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Distance Education Law Schools / Re: taft law school
« on: August 13, 2015, 12:45:01 PM »
They do happen to people at bad, medium and good schools.

Yes I agree with your football camp analogy and it sounds like we are in agreement. A degree from Harvard will get you into training camp, but not a roster spot.

Harvard is a great school and will undoubtedly open more doors.

If you want to be an NBA Basketball Player being 7'0 is better than being 6'2 . No argument there, but can a 6'2 guy do better than a 7'0 yes it happens, but I will bet on the 7'0 everytime.

I will bet on a Harvard Grad over a Taft Grad anyday of the week nobody is arguing that, but as with any bet it could go wrong the Taft Grad might end up being better, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I don't think anybody was hurt by going to law school. It didn't work for some people that is life and I wouldn't tell anyone oh you got into Taft Law School your set for life you really did it. I would say a non-aba school the odds are against you and thinking you will "work really hard" and do great isn't the same as doing it. Everybody thinks that and for the most part when the rubber meets the road people back down.

I encourage anyone to attend an ABA school over a non-aba school.

Agreed passing the bar is certainly doable and I passed it so it is far from impossible.

There are some head shaking moments dealing with plenty of licensed lawyers and I think the current difficulty is fine.

I think some things could be changed such as taking the bar after your 2L. I think it sucks that you have to wait months to be a licensed attorney after graduating, but the exam itself is a good "bar" to practice law.

A lot.

Go into any courtroom on any given day. State Court at least in California Federal is more organized, but state at any given time there are 10-15 hearings. SF Court it is like a cattle call I have been in a room with 30 different cases 60 lawyers to get done in three hours and just praying you get called before the others.

Full trials a lot less, but lawyers go to hearings routinely at least in California. I am working on a personal case in Indiana and the system runs like clockwork there so maybe that is unique to California, but even more reason it should be on the Cali bar.

Distance Education Law Schools / Re: taft law school
« on: August 12, 2015, 07:03:08 PM »
I think that is what LP and I often say.

I don't think anyone anywhere including Taft law School itself would say it is as good as an ABA school or that there is a guarantee of a job or a guarantee of bar passage.  In fact, no school except Wisconsin/Marquette guarantees you will pass the bar they have degree privilege and as far as I know only Westpoint and Annapolis guarantee their graduates jobs out of school.

I will build on your NBA analogy Steve Nash a 6'1 white Canadian won the NBA MVP it "can" happen. However, I or anyone else with a shred of logic would not tell a 6'1 white kid with no jumping ability living in Canada the NBA is in their grasp and certainly not the NBA "MVP", but it happened.

 I would even tell a 7'2 guys that jump out of the building the same thing although they have a better shot. Plenty of 7'2 guys do not make the NBA about 5% of high school players play in any level of college basketball and about 1% play at D1 schools half of which are usually walk on. There are 317 D1 Teams each with for math purposes lets say 12 roster spots, which means 3,804 D1 players and a D1 player is in the top 1 of high school players. Of these elite of elite there are 30 draft picks with guaranteed contracts and international players are drafted so about 20 college players get drafted in a year.

The odds of making millions with a law degree from Harvard or any other law school are about the same. Going to a DL school makes the 1% chance a .01 % chance and the truth is to whatever "making it" means in any profession are against you, but low and behold we all struggle day in and day out hoping to "make it" and in the 1% chance we "make it" we will still want more.

Nobody out there will say Taft is an amazing school. It will offer you a chance to take the bar exam in California and possibly through legal maneuvering enable you to take another exam, but no guarantee.

So the point of the rant is there is no easy way plenty of people go to "good" schools and get hit by bus and never work in a day, get strung out on heroin, or god knows what could happen.  This crazy chick went to Taft law school and is passionate about Obama's birth certificate that is how she chooses to spend her time and Taft has given her that chance. That is what she wants I don't, but she got the benefit of her bargain.

I think it really comes down to expectations. 99% of people in any ABA or even CBA law school class have had a pretty f'ing blessed life. There are literally billions of people in the world that would trade places to be in that position, but these students expect the bar to be passed for them, to not get rejected by employers, to not fail, and not having something bad happen.

People going to law school, undergrad, or pursuing any profession just need to do a reality check before pursuing it. I recently was talking to this kid who will be attending Cooley and he thinks he will make millions at graduation. Cooley did not tell him that he made up in his own head. That is nobody's fault, but his own, because even if he went to Harvard millions at graduation aren't coming.

Well that is what happens when you drink two red bulls within two hours end of rant. : )

Yea that's the test I don't know if a lot would pass.

I think everyone has their strengths and weaknesses on the exam and each was balanced out fairly well.  I was never strong on Multiple choice question, but nailed those crazy fact pattern essays. M, but the PT's were a little harder for me. It is like the LSAT as well some people love logic games and hate reading comp. I think that was the point of the Cal Bar it tested all those various skills equally.

If anything to make it more realistic there should be some kind of oral requirement on the bar I can't tell you how many times I have been in court and seen licensed attorneys unable to articulate a sentence in front of a judge.  Or ramble on so incoherently that all hope for the case is lost. That would be a realistic and helpful addition and maybe get rid of the MBE all together. That is the one thing that makes little sense to me in the real world there are no multiple choice questions.


I agree I actually think the PT's are what most people struggle with on the exam and the PT is what happens in real life.

You are given a huge stack of paper and a lot of it contains unimportant information.  You need to sift through the b.s. to find the important info then learn some law and apply it to a fact scenario and it is not uncommon to do this under time pressure.

In my years of practice I have never been asked to answer a Multiple Choice Question nor has info every been presented to me in a one page piece of paper with all the relevant facts to come up with a question.

The test is simply easier and what impact that will have if any on the legal profession for years to come is yet to be seen. Hopefully, the guy who was taken the bar 41 times and yet to pass will finally get with the new rules that will be something good that comes from these changes.

As far as I know nobody has won any of the lawsuits against the schools. You can sue anyone for any reason, but these are college educated students making a decision.

If you want to be a lawyer people are going to present facts in a way that is misleading and don't get me started on a rant about rankings, polls, statistics you can make them say whatever you want.

The scholarship thing is something many people take issue, but I played college basketball and the same things they recruit kids and if they don't hack it they lose their scholarships and are f'ed and those are high schools, which is a way more messed up system. However, knowing this and wanting to be a lawyer guess what I did when my school offered me a scholarship? I asked what the conditions were they said 3.0 I then asked how many people have a 3.0 at the end 1L and they responded 35% and I knew then there was a 65% chance I would lose it.

These are people that want to be lawyers, but don't ask basic questions. No school anywhere guarantees a job and if you are a college graduate with a decent enough LSAT score to get into an ABA school you are not an idiot. If you don't have the balls or experience to ask questions when you are getting money that is your own fault.

I do take issue with schools that don't require a B.A. or LSAT score those people are more susceptible, but anyone at an ABA school graduated from college. If they think a law school scams for not asking questions try a credit card company, bank, car salesman, broker etc.

For the non-aba schools that might be true. However, Cooley, FCSL, etc require a college degree and an LSAT score.

However, people are adults and make their decisions. Many of the people really want to go to law school and for some it will work out and others it won't.

None of these schools are forcing anyone to attend law school. These incoming students are college graduates that took the LSAT and applied. If Cooley is the only school they got into they had better realize that it will be an uphill battle. Many do, but I have met people that were admitted to Cooley that think they will be millionaires within a year or two of graduation and Cooley can't be blamed for that kind of unrealistic expectations. I have also met really smart Cooley grads and at the end of the day people are responsible for their choices.

The non-aba schools that don't require a degree or LSAT do take advantage, but the ABA schools have some standards.

Law School Applications / Re: 2.39 GPA 151 LSAT Should I even try?
« on: August 07, 2015, 12:09:48 PM »
I don't think a scholarship will come with a 2.39 and 151 LSAT, but he/she might be admitted to a few schools. 

The Patent Bar is an idea if he/she has the proper undergrad and wants to do that kind of law.

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