Law School Discussion

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Messages - jack24

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101
Law School Applications / Re: My chances
« on: August 15, 2012, 05:07:52 PM »
In my narrow experience, nobody really cares about your work experience unless it is directly related to the job you are applying for.  A law school may be impressed by novel achievements or by specialized schooling.

UNLV could be a different story if you worked for a former student turned big-wig or something.

102
I really think there is a lot of delusion at both ends.  Yes, people still get jobs and not everyone is screwed.  There are chicken littles out there who are going crazy.  But things aren't easy, particularly for lower-ranked grads.

 I was a top 1/4 at a school just outside the top 50.  I was a law review editor and moot court member.  I had two fantastic internships, one of which produced a ton of 1st chair experience, and I was networking and job hunting from 1L Christmas until I passed the bar.  I got my first full-time attorney job two days before I was sworn in as an attorney (Five months after graduation), and most of my income is based on bonuses.

In my experience, the legal field is absolutely brutal right now, and the available jobs for new associates are absolute crap.  I hustled for years and basically worked for free for four employers while I studied for the bar.  Hundreds of emails, months of networking, at least 50 applications for open positions, calling in every favor I had.   At the end of all that, I had two associate offers, and one came when a managing partner liked me a lot during a paralegal interview.

One state court clerkship in a medium market (salary = less than 40k/year) attracted well over 100 licensed attorney applicants. 100!  The guy who got it was ranked in the top ten students at a school in the top 40.

Anyone at the bottom half of their class or in the bottom half of law schools faces an incredibly brutal, up-hill battle for jobs with horrible starting salaries.

My advice to those licensed attorneys still looking for a job is to write emails to every attorney you can find and offer to do their crap drafting work for 40 bucks an hour on a contract basis.  Also, apply for paralegal jobs and then just start picking up attorney work as it becomes available in your firm.  They will love this because they can pay you less than 20 bucks an hour and bill you out at a low rate, but still tell your clients you are an attorney.

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Law School Applications / Re: My chances
« on: August 15, 2012, 01:46:27 PM »
I was wait listed at UNLV with a 160/3.3 and a four year full-time career.  The firm I work for has an office in Vegas.

Boyd has a lot of financial backing and they are on the rise.

Vegas is an interesting market though.  The are so many little firms and attorney jobs pop up on craigslist all the time.  There are also a lot of good jobs in the Carson City area as well.  I think you have a decent chance at Boyd if you kill the LSAT.  If your score is under 163 or so, you will probably need to refocus on lower ranked schools.

Keep the Southern Cali schools and Gonzaga in mind.  It also might not be a bad idea to look into some crappy eastern schools like Washburn, Akron, etc.  They have low tuition, easy in-state rules, and they offer a lot of good scholarships.

104
As far as the type of legal work, I want to be involved in civil litigation.  I wouldn't mind the hours or the stress involved in litigation.

I'm a litigator and I can tell you that not all litigation is created equal.  It's impossible to know how successful you can be in the future, but statistically you face an uphill battle for lawyer jobs at firms with 5+ attorneys.  I'm not saying it's impossible for you to get back into law school and have a great career at a successful firm, but it is more likely you'll have to work in a smaller office or open your own shop, at least at first.

If you want to be a litigator at a firm with 5-25 attorneys, for example, you should focus on networking with attorneys at those firms.  They will give you the best information and advice, if they are being honest, and they can put in a good word for you when you graduate.  I would do this before you decide on your paralegal question.  A great paralegal at a medium+ firm has a very different job description than an attorney at a medium+ firm.  Those jobs require different personalities and skill sets. (Some skills overlap, naturally).  If the partners like your personality, they may consider hiring you in spite of some difficulties you've had, but your skill as a paralegal won't put you above attorney candidates with significant skills and a better academic record.
However, a great paralegal who subsequently becomes an attorney may have a lot of the skills and experience necessary to thrive at a very small firm or open his own firm.

I really think the best thing you can do at this point is find a role model and see if you can take them to lunch.  Hopefully this person will be the lawyer you want to be in ten years.  You can get advice on your situation and get an idea for who the decision makers are and what they will be looking for from you.



105
Addressing this post as an honest request for help and not a humorless hoax, you haven't provided enough information for any reasoned advice...

1) Why were you dismissed? If it was an academic dismissal for poor grades, have you identified the source of the trouble and come up with a solution? If it was a disciplinary dismissal that would impact potential bar admission, that's an even more significant concern.

2) Why do you want to go back to law school? Is there a more affordable alternative that meets your goals? How committed are you to a career in the legal field?

Good questions.
I'd also add  3) What type of legal work do you believe you'd like to do (What type of employer, what practice area, and what kind of day to day work)

106
Transferring / Re: Transfer Options?
« on: August 13, 2012, 11:05:07 AM »
Oh, and the Jack 24 thing has been with me since I was first accepted to law school.  It may be linked to some psychological problems I have, but it's more likely due to the fact that 24 was awesome back then.

I could change it to Jack from lost... but then it might seem like I have daddy issues and I'm running from responsibility.

Maybe someone current is better?  Perhaps Michael from Burn Notice or Harvey from Suits?   

107
Transferring / Re: Transfer Options?
« on: August 13, 2012, 10:57:57 AM »
Sorry to spoil your day Jack, but there is actually a school that picked me up for the fall, as amazing as that is, and I fully admit it's kind of a shock. You see Jack, not everyone needs to be in some silly % of their class or on the LSAT to get a job as a lawyer, and nothing that happened in or before law school will matter to those of us with the ability to practice law, not just be super way cool neato law students... I have yet to see that pay anyone's rent. And some of us have lives outside of law school that require part time attendance, giving us credit hour per term issues. Law schools are pure evil and don't care, and I understand that, but I also understand that if I just get through the child advocacy job I have waiting for me will be worth it. Now, as I obviously don't need anymore advice from this site I'm going to leave you to your meaningless diatribe about %'s of this and %'s of that, and whatever other kicks you get out of having been on this site for 4 years-have a nice life Jack. The jack24 w/pick of Sutherland really screams little big man issues by the way, which of course will make you a perfect weasel lawyer at some firm somewhere. Do yourself a favor someday jack/24, have sex with a stripper, get in a bar fight, do something besides be such a damn weasel all your life. I feel sorry for men like you.

Wow.  I'm sorry to have insulted you so.

Most of the points you make are valid.  I can understand where you are coming from.  But the legal field is absolutely brutal.  Employers, due to their inability to effectively investigate candidates, depend largely on schools to weed out candidates. 

Jobs are just so tough to come by.  A state court in my area had a staff attorney opening.  The position paid under 45k a year, and they received over 120 applications from licensed attorneys.

I work as a "weasely" lawyer now, but it was tough to get here.  I was in the top quarter at a t2.  I was on the boards of law review and moot court, and I had great summer jobs during law school.     I sent out far more than 500 emails and 100 letters.  I applied for more than 100 open positions.  Through two years of networking and toiling I got three job offers.

I know for a fact that almost all legal employers only interview people they know and people who have an impressive resume.

So while I can understand why you would be upset at me, I still believe it is best for you, based on your prior performance, to fight like you have an uphill battle ahead.  You should keep that in mind as you decide whether to spend more time and money pursuing this particular goal. 

The legal field is tough, and it is full of countless lawyers who ended up in jobs they didn't want.

108

Where are you a Prof at? In law or another field?

I'm a lawyer right now, but I'm teaching some state college classes at night.  I'm teaching political science this semester and business law next semester.  I don't know why, but I don't really want students calling me "Mr. _____" or using my first name. 

109
someone with j.d. but without ph.d, for chrissakes.  no one dispute whether someone with ph.d properly called doctor.

in land of blind, one-eyed person do all work.

Law school professors who have JD's and no Ph.D don't call themselves doctor, but I never had a professor in another discipline who held a J.D..

I think I'll just have students call me by my first name or professor if they feel the need for formality.
You guys miss the point, I am saying that the Prof for BarBri(Kaplan owned) BarPrep that they teach at law schools via recording (the one with the PhD which I mention only to stree he is educated) tells that it would be a wrong answer on an MPRE question to say it is ok to advertise that your attorneys are all "Juris Doctors" since ethics boards expect you to use the "idiot standard" where if even an idiot would fall for it, you can't do it. That is what I was trying to tell you.

Not saying BarBri can't be wrong, but it's what their JD/PhD Prof has on tape going to law schools across the nation.

Sorry if I missed the point, but my response was merely in reference to my question about what to have my students call me.
But it makes sense that the ethical rules would cut against using the term Doctor in any ads.

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Transferring / Re: Transfer Options?
« on: August 10, 2012, 02:30:55 PM »
If you look through my posts you'll see I'm not a troll.

Generally speaking, the answer to your question is no.  There are not any ABA accredited schools that would take your transfer application.  However, in an effort to be helpful, I'd like to know why your past performance is anomalous and not direct evidence of what to expect in the future.

On paper, you are someone who scored at around the 40th percentile on the LSAT.  You are likely somewhere in the bottom quarter of your law school class, and you fell below the minimum credit-hours per term.  Usually, that means you received incompletes or Fs in a class or two.

With the adversity you face, I think it's folly to continue in law school UNLESS you have some clear and concrete career path.   Care to share your career ambitions?

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