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Messages - Veil

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Current Law Students / Re: In the current downturn in the legal market
« on: September 15, 2008, 09:43:08 PM »
I'd be careful with assuming that the 10% of 2009 students who wound up not getting offers were the ones who "didn't have the legal reasoning ability or writing ability to do all those damn memos":

a) Social faux pas;

b) Many firms give their summers busy work/work that does not require any (or much) legal reasoning or writing ability;

c) The economy has proven to be reason enough to no offer/cold offer those that don't have folks with sway to vouch for them, regardless of their work product or social skills;

d) The economy has proven to be reason enough to whip out a list of summer associates, close one's eyes and point to the 10% of the class who will not receive offers.

Job Search / Re: Sidley....Help
« on: September 11, 2008, 05:26:06 AM »
I agree that the hours will be the same...but with one caveat. Your hours at most large firms ("large" being defined here as any firm on the vault 100, however inaccurate that may be) will depend upon what practice group you join within the firm. Unfortunately, you'll likely get a good sense of how busy practice groups are, or intend to be in the future, only after you accept a firm's offer.

If you have the oppty to pick the brain of anyone who knows "inside information" regarding any of the firms you are considering, you should take it. Feel free to PM me if you don't mind disclosing the other firms you are considering and I may be able to chime in as well.

Good luck.

I'm assuming that the OCI interviews you received required you to submit a transcript sometime earlier in the summer. If this is the case, most firms you interview with at callbacks will not ask you for a new transcript, but some will. Those that ask for an updated transcript will do so at your callback interview, prior to offering you a summer position.

I have not heard of someone losing a permanent offer from one bad grade...

Job Search / Re: Skipping OCI, will this hurt me?
« on: August 22, 2008, 04:51:19 PM »
Clarify a bit for us here:

1. You missed OCI at your school or at the T20?
2. What kind of firm is the firm that you are interested in? I know you said "top BigLaw" but do you mean a branch office, main office, etc.? How many summers do these firms typically have?

Send out your resume explaining things ASAP. Missing OCI for BigLaw hiring is ill advised since many of the firms have very stringent hiring schedules. Furthermore, because many of these firms get mail bombed with resumes each recruiting season, many recruiting teams at firms only have the time to very briefly flip through resumes, trashing those that don't show great GPAs or great pedigrees straight off the bat.  Its certainly still early enough in the game that you didn't "screw yourself," but I would get on things fast. I have a friend who basically did the same exact thing and got squeezed out of many of the firms she was looking at and would have been a shoe-in for. She waited until the end of Sept. to send out her resumes though, which was the big kicker..Good luck!

Current Law Students / Re: SA Offer Status?
« on: August 22, 2008, 04:37:02 PM »

I'm sorry to hear it, I wish you the best during 3L OCI/mass mailing.

Do you mind being more specific about your circumstances for those 2Ls interviewing right now? Cold offer or no offer (I know you said "no offer" in your original post)? Market? Firm size? This is the kind of information that I didn't have much of as a 2L but wanted to know...

Current Law Students / Re: 3L OCI Prediction
« on: August 08, 2008, 08:16:26 PM »
Thankfully, I got an offer from the firm I was at this summer. I created this post because I had completely forgotten about signing up for 3L OCI until I was notified by email that my "results" were up today. Needless to say, when I saw those results it was pretty scary to think what would have happened had I not received my offer this summer.

I agree that cold offers are a big sham, but it IS supposed to be a win/win sham for the parties directly involved. The ones who lose are the law students looking for accurate information about a firm's hiring practices. From what I understand, getting a flat out no-offer is a horrible hit to your chances of getting a job at another firm.

Current Law Students / 3L OCI Prediction
« on: August 08, 2008, 05:12:20 PM »
I'm stating the obvious here...but I predict 3L OCI will be a disaster this year.

Did anyone else's school send out a class wide email during the summer pushing for all 2Ls to sign up for 3L OCI due to the economy? For peace of mind, I did, and got back my results today....absolutely horrendous. I believe I bid on every single entity that is attending OCI at my school (30 or something like that) and I only got one OCI interview with a government agency. For the sake of context, I'm top third of a T25.

Hopefully the predictions about all the cold offers coming out of this summer will be way off the mark. Or was my experience just particularly unusual? Maybe I had some huge, glaring typo on my resume...that would be keen.

Job Search / Re: OCI: Is there any rhyme or reason?
« on: August 08, 2008, 05:04:37 PM »
Things also depend on your schools OCI system. Is it a pure lottery system? Pure employer choice system? A mix of both? How many interview slots does X firm do at your school? What office of X firm are you looking at? Those aspects certainly come into play...

Current Law Students / Re: SA Offer Status?
« on: August 05, 2008, 04:42:02 PM »
Recently received my permanent offer and am very happy/excited/thankful, you name it.

Just to give some context for those who want to know: I spent my summer associateship in a major market at a large (250+) office of a national firm. This firm historically gives permanent offers (cold or otherwise, I'm just going by NALP) to the vast majority of its summer associates. From what I understand, the firm did not over hire for this summer.

Good luck guys!

Job Search / Re: Headquarter office vs. secondary
« on: July 23, 2008, 04:30:24 PM »
I'll weigh in...with the catch-all answer of "it depends." Namely, it depends on what practice area you're interested in (if any) and what kind of "exit opportunities" you hope to have after x years.

I don't know much about A&P, but if you have no preference between transactional and lit and have no idea as to what kind of exit opportunities you hope to have in the future, I would aim for a firm that would give you broad exposure to a number of practice groups. Some secondary offices of full service firms tend to specialize in certain practice areas, and they therefore present limited opportunities for a summer associate or young attorney.

Both Simpson and A&P are strong firms and any perceived prestige difference between the two would likely come down to practice group. Thus, you are likely better off being in Firm X's top flight Tax group over Firm Y's mediocre Antitrust group, even if Firm Y is more highly ranked overall on Vault.

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