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Messages - jack24

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UGPA is almost useless.  Classes vary university to university and even within some universities.  GPA gives a general indication of your ability to learn and jump through hoops, but most schools don't have the tools and information necessary to properly evaluate GPA.

In addition to the differing difficulty of individual classes, everyone has different demands during school, and sometimes those demands are even different during law school.  For example, I worked 40-50 hours through my junior and senior year, but I didn't work at all during 1L or 2L.

Finally, most undergrad classes are very different law school classes, in my experience.  Not to mention the fact that law school is graded on a mandatory bell curve

Bar Exam Preparation / Re: Am I an unreasonable law student?
« on: September 14, 2012, 12:29:37 PM »
My husband thinks that I made an unreasonable selection for courses that I am taking now. I am just want to let him know reasonable law students' opinions regarding this issue. I would appreciate your opinions.

This is my last semester and will take the Feb bar.

I am currently taking, Remedies, Criminal Procedures, Wills and Trusts, 2 credit paper course, and 2credit clinical work.

It's fun to see all these old threads resurrected by SoCalLawGuy.

What is funny about this thread is that nobody pointed out how easy that schedule could be.  Seriously, that's probably an incredibly easy courseload.
Remedies could be hard, depending on the professor.  I'll give you that.  But it isn't a very large body of law.  You can easily master all of the factual content.
Crim Pro is one of the easiest courses, in terms of content you have to understand, in all of law school.  The issues are easy to spot and the cases are easy to understand.
Wills and trusts is pure study and memory. That's it.  The analytical work is relatively low.
2 Credit Paper?  Easy or hard, depending on what you make.
Clinical work can be a joke and can be tough.

You want a tough 3L schedule?  Take corporate income tax, securities regulation, commercial paper, banking law, construction law, anti trust, intellectual property, etc.  Those classes are moderately difficult even in the best of circumstances.

I'd say even Family Law is probably tougher (most of the time) than any class on that her schedule.

Current Law Students / Re: 2011 Employment Prospects worst in 18 Years
« on: September 13, 2012, 01:50:25 PM »
We live in difficult times and not everyone is lucky enough to find a job they would enjoy. Unemployment is high everywhere, not only in the law field.

This is a common argument, but I think it's terrible. The investment to legal education, particularly for T3 and T4 grads, is incredibly high.  The bad thing about law is that for some reason, that barrier to entry is not enough to deal with the oversupply of legal graduates.  Not only is unemployment high, but salaries are very low.
  So yes, while there are other fields which have poor prospects, their up front investment is not as significant.   Pharmacy, Optometry, Dental, M.D., MBA, CPA, and Medical assistant positions all have similar or lower investment costs with better prospects and equal or higher starting salaries.

Current Law Students / Re: Briefs
« on: September 11, 2012, 11:53:06 AM »
Canned briefs and outlines do deprive you of some valuable experience. Law school is designed to make you a superb researcher... if you don't hone your skills of extracting only the necessary information from cases, you will not be prepared for your career or even writing assignments later in law school.

I always preach that you should make all of your study material yourself. You aren't in law school to learn the law, but to learn how to extract it, interpret it, and apply it.

I forgot about this and I'm surprised I never responded.

No, you aren't in law school to learn how to extract the law, interpret the law, and apply the law, you are in law school to get a job.  The way to get a job is by getting good grades.  SOMETIMES, making all of your own stuff is incredibly inefficient and can cost you dearly.   To say "everyone should make all their own materials" is just as stupid as saying "nobody should ever make their own materials."
You have to figure out, as fast as you can, what works for you.

Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Is it worth it?
« on: September 06, 2012, 02:23:35 PM »
Yeah, but they graduated in 1979, 1983, and 1988.

They've all been practicing for more than 24 years, and not ONE is a partner.
Senior Counsel is not Partner.

This isn't to say Cooley sucks.  My point is that there is absolutely a stigma against cooley.  And if your top grads can't crack the biggest firms in Michigan, then the top Cooley grads are going for midlaw and smaller.
then why did you put (partner) next to their name?

Sorry, I meant to say "only ONE" is a partner.  My bad.  I fixed it.

Online Law Schools / Re: California Southern University School of Law
« on: September 06, 2012, 08:48:38 AM »
Please list any valid reasons for attending an online/distance law school.

Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Is it worth it?
« on: September 06, 2012, 08:45:59 AM »
Yeah, but they graduated in 1979, 1983, and 1988.

They've all been practicing for more than 24 years, and not only ONE is a partner.
Senior Counsel is not Partner.

This isn't to say Cooley sucks.  My point is that there is absolutely a stigma against cooley.  And if your top grads can't crack the biggest firms in Michigan, then the top Cooley grads are going for midlaw and smaller.


You know, undergrad all have the same GE requirement and then differ in upper dips. Are law schools the same thing? Do they have the same requirements for 1L and then different areas and number of electives later?

If the answer is no, what kind of 1L requirement will be the most beneficial for a law student in terms of passing the bar and practice as a lawyer later on?

Thank you!

Bar Prep courses will prepare you for the bar, so long as you have good study habits and a general understanding of how the law works.

Almost every law school requires the following in your first three semesters
Civil Procedure
Criminal Law/Procedure
Constitutional Law
Legal Writing

A massive portion of the bar, including all of the multiple choice, will be covered by the courses listed above.
In addition to those courses, most schools require some time of Ethics/Professional Responsibility course, which may or may not properly prepare you for the required MPRE. 
Some schools require Wills and Trusts and Business Organizations/Corporations

Law school is not closely related to the legal field, in my opinion.  However, some people may have more of a need for a particular course, like tax law, family law, wills and trusts, etc. 

I have never come across a law school that does not offer all of the bar exam tested courses.

The new york bar exam, for example, tests on the following subjects EVERY YEAR
Constitutional Law
Criminal Law/Procedure
Real Property

Then they test on the following, but not every subject is tested every year.

Business Relationships
Conflict of Laws
Constitutional Law of New York
Criminal Procedure
Family Law
New York and Federal Civil Jurisdiction and Procedure
Professional Responsibility
Trusts, Wills, and Estates
UCC Articles 2, 3, and 9.

Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Is it worth it?
« on: September 05, 2012, 05:09:10 PM »
The employment for graduating JDs is low and has been for sometime. As a student at TMCLS, I have seen many land good jobs and many unable to do so. This is similar for friends I have at other schools.

I do not think that someone will not hire you because you went to TMCLS, what will hinder them is how the students behave and how they present themselves that will hinder anyone from TMCLS in getting a job. When you admit the unadmitable on a regular basis, the interns you send into the field give most anyone a poor taste and lunacy that is the student body of Cooley. Students that appear to be nearly retarded, students that do not shower, students that try to sleep with anything that moves, students that turn checkers into chess at every opportunity, and students that, when asked, simply cannot answer basic legal questions. This is what gives Cooley a bad name.
Wow. The self rightous student who hates everyone and feels better than everyone student and/or staff, especially those having sex..........high school and undergrad must have been a treat for you.

OK, now that you've dealt with his post, respond to mine.  Given my example above, it is clear that Cooley is at a significant disadvantage compared to MSU, Michigan, and Wayne State.

Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Is it worth it?
« on: September 04, 2012, 10:09:52 AM »
I just hopped on

Why?  Because they have 220 attorneys and are based in Michigan.  The "Attorney" tab lets you sort by schools attended.

At that firm, four of 220 attorneys attended Cooley. 

Their graduation years
1983 (partner)
2009 (staff attorney)
1979 (senior counsel)
1988 (senior counsel).

I know that is a pretty big firm for Michigan, but it still provides some insight on the market.  Look at the gap in graduation years.

Now, I don't have time to add them all up (because it includes undergrad universities in the search), but I can tell you there are SUBSTANTIALLY more from Wayne State and Michigan State than cooley.

Finally, there are 10 people who graduate from the top ten from cooley every year.   Only one person who graduated from Cooley Law School in the last 26 years currently works at that firm.  The best students at cooley either didn't try to work at this firm or didn't get hired.

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