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Messages - Citylaw

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Loki makes adds a great additional point the curriculum is standardized from Harvard to Cooley. 1L is difficult and if you drop out and reapply you will be in the same boat, but out a year of your life plus several thousand dollars to the school you have already enrolled in. That is assuming another school even lets you in, which there is no guarantee of. 

So unless there is some major personal crisis i.e. your parents were in terrible car accident or you had a stroke or something along those lines dropping out, because you don't like the "environment" is not going to be looked at my most as a valid reason. Every 1L in the first 6-10 weeks of school thinks about quitting I am sure, I know I did, but you made a big decision at least stick it out 1L. If you still hate it after that there might be options, but quitting this early into your 1L is an unwise decision in my anonymous internet poster opinion.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: 2.05 GPA/163 LSAT?
« on: October 23, 2015, 09:00:57 PM »
Makes total sense.

I personally am not a big fan of part-time law school, but it can work for the right person. However, I knew many Part-Time students that failed out, because law school is insanely difficult and balancing a career and school is extremely difficult. Again, it can be done, but I personally feel that school is something you either give your all or don't, but I am just a guy on the internet.

With that said there are many part-time programs available and if a local school is not available then I believe it is Hamline Law School that offers a partial online J.D., which is ABA approved.   That is the only ABA approved law school I know of that offers any type of online flexibly scheduled and am ABA approved degree is a lot better to have than a non-ABA approved degree, but exceptions exist.

Again, awesome job getting a 163 that is a great score and good luck in your legal career.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: 2.05 GPA/163 LSAT?
« on: October 23, 2015, 07:41:16 PM »
Great job on the LSAT.

There are a number of ABA schools you can get into here is the LSAC Calculator-predictor results.  . If Tennessee is where you want to live you have a legit shot at getting into the University of Tennessee Law School.

The non-traditional aspect will not do much one way or the other.

Basically, you have a ton of options it just comes down to where you want to go. Obviously, Harvard, Yale, Stanford are not happening, but I would say you have a good shot at half of the ABA schools in the country.

It is a matter of where you want to go and here is a good article explaining how to choose a law school.

Well don't worry to much about the ranking of your school etc.

If you graduate from an ABA or even provisionally accredited ABA school you can take the bar and become an attorney. Once you are out of the law school bubble nobody will care much about what school you went to or what grades you got. I got yelled at by a judge today, because I didn't fill out a judicial council form I was supposed to. I got the highest grade in Civil Procedure years ago, but guess how much that mattered today and how much it was discussed? - Not at all.

So if you hate the school you hate the school, but I am getting the sense that maybe you read one to many anonymous internet poster opinions regarding the legal job-market and that if you don't attend Harvard your doomed. - That is all false, instead apply common sense.

Well this provisional ABA school open every possible door at graduation? No. 

Is your career forever doomed, because you went to X school? No.

Law school is hard and difficult, but the environment is important. If you really hate the school, but enjoy the study of law or want to be a lawyer you can get through the year and transfer or apply to be a visiting student somewhere. Or you can also just get through two more years of law school, pass the bar and never look back.

I think you can drop out, but if your in the first 8 weeks of 1L and drop out I find it highly unlikely you will enroll elsewhere. Also, if you just hate law school then pull the plug, but if you like law school, but just think your school is not "good" enough then deal with it. Believe it or not 95% of lawyers did not attend the top 5% of schools i.e T14.

Also, you must have only been in school for 8-9 weeks? It might be a little early to pull the plug.

I remember in about October of my 1L at a far from elite ABA school I did terrible on my midterms and thought about pulling the plug myself. I blamed the school, professors, etc everyone but myself, because I should have been at a "better" school, because the LSAT was b.s. the school was wrong, because I was not a star in my less than "school".

However, I really enjoyed the law and wanted to be a lawyer, but I realized this profession will not make you feel like a special little snowflake. However, I took some accountability for myself and instead of quitting kicked ass and ended up in the top 10% of my law school class. I could have transferred to other schools, but by then I had made great friends and developed solid relationships with my professors.

During the first 8 weeks I hated my school as well, but by sticking with it I did a huge 180. Will the same happen for you? I don't know, but honestly your only 8 weeks in that is not enough time to know anything. If after the end of 1L you hate everything still then maybe law is not for you. Or maybe you will be in the top 10% and can transfer elsewhere if you still hate your school. Simply put give it more than eight weeks before making the drastic decision of quitting.


I don't know anything about you, your situation, or what is best for you. I am some random guy on the internet as is anyone else on this board or others so take this post and others with a major grain of salt.

Law school is hard and the first 8 weeks are probably the most stressful part of the whole experience and many people want to quit during that time.  I personally think it is to early to make any decisions you are 8 weeks into a 3 year odyssey. You might love your school in another 8 weeks and if your goal is to be a lawyer I wouldn't quit. If you hate the law and everything about it then quit.

However, if you think dropping out now and going to some slightly better "ranked" school next year will make anything better it won't. Realize U.S. News is nothing more than a for-profit unregulated magazine offering an opinion so don't make a life altering decision on it.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: 153 LSAT 3.7 GPA - What do I do now?
« on: October 23, 2015, 02:40:04 PM »
Excellent response by Loki.

However, one thing to really understand for OP is DO NOT CARE about the rankings. Please read a seperate post I wrote here.

Essentially, the rankings change drastically year by year minus the top schools. Harvard, Yale, Stanford are great schools I personally don't know if Boulder or Denver is "ranked" higher nor would anyone really care. Both are ABA schools that will provide a quality education.

For further insight read this article on how to choose a law school.

It sounds like you want to live in Colorado post-graduation. Therefore, go to Colorado or Denver.

You can take the December LSAT or February one. I personally would just apply to the schools you are interested in with your current score, but before applying contact the admissions office of the schools you are interested and ask what the school's policy on retaking is. Each school has a different process so ask them directly, although Loki and I can offer some general advice the University of Colorado Admissions Office will know a lot more about the University of Colorado Admissions policies than two random guys on the internet.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: 153 LSAT 3.7 GPA - What do I do now?
« on: October 23, 2015, 01:54:18 PM »
I agree the OP should retake, but no harm in applying and retaking.

If OP gets a 160 great, but practice is just that.

The real LSAT is different than practice. I scored high on quite a few "practice exams", but I gave myself a few extra minutes on the test, made a few quirks etc. Not to mention the real pressure of the exam v practice.

I hope OP gets a 180 on his LSAT and gets a full ride to Harvard, but odds are he/she will score around 150 and maybe get a 160.

Of course do the best you can on the LSAT, but at some point you accept your score.

OP can apply now and retake in December and even February and June before actually enrolling. If his/her scores remain around 150 then that is what it is. If he/she gets a 173 then reapply.

So just as you have little to lose by taking the LSAT you have little to lose by applying. Do both, because if you put off applications and continue getting 150's then you just put off a year of your life to be in the same spot your in now. If you get a 160-170 then the year off was worth it and you can not enroll and reapply.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: 153 LSAT 3.7 GPA - What do I do now?
« on: October 23, 2015, 12:13:52 PM »
First off congrats on taking the LSAT. I don't know how many people talk about it, but never actually take it.

Now that you have numbers what you do is apply to law school.  Furthermore, 153 is not a terrible score, but certainly not great either.  However, you can get into about 100 ABA schools with your numbers.

Your numbers give you a strong shot at Denver College of Law as-is. (see the official guide)

I hate to break it to you, but odds are you will not get a 160+ on the LSAT. This is nothing against you, but that is the 80th percentile of college graduates that are smart and hard-working enough to even take the LSAT.  153 puts you in the top 40%, which is still pretty good.

I scored lower than a 160 on the LSAT, but graduated from law school, passed the bar, got a job etc. 

I think your experiencing is the reality check most OL's go through. With a 3.7 GPA it seems like you were a great student the star of the class, but in law school everyone was the star of the class in undergrad and law school is a different level.

153 is not great, not bad it is fine. When you enroll in law school everyone will think the LSAT was a fluke, but they will surely be in the top 10% of the class, but obviously 90% of them cannot be.

Next Steps:
Apply to law school with your current numbers and re-take the LSAT if you want. You have nothing to lose, but 153 will get you into law school and if you get a 160 on your retake then revaluate your applications, but odds are you will get around a 153 again.

Again, congrats on taking the LSAT and having the option to attend law school. Good luck in your legal career!

Personal Statement / Re: Anyone want to swap personal statements?
« on: October 22, 2015, 12:46:23 PM »
You can pm it to me and I will take a look. However, as this post indicates don't stress to much about your personal statement.

News Discussion / Re: POTUS
« on: October 20, 2015, 12:18:23 PM »
Yea more power to you if you enjoy politics great, plenty of people do.

To me personally it has about as much merit as the Kardashians, Pardon the Interruption (My favorite show two guys rambling about sports) or some other random form of entertainment.

I honestly think everyone running is capable of doing a fine job and at the end of the day with all our checks & balances it will not make much difference who wins.

The day we are not allowed to female dog & moan about politicians or any of the Bill of Rights are infringed, which is happening at Guantanamo Bay we are fine.

The only thing I actually care about politically related is GITMO, because throwing people in jail without any actual charges or a trial on an island in Cuba violates the Bill of Rights.

Other than that common-sense will prevail. People can female dog about taxes, abortion, healthcare whatever, but people can talk about those things and make changes. A politician is not necessary if enough people want something to change it well.

News Discussion / Re: POTUS
« on: October 18, 2015, 08:39:09 PM »
Why does anyone care about politics?

I would bet significant sums of money that it is a race between Clinton & Bush who are both fine. They are both agreeable enough and not that crazy and will do a fine job.

Maybe Bernie Sanders or Ben Carson will somehow win, which is fine to.

You know what even if Trump wins there are balance of powers to level him out, and he is just a publicity whore I doubt he would actually do any real work if elected. So nothing good or bad would happen.

I think people care way to much about politicians, they will not solve your problems or make them any worse. Maybe some bill they pass will offer some minor assistance or it might hurt you a little, but honestly how much different would your life be if Bob Dole won in 1996? Or Gore in 2000? Kerry in 2004? McCain in 2008? Romney in 2012?

I imagine it would more or less be exactly the same. I didn't chose to attend law school, because Obama won the election in 2008, I didn't pass the bar, because Romeny lost. etc, etc.

Novus didn't win its lawsuit against Touro, because Obama was president.

Law School Discussion didn't lose all its membership to TLS, because Obama was president either. People care way to much and it is just pointless politics that will make very little impact on anyone's life.

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