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Messages - epicac

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11
I would take the bet if I were compensated for the correlation between LSAT/GPA and law school performance, which, of course, supports your point that law school success is not entirely random in the aggregate. I do not disagree with that. Since we agree that on an individual basis success cannot be predicted, there is nothing more to do but wish you good luck.

Thanks, I appreciate it. 8)

12

This type of logic bothers me, as an engineer by trade.  Sorry to nitpick, but you'd only have 10% chance if the class rank was determined randomly (i.e. not due to any other factors).  I'm not saying that everyone who predicts to be in the top 10% will be, or even have a better chance to be.  But just that the statement is factually incorrect, because the class rank is determined through factors such as hard work and test taking ability in addition to the obvious luck.

You are missing the meta-point. While you are correct that other factors go into law school success, it is impossible to predict who will utilize those factors most optimally. For example, if 10 people enter law school X with scores in a similar range (as is the case with the majority of students at a given school), each student has an equal chance at each spot between 1st and 10th. Although post hoc, factors such as hard work and test taking ability serve to explain the outcome, predicting how those factors stack up among students prior to their respective performances is incredibly unlikely. Hence, class rank is random and only appears predicable after the fact. Accordingly, each individual has a 10% chance of being in the top 10%.

I agree with your main point.  There is no predicting who will be in the top 10% with total accuracy.  I am not saying that I accurately could pick 10% of people in a class that would be the top 10%.

Think of it this way - someone offers you a bet.  They say that they have picked 10% of a 1L class, based on LSAT and GPA, betting on several of the students to be in the top 10%.  They inform you that you can have a random list of students.  10% of the class, randomly selected.  They say that you win if your group does better, they win if theirs perform better.

Would you take the bet?

If you say no, then you are essentially agreeing with me that the top 10% of a class isn't entirely random.  Make sense?  Oh and you are also correct that on an individual basis, success can't be predicted.  I agree with that.  That's why I'm planning on 60 hour weeks my first year, I know I can't just fall into the top of the class. ;)

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Remember that you have a 10% chance of being in the top 10%. Do not bank on it.

This type of logic bothers me, as an engineer by trade.  Sorry to nitpick, but you'd only have 10% chance if the class rank was determined randomly (i.e. not due to any other factors).  I'm not saying that everyone who predicts to be in the top 10% will be, or even have a better chance to be.  But just that the statement is factually incorrect, because the class rank is determined through factors such as hard work and test taking ability in addition to the obvious luck.

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Any opinions on NYLS?
« on: April 17, 2008, 09:19:48 AM »
The dean saying that he doesn't care about the rankings is just an excuse.  I bet if NYLS was ranked higher, he'll say the total opposite.

I'd be inclined to agree with you..... except NYLS was the only school to give me more than projected on LSN.  Which means that they took soft factors into account, something that USNWR doesn't. 

If you're curious as to my soft factors, I have some serious medical issues that I developed in college, and I have a degree in Biomedical Engineering (sub 3.0 GPA, but 4.0 in anything non-science).  So maybe I'm an exception, who knows.

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Any opinions on NYLS?
« on: April 17, 2008, 09:10:44 AM »
other options?

I'm perplexed by NYLS. They were originally a spin-off from Columbia...and yet schools like cardozo, st johns, and brooklyn, relatively newer schools, are considered better than it. On the other hand, it could also be argued that T2 and T3 and interchangable.

I've heard this... that outside of T1 in NYC, it's all about contacts in the city.  It could be bogus, but I can understand it because it happens here in Missouri.  UMKC places as well as Mizzou in KC.  That's why I'm looking at volunteering options in NYC.. and there are a lot  ;D

16
sorry, i wasn't clear about the $$$ issue... it's 30g a year & automatic law review as a 2L, which is a pretty big draw also.  wouldn't having that on a resume (even out of nyls) look better than being a run of the mill temple grad? (which im assuming i would be based on no scholarship offer and being really average in both the gpa/lsat bracket). 

Did you send the check in?  I sent mine in.. and I have to admit, the new building is what pushed me over the edge.  Having a law school in a place where you want to get out of bed is a good thing.  On the other hand, I've heard Philly, especially where Temple is, isn't in the best place in the city.

I guess what I'm saying is... I think it comes down to how much you like NYC.

17
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: New York Law School or Syracuse?
« on: April 17, 2008, 08:52:17 AM »
I graduated from NYLS 7 years ago in the heart of its disaster years and I can tell you that all students from the Law Review top of the class to the bottom HATED the school.  I was offered a full scholarship to Seton Hall and turned it down for a smaller scholarship to go to law school in Manhattan and NYLS at the time had a higher ranking .... HUGE MISTAKE!

The professors taught very poorly, a lot of professors with personality issues and inferiority complexes, incompetent suck ups who couldn't teach and forced a political agenda got promotions, you had to beg school administration to get credit for a legitimate internship ... it was awful

The first year the bar pass rate crashed along with the school's ranking... the school actually had the audacity to blame the students....   I had friends in that years graduating class who were very smart people and had actually been accepted at higher ranked schools but chose NYLS for larger scholarships were livid... The worked hard in school and studied very hard for the bar and got no where because of NYLS' failure to teach properly and they just couldn't believe that the school had the nerve to blame them.

What is worse is that NYLS NEVER regained its prior standing and made absolutely no effort to do so... If NYLS had kept its ranking today it would be in the top 100 which is what many firms require.... For those of us who chose the school due to its ranking at the time we felled ripped off.  Sort of like paying for a Lexis and getting a beaten up, used lemon...Well when I enrolled at NYLS it was in the top 100.... NOT TRUE ANYMORE and there is no way to explain that to potential employers especially when you are in a pool with hundreds of other applicants who don't have to explain their law school....


If your LSATs are high enough try Brooklyn... I wish I had applied there... I thought that going to Brooklyn I wouldn't make the same contacts as Manhattan.  Not True... I found out that Brooklyn Law students love their school and graduates actively recruit from their to many good firms... If you can get in I strongly recommend Brooklyn Law.


Have you been back there lately?  Something tells me that the new facilities will have a ripple effect- better professors, better students.  It seems to me that 90% of the complaints about the school revolve around the old building.

18
As said before by a million others, assume this will be a one-year scholarship only and decide accordingly.

they are being willfully ignorant (if not deceitful) about information that is likely to reflect poorly on them.

in light of what I've heard from someone who recently graduated from NYLS

Thanks for the blunt honesty... I was thinking the exact same thing, taking it as non-renewable.  There are still many factors (new building, next to gf's work, their isection program) pushing me to NYLS that even if the scholarship is just one year, I still will be attending.

As for ignorant of the numbers, I imagine that's a common practice in this USNWR-driven business.  Any other insights from the recent grad?  Vault seems to indicate that it's not as bad as its ranking, and that the new building will give it a boost since the old facilities are rank.

Thanks again. :)


19
I sent a question to NYLS this morning about their scholarship retention rates, since my scholarship has unusually high requirements - top 15% to renew.  I was told they do not have the numbers.

Is it surprising that they don't have these statistics?  Wouldn't they have them on record in the financial aid office?  I asked in a follow-up email if the school has them, but the advisor didn't, or if they just weren't compiled anywhere.  I was told succinctly that no, the school does not compile them.

In more reassuring news, he assured me that they do not throw all the scholarship recipients in one section, which was my initial fear. I'd read that some schools do this, which I think is just cruel.

Also, I know I can expect a couple TTT comments, so at least keep them clever!   ;)

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Choosing the Right Law School / ...
« on: April 08, 2008, 11:29:45 AM »
*moved to the financial aid board, sorry...

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