I'm a moderate about taxes.  I'm not proposing a fair tax, and I'm not proposing that we eliminate taxes on the rich.  (I do think that rich people are better at creating wealth than the government)
I just think liberals should stop complaining about the unfair tax burden when the upper half of income earners pay more than 96% of the taxes.


I think Elroy is an idiot who's obsessed with burritos.

Wow great argument, "You don't know what coercion means!"  Ya kidding me?  The government monopolizes violence within its political boundaries yes?  It requires you to pay taxes on your earnings and consumption, yes?  These are not coercive?  Please explain to me how the government runs ANY program without coercion.  What difference does a party affiliation make in this, you haven't brought a single decent argument to the table.  Of course there shouldn't be more taxes on cigarettes.  Why should the government decide for me whether I should smoke? Do you have a good reason besides, "It's bad for you?"  Or do you just follow the popular opinion of the day in making your decisions on what the government should force people to do?

We already force children to go to schoool (coercion) we force them to take gym classes (coercion).  Your great idea is to force more tax money to go to sports programs (still coercion, even if indirectly)? That will change a whole lot!  Congratulations, you both know the definition of coercion and how to use it completely ineffectively!

I'm excited that someone wants to argue.

You are using the term coercion a little loosely.  I guess you could say that the government uses it to get people to pay taxes, but I just don't think it's appropriate.

I'm not coerced to pay taxes, but I would be if I refused to.  I'm willing to pay taxes because I recognize that it is necessary.  I'm also allowed to vote for leaders that promise to lower taxes if I choose to do so.
Taxing junk food isn't coercion because nobody is forcing you to buy junk food.

Don't assume that I believe the government should make us lose weight.  I do believe that if my kids are going to be forced to take PE in grade school then they might as well take advantage of it.

I already said that I believe that individual responsibility is very important.
I don't believe the government should tell me what to do, but WE as a society need to do something about it.  WE are the government.

Do me a favor and answer these questions

Do you support an increase in funding for youth sports programs?
Do you support a tax on junk food?
Do you support creating tax incentives for people who are thin?
Should insurance companies be allowed to discriminate against fat people?
Do you believe that if children get fat, it's their own problem?

Maybe you should look up coercion in the dictionary.

Are you a liberatarian?  Do you believe smoking should carry the same tax rate as all other goods?
None of the options I put on the poll include any "coercion"

Increasing funding for youth sports programs isn't threatening, it's an INCENTIVE.
What if we mandated that students who go to government funded public schools have to exercise every morning?  What freedom would that take away?  We mandate that they have to take ART classes.

The question is the problem.  What should the Government do?  You assume the Gov't should or can do anything to alter what people eat.   Do people really lack the self-respect and responsibility to manage the minutia of their lives?  There’s a growing portion of this country who want to shield themselves from reality by passing the tough choices economically and morally on to the G-men.  Just stop.

I'm all about personal responsibility, but the consequences of obesity are not immediate, so many people procrastinate.

And apparently people do "really lack the self-respect and responsibility" to stop getting fat.  Why is america getting fatter?  What's causing the problem?
Is it inactivity, or the lack of motivation?  Or something else entirely?

Quote from: jack24 on April 02, 2008, 10:39:48 AM

Let me ask you another question.

What is the best pizza chain?

Round table.

Their pizza is delicious and when it makes it argument it attacks your points like an respectful human being, not your logic like a feminine hygiene product.

Okay, swear filter off.  Now once again.... what?