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Messages - Citylaw

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111
Incoming 1Ls / Re: Evidence Why 0L's shoudl not use Rankings
« on: October 14, 2015, 04:13:36 PM »
I think law school grades can be analgous to U.S. News. If you are in the top 10% of your class you did well and there is merit to that distinction. However, is there a much difference between someone in the top 8% v. top 10% not really. Is there a difference between someone in the top 10% and the bottom 75%? Yes.

However, even if you go lower is the student in ranked 55 out of 100 that much better or worse than someone ranked 72 out of 100? I don't think it matters much at that point. Both are mediocre law school performers sure it is better to be 55 than 72, but no employer will say wow you were 55th amazing.

U.S. News is the same situation if you are in the top 10% of schools then there is a real distinction and maybe even in the top 25% of schools that is a factor to consider, but when you get to 78th v 112th what does it matter?

112
Incoming 1Ls / Re: Evidence Why 0L's shoudl not use Rankings
« on: October 14, 2015, 02:17:37 PM »
I assume most law students would know that University of Texas & UCLA are solid schools. I think that goes to my point in that UCLA is a university people know all over the United States as is University of Texas. The campuses are beautiful, they have massive alumni networks etc.

I think it is fair to say that most people would know that UCLA is a "better" school than Southwestern or Loyola Marymont. I also assume most people would know that University of Texas is "better" than South Texas College of Law or St. Mary's College of Law.

I have no issue with U.S. News offering the rankings it is a money maker and if people want to pay to listen to their opinion let them. If people Tony Robbins wants to give life coach lectures more power to him. However, I wouldn't recommend that anyone take either that seriously.

As I am sure you remember as a OL everyone is insecure about their decision, most incoming 0L's are very dilligent researchers who wants to be sure they are making the "right" choice. U.S. News exploits that fear for profit by making an arbitrary ranking of schools.

There is no ranking for every single undergraduate institution, but when I was a high school student I knew UCLA was a "better" school than Cal. State L.A. or Cal. State Northridge. Not that there is anything wrong with Cal State L.A. or CSUN, but UCLA is a better school. I knew that without a magazine telling me.

I knew UCLA was a better school than Southwestern, but as a OL when I saw a school ranked 70 instead of 94th I actually thought it meant something, but it doesn't.

Conclusion:
Like most things involving law school if you use common sense a lot of issues can be resolved, but U.S. News makes a profit on 0L's by releasing this ranking to confuse people during a confusing part of their life. However, they are more than entitled to make a profit for their opinion, but incoming 0L's don't have to listen to it and they shouldn't listen to it either.

113
Incoming 1Ls / Re: Evidence Why 0L's shoudl not use Rankings
« on: October 14, 2015, 10:20:20 AM »
Agreed yea I will extend that to T14 and really even any school with a National Name. I don't know what BYU is ranked I am sure I could google to find out, but that is probably the best school you could possibly attend if you want to live in Utah.

There are schools everybody knows or the vast majority as "great" schools. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Georgetown, Berkeley, NYU, Michigan, Notre Dame, UCLA, USC, Duke, Vanderbilt, Cornell, etc  I could go on, but there are certain schools known nationwide and those are worth attending.

In my situation attending Tulsa over University of San Francisco based on rankings, would have been based a bad decision. Tulsa is not a school with a nationwide rep nor is University of San Francisco they are both fine schools, but nobody is going to be impressed by either one.

Right now Notre Dame is "ranked" almost equally with UC Davis. http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html . However, Notre Dame has a far stronger alumni network and national name than Davis does.

So you don't even need the rankings really before they were published Harvard was a good school as were the others I listed and everybody knew it. It is essentially amounts to a magazine telling us Shaq is big, I knew that already and didn't need a magazine to tell me.

114
Online Law Schools / Re: NOVUS LAW SCHOOL?
« on: October 14, 2015, 09:59:41 AM »
Its interesting that Touro would even be involved in the lawsuit. They are ABA approved, but not exactly a model of success and they might want to worry more about themselves and let Harvard, Yale Stanford, Georgetown etc litigate against sham schools.

As to the New York Supreme Court that is the lowest court in New York so it is just a trial decision. The New York Court of Appeals is actually New York's Supreme Court. https://www.nycourts.gov/ctapps/

So NOVUS was sued by a law school that is scrapping by as is and the lawsuit was dismissed, because there was no purpose to it. NOVUS is an unaccredited law school that provides J.D.'s to students that want to enroll. NOVUS makes no secret that it is not accredited. I assume NOVUS allows you to take the California Bar, since it is the most liberal about who it allows to sit for the exam, but I don't even know if that is true. Therefore, if someone wants to get an unaccreddited J.D. from NOVUS they can. Whether the unaccredited degree has any value is up to the consumer. 

If I was a Touro student I would be upset that the tuition dollars I paid were used on this lawsuit.

Law schools suing law schools is not really helping law students succeed. I honestly, think Touro is more to blame than NOVUS, because NOVUS is saying what it is an unaccredited law school.  I would not enroll in it nor would I advise anyone I know to enroll in NOVUS, but I am just a guy on the internet. Leave NOVUS alone and I wish the best for their current students and alumni.


115
Current Law Students / United States Supreme Court Admission?
« on: October 12, 2015, 09:58:48 AM »
I was just seeing if anyone has either gone through the process or know someone that has gone through the process of being admitted to the U.S. Supreme Court. http://www.supremecourt.gov/bar/barinstructions.pdf . It looks like you need to find two sponsors, but I was not sure where to look. Anyone have any experience or know anyone that has gone through the process of admission?

116
I finished my PS years ago, but can take a quick look if you want.

Also, just so you are aware the PS doesn't mean that much your GPA/LSAT make up about 90-95% of application decisions. I remember spending probably 50-100 hours on my personal statement and frankly it was pretty good, but at the end of the day I got into the schools my numbers were in range for and rejected by the ones that weren't.

If you have a 3.4 159 LSAT you can get into a number of ABA schools, but not the top 20. With that said I am happy to take a look if you PM me, but as with most things involving law school don't overthink it.

117
It is a school from what I can see it has classes and teaches you the law.  I cannot speak for the quality of education as it is completely unregulated, but courses are offered. http://www.novus.edu/masters.htm

I am sure if you attend Novus you will learn something about the law. Whether it  is worth paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for  is another story. http://www.novus.edu/tuition/

So I will say it is a school and not a scam, because it offers an education and does not promise anything it cannot deliver.  It does not claim to be accredited by any state bar or offer any validation of its credentials and it has no regulation.

I would never attend Novus, but if people of legal age and capacity choose to enter into an unaccredited law school nobody should stop them.

I would personally advice anyone not to attend Novus if they had any desire to become a lawyer. However, if someone wants to go to an unaccredited school and learn the law through an online course more power to them.


If Tony Robbins can charge for life-coach less Novus can charge for a legal education.

Paying to listen to Tony Robbins and obtain a degree from Novus is not something I would do, but people have the right. I am sure plenty of people would not spend hours upon hours posting on a law school discussion website, but I enjoy doing it and if LSD wants to maintain a website and continue to let me and others post on it, great.









118
Incoming 1Ls / Evidence Why 0L's shoudl not use Rankings
« on: October 08, 2015, 03:34:36 PM »
I am an attorney that has been licensed for a few years and I remember when choosing a law school how important I thought rankings were. However, I have watched the rankings both during and after law school. It is shocking to see how much the rankings of each school I was considering  changed over the past 5 years. http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html

I entered law school in 2008 and was living in New York.  I applied all over the place and was offered a full scholarship to University of Tulsa  and Michigan State.  At the time under the rankings both schools were considered Tier 4. The rankings used to be Tier 1 (top 50) (Tier 2 Top 100) Then they stopped ranking and made an arbitrary ranking of Tier 3 and Tier 4.  Now they simply rank to 150 and then do a RNP for the final 50.

At the time I didn't want to go to a Tier 4 school (A Tier 4 School Doesn't even exist now), because I thought the rankings mattered, but for reasons unknown  Tulsa is now in a 4 way tie for #82 and Michigan State University is in an eight way tie for 94th. (Yes eight way tie for 94th place not making that up. (Direct from U.S. News-http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+4 .

I am originally from California and applied to several California Schools, which included University of San Francisco, McGeorge and Chapman.

When I was applying McGeorge was barely in the top 100, but now for reasons unknown and under the new changes it is not in the top 150.

San Francisco was 84th, but now 138th.

Chapman was 100th now it is 127th.

The reason for these mass fluctuations is that U.S. News formula is based on nothing really just honestly unidentified people ranking schools on a scantron from 1-5. There is really no tangible way to compare University of Tulsa v. University of San Francisco. They are both ABA schools and will provide a quality education, but Tulsa and San Francisco are different places.

World renowned schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford are at the top and that doesn't change, but to any 0L choosing a mid-level school please do not use the rankings.  Nobody cares whether a school is in eight way tie for 94th or 4 way tie for 82nd.

I am always thankful to an attorney that talked me out of going to Michigan State, because despite my love of College of Sports I am from California and would have died in Michigan winters. Furthermore, I had no desire to live in Michigan and wanted to live in San Francisco. He told me if you want to be a lawyer in San Francisco go to law school in San Francisco. I was like many 0L's and overthinking everything and putting substantial stock in the opinion of a for-profit unregulated magazine known as  U.S. News to make life altering decision. (Not a good idea)

There is nothing wrong with U.S. News offering an opinion and they can rank anything they want, but making a life altering decision based on a magazine's random opinion is not a good idea.

As I now see  by the time you graduate the school you choose based on rankings will have changed substantially.

In my scenario the schools I turned down raised significantly and the schools I attended declined, but nobody cares. 

End of rant.




119
Online Law Schools / Re: Touro College vs. Novus
« on: October 08, 2015, 10:51:05 AM »
They won their lawsuit good for them if the case was dismissed with prejudiced NOVUS couldn't ask for a better result.

I don't care enough to look up the merits of the case, but if a school wants to offer a degree let them.  Novus does not claim to be ABA approved or approval of any state bar that I know of.  Therefore, I wouldn't recommend the school from what I know, but people can choose to enter a law school that is not approved as long as the school informs them of that fact.

If a school is bragging about winning lawsuits against its legitimacy I think that shows the school is not an ideal place, but they should allowed to keep their doors open.

If NOVUS starts claiming it has ABA approval and completely misleading people that is another story, but it doesn't do that from what I know.

A list of practicing attorneys from NOVUS would be interesting to see.


120
Excellent critique and solid start, but when you are writing something important it needs to be shortened and edited countless times to make it shine.

As Miami states you want make your point with as few words as possible. 20-25 word sentences are to long, it is important to remember that an admissions committee is reviewing thousands of personal statements and although everyone assumes their statement will be reviewed in detail after the sentence or two if it doesn't grab their attention it is likely to be skimmed and do little to help or hurt your application.

Referencing law & order in the all important first sentence is likely to get an eye roll.  Remember it is a personal statement about you, not a T.V. show. It is also possible you are not referencing the T.V. show I can't really tell from the opening sentence. You say simply be saying your passionate about justice, but many lawyers hear about law & order all the time from non-lawyers so that is where my head went.

Even the opening statement is what Miami is referencing shorten it. 

that is your opening,
I have always since I was a youngster been passionate about Law & Order

I am passionate about justice,

(it says the same thing in 4 words instead of 11.) Eliminating unnecessary words is important (the "since I was a youngster" adds nothing.) the word "always" puts it all in one.

With all that it is also worth nothing that in reality the personal statement means very little, your LSAT-GPA are the crux of your application. Of course you want to have a nice personal statement, but unless you have some amazing story i.e. were the Navy Seal that took down Osama Bin Laden, or were the Mayor of a City or something truly newsworthy it is not going to help your application that much. Conversely, if you do a terrible job in your essay and go on some racist rant or god knows what it can hurt.

From reviewing your statement I wouldn't say there is an amazing story nor is it terribly done.It is a fine statement that can be edited, but remember your numbers make up 90-95% of the decision.

Good luck!



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