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Hofstra U School of Law / Re: Paul Campos on Hofstra Law
« on: October 15, 2013, 01:21:54 AM »
You are right I was a year off, but many schools are going down including Mr. Campos's University of Colorado.

Median GPA 3.64
Median LSAT 164


Median GPA 3.58
Median LSAT 162

Law school applications are down substantially across the Country so I imagine the numbers at the majority of schools are dropping. However, none of that really matters as I have been saying all along any ABA school will provide you with a quality education and we can nitpick numbers all day, but they really are meaningless in determining who will or will not succeed in the legal profession. Simply because University of Colorado's Median GPA and LSAT went down this year does not mean the professor's became worse or the facilities became dilapidated. It is all the same and at Colorado as with Hofstra a quality education will be provided and it will be up to the Students to determine how they use it.

A little late, but frankly there is no major that will prepare you for law school. What you need to do is focus on getting the highest possible GPA you can in undergrad and do not even think about the LSAT for the next few years. More importantly study what you want in undergrad for a career you might want to pursue. There is a good chance your desire to attend law school could fizzle out and if you took courses solely for the purposes of law school you may regret it particularly since law schools truly do not care what your major is.

Enjoy undergrad and get the best GPA you possibly can. Also take a few fluff classes if you can to pad your transcripts with a few easy A's boosting your GPA will never hurt you.

As for the LSAT don't even worry about that right now you will be dealing with freshman year in College and it can be a difficult time and you want to do as well as possible.

Good luck in your pursuit of a legal career.

Pre-Law in high school / Re: Being a runner
« on: October 15, 2013, 12:28:34 AM »
When you say runner what does that entail exactly? Just filing documents at the Courthouse?

If that is the case everything should be fine all you are doing is having the clerk stamp documents then bringing them back. It is a good gig for a high school kid and you can read the motions, pleadings, etc so you have some flavor for the law.

Good luck on your pursuit of a legal career and feel free to post on this board with other questions you might have since it can be a quality resource. Good luck.

Hofstra U School of Law / Re: Paul Campos on Hofstra Law
« on: October 15, 2013, 12:18:07 AM »

Here is the official ABA data from LSAC for the past four years.

While the Median GPA went down last year the median LSAT went up from 158 to 160. Additionally, the school's admission standards have gone up every year below are the specific median GPA/LSATS over the past four years notice the GPA had gone up every year.

Hofstra 2010-2013 Median GPA/LSAT

Median GPA 3.28
LSAT 155

Median GPA 3.56
LSAT 157

Median GPA 3.58
LSAT 158

Median GPA down to 3.32
Median LSAT up to 160

Just for fun let's again rip on Mr. Campos whose school has not improved as much as Hofstra over the past 4 years.

Colorado Numbers 2010-2013

Median GPA 3.66
Median LSAT 163

Median GPA 3.68
Median LSAT 163

Median GPA DOWN to 3.61
Median LSAT 164

Median GPA 3.64
Median LSAT 164

Pretty Stagnant on University of Colorado's end and since 2010

Hofstra overall median GPA since 2010 even with the drop this year is up overall .4 and their Median LSAT has gone up 5 points.

Colorado since 2010 overall GPA is down .02 and their LSAT has improved by 1 point.

Again Mr. Campos should probably focus on the issues at his own school, which has been stagnant and just dropped seven spots in the rankings this year itself.

I feel bad for ripping on Colorado this much as I am sure it is a fine school, but for a professor who school is in disrepair and has itself raised it's tuition from $22,000 per year in tuition in 2010 to it's current $31,000 per year in tuition price tag should focus on improving issues at his school not ripping on a school in another state.

Again, I do not mean to discredit the University of Colorado Law School, but Mr. Campos ragging on other schools is completely unprofessional and he is embarrassing their school. I am sure both Hofstra and Colorado along with every other ABA school provide a quality education.

Hofstra U School of Law / Re: Paul Campos on Hofstra Law
« on: October 14, 2013, 09:09:23 PM »
Yea Paul Campos can comment all he wants, but just to clarify he is not an expert.

Is law school tuition to expensive? I would agree, but Hofstra doesn't charge much more than other schools and it is located in NY, which is one of the most expensive places in the United States so it is not that surprising.

As for $55,000 at graduation that is not uncommon and a newly licensed lawyer truthfully has no idea what they are doing. After a few years of experience the salaries increase significantly, but entry level lawyers do not make much money. Entry level doctors make even less than lawyers and their tuition is more expensive and getting an M.D. takes four years. For example a University of Texas M.D. Resident makes $51,859.

The salaries increase in both the Medical and Legal Fields, but the first few years are brutal. You have tremendous responsibility in either position and you barely known anything when you first graduate. I will also say that if your goal is to be "rich" don't go to law school or into medicine. You can make a lot more money in sales, insurance, banking, etc, but the legal and medical professions give you the ability to do things nobody else can and if you really want to be a doctor or lawyer then it can be a rewarding career. If the sole purpose of going to law school is to make money you will be probably be disappointed.

I can tell you I love my job as an attorney and the thrill of being in a trial cannot be matched. I could be making more money doing something else, but I love being a lawyer. If you really want to be a lawyer or doctor then any accredited school can give you the tools to succeed.

If you want to look at numbers and stats etc go for it, but it doesn't mean anything. Additinoally, Paul Campos is a fraud he criticizes professors for not having enough legal experience, but he himself is a professor that has never practiced law.

Paul Campos rips on Hofstra for being to expensive and not placing students. However, he is a law professor at Colorado, which charges $31,000 for residents or 38,000 for non-residents. Since you seem to think Law School Transparency has so much value it should be noted the school paying Paul Campos's salary has the same 51% LST score as Hofstra the school he is criticizing as being out of date.

51.4% employment score

51.2% employment score

Again as I have said throughout this thread Hofstra is not some elite institution and frankly outside of the TOP law schools the rankings, placement numbers, etc are up to the individual student. Plenty of people succeed from Hofstra and plenty do not.

Paul Campos though is the classic example of a guy talking out of his ass and doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. Seriously, if I was his student and my tuition dollars were going to a man writing how bad legal education is I would lose my sh**. If this guy really cared he should not collecting tuition checks, but he doesn't he wants to make money anyway he can and rip on a school across the Country that is performing at the same level as the one he is collecting checks from.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Please help make law school decision
« on: October 14, 2013, 08:42:42 PM »
Did you end up attending Chapman or Hastings? If so how is it going?

Golden Gate / In Vino Veritas Competition
« on: October 14, 2013, 08:00:58 PM »
Golden Gate successfully held the second annual In Vino Veritas Mock Trial Competition. Numerous Judges, Attorneys, and Political Figures attended and professor Wes Porter has been doing an excellent job with Golden Gate's litigation program.

More information on the competition can be obtained here.

I think Golden Gate is on the right track and doing a great job with their students.

What does that blog have do with University of Florida?

Although I have never been to UF I am sure it is the same as any ABA law school and on top of that UF actually has one of the lowest tuition rates in the nation.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Barry or Coastal?
« on: October 14, 2013, 06:56:15 PM »
Just though I would share some good news about Barry than won a Mock Trial competition in San Francisco beating in state Rivals Stetson and Florida State along with ten other schools. I was in a judge in this competition and was impressed with all schools involved, but Barry definitely deserved the win.

The results also show it is about the individual student not the name of the law school.

Hofstra U School of Law / Re: Paul Campos on Hofstra Law
« on: October 14, 2013, 06:52:20 PM »
Maintain is correct schools such as Harvard, Yale, etc have much higher placement rates, but nobody cares about the difference between 89th and 113. In New York Columbia and NY are elite schools, but you didn't need U.S. News to tell you that.

As to your point that rankings have a direct impact on Law School Transparency that is untrue.  Let us look specifically at New York Schools and your citation to St. John's. Hofstra has a higher Law School Transparency Score than St. John's and again I don't think law school transparency stats mean much of anything, but the list below just shows rankings have no impact on LST employment scores. I will say I am 100% behind the mission of LST, but as I stated before measuring what individuals do with their life is nearly impossible.

List of NY Schools Employment Scores and U.S. News Ranks:

I have excluded Columiba, NYU, Cornell since they are in the top 25 and that means something.

 51.2 % Employment Score

U.S. News Rank: 6 way tie for 113th

St. John's
 49.1% employment score
U.S. News Rank 6 way tie for 98th.

Other NY Schools not including Columbia, Cornell, NYU, and Fordham, which do have higher employment rates, because they are elite schools the rest nobody cares if a school is ranked #72 or 109.

 50.2% employment score

U.S. News Rank 2 way tie for 132nd place

 48% employment score
U.S. News Rank 6 way tie for 80th place

53% employment score
U.S. News Rank 3 way tie for 58th

 52% employment score

U.S. News Rank 2 way tie for 132nd

New York Law School
39.4% employment score

U.S. News: Unranked.

47.8% employment score

U.S. News Rank: 6 way tie for 134th place

45.4% employment score

U.S. News Rank: 2 way tie for 96th

SUNY Buffalo
Employment score 51.2

U.S. News Rank:
5 way tie for 86th

49.6% employment score

U.S. News Unranked

The rankings range from 58  to unranked and not one of these schools has over a 55% employment score. Many with higher employment scores are "ranked" higher.

Remember U.S. News is nothing more than a for-profit, unregulated magazine that is offering an opinion. Schools rankings change drastically year by year for no real reason here is the rankings for the past 5 years Hofstra in 2009 was out of the top 100 then in 2011 worked its way into the amazing 11 way tie for 84th place and it has gone down again. Also since U.S. News can do whatever they want there are no tier 4 schools anymore they changed the system last year and instead of ranking the top 100 then having a tier 3 and tier 4. They decided to rank up to 150 and not rank the rest so Hofstra can't fall to tier 4 it doesn't exist anymore.

Additionally, GPA only makes up 12% of the rankings the majority of it is based on people filling out scantrons. Also remember U.S. News is a for-profit magazine that ranks more than law schools and decided Albuquerque, New Mexico is the #1 place to live. Citation here does that actually make New Mexico the best place to live?

Again in the end Hofstra is a decent school and U.S. News Rankings and Law School Transparency are not something anyone should make a life altering decision based on.

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