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Messages - cisforcookie

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General Board / Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« on: February 09, 2008, 05:55:30 PM »
See, I get that people diss undergrad grades. as a technical major, which puts me in the vast minority (especially for non-ip people), I worked hard for Bs in my major and didn't have to try to get As in softer courses. so I get that the curves are totally screwed up. what I don't get is why law schools have to grade on a curve that arbitrarily concludes that 20-75 percent of the class are inferior. Having more than a little knowledge of statistics under my belt, I would fully expect that the highly competitive entrance process at these schools would result in tightly packed groups of students in the middle, with a few outliers. Very few people, even are yale, are going to set themselves apart with their brilliance. At the same time, I'm sure that most people in law school aren't incompetent fools.

The whole "if you can't cut it" attitude presumes on its face that anyone who wasn't at the top of their class couldn't cut it. And yet, I have never heard a single person tell me that they thought law school grades were remotely acceptable as indicators of a person's talent or work ethic. Instead, we hear a thousand voices screaming about how utterly arbitrary and idiotic the whole process is. It's simply absurd.

General Board / Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« on: February 09, 2008, 05:27:24 PM »
Umm.. URM's and well connected people would still mean that people in the bottom 20% are getting jobs which is ridiculous.

it may be ridiculously uncharacteristic of legal hiring, but I have never entirely understood why someone who got good to amazing grades as an undergrad, then tested really well on an iq test (sortof), then ended up at the bottom of a curve at a top graduate program would suddenly be sh!t out of luck getting a good job. This is all part of my confusion about legal hiring though, and thus the concerns that inspired this thread in the first place.

General Board / Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« on: February 08, 2008, 10:06:14 PM »
that's not that bad though. it took me a few months to find a good job in my field when I graduated college, but I had a few interviews every month, and I knew it was just a matter of time. what is distressing is reading about people who graduate, pass the bar, and can't even get interviewed. that's the only thing I worry about.

part of me thinks that this is a symptom of people going through college and law school without ever having any meaningful employment experience at all. I say this as someone who took classes during summer breaks in college to fit in degree requirements, and it was definitely a hindrance not to have work references after graduation. at least I got that hurdle well out of the way.

General Board / Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« on: February 08, 2008, 08:03:48 PM »
I have heard, so this is very anecdotal, that most people who don't go to judicial clerkships or biglaw will graduate without employment because mid-size firms and government agencies don't like to hire people before they've passed the bar. Doesn't seem entirely unreasonable.

General Board / Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« on: February 08, 2008, 04:59:30 PM »
Whoah, calm down there. My sarcasm was a bit too thinly veiled I see. I know a number of prosecutors, public defenders, and those who have left both offices. They all seemed like normal, happy people who liked their jobs. Crim law is a lifestyle that isn't suited for some people. That's ok. I feel sorry for people who are working any job just because they think it's good resume fodder.

General Board / Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« on: February 08, 2008, 04:46:24 PM »
I remember watching a case once where the defense lawyer basically kept saying to the witness. "So you're an alcoholic right? were you drunk at the time? are you sure you weren't? Would you remember if you weren't? how well do you remember things when you're drunk?"

Maybe they should model law and order on that style of questioning.

I think that might have been the funniest cross I ever watched. The guy was found guilty, btw.

General Board / Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« on: February 08, 2008, 04:41:14 PM »
see, I would argue that actual criminal practice is a lot like Law & Order, except if everyone was alot less eloquent and honest, and if 98 percent of the cases plead out, and if nothing particularly epic ever happened. so not at all like l&o, but still very satisfying to some people.

General Board / Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« on: February 08, 2008, 01:55:14 PM »
I am a 0L, but I figured the students board would be a better place to ask about jobs. I have several friends at top14 schools, but I am still pending at the ones i applied to, and I am operating under the assumption that I won't be getting in. Pleasantly, I still got a pile of cash from UIUC, Minn, and WUSTL, because I can't see myself paying full price at anywhere outside the very top. I think I will do very well, but I am trying to get a handle on the risks if I don't. I have a good job as an analyst, but the work doesn't challenge or interest me, so I thought I'd try being a criminal attorney. Now I find myself wondering whether I would be better to stay put and try another line of work. Maybe finance.

General Board / Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« on: February 08, 2008, 12:47:37 PM »
Interesting. My notion of satisfactory employment has relatively little to do with pay scale and everything to do with interesting work with interesting people. A DA or PD office in a respectable location seems just fine to me. I won't be coming out of law school with any debt, so my situation may be uncommon. But if I wanted to get a firm job at some kind of mid-size firm in my region, that's entirely attainable?

General Board / irrational paranoia at top schools?
« on: February 08, 2008, 11:59:57 AM »
I feel as though all the blogs and posts about people from t2, 3, 4 schools who can't even get interviews are poisoning my expectations for law school. I find myself suffering a lot of anxiety that I will have difficulty securing satisfactory employment as a lawyer even from a top25 school.

Is this common? Is this rational? On the off chance that it happens, is bottom half at texas or vandy or wustl or minnesota a one-way ticket to a lifetime of doc review? I'm sure that it isn't, but what does happen?

Everyone seems to talk about the upside, about getting top 1/3 and being set for biglaw out of oci, etc, but what's the downside? Any students at very good but not elite schools have any experience with what happens to those people who just don't distinguish themselves?


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