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Messages - Citylaw

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251
L.L.M. Board / Re: LLM in tax without a JD
« on: November 05, 2013, 08:02:01 PM »
That makes sense I imagine no school offering a Tax Law LLM would be opposed to having a tuition paying  tax professional in their school.

I also imagine the restrictions on LLM's are not as strict as those for a J.D. program so they could make exceptions along the way.

 Out of curiosity I did a quick Google search to determine if the ABA even regulates LLM's, but came up with varying results  does anyone know if the ABA regulates LLM's?


252
Syracuse / Re: Warning regarding Syracuse Law
« on: November 04, 2013, 09:34:00 PM »
Old post, but interesting insight about attrition. It does seem as though very few schools fail students out and there were definitely a few people at my school that did not seem capable of feeding a cat yet alone passing the bar and none of them did.

I do think education in all facets is becoming to lax everyone is supposed to get a participation ribbion and told how special they are, which I imagine is what is leading to the high rates of unemployment among grads in all forms of education rather than the educational quality or even economy.

The legal profession is tough and many schools I visited seem to coddle law students opposed to prepare them for the realities of legal practice and I think it is institutional laziness and wanting to avoid conflict with students that is leading to a lot of problems in the profession.

I would before requiring all students to pass the First Year Bar Exam as non ABA California law schools are required to do.  Better to find out you don't have what it takes one year in opposed to three years in.

253
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: New Law School Rankings
« on: November 04, 2013, 08:58:02 PM »
Legend I am pretty sure most people thought Stanford was a joke l until this new ranking methodology came out. It has really opened my eyes and had this been out when I was applying I would have chosen to attend Stanford, but how could I have known possibly known how well regarded it was prior to this new system?


254
L.L.M. Board / Re: LLM in tax without a JD
« on: November 04, 2013, 08:49:41 PM »
Yea I was under the impression a J.D. was a prereq to an LLM program, but I imagine the best people to ask our admissions officers of the various LLM programs.

I would think having a tax law L.L.M without a J.D. would be a bad idea. Nobody other than lawyers have any idea what an LLM is and without a J.D. it would just seem off, but I am just some guy posting on the internet what do I know.

255
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: Distance Learning
« on: October 29, 2013, 09:16:35 PM »
Agreed each state bar has their own rules and you don't want to go through law school only to find out you cannot get licensed or have to go through a Supreme Court battle to obtain a license.

California is probably the most liberal of states when allowing individuals to take the exam, but even they have restrictions and they can decide to say no so as Jonlevy suggests get everything in writing and talk to the State Bar before you are interested in joining prior to paying a dime in tuition.

If the school can you get a bar exam ticket then you can get a license and once your licensed you have the ability to practice law and whether you succeed or fail will be up to you.


256
Hofstra U School of Law / Re: Paul Campos on Hofstra Law
« on: October 29, 2013, 09:09:11 PM »
I think there is an east coast bias the world always is usually an overstatement, but  I get what legend is saying. U.S. News is located in Washington D.C. http://www.usnews.com/info/features/about-usnews this means they are on the East Coast and therefore the peer assessement/lawyer's judges they use to evaluate are likely on the East Coast.

U.S. News does not conduct site visits of any schools and it is all based on paper and numbers. Obviously schools with closer proximity to D.C. will have more alumni connections etc to those publishing the magazine.

Use Hofstra for example 2.59-3.59 GPA LSAT 153-159

Chapman Southern California ranked lower than Hofstra despite 3.2-3.6 GPA (higher on both ends) LSAT 154-160 (higher on both ends)

McGeorge 3.1-3.67 LSAT 152-160 again ranked lower than Hofstra.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html chart to prove it.

Remember 40% of the rankings is based off people filling out scantrons and people vote with what they are familiar with and U.S. News does not have the resources nor are they required to scour the Country for the most in depth information. They are a magazine offering an opinion and frankly they can do whatever they want, but it is up to the consumers prospective law students to use common sense when making a 3 year, $100,000 and career altering decision and realize these rankings are flawed and I agree there likely is an East Coast Bias just like there is in BCS Football Rankings, etc.

Here is a nice wikipedia article explaining west coast bias http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Coast_bias and I do not believe U.S. News is immune to them nor should they be they are a magazine nothing offering an opinion and evaluate schools based on any criteria they want.

University of the Pacific


257
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Barry or Coastal?
« on: October 27, 2013, 03:08:43 PM »
Indeed or in the vast majority of the legal profession or any profession if you get results nobody cares where you came from.

Tom Brady was the 199th Draft Pick

The following QB's were drafted ahead of him

 Chad Pennington, Marshall - Drafted by the New York Jets in Round 1, Pick 18.
Giovanni Carmazzi, Hofstra - Drafted by the San Francisco 49ers in Round 3, Pick 65.
Chris Redman, Louisville - Drafted by the Baltimore Ravens in Round 3, Pick 75.
Tee Martin, Tennessee - Drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers in Round 5, Pick 163.
Marc Bulger, West Virginia - Drafted by the New Orleans Saints in Round 6, Pick 168.
Spergon Wynn, SW Texas State - Drafted by the Cleveland Browns in Round 6, Pick 183.

None of them are in the league anymore and the only two that had any impact were Chad and Mark.

Tom Brady got results and is going to the Hall of Fame and may be one of the greatest QB's of all time.

The same story can be told in every profession and if you apply yourself in anything you can accomplish great things. Barry stepped up and beat schools like University of Texas, Hastings, University of Florida etc all of them are fine schools, but that Barry team was the best and they won.

258
There are plenty of books out there, but all you can really do is practice the test questions.

Go straight to the LSAC practice test http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/jd-docs/sampleptjune.pdf I think this is the June 2007 LSAT and get as many from LSAC as possible. Keep taking the tests learn the nuances and you will get a score.

Your major doesn't mean much as far as law school admissions, but since your only a sophomore do not change your major decision based on possibly attending law school. A lot can happen in the next two years and you may change your mind or you may not score as highly as you need to on the LSAT. Just don't make life altering decisions in undergrad based on possibliy wanting to go to law school stick with the major you want now.

In the meantime just practice LSAT questions and take a diagnostic test that is the first step and see what you think. Some people sit down for a diagnostic and hate it so much there desire to attend law school goes away in three hours others love it and that really is the first thing you should do sit down and take a diagnostic test use the link I provided. http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/jd-docs/sampleptjune.pdf that is an actual LSAT give yourself three hours and take it under real conditions as suggested in the instructions and see what you think.

Good luck.

259
Golden Gate / Re: In Vino Veritas Competition
« on: October 25, 2013, 01:13:14 AM »
Statistics Response:
As I have stated several times this 21% number or the employment number at any school 9 months after graduation is misleading particularly in California for the following reasons.

1) You do not find out if you passed the California Bar until 7 months after graduation and the results are released right before Thanksgiving so nobody interviews or hires you during the 2 month holiday window and cannot even really start looking for a job until January and then you have to go through interviews etc. Believe it or not you can be hired 10, 11, 12 , 13 months after graduation and at the competition I mentioned there were numerous 2012 GGU alumni there all who were employed, but were hired in March or April of 2013, but these employed grads don't count under the 9 month from graduation calcuatoin.

2) You cannot keep track of every single graduate.

3) As I mentioned previously GGU is an alternative school many people attend part-time, working in business and have no desire to work as lawyers or are older and want the intellectual challenge or one guy I met in law school said he just wanted to prove to his parents that he could get through law school, but never wanted to practice.

So those are some of the flaws with the employment statistics you keep citing.

ASSUMING STATS ARE ACCURATE
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Lets assume 100% of graduates GGU are 25 years old ready to work and report every detail of their employment to career services and if you do not get hired 9 months after graduation you can never find employment as an attorney. 21% of graduates found a way to make it happen and there is not one ABA school that has a 0% employment rate and even if it did anyone smart enough to get into and through law school then pass the bar is capable of making decisions.

REALITY OF BEING A LAWYER

As Maintain states you can't feel sorry for yourself and have a lot of control to develop marketable skills.  I am an attorney and I deal with real people and believe it or not some unfair things happen when you practice law. When unfair things happen I do not sit on the internet complaining about how unfair it is if I did then I would be unemployed. Instead as a licensed lawyer I have to deal with the and figure sh*t out.

LAW SCHOOL & LAW LICENSE
Remember Getting a law degree and passing the bar make you "minimally competent" to practice law. From that point it is not like elementary school where everybody gets a participation and everyone gets to feel good about themselves and have a 6 figure job handed to them. Instead with that license you have to practice law round up clients,  to win trials, figure out what judges want and research issues.

Believe it or not there are a lot of people with legal problems out there and Maintain mentions several friends that have tapped into that market. People want a lawyer to solve their problems that is what the job requires if the lawyer is sitting around feeling for themselves then they are not going to get hired. Alternatively if the lawyer takes control, addresses the situation, and resolves the legal issue they will get business and referrals. The legal profession is not a charity and it is competitive don't get into the profession if you can't handle that.

The point is you can succeed from any school and if your a licensed lawyer you can make things happen, but it is a tough profession and if your instinct is to "bitc* and moan" about how unfair it is well then you will be bit**ing and moaning about being an unemployed lawyer for a long time. No practicing lawyer or judge and particularly no clients wants to hear how unfair it is. A lawyer's job is to find solutions to difficult issues plain and simple.

TRUE ADVERSITY
I guess what really kills me is there are American Lawyers that went through true adversity such as the first woman attorney and first African-American Attorney.

First woman to be admitted to practice law Belva Ann Lockwood
Belva  graduated law school, but was not allowed to take the bar and she had to fight to do that. Once she passed she was considered property and many judges would not let her speak. Obviously men did not want to hire a woman attorney, but she made it happen that is what a true lawyer does. She did not sit around and feel sorry for herself like these spoiled rich white kids who say it is not fair they need to get a clue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belva_Ann_Lockwood

Macon Allen First African American Lawyer

The first African American attorney who had to fight to be licensed and deal with blatant racism and unimaginable adversity and hostility. Something whiny the whinny JD blogger sipping on his cappuccino complaining about how hard everything is could not possibly imagine.


Either Macon or Belva along with a laundry list of other people have overcome true adverserity and deal with a lot worse than not having 6 figure salaries handed to them for showing up.   Anyone from Golden Gate or any other law school is fully capable of succeeding in the current legal market and if they have any hope of being a successful attorney they better not sit around and complain about how unfair it is, because that is all they will be doing.

Conclusion:
Should GGU or any other law school be accountable for their students finding jobs? No. At every ABA law school college educated adults decided to attend law school. We live in a Country full of opportunity and there are no real obstacles to overcome all you have to do is try and realize  nothing will be handed to you. Graduating law school and passing the bar make you minimally competent to practice law GGU and every other ABA school give you the opportunity to become licensed that is the extent of their responsibility. If GGU or any other ABA school doesn't give you a bar exam ticket then they should be held accountable, but that is all any ABA school owes their students.


Again, Belva Ann Lockwood and Macon Allen had plenty to complain about, but they didn't waste their time whining instead overcome difficult obstacles, got results and made history which is what being a lawyer is all about. Whether you went to Harvard or Golden Gate if you sit around feeling sorry for yourself you are not going to make it is an attorney. Conversely, if you attend Harvard or Golden Gate and bust your ass to pass the bar you can do a lot of amazing things, but you have to step up and make it happen no law school is going to make it happen for you when your an attorney you are accountable that is what you sign up for.




260
Distance Education Law Schools / Re: Distance Learning
« on: October 24, 2013, 12:49:58 AM »
I am not against online learning and I think it can be great for the right person. I also think anyone who is capable of passing the California Bar Exam is very intelligent and can succeed as an attorney.

The only thing I think raises an issue in online education is law school is very difficult and it is hard to stay focused for the majority of people without other people around them. Worker's that work from home are traditionally less productive than those in an office.

People who buy the home work out equipement rarely use it and those who attend a gym will generally exercise more. The simple fact is having other people around motivates people more,  but there are plenty of people who do not need that kick of other's around and it may even be distracting to certain people.

To each their own, but I think you really need to know if your disciplined enough to complete an Online Law School if you are then more power to you.

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