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Messages - Kasserole

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General Off-Topic Board / Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« on: November 10, 2008, 03:29:48 PM »
I guess Obama is the only democrat talking about 'listening' to people who disagree with him.

[/quote]

Jeff, I think there have been a number of posts by democrats/liberals who have been willing to listen to both sides of the argument.  I have pointed out that I do not believe that most of the proponents of Proposition 8 are hateful.  So I do not think it is fair of you to make such hasty generalizations.  

Even though people in favor of Prop 8 might have religious justifications for supporting a law, I do not believe that is sufficient grounds for enacting discriminatory state laws.  I understand that a lot of people feel the way they do because of their religious beliefs, but I think that religious beliefs have moved people to do wrong things in the past.  It is because of this that I believe that no discriminatory law should be passed solely on the bases of religious justification.  I understand if the Mormon Church does not want to marry gay couples in their institutions, but I do not believe that religious belief should interfere with the civil institution of marriage offered by the state.

I think Non Parata's point was that you are doing exactly what you have been criticizing others for doing.  You have been accusing opponents of Prop 8 of rioting and committing acts of violence when in fact a great majority of opponents have been arguing against it in a very civil manner.  Just as I am sure all Proponents of Proposition 8 do not want to be associates with some extremist like behavior advocated by a subset of the group, it isn't fair to associate all opponents of proposition 8 with a few instances of unbecoming actions. 

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General Off-Topic Board / Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« on: November 07, 2008, 07:26:59 PM »
I am happy to hear that, but that is a common argument from the other side, so I felt I should address it once pointed out.  Thanks  :)

But that's why the "choice" argument can be a very valid one.  There's been significant research on this lately, and the world has gotten much closer to saying "born in", but nothing is definite.  And, then, the counter argument you posited doesn't count for much.  Your retort shifts the issue, and there is nearly universal agreement that humans are conscious actors and so are able to pick and choose their actions.  And sometimes, humans pick decisions for themselves even when they know there will be fall-out from the decision because they "want to." 

I have yet to see a legitimate argument saying that gay people are not born gay.  That premise needs as much justification as the premise that they are born gay. 

Also, people who say that homosexuals are not born homosexuals imply that they are deviants from what is "natural," but if we are naturally born heterosexuals, then that implies we are born with a sexual identity.  So who is to say what another person's sexual identity is?

A well nuanced position would not agree with the bolded.

Well then, if neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality is natural, and both are chosen, then the question still remains why the law should favor one over the other.

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General Off-Topic Board / Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« on: November 07, 2008, 07:17:26 PM »
I am happy to hear that, but that is a common argument from the other side, so I felt I should address it once pointed out.  Thanks  :)

But that's why the "choice" argument can be a very valid one.  There's been significant research on this lately, and the world has gotten much closer to saying "born in", but nothing is definite.  And, then, the counter argument you posited doesn't count for much.  Your retort shifts the issue, and there is nearly universal agreement that humans are conscious actors and so are able to pick and choose their actions.  And sometimes, humans pick decisions for themselves even when they know there will be fall-out from the decision because they "want to." 

I have yet to see a legitimate argument saying that gay people are not born gay.  That premise needs as much justification as the premise that they are born gay. 

Also, people who say that homosexuals are not born homosexuals imply that they are deviants from what is "natural," but if we are naturally born heterosexuals, then that implies we are born with a sexual identity.  So who is to say what another person's sexual identity is?

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General Off-Topic Board / Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« on: November 07, 2008, 06:58:01 PM »
they were born different than the majority. 

Maybe you need to work on convincing a larger number people that this is true.

wise

First of all, I think that is it is absurd to think that someone would choose to be a homosexual given how difficult it is to be one in our society.  One of my best friends in college was gay, but he pretended to be straight.  He felt he could no longer live a lie and tried to kill himself.  Thankfully he wasn't successful and we were all able to tell him that we accepted him as he was.  This was at one of the most liberal colleges in California. 

Secondly, discrimination is discrimination, regardless of whether gay people are born gay.

It is my understanding that both hoo and I agree with you.

I am happy to hear that, but that is a common argument from the other side, so I felt I should address it once pointed out.  Thanks  :)

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General Off-Topic Board / Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« on: November 07, 2008, 06:47:57 PM »
they were born different than the majority. 

Maybe you need to work on convincing a larger number people that this is true.

wise

First of all, I think that is it is absurd to think that someone would choose to be a homosexual given how difficult it is to be one in our society.  One of my best friends in college was gay, but he pretended to be straight.  He felt he could no longer live a lie and tried to kill himself.  Thankfully he wasn't successful and we were all able to tell him that we accepted him as he was.  This was at one of the most liberal colleges in California. 

Secondly, discrimination is discrimination, regardless of whether gay people are born gay.

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General Off-Topic Board / Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« on: November 07, 2008, 06:05:21 PM »
Although the term marriage may have religious roots, it is now a state institution.  As a state institution, it should not discriminate against a subset of society because they were born different than the majority.  I believe hatred is a strong word.  I know of a lot of people who voted in favor of Prop 8, and I do not believe their actions were intentionally malicious.  I do, however, believe that supporting the proposition is discriminatory.  You cannot say that you believe gay people are your equal, yet their participation in the insitution of marriage somehow degrades the value of heterosexual marriages.  Although some people want to confer the same rights to homosexual couples without calling it marriage, the separate term implies a certain perception of superiority.  I see this problem very similar to the problem of segregation.  The feeling that two groups need to be separate to "protect" one group creates a "badge of inferiority" for the minority group.  Although a simple majority of voters voted in favor of the Proposition, it has been my opinion that the rights of the majority should be protected from the rash will of the majority.  That is the purpose of the constitution.  The California Supreme Court saw it that way, but the people of California felt it was necessary to change our Constitution to single out a minority group.  So when people get upset, they have some justification.  Furthermore, I do not think it is fair to use such generalizations.  There are so many opponents of Proposition 8 who are challenging the passage of the law in appropriate manners.  The end of slavery, segregation, and the fight for other civil rights have all met with opposition before their end goals were achieved.  Just because Prop 8 passed this time does not mean it will always pass. 

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Anyone?

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Personal Statement / In what tense should I write my personal statement?
« on: August 27, 2008, 12:47:58 PM »
I am telling a story about something that happened to me to make me want to pursue a specific field of law.  Since the story was from the past, I used the past tense throughout not wanting to change to present tense in the middle of the essay.  Is this correct?

Thank you.

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Law School Applications / Re: Undergrad W's
« on: July 31, 2008, 07:47:39 PM »
They do not average it into your UGPA as calculated by LSAC , but it does show up on your LSDAS Academic Summary Report.

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Studying for the LSAT / Re: Reading Comprehension Advice Plz!
« on: July 30, 2008, 02:13:08 PM »
The above is really good advice.  If this does not work, however, you might want to give law school a second consideration.  Law school is almost all reading and writing.  That is why the LSAT tests your RC abilities. 

Good luck though!

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