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Messages - jack24

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Law School Admissions / Re: Academic Excellence VS. Work Experience
« on: March 25, 2008, 02:23:04 PM »
You guys have seriously improved the quality of this thread. 
Do you think there is much of a chance that LSAC will change the LSAT anytime in the near future?
If they do change it, do you think schools would give even more consideration to the score?

Choosing the Right Law School / Thread for potential T2 Students
« on: March 25, 2008, 02:19:41 PM »
I love getting input from people who got 170+ on the LSAT, but to be honest, I'm hoping to get in contact with some people who are probably going to a school ranked between 51 and 100.

What have you heard about career options and job placement?
Are there some jobs that might be out of reach for us?
Is there really a big difference between T2 and T3?
Have you been accepted to T2s but rejected/waitlisted to some lower ranked schools?

So do you guys think the two clauses in the 2nd Amendment are indepenedent of each other then? 

The first recognizing a need for a militia and the second recognizing that the people have the right to own guns?

I honestly don't know.  The founders could have been more clear.
I just believe that the first clause relies on the second clause.  If individuals don't have the right to bear arms then a militia wouldn't have the right to bear arms.  A militia is regulated by the government, not armed by the government.

I also don't think that the government had a surplus of weapons at that time that could be distributed to militias when needed.  If the state needed to call in a militia, it would depend on individual gun ownership to do so.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: Is this Really the Case?
« on: March 25, 2008, 10:45:33 AM »
I got a scholarship offer from a T3 school that required students to be in the top 10% of the class in order to maintain the scholarship beyond the first year.
I talked to admissions and they said that only 1 one in 10 full tuition scholarship recipients that attend the school keep the scholarship into the second year.
Scholarships based on merit only have a 10% renewal rate, so wouldn't they have just as high of a scholarship renewal percentage if they just randomly assigned scholarships?

I would say that their grading is probably pretty random.

Law School Admissions / Re: Academic Excellence VS. Work Experience
« on: March 24, 2008, 05:24:17 PM »
I also heard that there is a lot of support to reform the LSAT.  It's possible that the test could be changed to in order to evaluate effectiveness in more areas than the current LSAT does. 
I'm sure there will be a lot of argument about how to best do that.

Law School Admissions / Re: Academic Excellence VS. Work Experience
« on: March 24, 2008, 04:26:53 PM »
Just a few things.

1: Law school committees may be better than I think, but I still think they need to get better.

2: Is there any good study that shows the relationship between LSAT/GPA and law school grades?

3: I don't deserve to go to a top 50 school no matter how good my soft factors are. I made my bed and now I need to sleep in it.  It might be interesting to do a study of T3 schools that aren't close to cracking the top 100.  Do they have a lot of examples of students with higher GPAs being rejected in favor of students with good soft factors?

4: I guess I misunderstood your point about the 25%.  Sorry.

5: My goal, in reality, is to go to the best school possible. It's probably even based on getting favorable treatment for myself over others.  My argument actually decreases fairness because it replaces objectivity with subjectivity.  I'm mad that I have to pay out of state tuition because I only have two law schools in my state and both of them have a strong focus on GPA.

That being said, fairness isn't really my concern.  I don't believe in an equal ending point, just an equal starting point.  I should have done better in school, but I didn't think I needed to at the time.   

Law School Admissions / Re: Academic Excellence VS. Work Experience
« on: March 24, 2008, 03:58:21 PM »
Yeah, but say my LSAT is 164 and my GPA is 3.0.
Lets also say I apply to a school with a median LSAT of 164 and a 25% GPA of 3.4
I might think that my personal statement, resume, and LORs are so good that the committee will accept me. 
If the committee rejects me based on my GPA and my soft factors don't make up for the low GPA then they should be able to do that faster than 3 or 4 months.
I got rejected on saturday to a school with a median GPA of 3.7.  Why in the world did it take 3 months?   

And let me answer your questions

1: What if the student was non traditional, and they got a 2.5 because they already had a job that they loved and they were going to school at night just to get a required degree.  If that student then decided to go to law school, GPA isn't really that accurate of an indication of their potential.  Their highest priority is work, so you should take that into more account than just a tiebreaker.  (Obviously this doesn't apply to people with a high priorities in partying and drinking)

2: The 25th percentile is confusing because you really don't know how low they'll go.  They should give you more information.  "If your GPA is lower than 3.0, you have relatively no chance of admission unless you are a URM"

3: I don't think this would work on the top 50 schools.  The applicants are all too competitive.  You are an exceptional student so you may not run with the same crowd as I do.  You do realize that 80% of test takers get worse than 160 on the LSAT right?  Law school admissions doesn't only affect the top students.

4: Job interviews are subjective.  By your reasoning, it would probably be better for Firms to hire based on grades alone, even after a few years out of school. I'm sure outside of new grads, firms use personality, potential and connections more than grades in their hiring.

Law School Admissions / Re: Academic Excellence VS. Work Experience
« on: March 24, 2008, 03:10:25 PM »
Lets say US news decided to remove the GPA LSAT portion of their rankings.
Schools would still use GPA and LSAT to determine the strength of their applicants.  Harvard would still get 10 time as many applications as the University of Montana, and the applicants to Harvard would be more competitive.  The schools with the best salaries at graduation and the best placement would still attract the brightest students.

But if an Ad-com found a student with a 2.5 GPA whom they regarded to be an amazing candidate, ranking would take a back seat.

If they felt like a particular candidate would be more successful in the real world then they could use some subjective reasoning.

Would it be fair if the 2.5 student were accepted ahead of a 3.6 student who was for some reason, unimpressive?  No.  But it wasn't fair when they had a swim meet outside the door of where I took the lsat, and they were using a jackhammer in the next room to tear up the floor.  I wouldn't have done any better, because the noise probably kept me awake, but I'm sure some die-hard library hermits were probably very distracted.

While I agree that numbers may be the most accurate in the bigger picture, I have to argue that it should be up to the particular admissions committee.  If they realized that the students who do the best in their particular environment were the students with a broad list of experiences then they could make judgements to select those students.

What specifically would you like them to be less secretive about?

As for "the better the school, the better off I am", that (it seems to me) has less to do with ad comms and more to do with, in some order, personal egos, actual job prospects, and message boards like this one.

Why do schools take so long to reject candidates?  If a school has a 90% chance of rejecting an applicant, they will still hesitate because they are too worried about their ranking.  If they don't get a good crop of applicants then they want to have back-ups.
You can say that a person wants to go to a particular school because of his ego, but I think it has a lot more to do with job placement.  Most people figure that higher ranked schools have more participating recruiters.  I don't want to get into my top 50 school so that I can brag about which school I went to, I want to go to that school because it's the only school located in the market I want to work in.  I probably won't get in because they are obsessed with getting higher GPAs.  And it will still take 4 months to reject me.

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