Law School Discussion

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Messages - Citylaw

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11
Join the club of law school applicants that partied to much and didn't take undergrad to seriously. You did not list your GPA so I don't know what your GPA was, but I imagine like 95% of undergrad students you don't have a 4.0.

If you have a 3.0 or above you can get into a number of law schools.

Your post seems to indicate you will only accept a T14 school, but I don't know how many incoming law students erroneously think this matters or is commonplace. If you can get into Harvard go for it, but 99% of practicing lawyers did not go to Harvard or Yale. Additionally, going to Harvard or Yale does not mean you will succeed in teh legal profession. One of my really good friends went to Yale Law School, but he hated being a lawyer and is now a salesman. He completely regrets having ever gone to law school, because it wasn't for him. Many of law school classmates are obviously doing quite well, but the point is going to X school does not mean success.

If you get a 170 on the LSAT awesome more power to you, but again there is 95% chance you will not score a 170 on the LSAT nothing against you, but odds are you not going to score in the top 5% of test takers.

Conclusion:
Take the LSAT see what you get and assess your options. Don't go to the PeaceCorps or any of the other numerous things for the purpose of getting into a "better" law school. Just take the LSAT and see where you stand and decide whether to attend law school or not.

Also remember that the T14 schools are based on U.S. News, which is nothing more than a for-profit unregulated magazine offering an opinion and the "T14" schools changed every year. There are certain schools Harvard, Yale, Stanford, that people know across the country, but Notre Dame is a great school in the Midwest, Texas is the best school for Texas, Nebraska is best for Nebraska, on and on location matters far more than what U.S. News says.

Here is an excellent article explaining the things to consider when choosing a law school. http://www.legalmatch.com/choose-the-right-law-school.html

Good luck in your pursuit of a legal education.

12
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Considering Law School
« on: September 11, 2014, 05:09:44 PM »
If you want to end up in Chicago go to law school in Chicago.

University of Chicago is obviously the best, but that is tough. Then Northwestern or Notre Dame will open more doors in Chicago than Stanford would, even though Stanford is number 3.

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of location over the rankings. The rankings change drastically year by year and in the Bay Area you will find Stanford/Boalt grads they are connected in the Bay Area. You can find Stanford alum in Chicago, but University of Chicago or Northwestern grads will predominate in Chicago.

Realize wherever you attend law school will be three years of the prime of your life, and will likely where you end up residing long term. Also campuses are different Notre Dame is a college town and if you love Football, Frat, Parties, etc then Notre Dame is great, but if you hate small college towns don't move to South Bend.

Really consider location when you choose your law school I cannot emphasize it enough.

13
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Considering Law School
« on: September 09, 2014, 07:59:13 PM »
Awesome 171 is an amazing score.

As to your question with a 3.0/171 you are a major splitter and it is hard to predict if you would get into a T14 school. I encourage you to use lawschoolnumbers.com to see your chances.

With that said do not get to caught up in rankings remember these change year by year. Consider location, cost, personal feelings about the school etc.

From your orignal post it sounds like you want to be in the corporate or start-up world. To do that you really want to be in New York, Bay Area, L.A, and maybe Chicago.

Applying that logic to the rankings although University of Texas is a Top 15 school right now, if you wanted to be in L.A. attending U.S.C, which is ranked 23 this year would be far better to attend if you want to work in L.A. If you want to be in New York although Fordham is ranked 36th that will open more doors in New York than Texas, which is ranked 15.

Here is a list of the top 100 law schools and you can see how drastically school ranks change year by year. Remember U.S. News is a magazine offering an opinion nothing more nothing less, use common sense when choosing a law school and don't attend University of Virginia if you want to live in work in L.A.

Again, congrats on the great LSAT score.


14
Roger Williams / Re: Anyone recently attended?
« on: September 09, 2014, 11:30:20 AM »
Roger Williams should certainly open doors for the career you want then.

If you said you wanted to make partner at Cravath by 30 then it would not, but that is why you should take anonymous internet posts with a grain of salt everybody wants much different things.

I personally have no desire to do family/juvenile law, but many people are passionate about it. If this was the path you wanted to pursue then going to Harvard wouldn't even make sense.

One of the most important lessons to learn in the legal profession is to not over complicate things, and selecting a law school is one of the first lessons in that.

It sounds like you want to be a lawyer in Rhode Island. 

There is no better way to accomplish that goal than attending law school in Rhode Island.

Don't start looking at magazine, internet posts, random statistics, etc if you like the school and want to be in Rhode Island it should work out.

Good luck as you pursue a legal career.

15
Roger Williams / Re: Anyone recently attended?
« on: September 08, 2014, 11:05:13 AM »
First and foremost do not let anonymous internet posters, which include those writing on this board or others myself included to make the life altering commitment of where to attend law school. There is no qualification to write on this board and it is not uncommon for individuals who have 0 experience with law school or the legal profession to loudly announce their opinions anonymously on internet forums such as this. The same applies to my post for all you know I am a crackhead in a public library writing this post.

With that said I believe any incoming law student should consider the following factors in this order when choosing a law school. (1) Location; (2) Cost; (3) Personal Feelings about the school; (4) Understanding the reality of legal education; (5) Last and not least U.S. News Ranking. Here is an article analyzing these factors in detail http://www.legalmatch.com/choose-the-right-law-school.html.  below I will analyze them to your situation.

Location:
This is the most important consideration when choosing a law school particularly in a state with one law school, such as Rhode Island. I have never been to Rhode Island, but I am sure most judges, lawyers, etc in Rhode Island went to Roger Williams. The law school will have connection in Rhode Island and they will teach for the Rhode Island Bar.

If you want to live in Rhode Island after graduation then go to Roger Williams. Also realize that law school does not exist in a vacuum and the culture, neighborhood, and connections you have or do not have nearby Rhode Island will make a difference in your life. You will in Rhode Island for three years if you attend Roger Williams, I have never met you and know nothing about you maybe Rhode Island is where you want to be if so attend Roger Williams, maybe you despite the State and if that is the case don't go.


Cost.

Roger Williams Tuition is $40,000 per year and offers on campus living for 21k per year. So you are looking at 61k per year, which is not outrageous as far as law school goes, but without a scholarship you will be $183,000 in debt at graduation. You can make this up as the legal profession can be very rewarding financially if you last the first few years. 

I would encourage you to ask about scholarship options, you have nothing to lose by asking.

Personal Feelings about the School:
How you personally feel about the school is a huge consideration, and it sounds like you did the right thing and visited the school already. During the visit you had a positive experience, which is something to consider. When I was a 0L I visited many schools and some I hated while others I loved. If you liked your experience visiting Roger Williams that is something to consider.

Reality of Legal Education:
At any ABA law school you will learn the exact same thing with a few state law exceptions, but during your first year you will have the following classes whether you attend Harvard or Roger Williams  (1) Torts; (2) Contracts; (3) Property; (4) Civil Procedure; (5) Crim Law/Crim Pro/or Con Law schools typically offer one of these three first year and require you to take the other two during 2L. In those courses you will read Supreme Court Cases and the Supreme Court does not write separate opinions for different law schools, more importantly the law is the law no matter what law school you attend. For example in Civil Procedure you will read Pennoyver v. Neff to learn about Notice, Contracts Hadley v. Baxendale to learn contract remedies; and Torts Palsgraff to learn proximate cause.

At the end of your three years at the ABA law school you attend you will then have to take the bar exam. While facing the stress of the bar exam you will either sign up with Barbri or Kaplan and take a bar review class. At the end of three years and the bar exam course you will be packed into a room with hundreds of other law students from law schools across the country to take the state bar exam. If you pass your a lawyer if you don't your not and it does not matter what law school you attended.

U.S. News Ranking:
Realize that U.S. News is nothing more than a for-profit and unregulated magazine offering an opinion. They rank more than law schools and have determined Albuquerque, New Mexico is the best place to live. http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/slideshows/best-places-to-live

Will you be attend New Mexico Law School for a chance to live in the #1 City? Probably not, making New Mexico is cooler than I thought it was, but I will not make the life altering decision of choosing to move there, because U.S. News said it was #1. Use the same logic when choosing a law school and remember it is a magazine.

Conclusion:
If you want to be a lawyer in Rhode Island then there is probably no better place to attend law school than Roger Williams. If your goal is to end up in Oregon then do not attend Roger Williams. Be mindful of costs during law school and be sure the legal profession is something you want to get into.

I have never met you and know nothing about you so I could possibly tell you what the right answer is, but I encourage you to analyze the factors above to your own life and make a decision. I would also encourage to stop listening to anonymous internet posters I realize it is the easiest way to access information, but it is the most unreliable. You should reach out to alumni from Roger Williams and talk to them about their experience. If you talk to people in person you can really gauge their credibility.

Good luck whatever you decide.







16
Socratic Method / Re: Accidentally Slurred in Class
« on: August 25, 2014, 10:37:50 AM »
I had professors cuss in class a little strange the professor took it up to the Dean. Perhaps it was a student that said something, which is why the Dean is involved, but odds are once he/she hears all you said was bulls**t in class they will say it is unprofessional to use profanity in class you need to use your words carefully as a lawyer, etc .

In the real world people cuss all the time it is not good, but it happens.

I am sure you will be fine bulls**t is not even that bad of word, basically you should be fine if you just apologize and say it won't happen again.

17
I see this is an old post, but really what all you should do for know is get an LSAT score. Once you have that you will know your options and can consider all the different options etc. Take it one step at a time and you will get there good luck and thank you for your service.

18
General Board / Re: Changing from a medical career?
« on: August 20, 2014, 10:47:51 AM »
Agreed being a med student etc does not necessarily mean you will do well in law school or the LSAT. I know plenty of people that are geniuses in one thing that could not score 140 on the LSAT, and I could not do the things those people are capable of doing.

Case in point I saw a refrigerator repairman fixing giant freezers yesterday while walking home. I don't know if I could ever begin to figure out how to repair a fridge, and I am guessing that guy could stand studying for an LSAT logic game.

There are different kinds of intelligence and the only way to know if the OP can get a 175 is by actually taking the LSAT.  Anyone that did not bet against any potential LSAT taker scoring a 175 is going to come away broke,  the odds of anyone getting a 175+ on the LSAT are extremely low. It happens, but I would bet significant amounts of money the OP will score a 175+ although I hope he/she does.



19
General Board / Re: Changing from a medical career?
« on: August 19, 2014, 11:12:45 AM »
As other posters suggested a 170-175 is not easy, and places you in the top 5% of college graduates that were motivated enough to go to law school, study for the LSAT, and had the fortitude to actually take the LSAT. There is a 95% chance you will not score that high. I imagine with your background you can score sufficiently high enough to attend an ABA school, and there is a 5% chance you will score a 170-175.

With that said, I think your best bet is to study for the LSAT and take the test. If you enjoy studying for the LSAT you will probably enjoy law school, and if you get a great score awesome the world is your oyster. If you hate studying for the LSAT and get a terrible score then law school was not for you. I know many people in your situation with an active career, which is where I was when I applied start thinking of the countless possibilities that could happen and put the carriage in front of the horse.

For now give up a few weeks to study for the LSAT and one or two hundred dollars for the test fee. If the score and studying goes well then really consider the pros and cons of law school.  If the score and studying goes poorly then law school is not in the cards, and no need to stress about it.

 Good luck.




20
If you scored a 165 on the LSAT you will have options at a number of schools. Check out lawschoolnumbers.com

In addition the location you want to attend school will make a difference. ABA schools in California are often more difficult to get into, because more people are seeking to live in California. If you want to attend North Dakota the admission standards are lower.

If your still in undergrad you may want to sign up for any easy elective classes you have to boost your GPA a bit. Maybe a P.E. class or Sports in film etc just to knock it up a few points. 

Can you get into an ABA law school with your numbers? Yes.

I encourage you to checkout lawschoolnumbers.com and look at the schools you are interested in to see what your options are.

Good luck.

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