and not pay rent for three years that is a significant savings. Additionally, your parents can probably be a source of comfort and take care of a lot of the little random things that will allow you to focus during 1L when it is extremely stressful.

I think Touro or Hofstra would work for location.

2) Cost
Congrats on the scholarship that is great, but one thing to ask is what are the conditions. Most law schools require you to maintain a 3.0 GPA or maintain some standing in the class. As an incoming law student you know your going to work hard and will certainly obtain a 3.0 GPA, but that is what 100% of your class thinks as every law student is smart, hard-working, and motivated. Additionally, law schools is not graded like undergrad and typically only 35% of the class can maintain a 3.0 GPA, which means there is a 65% chance you will lose your scholarship years 2 and 3. I don't know what the conditions of your scholarship are, but I strongly encourage you to ask. This NY Times Article does a great job summing up what happens when law students don't ask.

I also encourage you to negotiate for more scholarship money and better conditions.

You may also want to consider City University of New York since it only $13,000 per year for an in-state resident. In-State ABA schools are the best deal out there if you happen to be a resident of the state, which I assume you are in New York.

(3) Personal Feelings about the school
Another very important factor to consider is your personal feelings about the school. The only person that can really know whether a school fits you is you. Therefore, I strongly encourage you to visit any school you are interested in talk to professors, admins, students, walk around the campus, the neighborhood, and see what school feels right. I visited a number of schools as a OL and there were some that rubbed me the wrong way and others I loved. What is best for you can only be answered by a visit and your gut will have a reaction, which is something you should listen to.

(4) Understanding the Reality of Legal Education:

Whether you attend Touro, Hofstra, St. John's etc you will obtain a quality education. All ABA schools are highly regulated and for all intents and purposes you learn the same thing. During law school you read supreme court cases and the Supreme Court does not write seperate opinions for different schools nor does the law change if you attend a different school.

Many people get all wrapped up in this, but all schools will teach you the law and it will then be up to you pass the bar exam.

(5) U.S. News:
Remember this is nothing more than a for-profit unregulated magazine offering an opinion. Do not let it be the basis of a life altering decision.

Good luck whatever you decide.

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