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Messages - Coregram

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Online Law Schools / Re: 'Distance Learning' = TTT trickery
« on: January 11, 2005, 05:24:10 PM »
This month has really made me reconsider my options.

As a low-income individual, I am very concerned about the cost of law school. The nearest law schools are a two to three hour drive from where I live, and at this time there is eight inches of snow on the ground. I also have personal responsibilities which would be difficult or impossible to 'pack up' and take with me at this time if I would choose to relocate.

For example, Cooley is not highly regarded by the students which post on this board. But Cooley has a program which would allow a student to be at home (or work) during the week and attend law school only on the weekends.

John Marshall--Chicago is expensive, but has some excellent courses which aren't offered at all of the other law schools.

IU Law School--Indianapolis/Bloomington is much less expensive, but requires a better undergrad GPA and LSAT score.

The other law schools for my consideration are Kent--Chicago, Valpo, Notre Dame, U. of Illinois, and U of Chicago.

Of course, I have some time to think about it, and my circumstances might change for the better by the time that I have to decide, but I have just added distance learning law schools to my list of options.

I do not know if you are aware of this, but if you attend an ABA accredited law school, you are entitled to a yearly loan of $18.5k of which $8.5 is subsidized by the federal government.  There is no questions regarding credit history.  Additionally, numerous schools give need based grants and scholarships, even to law students.  How do I know this?  My housemate is really really poor and somehow he got a %25k scholarship/yr and I got no scholarship even though I had much much much better qualifications than him.

I believe the loan program you are referring to are Stafford Loans.  They are available to anyone going at least half-time in any degree or certificate program; ABA accreditation isn't required (my non ABA accredited school offers them; you can also research them on line.)  That's not to say all schools may offer them, but ABA accreditation isn't a requirement. 

The annual $8.5K subsidized portion is need based ( you have to qualify) and the interest is deferred; the govt. pays it while you are in school, you pay it after.  You can also get the annual $10K unsubsidized portion where you pay (or the interest accrues on your balance) while you are in school. 

Online Law Schools / Re: Accreditation v. S.C Approval
« on: January 11, 2005, 05:13:18 PM »
I live in Mass. but I'm not aware of any distance learning (DL) law schools here.  There are 2 state accredited but not ABA accredited schools here; Mass. School of Law, where I go, and SE Mass. School of Law, which is merging into the UMass system with the intention of getting accredited in the future (they were denied accreditation several years ago.)

Of course, the ABA accredited schools in Boston (especially Suffolk and New England) are fighting the UMass tooth and nail; they certainly don't want an accredited public (lower tuition) alternative available.

Online Law Schools / Re: Concord Law School
« on: January 11, 2005, 05:08:00 PM »
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                                          AT
TUESDAY, JUNE 27, 1995                             (202) 616-2771
                                               TDD (202) 514-1888


     WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The Department of Justice and the
American Bar Association today resolved charges that the ABA
process for accrediting law schools had been misused to inflate
faculty salaries and benefits.
     The Antitrust Division filed a civil lawsuit and settlement
in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., alleging that the ABA
used its power as the law school accrediting agency to protect
law faculties' economic interests and working conditions.
      Anne K. Bingaman, Assistant Attorney General in charge of
the Antitrust Division, said, "The ABA's accreditation process
required that universities raise salaries to artificially-inflated levels,
and meet other costly accreditation requirements
that had little to do with the quality of the legal education
they provided.  The settlement reached today stops this
anticompetitive conduct."
     Under today's proposed settlement, the ABA would be
prohibited from:
     * Fixing faculty salaries;
     * Refusing to accredit schools simply because they are
for-profit; and
     * Refusing to allow ABA-approved law schools to accept
credits for classes at schools that are state-accredited but not
     The settlement also:
     *  Establishes a special committee to determine if ABA
accreditation requirements in six other areas should be revised--
student to faculty ratios, teaching loads, sabbaticals, bar
preparation courses, facilities, and other resources.
     *  Opens up the ABA accreditation process so that it is no
longer controlled by legal faculty who benefit from requiring
better pay and working conditions.
     "The powerful status of the ABA does not insulate it from
the antitrust laws," said Bingaman.  "The Antitrust Division has
sued many professional trade associations, which, like the ABA,
have violated the antitrust laws.  Lawyers must keep their own
house in order as well."
     The complaint charges that the ABA's accreditation process
had the effect of pressuring law schools to raise salaries to the
national or regional median.  The Department said by pressuring
schools to pay the median salary, the ABA kept raising the target
that schools had to meet.
     About 90 percent of the ABA's Section of Legal Education
members are law faculty.  The section is responsible for the law
school accreditation program, which has operated without adequate
oversight.  The complaint alleges that the lack of oversight has
led to abuses in the accreditation process, leading to an undue
focus on guild concerns rather than quality education.
     Through the process established by the consent decree, the
ABA will work in the months ahead to revise its accreditation
standards to address the problems identified in the government's
complaint.  Bingaman said, "We are pleased that the ABA has acted
promptly and responsibly to address these issues, so that its
important role in accrediting the nation's law schools can be
performed appropriately and effectively."
     The ABA, which is headquartered in Chicago, is the world's
largest professional association for lawyers.  There are
currently 177 ABA-approved law schools.
     To become effective, the consent decree must be approved by
the court following a 60-day comment period as required by the
Antitrust Procedures and Penalties Act.  If the consent decree is
approved by the court, it will settle the suit.

Job Search / Re: How to address cover letters
« on: January 05, 2005, 02:45:46 PM »
On the envelope and in the heading, I would use Mr./Ms. John/Jane Doe, not John/Jane Doe.

I wouldn't use Dear John Doe either.  Either use Dear Mr. Doe if you don't know him, or Dear John if you do know them well on a personal basis (or are dumping him :) .)

Also, not all lawyers use Esq., so I would only use it if you knew they use it.  You could try calling their office and asking the receptionist the proper job title and if they are an atty. and use esq.

Current Law Students / Re: NEW 1L
« on: January 04, 2005, 05:41:33 PM »
You'll be fine; don't worry about what other people majored in.  There are plenty of technical backgrounds doing well in law school.  In fact, an engineering background can be very attractive in the area of patent law (which is lucrative as well.)

As for prepping, try a few of the the "how to law school" books to get a flavor for law school.  Most have similar advice (except Planet Law School II, which comes at the law school system in a more negative way - not to discourage you but in a "buyer beware" tone manner.)  Also, if you want to prep for some specific classes, the Examples and Explanations series of books are a good start; reasonable easy to read and hypothetical problems for each chapter.  And for some "true story" reading about some cases, you could try "A Civil Action" for litigation, "Gideon's Trumpet" for constitutional issues, and "The Bretheren" for the inner workings of the Supreme Court.

As for outlining, look at others as examples but do your own once you get to school.  It is your personal tool for learning and applying the law; make it as detailed or summarized as you need it to be for each area.  And you customize it for what your professors teach.

Current Law Students / Re: LEEWS
« on: January 04, 2005, 05:26:28 PM »
I've finished the primer in preparation for my contracts exam on Monday. 

I can boil down what I learned into a few sentences, but I may have missed something.

1) Start with the definition of the law
2) No matter what the questions are the profs only want one thing.  for you to discuss the issues involved in the hypo.
3) Write an outline yourself that is concise.  It should consist of things that trigger memories of the fuller definitions and concepts.

There are some more things, but that says it for me.  I don't think I needed to spend 145.00 to find that out.

I think you have missed some of the main points.  Look at Chapters 4 and 6 again.

The main point of the LEEWS approach is to set-up the conflict pairs (including the inferred parties) and indentify the "premises" that each side in the pair would use to advance their case.  Your outline helps you identify the premises.  That is the key to issue spotting.  Then you move into what the law is and applying it to the facts.

Everyone will tell you to spot issues in an exam.  But LEEWS actually gives you an approach as to how to spot them in a much easier to understand manner than "Getting to Maybe"

Current Law Students / Re: Arrested in school
« on: December 28, 2004, 06:43:51 AM »
Check the application and/or the instructions for it.  Some of them specifically state you have to provide the school with written updates on any information (such as arrests) requested on the application or they may revoke any acceptance.  Or try calling the school and asking.

You might need to send them an explanation similar to an addendum you would have written had the arrest occurred before you submitted the application.  You will need a good explanation, given you knew you wanted to go to law school and be a lawyer and yet the incident still happened recently.  The "I was young, immature, and didn't realize the consequences" type of explantion probably won't work now. 

Chances are the school won't find out on their own, but it's better to be upfront with them now then have them find out later that you didn't disclose it.  Disclosing it may not keep you out, but being caught hidding it probably will.

Current Law Students / Re: Please help me find this case
« on: December 18, 2004, 05:45:43 AM »
Me neither; between working, studying, and going to bed to sleep and laying there trying to sleep but my outlines running through my head, sleep has been on short suppply (though I did sleep great last night.)

At least I can come here for a few minutes of diversion every few hours.   :D

Current Law Students / Re: Should I buy new or used books???
« on: December 18, 2004, 05:41:37 AM »
They key is not depending on the markings already there; they might help guide you but you need to actively learn the material yourself.  It's the same as buying someone else's outline.

The issue isn't that the person owning the book before you is not intelligent.  But they may find some concepts easier to learn then you do; so they didn't mark up the book much on those concepts.  Or they may have struggled with issues you find easy, so there are alot of markings you need to ignore (or not spend much time with.)  And if they had a different professor then you did, there may be issues marked up in the book you don't either cover or issues you cover not marked at all in the book.

Their markings maybe a good start, but they are only a start.  You can't rely too much on them.  You need to customize the book, used or new, for your own learning.

Current Law Students / Re: Should I buy new or used books???
« on: December 17, 2004, 07:23:11 PM »
If you want to "book brief" yourself, you really need a pretty clean book; used or new.  Otherwise, you won't have room in the margins for your notes.

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