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Messages - epicac

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11
They don't tell you the retention rates b/c most people don't retain them.  You do realize that its a B- curve at NYLS?  50% have to get above and 50% have to get below.  If you're anywhere in the middle of the class, you're screwed b/c you can get dropped up to 2 letter grades.  And don't think you'll be immune b/c just ONE class will mess up your gpa.  I graduated in 2007 and I only know ONE person who was able to keep their scholarship.

Well.. so far, so good.  There have been rumblings that they put all scholarship winners in the same section.  I tried to ignore the hype and just work harder than ever before.  And it paid off, thanks to a little luck   :)  Hopefully I can do just as well this semester and be one of the fortunate few that retain it.

12
It's probably water under the bridge at this point, but I just wanted to point out that I was waitlisted at BLS and ended up with an offer of admission and nearly a full ride a few days after I submitted a LOCI.  I think they do this as yield protection for high-index and unusual candidates.

Interesting.  Nearly a full ride?  Although I have highly unusual credentials and excuses, my index/numbers were still on the weak end of their standards.  Either way, I swung by NYLS this past week and got a great feeling about the place and the new building, and the neighborhood too.  Are you thinking BLS now?

13
I received a scholarship and guaranteed in-state at Rutgers-Newark, which places well in the NJ/NYC area, and cost-wise and reputation-wise, I am most comfortable with Rutgers.  I was down to Temple and Rutgers with scholarships, I like the idea of attending a large, well-known, well-established public school, and I also like the diversity of Rutgers. Have you researched some of the firms in NYC and where their lawyers attended school?  It helps to give you an idea of where they are pulling from.  What are the scholarship retention req's at the other school?  NYLS req's are pretty stringent.  We all assume we are going to work our hardest and do well, but it is still an unknown and unpredictable factor.  Really what matters is that you are comfortable with the decision and the amount/quality of research you have done into your options and costs.  I wish you all the best!

Thanks for the kind words.  If Rutgers had offered me in-state, I'd have taken it in a heartbeat.  As for job prospects, a firm in NYC is obviously my #1 choice, but having a highly technical background fit for patent law as well as connections back home in St. Louis make for two good fallback options.  I think when a person has a safety net, they should take a few risks  ;D  - who knows.  Thanks again, and it sounds like you'll do great at Rutgers on the cheap!

14
You have an 85% chance of losing your scholarship.  Okay you knew that already but NYLS gives out a lot of money in the first year to attract students, because their sticker price is so ridiculous.  Are you comfortable with the possibility of the different cost scenarios if your scholarship decreases or gets lost in the following 2 years?   Do you have any other options in the NY area?

Believe it or not, I'm fully prepared for the one and done scholarship.  SJU offered me $12500/yr and Seton Hall offered $10,000/yr.. NYLS blew those offers out of the water.  The idea that the NYLS "sticker price is ridiculous" is a myth.  Cardozo, SJU, SH and Brooklyn are a couple thousand dollars per year less (NYU and Columbia are comparable), and NYLS guarantees tuition at a fixed dollar number for all 3 years.

So lets say that SJU costs 40K and it goes up to 42K and 44K... that's 126K in tuition.  I get 37500 if I do pretty well, not top of the class, but still well.  that's $88K in tuition.  At BEST.  At NYLS, the tuition is roughly 42K.. that means that the tuition for all 3 years (again, guaranteed at that price) ends up the same as at SJU.. 126K.  Now I will get 30K automatically, that's guaranteed.  So the MOST I'll be paying in tuition at NYLS is 96K.  Yes, that's more than at SJU, but if I do decent at NYLS I would still get a little knocked off.  If I do incredibly well (unlikely), then I will get 90K over 3 years, and pay 36K in tuition.  Though not likely, it's possible I could pay over 50K less to attend NYLS.

So what am I risking?  The name/rank difference between SJU and NYLS, which some say is huge, and others say is minimal at best.  But the payoff could be big.  Calculated risk, I figure.

I understand that most have more options, but due to unusual circumstances, NYLS is my best bet.  I didn't get into 'Dozo, which bummed me out, and Brooklyn waitlisted me (i.e. no money either way).  I like to think that I've really thought this out and that it makes sense.. so let me know if off my rocker  ;)

I just checked LSN and it looks like you have the same offer from NYLS, which makes sense - as we're close in numbers.  Are you leaning any way?  You haven't updated in 2 mos, I'm curious :-\

Either way, thanks for the input, it always helps!

15
I would take the bet if I were compensated for the correlation between LSAT/GPA and law school performance, which, of course, supports your point that law school success is not entirely random in the aggregate. I do not disagree with that. Since we agree that on an individual basis success cannot be predicted, there is nothing more to do but wish you good luck.

Thanks, I appreciate it. 8)

16

This type of logic bothers me, as an engineer by trade.  Sorry to nitpick, but you'd only have 10% chance if the class rank was determined randomly (i.e. not due to any other factors).  I'm not saying that everyone who predicts to be in the top 10% will be, or even have a better chance to be.  But just that the statement is factually incorrect, because the class rank is determined through factors such as hard work and test taking ability in addition to the obvious luck.

You are missing the meta-point. While you are correct that other factors go into law school success, it is impossible to predict who will utilize those factors most optimally. For example, if 10 people enter law school X with scores in a similar range (as is the case with the majority of students at a given school), each student has an equal chance at each spot between 1st and 10th. Although post hoc, factors such as hard work and test taking ability serve to explain the outcome, predicting how those factors stack up among students prior to their respective performances is incredibly unlikely. Hence, class rank is random and only appears predicable after the fact. Accordingly, each individual has a 10% chance of being in the top 10%.

I agree with your main point.  There is no predicting who will be in the top 10% with total accuracy.  I am not saying that I accurately could pick 10% of people in a class that would be the top 10%.

Think of it this way - someone offers you a bet.  They say that they have picked 10% of a 1L class, based on LSAT and GPA, betting on several of the students to be in the top 10%.  They inform you that you can have a random list of students.  10% of the class, randomly selected.  They say that you win if your group does better, they win if theirs perform better.

Would you take the bet?

If you say no, then you are essentially agreeing with me that the top 10% of a class isn't entirely random.  Make sense?  Oh and you are also correct that on an individual basis, success can't be predicted.  I agree with that.  That's why I'm planning on 60 hour weeks my first year, I know I can't just fall into the top of the class. ;)

17
Remember that you have a 10% chance of being in the top 10%. Do not bank on it.

This type of logic bothers me, as an engineer by trade.  Sorry to nitpick, but you'd only have 10% chance if the class rank was determined randomly (i.e. not due to any other factors).  I'm not saying that everyone who predicts to be in the top 10% will be, or even have a better chance to be.  But just that the statement is factually incorrect, because the class rank is determined through factors such as hard work and test taking ability in addition to the obvious luck.

18
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Any opinions on NYLS?
« on: April 17, 2008, 11:19:48 AM »
The dean saying that he doesn't care about the rankings is just an excuse.  I bet if NYLS was ranked higher, he'll say the total opposite.

I'd be inclined to agree with you..... except NYLS was the only school to give me more than projected on LSN.  Which means that they took soft factors into account, something that USNWR doesn't. 

If you're curious as to my soft factors, I have some serious medical issues that I developed in college, and I have a degree in Biomedical Engineering (sub 3.0 GPA, but 4.0 in anything non-science).  So maybe I'm an exception, who knows.

19
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Any opinions on NYLS?
« on: April 17, 2008, 11:10:44 AM »
other options?

I'm perplexed by NYLS. They were originally a spin-off from Columbia...and yet schools like cardozo, st johns, and brooklyn, relatively newer schools, are considered better than it. On the other hand, it could also be argued that T2 and T3 and interchangable.

I've heard this... that outside of T1 in NYC, it's all about contacts in the city.  It could be bogus, but I can understand it because it happens here in Missouri.  UMKC places as well as Mizzou in KC.  That's why I'm looking at volunteering options in NYC.. and there are a lot  ;D

20
sorry, i wasn't clear about the $$$ issue... it's 30g a year & automatic law review as a 2L, which is a pretty big draw also.  wouldn't having that on a resume (even out of nyls) look better than being a run of the mill temple grad? (which im assuming i would be based on no scholarship offer and being really average in both the gpa/lsat bracket). 

Did you send the check in?  I sent mine in.. and I have to admit, the new building is what pushed me over the edge.  Having a law school in a place where you want to get out of bed is a good thing.  On the other hand, I've heard Philly, especially where Temple is, isn't in the best place in the city.

I guess what I'm saying is... I think it comes down to how much you like NYC.

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