Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Citylaw

Pages: 1 ... 22 23 24 25 26 [27] 28 29
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: Distance Learning
« on: October 14, 2013, 01:07:03 PM »
Don't most foreign students have to get an LLM in America to sit for the California Bar Exam. I knew a number of international students that were attorneys in their countries, but had to complete an LLM to sit for the California Bar.

Hofstra U School of Law / Re: Paul Campos on Hofstra Law
« on: October 14, 2013, 01:23:36 AM »
What does it matter if the GPA drops?

Frankly there will always be unemployed individuals from every institution in every field. I am not sure if you have gone through law school or not, but I just judged at a Mock Trial Competition this weekend and most of my classmates where there. We graduated a few years ago and all of us are employed now. For many of these people it took a year or longer to find their first legal job and the law is like every other profession it takes time to start a career. Additionally,  if you finish in the bottom half of the class at Hofstra, which 50% of the 2012 Class did or don't pass the bar first time around, which 21% of the 2012 did it will difficult to find employment nine months after graduation.

No school anywhere guarantees you a job and no law school guarantees  you will pass the bar except Marquette & University of Wisconsin due to the state of Wisconsin's bar admission rules. Livinglegend and Maintain are right on point with everything they have said.

You are also correct there will be people from Hofstra that do not find employment as lawyers or pass the bar, but there are no guarantees anywhere. Hofstra will provide you with a solid legal education as will any other ABA school, but graduating from there will not guarantee you a job or even that you will pass the bar.

There are plenty of successful Hofstra Alumni here is a list of 460 Super Lawyers from the School. so plenty of people make it from there and many do not same can be said about every single ABA schools. Not even Stanford or Harvard have 100% employment or bar passage rates.

Hofstra U School of Law / Re: Paul Campos on Hofstra Law
« on: October 12, 2013, 01:53:52 PM »
Paul Campos is a law professor who rags on the law schools. If he was that much of a crusader for legal education and how awful why does he collect checks from an ABA law school?

He is not an expert just a guy trying to make some money and good for him. My credentials I will leave anonymous, but I have gone through law school and got hired as an attorney the day I got my successful bar results back. The majority of my classmates did as well and the bottom line is no matter what career you pursue it will be tough.

Paul Campos is a joke if he is such a great legal educator why doesn't he focus on teaching the students who are paying his salary at Colorado instead of writing books diminishing the legal profession. Individuals like Mr. Campos pretend to be crusaders, but are complete sellouts.

It probably won't matter as much once you are hired, but if your coming into an interview and competing with hundreds of other people who will also be recent graduates as experienced as you the Dreads may turn some places off, but other places may like it.

If you want to work in Biglaw coming in with giant dreads will not go over well, but if you want to do criminal defense or eviction work then dreads might be fine. Really depends on where you want to work.

Hofstra U School of Law / Re: Hofstra falls 113th in US News
« on: October 11, 2013, 02:21:50 AM »
Could not agree more and as an FYI if you want to know the standards used by U.S. News Rankings here they are

40% of the rankings are based on lawyers and judges filling out scantrons ranking schools as 1 or 5. Who these lawyers and judges are is unidentified and I find it unlikely any lawyer or judge marking these Scranton visits each ABA law school every year.

Undergrad GPA makes up 10%, but again this just looks at the number so a 3.1 in Nuclear Physics from Harvard looks worse than a 4.0 in underwater Basket Weaving from Timbucktu State.

The LSAT makes up 12.5% and the test is by no means perfect, but at least this is an objective criteria and if U.S. News made this one of the standards I would have less of an issue, but it only makes up 12.5% and this is the one factor that can be objectively measured.

Acceptance Rate 2% and schools manipulate this to no degree offering fee waivers to people simply so they can reject them this is a tremendous waste of resources for everyone involved and I don't know how rejecting more applicants than another school improves the legal education at the institution.

Placement 20% that is not crazy, but again these numbers can be greatly manipulated and schools engage in number manipulation here as well. Additionally legal education is a long-term investment and a legal career lasts a lot longer than 9 months and these short time also puts schools in States that take longer to return bar exam results at a disadvantage. If they calculated it one year after bar results were released to put each school on level playing ground it would be a better system,but even then the person looking for a job has a lot more ability to get placed than the school can give them.

I know at my law school there were people I would not trust to feed my cat and would never want them to be my lawyer and they were others in my school that were highly competent. Unsurprisingly everyone I knew that was normal and competent found employment. The weird, smelly a-hole kid who missed half the classes and showed up 20 minutes late to the Final spends his time writing on Facebook about how awful the legal job market it, but the problem is him not the legal market.

Bar Passage Rate: 2% I would think being able to pass the licensing exam in a jurisdiction would be a pretty important indicator as to the quality of legal education, but the powers that be have made it the lowest weight factor. Literally if a school rejects more applicants than they will increase their ranking more than if they improve bar passage %

Rounding it up Faculty Resources 15%
I don't really have an issue with that the amount of books, student faculty ratio, etc means something and 15% is a reasonable number.

However, U.S. News doesn't care and shouldn't people buy the magazine blindly and make life altering decisions based on it and come away with a huge profit. I don't blame U.S. News for capitalizing on this market and that is why they rank Cities, Hospitals, or anything else they can turn a profit on. I don't think they are even imply there rankings are the Gold Standard they are offering their opinion the same as I am on this board, but nobody should make a life altering decision based on what I or U.S. News says.

Bottom line to any 0L's or 1L's considering transferring please do not make a life altering decision regarding your legal education on U.S. News opinion. Use your common sense obviously Harvard will open more doors than Wayne State, but no attorney out there cares if Wayne State is ranked higher than Williamette.

Stepping off Soap Box and again could not agree more with Maintain FL

Transferring / Re: Do I have a chance? I have no hope...
« on: October 11, 2013, 01:59:30 AM »
First off realize anyone on this board or others is nothing more than an anonymous internet poster and take anything you hear on this board or others with a grain of salt my advice included.

With that said reading your post it appears you are taking rankings far to seriously remember that U.S. News is nothing more than a for profit magazine offering an opinion and they rank more than law schools. New Mexico is the #1 place to live citation here should make the life altering decision to move to New Mexico, because U.S. News said it was #1? I imagine you would think that is crazy and so is deciding where to spend three years of your life, 100k of your money, and your legal education it is a magazine nothing more.

When choosing a school you really need to consider (1) Location (2) Cost (3) Personal Feelings about the School. (4) Understanding the reality of legal education (5) If all else fails then use U.S. News as a tiebreaker, but it is LAST not first.

1. Location
This is most important aspect in your law school decision and it sounds like your common sense is kicking in because you want to return to Michigan. If Michigan is where you want to be then attend law school in Michigan. You will be in law school for 3 years maybe 2 in your case depending if a school acknowledges your 1L year. So at a minimum you will living wherever you attend law school for two years and during that time you will get an apartment, internships, make friends, etc in that location then you will likely take the State Bar your school is located in and once you take one bar you will not be eager to take another one.

Keep it simple if you want to be in Michigan attend law school in Michigan there are plenty of schools Cooley, Detroit Mercy, Wayne State, and Michigan State are all ABA accredited schools that do not have tremendously high admission standards, but will provide you with a solid legal education.

2. Cost
If financial reasons resulted in you leaving the first time make sure it doesn't happen again try to get a scholarship from schools in Michigan or try to find a school that offer's in-state tuition in an area you want to live in.

3. Personal Feelings About the School

Having gone through 1 year of law school I imagine you came to like some things at the school you attended and disliked others. Every school will have their pros and cons if your first school was a good fit then try going back, but also visit other schools and see what they have to offer

4. Reality of Legal Education
Remember the education at every ABA school is exactly the same the Supreme Court does not write different opinions for each law school. I imagine I did not attend your law school, but I am sure you took Civil Procedure and read Pennoyver v. Neff and International Shoe to learn personal jurisdiction then in Torts you read Palsgraf to learn proximate cause and you also took Contracts and read the hairy hand case, Property, and Crim Pro/Crim Law.

No matter what school you attend the law doesn't change.

5. U.S. News

Do not make a life altering choice based on this magazine and just to show you how ridiclous this magazine is there no longer is T1, T2, T3, T4 schools they changed the rankings so they go up to 150 and the rest is tier 2.

So if you attend an ABA school you will attend a Tier 2 school now the T4 does not exist anymore so no worries. As an additional factor look at this chart and you can see how much schools change ranking year by year and is all based on nothing. obivously Harvard, Stanford and Yale are in the top, but a school like NorthEastern had the following rankings between 2009-2013 86*    76*    71*    86*    94* the stars also indicate "ties" and I know in 2011 there was an 11 way tie for 84th place so the rankings mean very little and should not be the basis of a life altering decision.

Use it as a tiebreaker nothing more.

Good luck on restarting your legal education and please do not fall into the trap of taking U.S. News seriously and use your common sense when making the life altering decision of where to attend law school.

Non-Traditional Students / Re: What should I do?
« on: October 10, 2013, 02:03:40 AM »
The bottom line is no career is guaranteed as you are seeing in your current situation.

Also do not read into statistics to much they can be manipulated tremendously. I graduated last year from a not top 10 law school and found a job as an attorney that I truly enjoy and basically every normal person from my school got a job. If you attend law school, pass the bar, and behave like a normal person you can find employment, but you are unlikely to start out with a high salary, but the more years of experience you have the more valuable you become.

You should be wary of costs, because as a slightly older person you do have less time to recoup your investment, but you will be 37 when you graduate and pass the bar, which will leave you with a solid 30+ years to practice law.

Something to note is that many schools offer scholarships or in-state tuition and getting out with less debt is the way to go.

It also likes you must have some interest in law school if you already attended and want to come back. I say go for it, but consider cost and location in your decision. Good luck!

Hofstra U School of Law / Re: Hofstra falls 113th in US News
« on: October 10, 2013, 01:39:50 AM »
Could not agree more and here is a chart to show how ridiculous the rankings are. Hofstra is a classic example in 2009 Hofstra was not in the top 100 in 2011 it rose to the amazing 11 way tie for 84th place, but promptly feel back to the bottom 100.

Remember that U.S. News is nothing more than a for-profit unregulated magazine offering an opinion. If you want to live your life by U.S. News rankings then you need to move to New Mexico since it is the #1 place to live case in point .

However, New Mexico law school has also done quite the rise on fall #64 in 2009 dropping to #79, but it is on the rise again.

What changed at New Mexico, Hofstra or any of these schools? Nothing same professors etc, but U.S. News just pumps out the rankings as they should they make a lot of money of it, but it should not be the basis of a life altering decision such as choosing a law school

Hofstra U School of Law / Re: Paul Campos on Hofstra Law
« on: October 10, 2013, 01:25:44 AM »
These stats get so manipulated and posts like this give such an incorrect impression. Is it hard to start out as a lawyer? Yes.

Is Hofstra an amazing institution? No.

Will Hofstra teach you the law? Yes

The bottom with Hofstra or any law school or any form of education out there is that graduating is a minimum and a career lasts for a long time. In every form of education whether it be Business, Law, Engineering it is difficult to start out and law takes even more time because you cannot even work as an attorney until your bar results get released and assuming you pass the first time around, which many people do not you cannot work as an attorney.

The reality is that if you want to be a lawyer go to law school, but do not expect millions to be handed to you for graduating. Any ABA law school will provide you with a solid legal education and give you a chance to take the bar exam. If you pass the bar exam you will given a license to practice law and what you do with that license has a lot more to do with the individual than the name of the school on the degree.

I will agree that law school tuition is to high and if you attend school in a large market I.E. San Francisco or New York the expenses is even more than usual.

Bottom line is Hofstra some awful institution? No.

Is it overpriced? Probably

Can you have a successful legal career or Hofstra from any law school? Yes, but it is a lot more up to the individual than the law school they provide you with an education, but once your in the working world it is tough whether it be law or any other profession.

If there is some job that offers millions of dollars, offers complete job satisfaction, and the positions are just being handed out please let me any everyone else on this board know.

Law School Applications / Re: 3.2 GPA LSAT???
« on: October 09, 2013, 02:25:06 AM »
Congrats on completing the first major step towards a law degree. The relief you feel with the end of each step cannot be described until you go through nor can the pressure.

I am sure you will do fine on the LSAT and have options then law school will begin and plenty of posters on this site are happy to offer advice on excelling during your first year.

Congrats again on stepping up and taking the test.

Pages: 1 ... 22 23 24 25 26 [27] 28 29