Law School Discussion

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Messages - Citylaw

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1
As everyone has asked what are the scholarship conditions. If you can't get them down to good academic standing on the conditions and maybe even ask for living expenses you will have the chance to get an ABA degree for minimal or no debt, which is a solid deal.

I would also negotiate with Cal Western for more money worse thing they will say is no.

As to the quality of the schools I have known solid attorney's from both schools, but obviously neither one is Harvard. However, if you want to end up in San Diego those are solid schools to choose from.

2
Bar passage rates are down at every school and the reason is that during 2008-2011 you had record numbers of applicants and a very high quality  pool of people to choose from law school bar passage was up at almost every school. Then everyone was saying how crowded law school was and from 2011-to present application numbers are dwindling the quality of the pool has gone down and bar passage rates are going down.

Santa Clara is for all intents and purposes the same. Same professors, same location, etc and it is a perfectly fine school. Also, most importantly of all whether a student passes or fails the bar has far more to do with themselves than the school they attend.

In general students that finish in the top half of any ABA school will pass the bar.

3
Glad we could offer some assistance Phantom and yea TLS is not lacking content definitely quantity over quality on that site, but the MODS probably would do something if more than 50% of the site was pharmacy ads so you got to give them that.

As to Loki, I enjoy the banter as well and also like disagreeing with you on minor points to keep the conversation alive.


4
I guess TLS was picking up back in the day, but it just seems to be full of people that have no idea what they are talking about saying no to everything and greatly exaggerating the scenarios.

Also that just goes to show how important is to remember any advice on this board, TLS or others comes from anonymous internet posters and it should be taken with a grain of salt. If you look hard enough on the internet you can always find something that agrees with you.

Hell Cooley makes their own Law School Rankings and good for them why not make yourself #1.  It has no more or less authority than U.S. News and with all the information all over the place people forget to use common sense, which can really take you a long-way.


5
Good luck on the LSAT I already dealt with the LSAT, law school and Bar so not a study partner, but I wanted to give you words of encouragement to follow through on the test. I know it is stressful, but so many people back out before the test and remember the LSAT is really an everything to gain and nothing to lose scenario.

If you do well your in if it goes terribly you can always retake.

Good luck and if you have any questions about law school, lsat, etc this is a great forum.

6
Where should I go next fall? / Re: USD v. UC Hastings v. (Maybe) UCI
« on: April 08, 2015, 05:38:39 PM »
Excellent summary and agreed I think Hastings is "better" than Chapman not sure if USD is much better, but certainly not so much better that you should move to SF and pay $150,000 more. Also, Hastings is "better" in the Bay area not L.A. necessarily. Honestly, if your goal is to end up in L.A. then Chapman is probably than Hastings for that purpose.

Also, as Lodi mentions pay very close attention to scholarship conditions. This New York Times Article does a great job explaining them. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/business/law-school-grants.html?_r=0 . If you ask for more favorable condtions odds are you will get them, but if you don't ask they won't give them to you.

Good luck.

7
Where should I go next fall? / Re: USD v. UC Hastings v. (Maybe) UCI
« on: April 08, 2015, 05:01:36 PM »
To sum up your original if I wanted to live in L.A. post graduation and was offered a full scholarship at Chapman I would take that over any of the school listed in the caption. My post above explains why and I cannot stress enough how UNIMPORTANT RANKINGS are.

8
Where should I go next fall? / Re: USD v. UC Hastings v. (Maybe) UCI
« on: April 08, 2015, 04:37:32 PM »
Please do not make a decision on where to attend law school based on U.S. Rankings.

Nobody cares about the rank difference between USD, Hastings, or Chapman.

Additionally, the rankings change drastically year by year. See this chart from 2009-2014 showing law school rankings. http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html

Hastings for example was 39th 5 years ago and now they are in a multipe way tie for 54th. Nothing has changed at that school I have been in the SF legal market since 2009 and Hastings is a well respected school in San Francisco. People that make hiring decisions don't look at the U.S. News Rankings.

If you were talking Harvard or Yale then yes the rank makes a difference, but none of these schools are amazing.

I cannot stress enough how many bad decisions are made based on U.S. News rankings. Remember it is a for-profit unregulated magazine offering an opinion nothing more nothing less. According to U.S. News Alberqueue, New Mexico is the #1 place to live. See link http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009 . However,  I imagine you are not going to move to Albuquerque because U.S. News says it is #1 . It would be crazy to make a life altering decision based on a magazine right?

Same thing applies to making the 3 year, $100,000 +, career altering decision don't let a magazine make this decision for you.

In conclusion if you want to be in L.A. attend law school in L.A. Again, Southwestern, Chapman, Loyola would be solid options.

If you ultimately want to end up in L.A. you will have more job opportunities if you attend law school in L.A. Your professors will be in L.A. you will get internships in L.A. there will be more alumni in L.A.

If you want to be in San Diego attend law school in San Diego.

Any ABA law school will provide you with a quality legal education, but none guarantee you a job. Rankings mean very little and simply apply common sense when choosing your school don't listen to magazines or even anonymous internet posters such as myself.

If you want to be a lawyer in L.A. my two cents is going to law school in L.A.  You also preferably like to pay less for the same thing. Any of these schools will provide you with a J.D. and the opportunity to sit for the California Bar Exam you can pay $100,000 more at X school or $100,000 less to be in the same spot.

Of course if you were attending a school known nationwide this might be a different conversation, but Hastings, USD, Chapman, etc are fine schools, but nobody in L.A. is going to go out of their way to recruit a San Diego student there are already 7 or 8 law schools in L.A.


9
Enjoying your posts and bringing a bit of life to this forum. I used to use this routinely in 2007-2008  when there was constant traffic and came back about a year ago to see the constant SPAM not sure what happened.

10
Where should I go next fall? / Re: USD v. UC Hastings v. (Maybe) UCI
« on: April 08, 2015, 12:07:19 PM »
Loki makes great points and in all honesty if your goal is to end up in Socal attend law school in Socal.

If your goal is to be in San Diego attend USD, Cal Western or Thomas Jefferson.

If your goal is to be in L.A. attend Loyola, Southwestern, Chapman, UCI etc.

I am an attorney in San Francisco and from L.A.  I left L.A., because it is not my scene, but it sounds like it is where you want to be and more power to you. Hastings is a solid school, but it is in the heart of the Tenderloin and kind of a crazy place.

I tell any incoming law student to consider the following five factors in this order (1) location; (2) Cost; (3) Personal feelings about the school; (4) understanding the reality of legal education; (5) Last and least U.S. News rankings. This article does a great job summing it up. http://www.legalmatch.com/choose-the-right-law-school.html

Also, in regards to grant money be wary of scholarship conditions and be sure you have a full understanding of what they are.

I also want to second Loki's point regarding the MBA. I know when I was a 0L I thought it sounded cool to get an MBA as well, but I had no real direction on what I would be doing with it. In all honesty I think an MBA is kind of a waste unless as Loki says you have a specific goal in mind, but if your not a math person adding an extra year of school and $10,000's more in educational debt is probably not a good idea and should not be a major factor in what school you choose.




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