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Messages - SEC_2L

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Current Law Students / Re: Billing rate to salary ratio??
« on: February 19, 2009, 06:10:50 AM »
Thanks for the idea, but unfortunately the whole state is not NALP listed.

Check NALP for firms that pay a comparable amount for summer associates in the same or similar markets and then look at first year associate pay.

Current Law Students / Re: Billing rate to salary ratio??
« on: February 19, 2009, 04:38:52 AM »

Is there anyway to get a bead on what an associate at a firm makes based on what they bill per hour? Is there like a standard percentage of the rate that they get?

I am trying to figure out what starting associates make at a firm that has offered me for this summer...they are not on NALP or anything...

NOBODY has a clue on this...?

Current Law Students / Billing rate to salary ratio??
« on: February 18, 2009, 03:34:17 PM »

Is there anyway to get a bead on what an associate at a firm makes based on what they bill per hour? Is there like a standard percentage of the rate that they get?

I am trying to figure out what starting associates make at a firm that has offered me for this summer...they are not on NALP or anything...

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: NW or GW
« on: February 15, 2009, 09:40:23 PM »

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Regional Schools
« on: February 15, 2009, 06:18:02 PM »
I could have sworn when the 2009 rankings came out last year, the Tier 3 schools were listed in a ranked order. But now when you look at them they are just alphabetical. It's really weird but I know that they were...

I don't really know enough about those schools to answer your specific question but you can probably dig up an old thread about the rankings issue I am talking about because it was a pretty popular topic of discussion around here last April.

Looking for some help here folks.  Does anyone have anything substantial along the lines of a ranking scheme for Tier 3 schools? 

OR, answer me this...

Quinnipiac vs. Pace vs. Suffolk???


Choosing the Right Law School / Re: NW or GW
« on: February 15, 2009, 02:39:03 PM »
I would go to NW, no questions asked....

My family is paying for everything so money really isn't the issue. And so far, neither school has given me any scholarship money anyway.

I guess my biggest concern is getting a great job right out of law school, ideally in New York. Do you think going to NW would make that much of a difference?

Job Search / Re: Question from somebody in a rare position
« on: February 15, 2009, 07:59:56 AM »
Well it sounds like you entered school with that problem. At least you have lucked out with this BigLaw 1L SA. If you want to go back to Cali I'd say your best course is to bust your ass this summer, try to pull your grades up this Spring and also hit up EVERY contact you have back home to start laying the groundwork for getting a job there next summer. Just saying you worked for BigLaw as  1L should impress some people especially if you have a common friend or a prior relationship with them.

Due to a minority program (I'm a minority, not an URM) at my law school (mid-T1 school in the Midwest) I was able to secure a SA position at a big firm in the Midwest this summer (the particular office I'm working at has over 200 attorneys and pays market to SA). I'm understandably happy and thankful for this opportunity. However, I can't help but look ahead and get a bit worried about 2L summer. My grades were not very good (below the median), and I have no desire to live in the Midwest after graduation (I'm from California and would like to return there). So while I might be able to bust my ass this summer and get an offer to return to THAT firm for 2L summer, I'm scared that all the California firms won't give me time of day, despite my work experience, simply because of my grades and school location.

Any advice? Other than obviously trying to improve my grades.

Well played...

Is getting a bachelors degree worth it these days? I mean, unless you graduate with a 3.9 and are the editor of your student newspaper youíre screwed!
Most of my friends who didnít have 3.9ís or edit the newspaper donít have jobs. They got degrees in English, Psychology, Biology, etc. and now they all owe $30-40K and have no job or even job offers. They were suckered in by admissions counselors who made up salary information like Ďyouíll make a million dollars more over the course of your life.í It was all a lie. Most of them have had to move back in with their parents!  Those of you who are thinking about going to a non-Ivy undergrad should really think twice. Unless your parents are paying for it, you are going take a lot of debt with virtually no chance at landing a meaningful job after graduation.
Think carefully before you commit to getting a non-Ivy bachelors degree. If you donít believe me checkout what the people at are saying.  YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Disclaimer: this is joke; I just think the parallels are kind of funny.     

Job Search / Re: Top of the class and rejected by every employer?
« on: February 14, 2009, 09:31:00 AM »
What kind of effort did you put into the 1L job search? I don't mean to be a male private part, but if the extent of your research as to where your school ranks nationally was reading an article in the local paper...I mean come on man. These things are going to take effort, even when you are talking about just trying to get in with one the better local firms as a 1L.

My experience...

My school (TTT in SEC) brought only 5 firms in for Spring OCI, which is pretty much solely for 1L hiring. Three of them are considered BigLaw for the state/region and two were among the top 3-4 firms in the local area of my school. The bigger firms were looking to take 2 1Ls from here and the others were just going to take one. That is 8 people that are getting a job from OCI!!

I sent out around 150 cover letter/resume packets in December and early January to firms in this and surrounding states. Even the firms I knew were coming here for OCI, just so they knew I was grinding it.

I also networked my ass off with every atty I know back in my hometown of Dallas and have traveled on my own dime to interview with a couple firms there and just take job prospect-less meetings with any others who would meet with me.

This is what it takes to give yourself a chance from a lower ranked (but well thought of in the state/region) school. The vast majority of my classmates did not come close to doing any of this either and are now freaking out. I just don't understand people who don't do the research and put in the effort to make things happen for them.

I'm only Top 30% at my school (1 yr of real world but non-legal work exp.) but I just got an offer at one of the two local firms that did OCI. I'm pretty sure I got it because I interviewed with them at their office for an hour the week before they came here for OCI after they responded to my mailed resume. Then they came for OCI and met with 25 kids for 20 minutes at a time. Since we have a grade req. to interview for OCI (which I narrowly qualify for) they met with lots of people with better grades than me. The difference? They did not take the initiative that I did and they only had 20 minutes to state their case.

I may get other offers or interview offers since this was the first OCI firm to make their decision, but I probably won't. I guess the point is, it took all that effort, hundreds of dollars on resume paper, envelopes and labels to just get one measly offer from one of the better local firms.I plan to raise my GPA a bit this Spring, bust my ass with this firm all summer to get as much experience as possible and hopefully be looking good for the 30-40 bigger regional firms that we bring in for Fall OCI.

My advice (and again, I'm just a 1L with a local paying 1L gig this summer so I'm not trying act like I know all)...

Just work as hard as you can to network, work in any legal capacity and keep your grades up until you get that 2L summer gig in your pocket. Then you can breathe a little and be proud of your hard work. But for people in yours and my situations...nothing is going to be handed to us even with top grades.

Wow, thanks, Stole Your Nose, for telling me that. I wasn't sure that I had the 1L position in a firm correct, and what you've said explains even more to me, then.

I don't think, and I didn't intend to come across as such, that because my grades were good, the "offers should be rolling in." Rather, I had at least assumed that my good grades would be sufficient to pique the interest of local firms, at least enough for an interview. Coming out of Louisiana, I know I have an at-least uphill battle in leaving the state, but I've thus far only applied to local firms.

I certainly don't intend to argue the ranking of my school relative to the nation's other Law schools. I read in a paper last semester that we had been ranked "in the top tier," so I took that at its word. If either of our sources were wrong, it really doesn't matter to me right now, when I'm only looking locally.

At this point, though, I guess I'm just tired of beating my head against the wall worrying about it. And perhaps that's a large purpose of 1L Spring OCIs; to teach you to handle failure when it seemed very likely you'd succeed. There are a few firms left this semester. If it doesn't work out, I'll do something else.

« on: February 12, 2009, 10:25:47 AM »
Ha ha...I love the conditions Freely...

I MIGHT be able to send you my outline as a favor, but you're better off figuring this stuff on your own.  What are you struggling with?  Future interests?  RAP?  Intellectual property?  Covenants and common interest communities?  Deed recording?

If you're willing to answer that question, fully, I may send you my outline, but no guarantees.

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