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Messages - MidWesternPleb

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: 2.98 gpa LSAT???
« on: January 08, 2009, 11:28:19 AM »
I'm a 1L at IU-Indy. 

I started my cycle in 11/07 but didn't apply to IU-Indy (my wife and I wanted an 'adventure', and we live in Indy, so I was concentrating on mostly T3 east and west coast schools).  Indy sent me an invitation with a fee waiver in late March of this year, so I figured what the heck.  They waitlisted and then accepted me a month or so later. 

Seriously, throw out alot of "reaches" if you can afford it, and if you're >156 on LSAT.  Write a kick-ass essay too.  A lot of people overlook it but for people like us with less than stellar GPA, it can truly be the deal maker.

B.A. or B.S.?  LOL - when do you have time to post on LSD what with all the apps you're reviewing at Yale?

Buckeye, the answer to your question is yes you should apply.  With a split like yours you'll likely fall in the maybe pile right off the bat (I said likely) - so your softs are going to matter A LOT.  Make yourself look as good as possible by playing up your softs on your resume and then write a kick-ass essay.

Also, you probably would know better than I if you're from Ohio, but the rumor is that Cleveland State has a pretty solid reputation in the area and even holds water over Capital, ONU, and Toledo in the Columbus area.  I would guess you'd be an auto-admit there.  It might be a good backup.

Good Luck!

P.S.  Instead of listening to macho man (and others on this forum), do yourself a favor and go to and peruse the firms in the markets you may be considering.  Keep an eye on where associates came from.  You'll be surprised at what you find.  But keep in mind these are the biggest firms in the market and you'll have to do very well and make connections no matter where you go to get a foot in those doors - by the same token, these are only a very small sampling of firms.  There are more  options in each market - many more depending on your networking skills.

Also - - search lawyers by school.

B.A. or B.S.?

B.S.: Retake because you're not a 152 if you can pull a 3.8 a math-based economics program.

B.A.: Don't retake and reconsider law. In the B.A. program it doesn't take massive amounts of brain cells to pull A's writing crap about how "Microfinance is totally good for justice, man." This major doesn't give me hope that your low score is anomalous--it won't give adcom's that hope either.

With a 152, the only way you're going to law school is if you go to a toilet and pay full price. To put it in terms that I hope you're able to understand: investing $140k+ in a bad legal education has negative expected future value.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: 2.98 gpa LSAT???
« on: January 07, 2009, 03:25:19 PM »
My GPA was <2.98 and I was able to get into a solid T2 with a 158 and an app at the deadline.  LS admissions is one of the most unpredictable games you'll ever play.  Give fall 09 a shot.  You literally have no idea what may happen.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: where should i go? 3.24 157
« on: January 07, 2009, 03:14:04 PM »
I'm a 1L at IU-Indy.  If you have any questions let me know.

Job Search / Re: Advice needed on a cover letter to a solid contact...
« on: January 07, 2009, 09:52:06 AM »
Thanks for the advice.  Yeah, absolutely not going to ask for a job. 

Job Search / Advice needed on a cover letter to a solid contact...
« on: January 07, 2009, 09:27:12 AM »
I have a great contact at a local firm.  Going to do the standard "want to get together and discuss your area of the law".  Thought I would approach it from a 'looking for advice" angle (which I am - a summer gig would be great though).  Has anyone crafted a letter like this?  If there is any advice out there, let me know.  I'm stuck on tone, mostly -  Formal, informal, email, regular mail, send a resume or hold off...

Job Search / Re: Summer abroad during 1L summer?
« on: January 07, 2009, 09:17:58 AM »
Echo.  A partner from a biglaw spoke at our orientation and cautioned against summers abroad unless you are specifically interested in international law.  He stated that he generally will discount resumes (absent EXTREMELY impressive academic credentials) without significant 1L summer legal experience. 

I'm not sure how it would be perceived though if you had a wealth of legal experience prior to entering law school.  Wish I would have presented that question to him.

If you want to be a firm lawyer, it would be better to have a firm job your 1L summer (and you'd wind up with an extra $30k+).  But most of the time the study abroad sign-up date is after most employers hire, so you could look at it as a back-up option.

I agree: use it as a back up. We have a summer program abroad, but a couple of my profs told me that it pretty much looks like you took a vacation instead of working your 1L summer. I'm sure some employers will see value in it though; especially given your interest in international law.

Current Law Students / Re: How To Respond To People Calling You a Gunner?
« on: January 06, 2009, 06:40:24 PM »

^ perhaps the greatest advice will come when you actually enter the halls of a law school. 0Ls have rarely been able to offer practical or (practicable) advice for actual law students.

Current Law Students / Re: How To Respond To People Calling You a Gunner?
« on: January 05, 2009, 07:11:10 PM »
Okay, after reading the comments about xman, consider most of this for the benefit of pre 1Ls or others who genuinely have this concern.

Number 6 is the golden rule.  My opinion is - steer clear of that and you're basically good.  I think whatever personality trait that results in a student breaking that particular rule has predetermined their fate in life anyway.  The other five are hit and miss.  For example I've seen students monopolize a great deal of class time by starting (and continuing) an extremely interesting line on point - and they weren't viewed as gunners at all.  Just ask yourself this:  Am I asking a question or making a comment because I'm engaged and well prepared or am I doing the same because I want everyone to know how smart I am.  If it's the latter, stop immediately and punch yourself square in the genitals.  And then apply to medical school. 

And no, if I felt like the perception of me was as a douchey know it all, then I wouldn't ignore it, I'd freaking stop being douchey.  My flip kindergarten remark was directed at your feeling that you need a "response" in the first place.  What, are they taunting you in the halls?  Posting "kick me" signs on your back?  If you've truly done some of the things that stole listed and you've done them obviously with the intention of showing off, then your response is to stop.  Just stop doing that and focus on coming from a good place.

But alas, I could have spared myself the last ten minutes and, like stole, quoted you back the following:

"distinguishing myself early and often and quickly was paramount"

If you're honestly seeking advice, stop seeking it, because there's no advice on earth capable of curing that.

Argh, typed out a long post.
Gist of it was:

1) Maybe your comments aren't as valuable as you think they are.  Take a step back and honestly re-evaluate how smart you are and how valuable your comments are.  Be your own critic and be honest.
2) Maybe other people are jealous because you actually are smart.  No matter. Making people feel at ease, complying with social norms, and being well-liked are all important in firm life and the law.  Work on those skills.
3) Set a limit for yourself.  (One comment per class.) If you find you have a hard time staying within that limit, ask yourself why. Is it because you are so engaged?  Or is it because you feel your insights are so brilliant that others should hear them? Or because you want affirmation or attention?
4) Don't answer the easy questions.  I get annoyed when obviously advanced people raise their hand for every question; easy or not.  Save your comments for complex questions that most engage you; leave easier questions for other people to build their confidence on.
5) Don't monopolize class time.  Everyone else is paying $30k a year too for law school, not just you.  If you find you just love to talk about the subject, form a study group or visit the professor after hours. Do additional reading in law review articles suggested in the book to engage the material more.
6) Don't answer a question "Correctly" right after another classmate took a stab and failed.  The person waiving their hand to immediately correct a "dumb" response looks like they're trying to pump themselves up at the expense of someone else. 

Current Law Students / Re: How To Respond To People Calling You a Gunner?
« on: January 05, 2009, 06:10:03 PM »
I never got the whole "gunner" thing.  I've read about it on all of the boards ever since I started my app process over two years ago and I still see it when I come back to these boards as a student.  Maybe I'm missing a nuance in the definition, but trust me - being perceived as a gunner because you participated in class - asking questions, answering questions, briefing cases, and so on is the LAST thing you need to worry about.  99% of the people who were consistent participants in my fall semester classes were generally looked upon as being insightful and/or gutsy if they took a chance and flamed. 

My advise is to just ignore them.  I can't believe you're actually having a problem with this.  Just to clarify, your "law school" isn't "kindergarten", right?  Do you mind if I ask where you go?

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